aienna

[aienna]

Ryunosuke mentions his father in case 1

I was looking for optional flavor text and Ryu apparently has a father.

I guess we can intuit that his father played a decent part in raising him and valued politeness or something

More context under the cut:

I guess no one opted not to have the medical record presented. I never knew this flavor text even existed.

[aienna]

Thank you for the reply!

(spoilers as above + Japan side Asinine Attorney DLC)

I was never under the impression that Susato knew Kazuma that well, either. She never suspected that Kazuma had any motivation for going to London outside of "reforming Japan's justice system" until Ryu suggested otherwise. Also, since women are not allowed in court, she didn't have any references for his in-court behavior aside from the lighthearted DLC* case. And he's generally more intense in trials.

I don't think saying Kazuma's acting differently or that he's "not himself" is the same thing as saying he's changed, especially since the assassination exchange proved that he was this extreme from the start.

And Kazuma is behaving differently. He's noticeably colder to Ryu and Susato and, as Ryu points out, more hostile. Some of his trial conduct such as threatening people was in 1-1, but he shows more ruthless behavior than either of them has seen before, such as when he presses a man who's on the verge of an emotional breakdown to the point of fainting. The worse they've seen him do at that point was cutting Auchi's hair/hairband (according to the DLC* case, he didn't even cut his actual hair). There's also his constant insistence that Van Zieks is the reaper with little proof. We still see the occasional teasing remark and laughter from him, but it's far less frequent. We see the contrast at the end of the game when he appears at the dock to say goodbye to Ryu. He's back to his frequent warm laughter and friendly teasing.

While Kazuma's acting differently, I don't think he's "changed" (as Kazuma straight-up denies that he has) so much as he's so emotional he's not acting like he usually does (combined with the fact that he has a darker side to his personality that Ryu and Susato didn't realize existed), something that seems to become more clear as Kazuma starts having emotional outbursts during the trial. And I think Ryu and Susato start to realize this. Susato's statements morph from saying that Kazuma's possessed to "Is that really Kazuma-sama?" to stating that Kazuma is so emotional that he's not thinking logically. And Ryunosuke responds directly to her last statement by saying that although Kazuma is not himself, he knew it would be like this and still intends to face him as his friend.

Ryu even thanks Kazuma at the end of the trial as his best friend and I interpret that to mean that he (at least somewhat) accepted that the person he saw in court, accepted an assassination mission, and threatened Gregson for information is his best friend.

I also think Kazuma being far more flawed than Ryu or Susato realized fits in with the pattern of character's (Gina, Gorey, Barok, Kazuma) idols being more morally gray than they imagined (Gregson, Sithe, Klint, Genshin).

I suppose that this all can be interpreted in different ways, however, as this is something the game didn't really clear up as Ryu and Kazuma unfortunately never talked about the stampede of elephants in the room at the end of the game.

* There's some debate as to whether the DLC case is canon.

Van Zieks - the Examination, part 9

Warnings: SPOILERS for The Great Ace Attorney: Chronicles. Additional warning for racist sentiments uttered by fictional characters (and screencaps to show these sentiments).

Disclaimer: (see Part 1 for the more detailed disclaimer.) - These posts are not meant to be taken as fact. Everything I’m outlining stems from my own views and experiences. If you believe that I’ve missed or misinterpreted something, please let me know so I can edit the post accordingly. -The purpose of these posts is an analysis, nothing more. Please do not come into these posts expecting me to either defend Barok van Zieks from haters, nor expecting me to encourage the hatred. - I’m using the Western release of The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles for these posts, but may refer to the original Japanese dialogue of Dai Gyakuten Saiban if needed to compare what’s said. This also means I’m using the localized names and localized romanization of the names to stay consistent. -It doesn’t matter one bit to me whether you like Barok van Zieks or dislike him. However, I will ask that everyone who comments refrains from attacking real, actual people.

Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 Part 6 Part 7 Part 8

How the turnabouts have turned! It’s time for Twisted Karma and His Last Bow!

Keep reading

[aienna]

On Kazuma

(Spoilers for TGAA2-4, TGAA2-5)

Meanwhile, Ryu thinks to himself that Kazuma isn't behaving like himself, which is a sentiment they'll keep repeating throughout the case. … I gotta be honest here, I didn't notice all that much of a difference between this Kazuma and the one from the very first case of the game. I mean, come on, he sliced a man's hair off and cursed his descendants just for insulting Ryu.

Yep! That's the point as proven by this conversation:

It's less than Kazuma's changed and more that Ryunosuke's perception of Kazuma changed. Ryu put Kazuma on a pedestal, something that was amplified when he "died". He also didn't know a lot of things about Kazuma (his backstory, his real reason for wanting to go to London, the assassination exchange). As a result, Ryu became a layer to act as the substitute for the paragon he imagined and was thus shocked when he realized that Kazuma isn't as perfect as he thought he was.

