antizukkaa

[antizukkaa]

While I would disagree that is not the point of this post. It is targeting those who would call Zutara a problematic ship because Zuko is from the Fire Nation and Katara is from a water tribe, and then say that Zukka would not have that same power dynamic.

This logic has been parroted. Criticisms of Zutara which say the ship can be done in a racist way are not exempt from Zukka because it is gay. 

If you think Zukka is less problematic than Zutara, congratulations, you are a misogynist. And yes, you can be female and a misogynist.

[antizukkaa]

Could you go into more depth about the racist tropes and zukka please?

sure!

i’ve never been super into zukka, and i don’t usually read fanfic, so my explanation likely won’t hit all the points since i’m not familiar with them. also note that while i’m a poc, i am light skinned and japanese (similar ethnicity as zuko is implied to be).

that said, the biggest points here are firstly, the common z//utara trope of the fire monarch. secondly, the dynamic between the two and the archetypes (based on racist tropes) they are often written as.

the z//utara tropes. fire monarch tropes (fire lady katara/fire prince sokka) are bad because it makes a water tribe person, someone directly negatively impacted by the fire nation monarchy, part of the fn monarchy. it also comes with moving away from the water tribe and living full time in the fn. this means that these characters are made to abandon the culture they are, in canon, very connected to, which reeks of gentrification. it’s also plain insensitive to the pain that the fire nation has caused the water tribes... no water tribe person would want to live the rest of their life in the halls of the people who gave the orders to commit genocide against their people.

the dynamic/archetypes. the dynamic between sokka and zuko is generally that zuko is the fragile and highly targeted firelord in distress, and sokka is the strong, dependable warrior who protects him. this is racist on two fronts. sokka is a dark skinned moc. many darkskinned people, especially men, are stereotyped as strong, warriorlike, uncivilized, protectors. this is harmful because it suggests that men of color are dangerous, other, and violent. only portraying sokka as the protector encourages this harmful view of men of color. this ‘strong’ stereotype also leads to a disregard for the emotional and mental wellbeing of moc. it means that sokka’s feelings are often pushed down to make room for zuko’s. 

zuko is a light skinned asian man. light skinned asian men are often infantilized, and portraying zuko as a damsel in distress only fuels this stereotype. this happens to overlap with the fact that a considerable part of the fandom considers zuko to be neurodivergent/autistic coded, a group who are also constantly infantilized. when he isn’t infantilized, he is sexualized. he is a sixteen year old child from a children’s show, you should not be sexualizing him (either of them) at all.

not to mention the ‘top vs bottom’ dynamic that many people obsess over in queer pairings. disregarding the disgusting idea of sexualizing children, this also plays into the racist and homophobic dynamics: that the light skinned, feminine character plays the submissive role, and the dark skinned, masculine character plays the domineering role. queer men are not substitutes for already misogynistic heterosexual dynamics (submissive woman vs dominant man). they are not self inserts for heterosexual women (straight women imagining themselves as zuko, therefore deciding to feminize the bottom character). 

there are many more layers to this, i’m sure. but this is the most of it. dark skinned men of color are not violent, dominating protectors and deserve attention and care. light skinned men of color are not helpless, dumb babies, they deserve to be listened to and respected. queer stories are not for cishet women to insert themselves into. shipping two men does not make you a gay ally, educating yourself and supporting queer people does. white people/cishet women do not clown on this post. queer poc feel free to add.

[antizukkaa]

I'll make this short. You're a Zukka shipper, and this post is tagged Anti Zukka. That's how this account respects people's ships - by not posting in the main tags. Block the Anti Zukka tag and move on so you don't have to see any content against your ship. If a post is tagged Anti anything and you respond with it in defense to that, you're generally breaking tumblr etiquette. The same applies to the Anti Zutara and Anti Kataang tags. No discourse is started unless people post in the wrong tags.

And to your point, there is a small sect of the Zukka fandom who has targeted other shippers and does act in the way this post describes. If that's not you, move on. Thanks for respecting others.

imagine talking so much shit about katara for zukka of all ships….imagine. the clown energy!

 where’s the flavour? where’s the spice? somehow yall found a way to make this immaculately crafted asian show so fucking mayo. there’s nothing there, your honour, absolutely tasteless. every other ship is more valid. zukaang? exceptional. zutara? legendary. azulaang? iconic. mai and tylee? amazing katara x azula? show-stopping. 

i get it tho.  the only way you got to make a ship as boring as that work is by seasoning it with some misogyny and racism coz its got nothing going for it in canon and by extension….in fanon.

