argumentspoliticized

[argumentspoliticized]

Okay. Let's look at the dictionary definition of conversion therapy.

This can include regular, sit-down-and-talk, psychoanalytic "therapy." In fact, that's the most common form it takes. It fucking kills people, and you've just described it all by yourself, word for word, in your clumsily phrased definition.

You are in favor of conversion, hence in favor of more people committing suicide, and that's absolutely psychotic.

And if you were just talking about someone's status at birth, why didn't you say so? I'm sure everyone with glasses, everyone who has ever gotten braces, anyone who has ever gotten a boob reduction so that their back pain stops, even anyone who has ever taken hormones to more completely align with their cis gender because of a endocrine disorder would be delighted to hear that none of those things are necessary because they would not exist without the treatment and are not real.

Let me be clear. Transitioning is a medical practice that has been shown to save lives. It has a lower regret rate than a fucking hip replacement. Anyone who argues against a procedure that harms no one and leads to actual human happiness in favor of their own nebulous, baseless beliefs is a monster.

Thanks for playing. You've displayed the exact level of intelligence and logic in this conversation that I expected you to.

Hi! I'll send this here just in case you didn't see it.

@foropinionssake infants go through hormone washes in the womb as well, which is what defines sex. That doesn't mean that the amount of sex hormone in their bodies is anything close to what a post-pubescent adult's body looks like. If you want to define gender based off of ratio hormone, that's still a spectrum. On purely biological terms, equating someone with massively high estrogen to someone with low, but still majority estrogen and saying they're the same is ridiculous. Claiming scientific superiority over the other side while you spread information that gets people killed is heinous, and I'd appreciate if you would address that as well.

That’s not true my dude. You’re the one that’s scientifically wrong. A zygote has estrogen or testosterone. It’s what starts the sex organ development…. Thanks for playing. Go get an education

I also love that you ignored my post proving you wrong

[argumentspoliticized]

"I mean as in get help realizing you can’t change your gender."

My guy, what do you think conversion therapy is? Are you saying you support something that's been shown to directly cause suicide?

Also, it's not like trans girls have fake estrogen in their bodies, or trans boys have fake testosterone. That's real, it's the same hormone. There are a lot of trans women out there who, if you took a look at your estrogen levels versus theirs, would be absolutely indistinguishable.

Hi! I'll send this here just in case you didn't see it.

@foropinionssake infants go through hormone washes in the womb as well, which is what defines sex. That doesn't mean that the amount of sex hormone in their bodies is anything close to what a post-pubescent adult's body looks like. If you want to define gender based off of ratio hormone, that's still a spectrum. On purely biological terms, equating someone with massively high estrogen to someone with low, but still majority estrogen and saying they're the same is ridiculous. Claiming scientific superiority over the other side while you spread information that gets people killed is heinous, and I'd appreciate if you would address that as well.

That’s not true my dude. You’re the one that’s scientifically wrong. A zygote has estrogen or testosterone. It’s what starts the sex organ development…. Thanks for playing. Go get an education

I also love that you ignored my post proving you wrong

[argumentspoliticized]

When you mean seeking mental help, are you suggesting what we would call conversion therapy? I've seen on your blog that you "deny" trans people's gender, but that's been shown to have significant negative mental ramifications. A study in 2019 showed that transgender youth who went through your so-called "mental help" suffer incredible psychological distress and have a further increased risk rate of suicide, even higher than a 41% self-reported suicide attempt average for trans people in general, not even to mention suicidality.

A lot of your own requirements for someone to be x or y gender are satisfied by medical transition. If gender is a physical fact, why are there trans women out there with better pussy game and a higher ratio estrogen than you? Denying transgender people transition has been empirically shown to bring death and harm to them. Transitioning has been shown to bring about human happiness without harming anyone else, so I can't fathom why you oppose it.

