archivalflags

[archivalflags]

Jumping off that last post, finding that source on the Behr/Bear flag is interesting to me in the context of the whole “who did the middle white stripe with the gradients first” debate because it’s from 1995.

The lipstick lesbian flag is on the same page credited to 2010 as well

edit: if you click the link to the Behr flag’s creator it prompts you to send an email to an AOL dot com address

[archivalflags]

[ Image Transcription : 

A flag with seven stripes, three deep green stripes are on the top separated from three deep blue stripes on the bottom by one white stripe in the middle.

End Transcription ]

A compiled history of the first popularized Gay / Gay Man / Gay Men / Gay Male flag proposal.

This history is somewhat incomplete because of the lack of consistent documentation of this flag as it gained popularity. As resources are found and more research is done, it will be updated accordingly.

This post was made as a reference and is free to be cited.

Keep reading

[archivalflags]

Clearing up some things about the “”official”“ gay man pride flag:

[Image: A flag with 7 stripes. The first three go from dark blue-green to light blue-green. The center is white. The bottom three stripes go from light to dark blue. It was designed to mirror the lesbian flag]

[Original post about it here] [Deviantart original posting with updated description here] [ @archivalflags​ more detailed post about it here]

Mod Hermy of the Pride-Flags Deviantart here: I just found out during my hiatus from this blog that there’s been a lot of discourse surrounding this flag that I helped make.

APPARENTLY some truscum/transmed took this flag and reuploaded it (that got 8.2k notes vs the 9 notes my original post has), wording it in a way that made people think it was made by them (and also “official”). Also, it seems like it’s been co-opted by truscum and transphobes to exclude trans and nonbinary gay men.

I am beyond pissed off at this, especially since I don’t remember anyone telling me it was stolen.

To be very clear:

I never want any of my flags being used to exclude part of the LGBTQAI+/MOGAI community. I am fully supportive of all aspec identities, “MOGAI” genders (including xenogenders, kingenders, neurogenders and neurorientations) pronoun noncomforming gays and lesbians (or anyone, really), GNC trans people, people who use the SAM, low/non-dysphoric trans people, and anyone else who may get excluded.

Basically, any identity (that’s not centered around harming people or animals) is amazing and valid.

Also this was never meant to be a finalized design (especially since I’m nonbinary and bi), it was simply a suggestion since the anon that asked me about a gay man flag suggested one that was too similar to the butch lesbian flag.  They never followed up on it so I posted it on Deviantart for opinions but didn’t get much interaction there. I saw it around a few times but didn’t realize it took off like that and was being credited to a truscum, no less.

I’m not quite sure what to do regarding damage control around the exclusionists that are using my flag, but I started by working with several gay men in a pride, and my personal server to come up with meanings for each stripe (based on @gayflagblog​ ‘s flag) that explicitly include GNC, nonbinary, trans, ace/arospec, split-attraction, and pronoun nonconforming gay men (also made it prettier).

[Image: The same flag as above but with meanings superimposed over each stripe: [Community] [Inclusion] [She/her and pronoun noncomforming gays] [GNC, nonbinary, and trans men] [Ace/arospec and split-attraction gays] [Love and attraction] [Diversity]]

Here’s a better version made by @gayflagblog​ to deal with the problems with my proposal/suggestion:

[Images: Two flags made to look similar to the first flag but with bolder colors. The blue stripes are slightly more purple and the green stripes are slightly more green. The first flag has seven stripes and the second is a simplified 5-stripe version]

And [Here] are some more gay man/MLM flags (including PNC and SAM gays) made by other people that I’ve been collecting (gallery is incomplete though, please send any missing flags/sources to me).

[archivalflags]

[ Image Transcription : 

A flag with seven stripes, three deep green stripes are on the top separated from three deep blue stripes on the bottom by one white stripe in the middle.

End Transcription ]

A compiled history of the first popularized Gay / Gay Man / Gay Men / Gay Male flag proposal. UPDATED 4/12/22 WITH IMPORTANT INFORMATION, PLEASE SCROLL TO “UPDATE SECTION”.

This history is somewhat incomplete because of the lack of consistent documentation of this flag as it gained popularity. As resources are found and more research is done, it will be updated accordingly.

This post was made as a reference and is free to be cited.

Creation

The Gay Man Flag was created by an anon and Mod Hermy from @.ask-pride-color-schemes [1].

