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Finished our Wheel of Time S1 rewatch yesterday with 1.08!

I kept meaning to make posts about stuff from different episodes, but, edf.

Some stuff from this episode:

So I totally knew that I had very poor memory of this episode - during season 2 was very aware that I did not remember like, the actual final confrontation - aside from the image of the - opponent.

I think I more or less remembered that there was the trollock attack on Fal Dara (but not details), Rand's ~temptation thing, as noted the image of the opponent, the image of Padan Fain on the throne and that he got the horn, and the sister and the other women with the magic against the trollocks outside Fall Dara and burning out, and I think I did remember that one of our characters there heals the other (I think I have a memory of *reading* that?). And of course from S2 knew what happened to Moiraine though didn't have memory of it happening.

Oh right and that there was flashback 3000 years back and who it was between, though didn't have memory of what episode that was in.

Oh and remembered that Rand asked Moiraine to tell everyone he died there, I think I remembered that rather than just knowing from season 2 stuff.

Some stuff having rewatched:

-Ok so that story Moiraine told of her backstory makes me really curious who that Aes Sedai was. Are we going to meet her? (Have we already). Also wow more Aes Sedai stuff like that.

-Rand: you thought it was Egwene. Me, thinking: well she did have a very rare item specifically for male channelers for you!

-I was also very expecting Moiraine to tell him that she can't teach him to channel because teaching channeling is side-restricted, but she didn't.

-Trying to understand stuff that happened with the knowledge that this is Ishamael and not the Dark One and not completely sure of some stuff.

-So - ok, with the knowledge we get later, what exactly did happen here? Including with the ~temptation? I'm not sure. What are we supposed to think of various things? (Like, it seems like they well, were gotten the better of, so.)

-(I continue to be unhappy about the stuff I was unhappy about first time around).

-So the first time around I probably didn't register it because didn't know them so well yet etc, but ok so in the scene with Padan Fain those are the characters we later see pursuing him in S2, and of course Loial is important, and here they seem to have *been killed* - so we spent the rest of the episode waiting to see how that got addressed, I was trying to remember, and then it just didn't?

-...Did Rand realize Moiraine well, with the knife? He has the marks.

-Brain is thinking about defense ideas for the Gap apparently.

-Ok so Padan Fain maybe has a different perspective on the Dark also/We hear another one.

-Amusingly I totally didn't remember whether or not Lan comes with them and whether or not he then somehow follows them, so was like, finding out just like if I hadn't seen it.

-When the flashback started I was like, right this - ok I totally don't remember at all what in fact happened/was talked about in this convo. And yep I didn't and ok wow that was important! (I have questions.) Also I'm pretty sure last time I *also* registered she called him Dragon *Reborn* and had questions, and this time registering it again and continue to have questions. (Not quite the questions one might think I have maybe, here).

-Noting some stuff about the outside the window scene.

-So want to think more about what can be filled in as having happened between seasons, but thinking about it - ok how was communication between Siuan and Moiraine supposed to have gone there? Like, didn't remember before, but, this plan came from Siuan and Moiraine's conversation, it seems like Siuan would have wanted, well, a report? And we know Moiraine didn't tell her about not being able to access the source, but - again, what is meant to have happened?

-So I was thinking as things were happening, so is the ~idea that Moiraine doesn't die ~because she is blocked from touching the source and that is metaphorically properly counted as such a thing. But just now occurred to me wait, in fact this *was not the Dragon meeting the Dark One at the Eye*. ...Did anyone else think about this?

-By the way, why is this called the Eye of the World?

-Right, I'd forgotten the connection between the prison and the Blight!

-(Have probably forgotten something still.)

-Eta: oh right was looking forward to seeing the Seanchan arrival now that I know more stuff about them, and indeed! Noticing that the sul'dam and damane have a few aesthetic differences I think.

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What happened to Ryma? I don't think I saw her either at the power testing or the final battle. Given the timing, she might have still been in that 'initial training/breaking' phase we saw for Egwene, so she wouldn't have been brought out?

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Also we got the intro/credits again, I love the intro, I missed it!

(I saw the Sony and whatever presents thing and was a bit ...? and then it kept on and I knew we were getting the intro!)

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So assuming here Lanfear's plan went something like,

Betray Ishamael to his death.

Throw the rest of the Forsaken in the ocean.

Figure Rand will have enough feelings to not put her in a seal again and hang around trying to seduce him.

(If so this is really funny.)

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I really want to know if Ishamael is going to be back. (Don't tell me!)

(On one hand I'd generally think yes because he's important and because the coming back would be like - a world thing (and it would affect him). On the other hand it feels like the kind of thing where show would consider it impact reduction?)

