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Not here to argue that point. Not an anti-zionist, I promise. I'm not Jewish so to my understanding that means I can't be either anyway.

The point I want to come in here to make, OP, is that it depends on what you were doing when you were called islamophobic. Because there's genuine criticism of genuinely bad actors of a demographic as a conversation, and then there's using the existence of bad actors in a demographic to cudgel the entire lot of them, which is where the claim of bigotry becomes fully valid.

If I want to criticise Netanyahu and the IDF for legitimately fucked up things they are doing, I have to be very, VERY careful that I am ONLY criticising actual fucked up things they are doing, because that can descend into antisemitism really damn fast, especially as a non-Jewish person. Am I actually criticising doing horrific things to children as a legitimate criticism of an actual war crime, or am I using the existence of that war crime to paint Jewish people as child killers? The distinction is obvious to Jewish people who are personally affected by that bigotry, but not so much to me as a goy. Where is the line? Have I actually walked it properly, or did I fall a long time ago into the muck of Jew hatred using the fucked up actions of bad actors who happen to be Jewish to descend into ever worsening antisemitic rage?

At what point does criticism of genuinely fucked up actions of people who happen to be Muslim become an indictment against the entire faith and most common racial demographic? I know Muslims who would never in a million years even consider doing what Hamas is and are still Muslim and don't believe I should be converted or killed. Part of that is due to the fact Islam is not one religion but a whole collection of different branches with different values, same as Judaism and same as Christianity, because no group is a monolith. I was taught by Jewish people (not JVP; actual Jewish people, I promise) that there are many branches of Zionism and Kahanist Zionism is the extremist section Netanyahu and his right wing government are following. This does NOT make Zionism an inherently bad thing. So if I do want to criticise Kahanist Zionists for actual fucked up shit they are doing, I'm not off to a great start if I'm flinging the word 'Zionist' around the way the western right wing flings around the word 'woke' to mean anything they don't like.

Should people listen when they are told that the way they are criticising bad actions by bad actors who happen to be of a demographic is fundamentally bigoted and they need to re-evaluate what they're criticising and change how they do it to be having a conversation rather than wrapping legitimate points around a bigoted shut-the-fuck-up cudgel?

Yes.

Does this also apply to people criticising Islam and Muslims, since they are human and no human demographic or belief system are a monolith?

Yes.

The likelihood that you've never been islamophobic while criticising legitimate problems in Islam is at absolute zero. You've been raised on the same planet with the same biases as the rest of us. If people call you islamophobic, maybe take a closer look and try to fish out what they're picking up on, clean up your criticism to be legitimate and untainted with bias, and then try again. You won't get it right the first time, but you'll be doing a better job than "If you call me islamophobic ever for criticising Islam and Muslims, I'm just going to shut you up with some good old what-aboutism, instead of considering the fact I'm human and sometimes there will be legitimate criticisms of me I should take a look at which don't negate legitimate criticisms I have of others - no matter what bad faith actors cudgelling me are saying - but which still need to be addressed."

People should listen when Jews talk about antisemitism in criticisms about anything Jewish related. It doesn't mean we can't criticise, because a world where you can slap a bigot label on anything that breathes criticism of actual shit you're doing is not a world I think any of us want to live in. But there's criticism and there's bigotry and they are actually very frequently intertwined rather than exclusively existing separately from each other. And when Jewish people say 'antizionism is antisemitism' and goy just turn around and always say "we're perfect actually; you just can't handle being criticised and are playing the Jew card to escape accountability" that's pretty fucked, right?

Same applies to Islam and Muslims. Sometimes, just as people are often being antisemitic disguised in legitimate criticisms to make their antisemitism more 'acceptable,' there are just as many people being islamophobic just as often disguised in legitimate criticisms to make their islamophobia more 'acceptable.'

And when you add serious pain and suffering and other experiences of bigotry to the mix, it becomes even more potent and difficult to distinguish legitimate criticism from growing radicalisation.

And when people use THAT as an excuse to not listen to YOU, it only gets worse and worse. And yeah, we're all doing it. Because we live in society, not a vacuum, and we're human and shit hurts and it's so much easier to slap 'evil' on an entire demographic (like how westerners are misusing Zionist against Jewish people) than it is to do the complicated and tiring work of separating bad actors from an entire demographic and legitimate criticism from silently building bigotry.

(See past posts tagged cudgel vs conversation for more angles on this.)

Remind me that next time someone calls me "islamophobic" for criticizing Islam and Muslims to call them "Judeophobic" for criticizing Judaism and Zionism

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😂

i would trust weird al with my drink at a party. granted he may put one of those capsules that expands into a sponge animal in it,

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Choice 1: Complete fascist takeover of your entire country, with increasing systemic attacks on every marginalised group within it and a rapidly closing window to do anything about it the way you could have done before handing the fascists more power than they already had. Palestinian ethnic cleansing now guaranteed because Trump and Netanyahu adore each other and Trump wants to help him destroy Palestine entirely. Congratulations, the war crimes are now somehow worse AND you've fucked over every group in your own country as well.

Choice 2: Don't pick the fascists, and get a lukewarm government in power with people at the lower levels who have more backbone doing more to support their communities and states, intercepting bigotry and improving things for states that maybe aren't yours and groups that maybe aren't you so maybe it looks like things aren't getting better, but they are, and since you insist people should care about things outside of their own personal lives - good values! I agree! - you are consistent in your convictions instead of hypocritical and choose to celebrate the wins even when you don't personally always benefit from them, and continue the pressure for more change since you're not equipped to take on the entire American military with just ideological rage alone and you understand that making things better over time is more productive than dragging innocent people into a war you categorically cannot win if you take it out of the political and legal sectors and into the streets with molotov cocktails actually. Palestinians are still facing fucked up war crimes, but the American government is at least trying to look like they support a two state solution (which the majority of Palestinians polled said they wanted) and an end to the violence, meaning NOT throwing their full support behind Netanyahu.