[antizukkaa]

If you think Zukka is less problematic than Zutara, congratulations, you are a misogynist. And yes, you can be female and a misogynist.

[antizukkaa]

Z/ukka has absolutely no canon basis, it's ridiculous. It's thinly veiled misogyny and racism and a uwu gay bandwagon ship which ruins two titular characters in the series.

And yet the shippers can't help but antagonize and sideline every other ship in the series. Kataang? Now a sideship. Zutara? Katara might be Sokka's sister, but it's inherently more racist, of course, because she's a girl. Zukaang? Too young - of course, let's just hate Aang. Maiko didn't happen, toss in Mailee for some wlw representation, a little beta ship. Sukka happened before Z/ukka but we'll either lump Suki in or just throw her away.

Really, they don't care about ATLA. They care about their next fad ship which can also be used to harass other shippers! And don't invalidate them at any point, because that's homophobia. /s

imagine talking so much shit about katara for zukka of all ships….imagine. the clown energy!

 where’s the flavour? where’s the spice? somehow yall found a way to make this immaculately crafted asian show so fucking mayo. there’s nothing there, your honour, absolutely tasteless. every other ship is more valid. zukaang? exceptional. zutara? legendary. azulaang? iconic. mai and tylee? amazing katara x azula? show-stopping. 

i get it tho.  the only way you got to make a ship as boring as that work is by seasoning it with some misogyny and racism coz its got nothing going for it in canon and by extension….in fanon.

[antizukkaa]

This is very, very well written, and the exact issue with the current Zukka fandom. They've completely forgotten what Avatar The Last Airbender is about, choosing instead to ship two "hot" guys together at the obvious detriment of Aang, Katara, and even the canonical characters of Zuko and Sokka. They're a bandwagon fandom which doesn't understand the show and its nuances - the long lasting ship wars and dynamics of this fandom aren't great, but at least they push critical analysis of the text to some extent, rather than rabid modern AUs (which aren't inherently bad, but in context) and pointless headcanons that could apply to any generalized mlm ship.

Zukka is the leading example of a toxic mlm fandom that was raised for absolutely no reason other than for the self-hating gays and fetishists (and yes, you do not necessarily have to be cishet to fetishize gay men. Anyone can do it). It is not representation nor is it a ship with any chemistry.

In a fandom with Zukaang, Jetko, and Sokka/Aang having more of a basis for canonical mlm ships (forgetting the many amazing wlw ships in the material) Z/ukka getting popular is ridiculous.

The homophobic Katara joke is ridiculous racialized misogyny.

Zukka has no canon material and yet the entire fandom is supposed to accept that it does.

Read this post, and then read it again. Understand what it is trying to say.

wait so like not to sound dumb but shipping any mlm ship when the canon ship was a het ship, wouldn’t that exclude females anyway ? Like you guys said zukka excludes katara and mai just for the sake of it but wouldn’t, say zukaang be doing the same thing since kataang is what’s canon ? I’m a lil confused about that part of what you (vomara) guys said

that’s not what either of us said lol, i won’t speak for them but i know MY frustration is with the kind of m/m shipping that zvkka has become - the huge juggernauts that saturate fandom, and overfocus on the two most conventionally attractive and masculine characters to the detriment of every other dynamic. i ship zukaang, and i maybe post more about it because it’s literally the lynchpin of the canon, but i also ship just about everything else (i’m writing fic for azula x aang and katara x yue, among others) and most of all i support and encourage a vibrant shipping community where every ship is given creative space in fandom to have fun and create fanworks. the problem with these big m/m ships like zukka is that -that isn’t enough for them, they have to take every aspect of canon and twist it to focus on their masculine faves. that big zvkka blog that originated “katara is a homophobe”, for example, tells people it’s racist to ship zutara, but their entire blog is a thinly veiled ode to zukka - a ship that has almost identical power dynamics. this same blog - and they have over 20k followers i think? so i’m not just singling them out to be petty; they are a genuine influential force in atla fandom rn - also insisted that toph and azula were “homophobic” and discourages people from shipping things like toph x aang, citing the age of the characters. 