Of course, Kazuma isn't clearly thinking as clearly as usual as this is something he's very emotionally invested in, hence why he continually insists that Van Zieks is guilty/the reaper despite mounting evidence to the contrary.

Van Zieks - the Examination, part 9

Warnings: SPOILERS for The Great Ace Attorney: Chronicles. Additional warning for racist sentiments uttered by fictional characters (and screencaps to show these sentiments).

Disclaimer: (see Part 1 for the more detailed disclaimer.) - These posts are not meant to be taken as fact. Everything I’m outlining stems from my own views and experiences. If you believe that I’ve missed or misinterpreted something, please let me know so I can edit the post accordingly. -The purpose of these posts is an analysis, nothing more. Please do not come into these posts expecting me to either defend Barok van Zieks from haters, nor expecting me to encourage the hatred. - I’m using the Western release of The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles for these posts, but may refer to the original Japanese dialogue of Dai Gyakuten Saiban if needed to compare what’s said. This also means I’m using the localized names and localized romanization of the names to stay consistent. -It doesn’t matter one bit to me whether you like Barok van Zieks or dislike him. However, I will ask that everyone who comments refrains from attacking real, actual people.

Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 Part 6 Part 7 Part 8

How the turnabouts have turned! It’s time for Twisted Karma and His Last Bow!

Keep reading

[aienna]

Thank you for your reply! I'm glad we can both agree that Barok's racism can be handled a lot better. I have a few things to clarify.

Spoilers as above + spoilers for T&T

But the easy counterargument is that AA don’t rely on show-don’t-tell very much, they like to tell a lot in fact, so at the end of the day, if Barok never admits that he harbored xenophobic views in his youth, we have to assume that those thoughts never crossed his mind back then.

Yep! AA is a series that is usually pretty straightforward as well as a series where the player is meant to identify with/agree with/project onto the player character. When the player character says something that doesn't fully agree with the game's consensus or doesn't tell the full story, another character usually chimes in to correct them. An example of this is in T&T where Godot states that he was more concerned about "redeeming" himself by playing the hero than actually saving Maya in order to contradict Phoenix and Maya's idea that Godot acted to save Maya.

In the case of TGAA, the game provides an explanation through Barok that he became racist from the Professor, the player character agrees with and sympathizes with this, and no counterargument is provided. It's no wonder that naive fans walked away thinking that Barok became racist because of Genshin.

This was just bad writing, plain and simple. I hate this blatant moment of OOCness

I agree that this is OOC. The way that the game couldn't even keep the "honest, truth-seeking prosecutor" portrayal consistent is another piece of bad writing to add to the pile.

So on one hand, no Ryuu doesn’t plan to reform a racist, but on the other… again it doesn’t influence his thoughts at all.

To clarify because I was unclear: I don't think that Ryu reached out to Barok with the intent to reform a racist. However, Ryu does show unrealistic amounts of patience and willingness to help Barok (showing up in person to check on him after he was attacked, showing up in the detention center to defend him, being so adamant that he's an "honorable" person, literally saying that Barok's racism is understandable) and as a result, Barok stopped being (as) racist. This unintentionally sends the "you can change a bigot's mind if you be the better person" message. This is a harmful message for a number of reasons:

a) It's not universally true. Not every racist can be "cured" if a POC is nice to them.

b) It puts the emphasis on the victim's role in "reforming" the racist and undermines the fact that the racist's behavior is the racist's responsibility and that introspection on the racist's part is doing the bare minimum.

c) It subtly encourages the victims to interact with the racist. Being subjected to the racist's dehumanizing behavior is something that can be detrimental to the victim's mental and, in the case of violent racists and/or racists in a position of power, sometimes physical health and well-being. Hence the claim from u/BSWolf777 that "being patient with racists is suicidal".

But I have a question: does it make sense for Barok to completely set aside his prejudices after discovering that Genshin was innocent and Klint was the real Professor, meaning that all this time he hated an entire population for nothing?

Considering he was a virulent racist for 10+ years and he lives in an extremely racist society, I doubt his racism is completely gone, though I wouldn't say it's a complete impossibility. Again though, the problem with Barok's racism being "cured" isn't that it's impossible (although it is far-fetched) but the message that it sends.

Basically, the main problem that many have with Barok is that he has a typical “rival arc”, as he starts hating the protagonist but then it turns out he has a tragic past and then protagonist and rival become friends… but his reasons for hating the protagonist are very real, very touchy, and something many people actually suffer from, so they’re not likely to feel sorry for him because they empathize with the victim, who on the other hand does not behave like they’d expect him to do.

