#Like idk when the community was just the aspec community i saw a lot more support for a wider variety of aspec identities

[redysetdare]

*Sigh* every single day I see allo aspecs throwing a fit over aroaces posting about our experiences in the asexual and aromantic tags (especially the aromantic tag). Every. Single. Day. Like my sibling in talos what do you think aroace stands for? It stands for AromanticAsexual. Aroaces aren't any less aromantic than aroallos, and we're not any less asexual than alloaces. You're experiences aren't the "default" aro/ace experiences, get tf over yourselves. Why are we only "allowed" to use the aroace tag and not the aro and ace tags? And who made allo aspecs the authorities of the aspec communities?

I can understand to an extent where AlloAces and AroAllos are coming from in their frustration, but some in the tag have gotten to a point of kinda excluding aroaces.... I think a lot of people don't realize the "Aromantic" and "Asexual" tags are general tags for the community, so you're likely going to get a mix of everyone under those umbrellas. If you want specific content for a specific identity then you go to that identities tag. Also it's just frustrating because I've seen people blame aroaces for having posts "Clog up the tag" and it's like...the way to fix that is to make your own posts that YOU want to see. I never saw repulsed posts before I started making them. Sometimes if you want to see something then you got to do it yourself first. You can't expect people who are not of that identity to make posts about your identity - that's unreasonable.

Again, I understand where their feelings come from, everyone wants a voice and they feel drowned out - but when you start reaching for things to be mad at that are frankly petty (Legit saw someone get mad that the aroace, aromantic, and asexual tag always trend together. also saw someone saying the aroace tag had no right to trend on valentines day???) thats when I start to lose sympathy and start getting annoyed.

I'm willing to have a conversation about AroAllos and AlloAces experiences and the struggles they face inside and out of the community but once you start throwing other aspecs under the bus and blaming them for all your woes then I think You've lost the plot and I'm not as keen to listen to you then.

[xx-slug-xx]

Hiii so I just saw ur post and ask reply about proshipper antis and ocd and I wanted to give my two cents because idk I'm like self important or something? But I do think I have a good perspective as someone who's never truly affiliated with proship or anti proship (I'm also not a huge poster or anything so.)

I've been diagnosed with OCD for most of my life and also have been a victim of sexual violence, which is only relevant because when I was younger I had a debilitating obsession with being "found out" as someone who consumed noncon and proship content. I was really disgusted with it while simultaneously consuming and writing it myself, albeit privately which I thought made it "more okay". It took me a long while to leave this mindset because, as most ocd obsessions are, it was not congruent with reality. I feel the trap that a lot of people fall in to is within the labels of pro or anti, that there must be one or the other. Mainly people will label themselves as anti because it's, to me, an elitism of morality that only serves to detriment their own values. (Ie if you're pro-morals then you should seek to understand and rehabilitate, if you rlly think some kinks are so horrible that anyone who enjoys them needs to change.)

I've found that in the real world, among my friends who are on irl kink communities or who I just candidly discuss these sorts of things with, most don't have starkly pro or anti mindsets. I think it's strange that the very common mindset of "I'm really not into it but it's none of my business" is labeled as proship online. Ive never heard an incredibly anti sentiment be expressed as outwardly as it is online, because it's really just socially inappropriate to judge people's personal thoughts like that irl..? All that being said, I believe that if there wasn't this loud anti proship discourse online, I would have not been so distressed with my private thoughts before I was in recovery, and really the intensity with which these "thought crime" ideals are expressed only serves to make more people label themselves as proship. People generally don't like being judged for intimate things, shocker.