[ Image Transcription :

“Anonymous asked: Relating to the old discussion on a separate flag just for gay men a while back (since the regular gay flag tends to be used for LGBT overall). Since theres a lesbian flag that is the lipstick lesbian flag minus the lipstick symbol, maybe a gay man pride flag could be the gay bear flag without the bear symbol? Alternatively, maybe the same set up as the lesbian flag, but using blue and purple colors instead of red and pink. Just some suggestions!”

Mod Hermy responds “Looks like someone already beat you to the blue/purple idea and used it for the Butch lesbian design: *image of the blue and purple Butch Lesbian flag*

*image of the proposed gay flag*  And I dunno about the other idea, I think the brown colors might be so distinctly ‘bear’ that just removing the pawprint will just confuse people, but who knows!”

End Transcription ]

The history of this flag is muddled as it was not credited during it’s initial spread. It was somewhat popularized through people arguing about it after transmedicalist/transmed/truscum blogger @discourse-king posted it without credit and it gained traction [2].

Some claimed that there were meanings behind the stripes and that it was created by one person, but there were no “official” meanings posted by the creators, and (as previously stated) the flag was a collaboration over asks. [3]. Many mis-attributed the flag as @discourse-king’s creation, thinking that it was somehow pro-transmedicalist.

The Anon that suggested the flag could be Truscum, however Mod Hermy & Ask-pride-color-schemes are not, so it's unlikely that a Transmed would be contacting them. Additionally, the Anon's suggestion was modified by Mod Hermy who actually made the image, so even if a Transmed suggested it, they didn't create the final product.

Overall opinions on the flag seem to be mixed. Commonly seen criticisms are the color scheme being primarily blue, it’s similarity to the lipstick lesbian flag, and arguments over the “need” for a more specific flag beyond the rainbow flag [4] for gay men.

A common statement about the , making it appear as shades of light & dark blue if the image quality is less than perfect, if your screen brightness isn’t high enough, or if your computer or phone display doesn’t have very sharp colors, hence the “all blue” moniker.

The flag has been adopted for use by multiple communities, most unfavorably by r/LGBdroptheT [5], who have actively complained about similar trans-inclusive proposals for both lesbian and gay flag designs.

[ Image Transcription : 

A r/LGBDropTheT post criticizing @gayflagblog​'s gay flag proposal for including trans men and nonbinary gays with the header “Not mentioning me is not allowed anywhere”

End Transcription ]

[ Image Transcription : 

A r/LGBDropTheT post criticizing @sadlesbeandisaster’s lesbian flag proposal for including trans women and nonbinary lesbians, with the header “The ‘new’ lesbian flag includes men and women who don’t want to be women.”

End Transcription ]

However, usage of the flag by an individual or group does not directly indicate trans-exclusionary or transmedicalist views, as the flag is neither explicitly inclusive or exclusive of trans/nb spectrum gay men.

This flag has commonly been mistaken for other proposed flags, either due to similarity in color scheme or number of stripes.

[ Image Transcription :

A flag with five stripes, two deep green stripes are on the top separated from two deep blue stripes on the bottom by one white stripe in the middle.

End Transcription ]

Tumblr user Gee-Makes-Flags has made a “simplified version” of the flag which has also been used in place of the original.

UPDATE SECTION

On March 3rd, 2021, Mod Hermy came out of Hiatus on ask-pride-color-schemes and commented on this post. [6]

[ Image Transcription :

A reblog of this post by ask-pride-color-schemes, it says

 “Mod Hermy here: I’m just getting off hiatus from this blog and am now learning about all the discourse about this flag. I’m going to make a longer post later but I’m super pissed it got stolen and co-opted by some truscum/transphobes. I updated the description on my Deviantart post”

A link to the pride-flags Deviantart page is given

End Transcription ]

Mod Hermy then updated the description of the flag’s Deviantart page to the following [7]:

[ Image Transcription :

" Two years late and I'm just learning about a ton of discourse surrounding this flag. APPARENTLY some truscum/transmed took this flag and reuploaded it, wording it in a way that made everyone think it was made by them (and "official"). Also,it seems like it's been co-opted by truscum and transphobes to exclude trans and nonbinary gay men.

So I'll try to clear things up.

Around May 2017 an anon made a suggestion on my blog ask-pride-color-schemes about a flag specifically for gay men:

“Relating to the old discussion on a separate flag just for gay men a while back (since the regular gay flag tends to be used for LGBT overall). Since there's a lesbian flag that is the lipstick lesbian flag minus the lipstick symbol, maybe a gay man pride flag could be the gay bear flag without the bear symbol? Alternatively, maybe the same set up as the lesbian flag, but using blue and purple colors instead of red and pink. Just some suggestions!”