Yes, though the problem doesn't just end at Ryu's reaction being unrealistic and immersion breaking. The problem is the message the game sends. The game presents an unrealistic, over-idealized version of racism that severely undermines the life-ruining harm even just verbal racism can cause. The game sends the message that racism is as harmless as an insult like "Herr Forehead" and doesn't negatively impact the victims (with the exception of Soseki, who Susato calls "paranoid" for his realistic reaction to racism). The game is more interested in sympathizing with the racist instead of sympathizing with the people who have to deal with racism. And it's really annoying when fans praise the game for not shying away from a "realistic" portrayal of racism, despite the fact that, with regards to Barok, this isn't how racism works.

I keep seeing numerous takes on Reddit of people thinking that Barok’s depiction of racism and his character development are rushed, a “colossal failure” and an insult (one finished their essay with “being patient with bigots is suicidial”).

I have half a mind to put black on white my unpopular opinion that everything in his backstory explains his mindset rather well and he is more than “Edgeworth but racist” :)

(I am a bit on the fence when it comes to Ryuu’s thoughts about him, I’ll give them that)

[aienna]

I agree with the opinions of the Reddit posts. Although they have said everything much better than I ever could, I will do my best to rephrase their sentiments on why the depiction of racism with regards to Van Zieks is problematic.

Here are the biggest Reddit arguments, btw:

Spoilers for all of TGAA + TGAA2

I agree with you that it definitely makes no sense that Barok wouldn't be racist before meeting Genshin. However, the game doesn't seem to take that position. In G2-3, Van Zieks states that his hatred towards the Japanese comes from the Professor. In G2-4, after Van Zieks talks again about how his "hate festered" following his "betrayal" from Genshin, Ryunosuke responds with "And I can understand why, now that I know the history" implying through Ryunosuke that we are meant to take this as the reason why he hates Japanese people. The game, either on purpose or through not doing anything to clarify that he was always racist, sends the message that Barok's racism is a result of trauma, a message that's nonsense because, as you pointed out, it doesn't make sense for a young, sheltered, British noble to not harbor the racist sentiment of his culture. In addition, Barok would not have come to the conclusion that all Japanese people are treacherous and that he's entitled to treat them badly if he wasn't already racist.

Yes, the game absolutely should have shown Ryunosuke react to Barok's racism either out loud or through his inner thoughts. The fact that he had no response at all, not even in his head is strange. You'd think he would feel angry, disheartened, alienated, dehumanized, etc. Look to real-life victims like Soseki Natsume to see how victims react. Showing no reaction from him beyond "Hmm, I wonder why Van Zieks is a racist..." and "Yeah, I understand why you're racist :)" implicitly conveys the message that racism is an annoyance at worst that doesn't mentally affect its victims.

And Ryunosuke, while on the easygoing side, isn't a complete pushover. He's willing to stand up against the witnesses and jury, Herlock, Strongheart, Kazuma, etc. Hell, he even makes a couple snarky remarks at Barok, even though they didn't address the racism. There's no reason why Ryunosuke couldn't call Barok out.

There's also the matter of his vindictive trial conduct to consider. He prosecuted Soseki twice because he's Japanese and, in the second of the trials, implied twice that his previous acquittal was a mistake and fed lies to Shamspeare. The game never acknowledges this beyond him apologizing for his "discourtesies" as if his racism amounted to nothing more than being rude. It's possible to slam a character's actions while still portraying them sympathetically. Kazuma is an example of this.

In spite of all this, Ryunosuke ignores Barok's transgressions and goes out of his way to reach out and help Barok. This is what causes Barok to reconsider his racist views. This narrative also presents a problem as it positions Ryunosuke's actions of reaching out to a racist as the correct thing to do, when it's actually very damaging, at the very least mentally, to be in the presence of a bigot and the best thing for people in Ryu's situation to take care of their own safety. In addition, being "one of the good ones" doesn't always even "fix" racism and often causes the racist to think "you're not like them".

Overall, the game presents a romanticized, unrealistic version of racism where the racist's racism is sympathetic because it developed through trauma, where the victims are not very adversely affected, where the racist can be chanced if a victim shows unrealistic levels of patience and reaches out to the racist. This sells a message that is heavily biased in favor of the racist and severely undercuts the negative impact racism can have in favor of sympathizing with the racist.

And a lot of fans seem to buy it. Obviously, some fans are able to recognize that tragedy alone doesn't make a racist and that Ryunosuke's lack of reaction is strange, like you for instance. But how many times have you seen the sentiment that Van Zieks' racism is "realistic" or that the game portrays "historically accurate racism"? How many times have you seen fans undercut Barok's actions as "saying mean things"? The worst part of the message the game unintentionally sends is not that just it's false; it's that it's convincing.

I keep seeing numerous takes on Reddit of people thinking that Barok’s depiction of racism and his character development are rushed, a “colossal failure” and an insult (one finished their essay with “being patient with bigots is suicidial”).

I have half a mind to put black on white my unpopular opinion that everything in his backstory explains his mindset rather well and he is more than “Edgeworth but racist” :)

(I am a bit on the fence when it comes to Ryuu’s thoughts about him, I’ll give them that)