We return to the baseline question here -- would you rather recognize someone's pronouns and help them transition or bury them? That seems to be the dichotomy we're facing here, and the fact that you smugly seem to prefer the latter is sick.

Hi! I'll send this here just in case you didn't see it.

@foropinionssake infants go through hormone washes in the womb as well, which is what defines sex. That doesn't mean that the amount of sex hormone in their bodies is anything close to what a post-pubescent adult's body looks like. If you want to define gender based off of ratio hormone, that's still a spectrum. On purely biological terms, equating someone with massively high estrogen to someone with low, but still majority estrogen and saying they're the same is ridiculous. Claiming scientific superiority over the other side while you spread information that gets people killed is heinous, and I'd appreciate if you would address that as well.

That’s not true my dude. You’re the one that’s scientifically wrong. A zygote has estrogen or testosterone. It’s what starts the sex organ development…. Thanks for playing. Go get an education

I also love that you ignored my post proving you wrong

[argumentspoliticized]

@foropinionssake

Typical tumblr reading comprehension, I guess? I literally acknowledged that in the ask above. Also, if you don’t mind checking my blog, I also responded to the post you mentioned. Where was this gung ho debate bro spirit when you asked me to take it to messages?

Listen. While you’re right that there are hormones in the womb, that doesn’t functionally mean anything. Your point doesn’t prove your position. If the percentage hormone can be changed and the sex organs can be reconstructed, all you really have left going for you is that the body was a certain way ‘at birth’, which also means absolutely fucking nothing. If a human is only definable at birth and their eyes aren’t working perfectly and they need glasses, should they not wear glasses or get lasik surgery because they were born with an astigmatism?

Unless you want to take this to a debate over the ability to get pregnant, in which case you’re going to have a bad time. Your definitions for male and female are absolutely fucking transient, and no amount of Science Words is going to change that. Thank you for the informative article. You’re still wrong.

Hi! I'll send this here just in case you didn't see it.

@foropinionssake infants go through hormone washes in the womb as well, which is what defines sex. That doesn't mean that the amount of sex hormone in their bodies is anything close to what a post-pubescent adult's body looks like. If you want to define gender based off of ratio hormone, that's still a spectrum. On purely biological terms, equating someone with massively high estrogen to someone with low, but still majority estrogen and saying they're the same is ridiculous. Claiming scientific superiority over the other side while you spread information that gets people killed is heinous, and I'd appreciate if you would address that as well.

That’s not true my dude. You’re the one that’s scientifically wrong. A zygote has estrogen or testosterone. It’s what starts the sex organ development…. Thanks for playing. Go get an education

I also love that you ignored my post proving you wrong

[argumentspoliticized]

@foropinionssake infants go through hormone washes in the womb as well, which is what defines sex. That doesn't mean that the amount of sex hormone in their bodies is anything close to what a post-pubescent adult's body looks like. If you want to define gender based off of ratio hormone, that's still a spectrum. On purely biological terms, equating someone with massively high estrogen to someone with low, but still majority estrogen and saying they're the same is ridiculous. Claiming scientific superiority over the other side while you spread information that gets people killed is heinous, and I'd appreciate if you would address that as well.

Hey! Would you like to have a debate about your anti-trans standpoints? It seems like that's what this blog is for, and I think there are some facts you're not exactly taking into account that I'd like to point out.

Sure go for it

[argumentspoliticized]

@foropinionssake

"Sexual dimorphism in blood sex hormone levels is (only) evident in children above 8 years of age"

Now obviously it's likely younger than that, and there's often no real way to diagnose gender dysphoria and get treatment at such a young age safely. However, this fundamentally disproves your point. There is an age where blood sex hormone levels are indistinguishable between males and females. Even if it's not exactly perfect, puberty blockers will prevent a lot of that from happening. And once they start on hormone replacement therapy, they'll go through a puberty that is nearly identical to their cisgender peers. It doesn't matter if their body naturally produces estrogen, testosterone, or fucking Kool-Aid -- for the duration of HRT, by your definition, a trans woman is a woman and a trans man is a man.