Valid experience and good opinions, anon :D

Tbh, my experience is kinda similar, though not exact. I always felt guilt for anything I enjoyed in fiction and that includes virtually all my kinks since they are mostly all fiction due to me being aspec! I think my guilt stems from religious trauma tbh. It’s a sin to be happy after all! Must be the devils temptation /j! Growing up in fandom, seeing people online saying all these things I enjoyed actually made me a bad person caused me feel like I was dirty. That there was something wrong with me for actually really mundane things. And my OCD fed off of that like a leach. I still to this day can’t let people borrow my phone bc my OCD tells me that people will do or say nasty things to me if they find out. “Find out” meaning that they see the fanart and fanfics that aren’t even on my device that I looked at somewhere in the past (not even recent!). Wasn’t until the last four-ish years where I realized that was dumb lol. It was a long journey of self acceptance that I still struggle with today. It’s hard to get past mental illness, but you can live with it and still be happy! It may never go away, but you can absolutely learn to tell your brain to stop being dumb as fuck!

Like, why would I be kicked out of my house for watching South Park as a child? I wouldn’t have been, but my OCD brain told me shit like that all the time! I’m not bad for having fun! Neither is anyone else!

I absolutely agree with you that labeling the normal response to seeing something you don’t like, or meeting someone who likes that thing, as “ok not my thing but good for you ig” shouldn’t be a “proship” thing. I don’t like the pro vs anti divide all that much. But in reality, that’s how this internet argument is taken and seen. It’s rooted in it from a fandom history perspective (as lame as it sounds when I say it lmao). Normal people in real life don’t care about internet drama, and they don’t care what a proshipper or antishipper is. I honestly feel like a lot of people forget that, but I see a lot of people on the anti side of things applying their internet opinions to the real world. That’s why I’m concerned. I see a lot of antiship people dropping irl friends and spreading label against them too, and it’s not a healthy mindset or way to live. It’s fine to not have the same tastes, even being uncomfortable with someone else’s tastes. But I don’t think it’s healthy to worry so much that it affects your real life like how I see a ton of antis doing. Life is uncomfortable and it’s full of people who can make you uncomfortable. But life isn’t black and white, and people/things that make you kinda uncomfortable with certain things can also be things you could care less about. I know so many people in my life at least who I just don’t talk about certain subjects with for that very reason, but we are still great friends regardless of our differences! And they aren’t “bad people” either lmao

Proship vs antiship never should have been a thing. Imo, you’re either an asshole towards others for stupid reasons, or you aren’t and just agree to disagree unless someone’s causing real harm! Proshippers can be assholes just like antishippers sometimes lmao, so those aren’t synonymous!

[aroacesafeplaceforall]

hello, its me! the anon who asked for your opinion abt shipping Alastor with other characters :)

firstly, thank you for answering! i totally agree that, if you build on a character's canon aro/ace orientation, then shipping them would be okay. ive just heard other people say doing that was aroace erasure, and i didnt feel like i had much say, because (as previously stated) im aceflux and nebularomantic.

my sexuality fluctuates, and i cant really tell the difference between romantic and platonic attraction, which is why i didnt feel qualified to put out my opinion on such matters

i also feel like i should apologize, bc i kinda feel like my ask may have snowballed into some sort discourse? idk, just from what i saw when looking at the blog every now and then, it looked like some shit was going down, revolving around Alastor 😭

now, onto why im here: why should someone do if a person they looked up to, who outwardly supported the aroace community, turns out to be a horrible person? (im sure that some people reading this can already guess who im talking about)

i feel so icky about the situation, bc ive supported and loved this person for years. all of the songs theyve ever written have been so aro-coded (as said by aromantics), and a vast majority of their fanbase is aromantic/on the aro/ace spectrum, myself included. they even spoke about their love for the aromantic community openly, and now, with them being exposed as a horrible person, i dont really know how to feel. is there any advice you could give me and others who are in the same boat? /nf

—sincerely, 🦢🦌

No it’s all good! The discourse was started by me ducking up and some people taking it slightly to far.

Unfortunately I do know who you’re talking about. I was in that fandom back in 20-22 ish, and I couldn’t be happier that I left. Honestly. I don’t know ANYthing about the situation other then someone being revealed to be a piece of shit for some reason and I would like to keep it that way:

I don’t need to know the details about what this person did.

Small side note before I begin:

I think the problem is a lot of people have put people like that on a pedestal while not knowing anything about them. 