and that’s my issue with the way zvkka fandom is presenting itself - like zvkka is this super obvious canon-supported ship that we’re all just too silly to get, when the truth is it’s a ship with some of the THINNEST canon material. it’s about how, in a cast of characters that include multiple well developed women of color, as well as a lead male character who’s an asian monk, the biggest fandom focus is on the “two hot boys” who barely have any interaction or connection in the show. my issue is migratory fandom colonizing fandom spaces with pre-determined aesthetics and tropes they force their chosen characters into, flattening those characters and diminishing every other important character they’re connected to. it’s takes like “sokka raised katara” and “katara was spoiled because she was a bender, while sokka suffered” being passed off as absolute canon when they’re simply the sad, shallow, misogynist, racist headcanons of a group of fans who can’t stand to contemplate any other interiority but that of traditionally masculine, cis-het men. it’s how once again, the pacifist asian monk lead character is erased or belittled in favor of thirsting for zuko. it’s about the absolute entitlement and arrogance these big m/m shippers bring to every single fandom they enter. it’s about the fact that it’s 2020, and fandom is still saturated with self-hating gays who only care about conventionally attractive cis-het men.

[antizukkaa]

did you see their pinned post ?? The lack of self awareness is annoying

the one about how it’s “racist” to create art of firelady katara? lmao yep. somehow though, zukka will singlehandedly solve racism and imperialism within the canon and never encounter any power dynamics they can’t easily overcome - as demonstrated copiously in canon where they have exactly *checks notes* 1.5 conversations about their feelings, one of which ends in awkward silence when none of them have a clue how the fuck to bond with the other.

[antizukkaa]

how does zukka erase katara? (not trying to be contrary, i'm genuinely asking)

the most popular ship in atla is zutara, and it also generally features katara being loved and supported by zuko and loving and supporting him in return.

zukka, rather than being about zuko and sokka, is a lot of times is just reactionary to zutara. a lot of zukka shippers shit on zutara and act like it's toxic (despite sokka being just as oppressed by fire nation as she is), say katara is "too strong to need a man", write her as pointlessly, uncharacteristically masculine and aggressive, or even homophobic.

there's a long history of erasure of dark skin female characters as desirable, especially by male characters the fandom likes (eg zuko).

basically there's nothing wrong with zukka in itself, but the recent wave of zukka shippers has a lot to do with the fact that katara haters can't stand the fact that zuko, the heartthrob of the series, is most often shipped with katara, whom they hate, and going hard for zukka while calling zutara toxic is a socially acceptable way to basically call katara ugly, aggressive, masculine, bitchy, selfish, unlovable, etc.

[antizukkaa]

It's sad that the Kataang fandom, which used to stand on its own, has been redelegated as a sideship to a fanon pairing in the past few months.

At least the Zutara and Kataang ship wars were about two relationships with a woman of color. Zvkka sidelines this relationship in favor of two men with zero canonical chemistry, rather than highlight a canon biracial relationship with a brown woman and monk.

[antizukkaa]

You know what I find confusing? When Zυkkα shippers claim that they are a neutral mediator on the Kαtααng vs Zutara ship wars, and are therefore the solution.

That’s like saying that the solution to an argument over whether milk or orange juice is a better drink for breakfast is solved by fruit loops. Fruit loops are literally consumed with milk, but not with orange juice. How can Zυkkα be a neutral mediator in this ship war, if one ship in the ship war gets in the way of that ship (Zutara), and the other doesn’t (Kαtααng)? Zυkkα shippers are obviously going to default to Kαtααng in this ship war, because it’s just simpler to keep Katara paired away with somebody besides Zuko, so that Zuko can be with Sokka.

Honestly, though, sometimes I feel sorry for Kαtααngers. The ATLA renaissance Zυkkα shippers have managed to turn Kαtααng— what was once one of the big main ships back in the day— into what is now mainly a side ship for their own ship. With Zutara, at least the ship remains the shining star in its own large fandom (that has the most fan content in the ATLA fandom), and is almost always focused on as a big main ship, and rarely ever as a mere side ship. Whenever I see Kαtααng content anywhere nowadays, it seems that the ship has often been relegated to a side ship in Zυkkα fics and art to keep Katara paired away with somebody, and keep Zuko free for Sokka.

But it misses the point of the initial argument in the ship war in the first place: Who would be better for Katara? Aang or Zuko? And the answer, "Aang, because it keeps Zuko free for Sokka" is not well-thought-out enough to be considered an adequate answer to the ship war. Also, it disrespects Katara’s character, because the answer to who she would be better with should not have to depend on how it affects Sokka’s ability to date a boy who was third wheeling with him and Suki during almost all of their interactions. But then again, considering that "homophobic Katara" is a well-known Zυkkα trope, I’m not too surprised that Zυkkα works rarely give much thought to Katara.