Whether you put track in the word genocide for what is happening or not, it is very clear that the Democrats' lukewarm wishy washy will they won't they support-but-not-entirely for Netanyahu would have been better for Palestinians than full on 'yeah fuck those Arabs kick em all out or bury them under the rubble' from Trump. To say nothing of the rest of the world being impacted by his policies, such as all the queer people now left high and dry without HIV MEDICATION because he withdrew US ovrseas support, something the Democrats would not have done. But fuck them gays, if you don't take the my-way-or-the-highway route you clearly don't care about people outside of your little area of the world, eh? Yep. Sound reasoning. Bring on the fascists. I'm sure Palestinians are loving the faint taste of Pure Principles wafting across the sea from you. Really makes all the death and destruction getting even worse totally worth it. I'm sure all the marginalised groups across the entire planet are thanking you as well.

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Hello goyische leftist reading this. Please say "I condemn online harassment against Jews" without mentioning Zionism or Israel.

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Okay even if I am biased (kowalas are my fave animal) stop with the "kowalas are stupid and useless" stuff.

They are endangered. This rhetoric that they don't do anything is horrible.

This is a great rebuttal to a common copypasta that calls them "fucking horrible animals".

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Unconditionally accept nonbinary identities. I am no longer asking

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YOU CANNOT BE A TRANSFORMERS FAN AND BE ANTISEMITIC

Henry Orenstein and Bob Budiansky were two Jewish men who helped create Transformers. Henry was a Holocaust survivor who died in 2021, may his memory be a blessing. Bob is still alive.

Hasbro was founded by three Jewish brothers, Henry, Hillel, and Herman Hassenfeld

Many of the original G1 voice actors who voiced multiple major characters (from the top of my head, Corey Burton, Michael Bell, Alan Oppenheimer, and Gregg Berger) are Jewish

For their most major roles, in G1, Corey Burton voiced Shockwave, Spike Witwicky, and Brawn. Michael Bell voiced Prowl and Sideswipe. Alan Oppenheimer voiced Seaspray, Beachcomber, Warpath, and Breakdown. Gregg Berger voiced Grimlock and Skyfire. Corey reprised his roles as Shockwave and Spike in Transformers: Animated and also took on the roles of Ratchet and Megatron. Michael voiced High Tide in Rescue Bots and reprised his role as Sideswipe in Devastation after thirty years. I'm not aware of Alan reprising his roles, but he's more famous for voicing Skeletor. Gregg reprised his role as Grimlock a couple times.

A lot of the later voice actors, such as Max Mittelman (Blurr in Rescue Bots and RID 2015), Steve Blum (Starscream in Transformers: Prime and Earthspark), Neil Kaplan (Optimus Prime in RID 2001), Jeremy Levy (Bumblebee in Cyberverse), Carlos Alazraqui, Yuri Lowenthal (both voiced some minicons in RID 2015), and Tara Strong (Sari Sumdac in Transformers: Animated) are Jewish.

For more recent stuff, the voice actress of Elita One in TF: One is Scarlett Johansson, a Jewish woman.

YOU CANNOT BE ANTISEMITIC WHILE LIKING TRANSFORMERS. KICK ANTISEMITES OUT OF THE TRANSFORMERS FANDOM.

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Ah ok, got it. Thank you.

These people are fucking freaks, Jesus Christ. Imagine pulling this crap on some random girl's post. All she did was make a food poll 😭

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We don't fight the potential behaviours from this content by censoring the content. We fight it by teaching people to learn the difference between fact and fiction, and understanding that real people should never be treated like fictional ones.

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Do you love the artwork for The Everyday Naturalist as much as I do? That's the incredible skill and talent of Ricardo Macia Lalinde on full display! I was incredibly honored to have him as the cover and interior artist for the book, and many, many people I have shown the book to have immediately remarked on how gorgeous the cover is, before diving into the pages.

I love his natural history work not just for its accuracy, but because he never draws a living being by itself--it's always wrapped in the foliage and details of its ecosystem. He has also managed to give digital artwork a uniquely organic appearance; they remind me of mixed-media art combining watercolors and colored pencils with delicate detailing.

You can find more of his work at https://www.instagram.com/ricardomacia/--and if you want to learn from him, he has an online Naturalist Illustration with Ballpoint Pen course at https://www.domestika.org/en/courses/1668-naturalist-illustration-with-ballpoint-pen (and for the next three hours and change you can get it for just 99 cents!)

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when the whole house got the autism

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If your employers don't want you talking about your salary with your coworkers, it's because someone is being underpaid. Full stop. There is no innocent reason for not wanting employees to discuss their paychecks with each other.

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Sounds like a fun field trip. 👀

i just wanted you to know my actual name is bog. now whenever people say my name i think of you blurg. can we be besties <3

Why you name bog. Bog land. Blurg need hunting buddy to take down mammoth though

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😂

Something the AI text boom has made me realize is that "no information" is significantly better than "wrong information."

I just saw Doordash AI describe a gallon of blue cheese dressing as a "sweet and refreshing beverage concentrate."

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So brains are weird, on the plane I had this dream where I opened a box of Legos and it was all moldy, someone interpret that for me

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When I was a kid I was “darn I just love when female characters pretend to be dudes for whatever reason” and the reason will not shock you in the slightest