The big difference between e- celebrities and true (actors, singers, rich assholes ect) celebrities is the accountability of the public. True celebrities have been held accountable much sooner and to much more effect then e-celebrities due to the fact that the media cares what they do. The paparazzi ect

People talking about not listening to said persons music anymore: reminder that it’s not only them who produces and plays that music. Don’t listen to their solo shit, burn CDs rip it off YouTube, piracy is on the rise.

The rest of the people involved with the band are NOT at fault here and their career and income should not have to suffer for an asshole.

“Cancel” the person not the team.

You can still relate to something without relating to the asshole

You can still relate to something without being the asshole

Be respectful

Listen to victims

And a word for my aspecs ->

The amount of straight people who are just as bad doesn’t matter here, no matter what happens next, all people will see is “he supported aroace spec people” and will try and use it.

Ignore that block them and report harassment

Stay safe anon

[confessions-official]

I feel so isolated from my irl queer community as an aromantic asexual. :( Went to two different pride festivals and both times I left feeling dejected. Admittedly the bad feelings were partially caused by the fact that I had no one to go with, I'm sure I could have had a better time if someone was there to hang out with me. But regardless I'd gone out in hopes of finding a place where I'd feel accepted and what I mostly found was a lack of representation for my identities or even general awareness that I exist. Almost none of the merch was for aspecs of any kind, if they did have something it was usually only for asexual. Of the maybe 40+ vendors I saw at both events combined there was a SINGLE one that was selling aromantic and aroace flags. I know aspecs are a minority within the community and that a lot of our labels, experiences, etc aren't as widely known as others. But idk it just sucked to be slapped with the reality of it like that. I was holding an aroace flag I'd brought and a couple people stopped to ask what flag it was, which was both very appreciated and a little more salt in the wound. On one hand, I'm so glad they asked! I'm more than happy to explain and spread awareness. On the other, when you're already feeling kinda forgotten about, it's gonna hurt to hear others say things like "oh i've never heard of that". Aside from big events I've also been going to all sorts of local queer meetups and groups. I'm trying my absolute best to be involved in the community. But almost every time I only end up feeling more separated. Most queer people I meet tend to either not know my identities exist at all or they rarely remember that they do. Wish I had an optimistic way to wrap up this long vent or at least some suggestions for how things could get better. But I've got nothin' right now. Honestly I'm just tired, sad, and feeling very alone. (shoutout to all the aspecs out there btw. aromantic, asexual, aplatonic, all of us)

 

[aromantisk-fagforening]

I saw your post about identifying as anatractional. so are you also aplatonic? (/genq)

I don’t remember you mentioning anything about aplatonicism in the past, but apls are awesome and always seem to have the best aspec takes imo 👌

I don't really identify as aplatonic because I can enjoy having friends, but I wouldn't say I feel platonic attraction, friendships to me are just circumstance and sometimes "math" (reasoning and such).

I have noticed I change my mind a lot about friendships, sometimes I wish I had more friends, other times I don't really feel like working on any friendships (e.g. planning stuff with friends, talking to friends, looking for friends) at all. I would say that in general I value co-existing (e.g. library-going) and finding community (e.g. reading other aromantics' thoughts) higher than the average friendship, though I really like when people will like teach you information and such (e.g. friendship, YouTube, school).

idk if that answers the question, but yeah. I guess not really aplatonic, not not aplatonic, and yeah. Anattractional label just fits in general so I kinda figure not particularly identifying with aplatonic as a label doesn't really mean I can't identify as anattractional.

[22degreehalo]

Sooo once again recently I have been browsing various queer-centric merchandise on etsy and the like, and (as always) been disappointed at the quantity/quality of aspec-focused stuff. Which also ties in to an overall (IMO) egregious lack of aspec... memey stuff?? and general place in, like, actual community everyday conversation, outside of painfully repetitive and boring identity glossaries.

And. It's difficult. It really feels so difficult, sometimes. To talk about being aspec without

a) being sex-negative in really gross, harmful ways (that just as often harm other aspecs btw)

b) being like... super self-deprecating in a way that I feel also harms aspecs and reinforces the idea of us as losers and failures in a kind of 'are they laughing at us or with us' kind of way.