[antizukkaa]

i hate that one of the only reasons wlw atla ships are gaining traction are to make way for mlm ships

of course this is very general and not true of all ships, but let’s take sukitara fics on ao3

this is all works

this is excluding zvkka

that’s nearly half of all sukitara fics on ao3, and they’re just the side ship to the main mlm ship

i understand that it’s a small ship but come on. to have that many fics for the ship be just background is annoying. (not to mention that about 6 of the remaining fics after excluding zvkka are just gratuitious smut one shots with every pairing known to man)

idk this is all over the place

[antizukkaa]

How did the entire ATLA fandom, and even casual shippers, get brainwashed into shipping Zukka? Everyone has erased the show to fit into their fantasy ship and that proves the power of the (edited: female) fantasy in fandom.

[antizukkaa]

Criticism of gay ships is not, by itself, homophobic. Not shipping gay ships is not homophobic. Ships are more than mlm and mlw and wlw. They're about character dynamics and those are always open to evaluation.

[antizukkaa]

I like your blog because it feels like a safe place to talk about not liking zukka and shipping het couples. I like it because youre not mean about it either. I dont think theres anything wrong with shipping straight stuff and it doesnt make someone a homophobe. I also see a lot of ppl getting rly mad at ppl for not thinking Azula and Suki are lesbians. Even if u think that theyre bi ppl seem to get mad. It makes the fandom feel unsafe. HC what you want but let everyone else do the same. thing

I know you mean well with this anon and I’m happy that my blog feels like a safe space, but I honestly just got really sad reading this because it shows the true state of the fandom, which seems like a toxic environment for a lot of people. The fandom shouldn’t feel unsafe. That just breaks my heart. It makes me wish there weren’t so many gatekeepers. Avatar should be for all Avatar fans no matter what they ship or headcanon. Shipping straight ships is not homophobic and yet people get attacked all the time for this. I have sadly seen people insist that Azula is a lesbian and “if you disagree then you’re a homophobe”. I haven’t seen that with Suki yet. It’s so easy to stay out of other people’s business, but some arrogant people take it upon themselves to put others down with their “woke” morality. I hope that they will find happiness one day because they just seem like such sad, broken people.

[antizukkaa]

Where’s the lie at the end? 

Azulaang is totally valid, OP. Every ship is. What’s invalid is shippers hating on other ships - guess who?

Twitter: ew azulaang??! Why would people ship this—

Me: Listen, maybe I relate to the scary fire flinging lady. The one who has no close friends and a dwindling support system. The one who tries very hard to earn praise, not even love, from a family that ranges from abusive to neglectful. She is a villain, but you know what, so was Zuko! And maybe I relate more to the person who doesn't find an Iroh and instead has a mental breakdown. Because sometimes you try and you try but you don't realize you're on the wrong path, because you're a freakin preteen girl, and not everyone gets happy endings and maybe I relate to that too much okay!!!

And maybe I also relate to the boy who lost everything and is trying to start anew. Literally lost his entire found family and decided to focus on penguin sledding and helping other people instead of being an edgy self-centered mess willing to murder for honor. Maybe I relate to being my own light at the end of the dark tunnel.

Maybe I want to ship the best part of myself with my worst moments.

Maybe I like enemies to lovers, hero x villain, because of the mixing of ideals and the tension between two people who don't know enough about each other to hate, and yet they fight at their very best against each other every time because of a earned mutual respect for each others abilities.

Maybe I want to ship what I want because it interests me and not because it's popular with the fetishists and preteens on twitter.

Twitter: TL;DR. Anyways, azulaang is weird and toxic af now let me talk about my pure ships: billdip, klance, sessrin, sasunaru, ereri, and that crusty british guy. Oh! And I also ship Zukka but only in a way that includes blatant misogyny and also makes it uncomfortably clear that I stereotype asians and dark skinned men along with the #gays.

[antizukkaa]

I think that the reason ships like sukka and sokkla and zutara get so much hate is because they make zukka shippers feel threatened. For some reason zukka has to be the only ship. No ship is allowed to be more popular and have more attention than zukka.

I think these people don’t realize that the popularity of zukka is not going to influence the canon validity of the ship. Just as zutara never became canon, zukka fandom is just setting itself up for disappointment. All ship hate is dumb and a waste of time/anger. Just let people ship what they like!

[antizukkaa]

Out of every possible mlm ship in ATLA Z/ukka has minimal evidence especially when Jetko and Zukaang are right there for Zuko mlm ships. Zuko and Sokka are the most attractive, I suppose. There's really no basis for mlm Sokka.

Headcanons are cool, just dumps when people claim that Z/ukka is canon. There are a lot of ships to go through with more evidence than Z/ukka, mlm and otherwise.