I responded saying that a blue and purple one would look too much like the butch lesbian flag so I suggested this blue and green one (also that a bear pride without the paw would probably be confusing).

I posted it and it never got a follow up from anon and the post got like 6 notes so I just moved on with my life. I did see it around once or twice but never thought about it much because I've helped make lots of flags before.

This was never meant to be a finalized design, it was simply a suggestion since the anon's was too similar to the butch lesbian flag.

This post explains a lot of what happened. [ A link to this post is given ]

I'm going to contact the creator of the edited flag @gayflagblog​  and work with him and the pride server I'm in to come up with meanings for the stripes so hopefully truscum/transphobes will stop using this one.

Definitely going to keep the top/middle/bottom stripe meanings but would also like to add stripe(s) for ace/aro/mspec gay men.”

End Transcription ]

Mod Hermy then made a Tumblr post on March 5, 2021 talking about how they were extremely upset at what had happened, and stated that all of the flags they make are inclusionary of all non-harmful LGBTQAI+ and MOGAI identities. [8]

[ Parts of this post which are heavily similar too, or the same as the updated Deviantart description are not shown, the full post is linked below as source 8]

[ Image Transcription :

"I am beyond pissed off at this, especially since I don’t remember anyone telling me it was stolen.

To be very clear:

I never want any of my flags being used to exclude part of the LGBTQAI+/MOGAI community. I am fully supportive of all aspec identities, “MOGAI” genders (including xenogenders, kingenders, neurogenders and neurorientations) pronoun noncomforming gays and lesbians (or anyone, really), GNC trans people, people who use the SAM, low/non-dysphoric trans people, and anyone else who may get excluded.

Basically, any identity (that’s not centered around harming people or animals) is amazing and valid.”

End Transcription ]

Hermy then shared the official meanings of each of the flag’s stripes which they had based off of gayflagblog’s proposal and made with the help of their personal Discord server and several gay men in a pride.

[ Image Transcription :

“I’m not quite sure what to do regarding damage control around the exclusionists that are using my flag, but I started by working with several gay men in a pride, and my personal server to come up with meanings for each stripe (based on @gayflagblog​ ‘s flag) that explicitly include GNC, nonbinary, trans, ace/arospec, split-attraction, and pronoun nonconforming gay men (also made it prettier).“

A flag with seven stripes, three deep green stripes are on the top separated from three deep blue stripes on the bottom by one white stripe in the middle. Meanings are superimposed over each stripe: [Community] [Inclusion] [She/her and pronoun noncomforming gays] [GNC, nonbinary, and trans men] [Ace/arospec and split-attraction gays] [Love and attraction] [Diversity]

End Transcription ]

The post ends with Hermy sharing gayflagblog’s proposals, calling it “a better version... to deal with the problems with my proposal/suggestion” as well as sharing another link to the pride-flags Deviantart’s Gay Man/MLM flag section.

[ Image Transcription :

“Here’s a better version made by @gayflagblog​ to deal with the problems with my proposal/suggestion:”

Two flags made to look similar to the first flag but with bolder colors. The blue stripes are slightly more purple and the green stripes are slightly more green. The first flag has seven stripes and the second is a simplified 5-stripe version.

End Transcription ]

Sources:

[1] https://ask-pride-color-schemes.tumblr.com/post/149449006549/relating-to-the-old-discussion-on-a-separate-flag

[ Archive.org ]

https://ask-pride-color-schemes.tumblr.com/post/186058593899/do-you-know-who-can-be-credited-for-the-proposed

[ Archive.org ]

[2] https://tsurushokubutsu.tumblr.com/post/182729528749/this-is-the-official-gay-male-flag-a-wonderful

[ Archive.org ]

[3] https://the-diddly-darn-transmed.tumblr.com/post/182738942414/in-case-anyone-who-sees-this-is-confused-about-the

[ Archive.org ]

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_flag_(LGBT)

[5] https://imgur.com/a/6Tcglh5*

[ Archive.org ]

[6] https://ask-pride-color-schemes.tumblr.com/post/644684177601642497/image-transcription-a-flag-with-seven

[7] https://www.deviantart.com/pride-flags/art/Gay-Man-Proposed-Original-630382215

[8] https://ask-pride-color-schemes.tumblr.com/post/644881530268811264/clearing-up-some-things-about-the-official-gay

* for the purposes of not promoting or giving traffic to a hate group, this post will not be linking to the subreddit itself. Screenshots are provided instead. 

Edit : r/LGBDropTheT has been deleted in a recent Reddit banwave of subreddits found violating the TOS, live subreddit posts can no longer be accessed.