Moreover, here's what I think you don't understand. If I had to choose between throwing out the concept of gender entirely and a single kid committing suicide because their gender doesn't align with their body and they couldn't get any help or support, the concept of gender would already have ceased to exist. Your standpoint is useless, except for the fact that it actively aligns with an actual genocidal rhetoric that is causing real life anxiety and real life deaths. Your fifth grade biology class knowledge is incapable of accounting for all of the different ways that sex and gender express themselves in the unbelievably complex systems that are our bodies, and your smug ignorance is hurting people.

You can't provide me with any actual evidence to support your viewpoint, because it doesn't exist. If all you have to offer me in this debate is "men cannot be women and women cannot be men" and the absolute nonsense of an idea that a baby is born with similar testosterone levels to a grown man, I think you legally owe me money for the time I've wasted formulating arguments against you.

Hey! Would you like to have a debate about your anti-trans standpoints? It seems like that's what this blog is for, and I think there are some facts you're not exactly taking into account that I'd like to point out.

Sure go for it

[argumentspoliticized]

@foropinionssake I'll self-reblog my response so we don't need to move to messages

Hey! Would you like to have a debate about your anti-trans standpoints? It seems like that's what this blog is for, and I think there are some facts you're not exactly taking into account that I'd like to point out.

Sure go for it

[argumentspoliticized]

Listen man you can say something as loudly as you like, but you haven't shown me any evidence to disprove anything that I've just told you. Your definitions aren't actually based on science, they're based on a funny little feeling you have. You can't back them up.

Let's try a hypothetical. We have a trans woman who, before puberty, took puberty blockers. She didn't have any majority sex hormones in her body before that because that's simply not? a thing?

She then takes estrogen and gets top and bottom surgery. The majority hormone in her body is estrogen, and has been since the point she started having sex hormones circulating through her body. She's never had "majority" testosterone. She has a functioning neo-vagina. In a few years, she may be able to give birth.

How is she not a woman?

Hey! Would you like to have a debate about your anti-trans standpoints? It seems like that's what this blog is for, and I think there are some facts you're not exactly taking into account that I'd like to point out.

Sure go for it

[argumentspoliticized]

Right, but that's based on a really narrow and simple understanding of biology. I'm actually a good example here. The women in my family have a history of PCOS, and I have it as well. I might have gotten a female hormone wash in the womb, giving me a uterus and such, but my testosterone levels are incredibly high. This means that I have secondary sex characteristics that are male.

Also, what on earth does "majority hormone at birth" mean? Puberty is triggered by the gonads releasing estrogen and testosterone. Puberty blockers can effectively prevent masculinization or feminization of the face, the dropping, etc of the voice, and potentially even prevent bone structure from changing. There is no majority hormone at birth, and if you're talking about hormone washes in the womb, there's a decent chance that even that won't mean anything.

You're failing to take androgen insensitivity into account. You seem to think that sex is something that's encoded into our very beings, but in reality your definition doesn't hold up. What if someone has XY chromosomes but an androgen insensitivity? By genetic definition, even though they can have a working vagina and feminine secondary sex characteristics, that person is male. The simple fact here is that biology is more complicated than you want it to be, and your definition falls apart the second we actually look at it.

Hey! Would you like to have a debate about your anti-trans standpoints? It seems like that's what this blog is for, and I think there are some facts you're not exactly taking into account that I'd like to point out.

Sure go for it

[argumentspoliticized]

Great! So, generally since trans women tend to be the subject of most of the genocidal rhetoric surrounding this matter, at least up until recently, let's narrow the scope a little. What's your definition of a woman? What are the requirements?

Hey! Would you like to have a debate about your anti-trans standpoints? It seems like that's what this blog is for, and I think there are some facts you're not exactly taking into account that I'd like to point out.

Sure go for it