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so my current best understanding/theory is that the Horn calls whatever of the Heroes of the Horn are currently dead.

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I love how they set up showing us that link between death and the collar dropping off, so when we see the collar drop off we know.

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The thing I really love about Egwene’s victory is that apart from figuring out the thing, the thing she won by was - like Renna said, she’s still her damane. She feels twice the pain. But she has been in that pain and been in it and been in it. (The pain and the other thing both). And Renna hasn’t ever felt it.

(And they show this so well, we see her she’s enduring it as she does what she does and we just got reminded and we know this is what she’s doing.)

(-And Renna knows that Egwene doesn’t have to stop if she gives in, and she know if she gives in Egwene can kill her which otherwise she can. But she does anyway because she can’t stand it).

(Also I love that Egwene’s defiance, which she did without any reason to think she’d be saved from the results, is very likely the reason she and Renna specifically survived, because they were at the center away from the walls.)

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Holy shit that entrance.

Also brilliant use of ‘actually there’s more’ after what looked like a close.

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Holy shit that reveal (re darkfriend).

Also *really* wondering if when telling people about the one party to the conversation the teller also told them about the other party

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huh, there aren’t that many works on AO3 for the book series (1 - 20 of 1,585 Works in Wheel of Time - Robert Jordan. Show is 1 - 20 of 928 Works in The Wheel of Time (TV)). (Not reading them but I was curious!) Is this a ‘fandom predates ao3, most works are elsewhere’ thing?

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coe-lilium “Usually, it would involve either straight up killing him or undermine his plans to ruin his standing with the Dark One and thus get herself on top of the Chosen/Forsaken hierarchy”

coe-lilium “Basically replace him as the right hand of their boss”

daughter-heir “this will be explained more later on but basically the Forsaken are competing with each other to be the Dark One’s specialist little servant. The Darkfriends are doing the same to an extent which we saw with Liandrin and Suroth- they work against each other and try to tear the others down for higher standing”

@coe-lilium @daughter-heir ahh! Thank you much, that makes sense now/I see now! And this helps me understand the other thing actually too I think! Thank you!

So I have a larger/more general confusion re Darkfriend stuff that I hope to maybe make a post about, but this is basically a separate thing, so -

thing I am confused about: what is the Ishamael-Lanfear betrayal conversation talking about?

What would her betraying him involve doing/mean?? Like, she could betray him to the not-Dark, but I’m pretty sure that’s not what they’re talking about also I feel like this wouldn’t work because no one would believe her.

But what other options are there?? What would betraying him consist of??

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Was wondering before and still wondering - how does some of the Forsaken being men interact with the situation with male channelers?

Some options I can think of

Because they serve the dark they are immune to the corruption thing/the dark one has it not affect them.

Serving the dark already counts as relevantly affected.

They themselves have some way around it? (Don’t think it’s this one).

I was thinking it can’t be that they predate it because so did Lews and company etc, but come to think, if they were sealed away before it happened maybe that could do it?

Actually they’re totally going to be affected (don’t think it’s this one either).

eta: managed to forget part of what I wanted to write, which is that some of these of interesting implications for other male channelers.

Further notes:

-I remembered when thinking about this that when Ishamael was releasing Lanfear his power didn’t have the blackness thing I think?

-I noticed when Lanfear was I think healing herself her power looked actually totally black? Making me wonder if she’s somehow using a corrupted version?

(Guessing this will be gone into at some point given how important the male channelers thing is.)

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Thinking about the wheel maybe bringing Rand back if he dies/having brought him back 3000 years later this time makes me think - so it definitely seems like the wheel doing things like this has to do with things that are happening - so the wheel bringing Rand back around is related to other stuff that’s going on ‘right now’.

Which gives me the weird wondering of - so is the wheel ~all-knowing in this sense, or is it relying on some kind of if-then condition satisfying detection? In other words, could you potentially hack the wheel by making it ‘look like’ certain things were happening when they weren’t.

(I’m guessing not, but that sounds like a very interesting concept.)

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Another thought I’m finding fascinating is the idea of [a verse like this and then] [its] Rand’s next life. Like - was thinking, if Rand does get killed or die, probably the wheel would bring him back right away? And just, that as a situation, someone born into the war being ongoing, because their past life died, with whatever everyone is doing and trying to do without them. People looking for them.

-Could even have multiple lives that way, maybe different people finding them.

(I’m sure someone has written this, because someone has written everything in this ~trope set up, but just, thinking about it.)

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au that would be fun: if somehow times etc did some different lining/not lining up and Rand *did* go to Warder training to try to become Egwene’s Warder, and then stuff happened.

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Can’t wait to find out how the Seanchan deal with/handle male channelers…