One way is to lean into the silly quirky 'food is better than sex' kind of thing, and also puns. The puns I like but a really shitty and awful part of myself deep down sometimes finds the food stuff actually kind of. cringey...? Which is stupid and I hate it but once again I feel myself being made fun of by allos and also it's just. kind of shallow and a one-note joke that has been overdone at this point (due to lack of other options) for me personally

The other big way I've seen is to lean into the whole confident rejection schtick. Big 'Nope' word art and the like. And that's fine but it often feels a bit too... misanthropic? for me. I like people!!!!! Or it's very female-focused and feeds too much into that whole ideals of 'women who let men touch them are Tainted' and/or 'women deserve better than men' which I. hate.

so I've been wondering a lot if what I'm wanting - memey/funny aspec-focused stuff that actually feels authentic and at least some tiny amount of original - is even possible?

So far my ideas are. a) make it casual/nonclinical by going so fucking dorky that it wraps around in the other direction. like idk a shirt that says 'Asexuality: the lack of sexual attraction to people of all genders. Hope that helps guys!!! Subscribe for more cool asexuality facts :)' I think if I saw that shirt I'd slightly suspect I was being made fun of but would vibe so hard I'd still like it unironically lmfao

Softening the rejection stuff also could be fun. Like 'I love every person in the world!! (as a friend <3)' or something. more eloquent lol

And just, in general non-sequiturs. It bugs me so inordinately when I see those kinds of posts or whatever that are like 'I'm tired, I'm gay, and I don't pay taxes' (theoretical example) and like, you could just as well have put 'ace' or 'aro' in there!!!!!! But nobody ever things to do that with us :( as always my plan is to make really cool things but only for ace and aro so we can get to be the ones with things for once hahaha but unfortunately I do not know how to make cool things. Anyway the whole idea here is to write things that make people on reddit go 'uhh, why did you feel the need to mention that you don't date, here...?'

And to cap this off I guess I should affirm that yeah, the self-deprecatory stuff CAN be done well... with a very very VERY precise hand. By which I mean that I was permanently psychologically online-ified by ace discourse and have the sensitivity of an earthquake detector to non-obvious slights against aspecs' importance or worth as human beings. But self-deprecating humour is just kind of our generation's style, so. There's some level of 'yeah I like anime and don't date B)' that is JUST the right balance of 'this is not at all what society says you should be proud of' and 'but fuck it society sucks lmfao I love freaks'.

IN CONCLUSION more aspecs should have my exact same sense of humour but actually good at art. or writing text posts. Or literally anything other than complaining on unpopular tumblrs. no actually we need them too so I can follow you and feel faintly not alone occasionally when our opinions happen to line up. Your honour I rest my case.

[mewmewchann]

Making assumptions on you based on your fave DFTH character

Beep boop

I saw someone doing this and thought it was funny so I gave it a shot As you can tell I kinda gave up near the end

(SPOILER WARNING FOR UP TO CHAPTER 3) (and also my terrible sense of humour)

Rantaro Amami

He was your fave in V3 and you thought he deserved better.

You were not prepared for the angst and despair he goes through.

You probably ship him with Haruto. Maybe Kokoro, Idk.

You either detest Jasper, or ship him with Jasper

*slamming table* RANTARO DESERVES BETTER

“I mean, I know that Rantaro and Tsumugi are the only shown survivors of the 52nd killing game, but there just HAS to be more survivors! The writer can’t be sadistic enough to let Rantaro suffer THAT much! Right?...Right?”

~~~

Kokoro Hikari

Oh hello Chiaki and/or Kaede stan

(insert various fan theories here)

No matter what fangan or mainline game you get into, your favourite character is always the sidekick.

You think she’s cute. Idol aesthetic is nice.

You cried with her in chapter 3 when Amai died.

You probably ship her with Rantaro.

You also probably have a billion theories on how she either isn’t the Ultimate Lucky Student or isn’t who she says she is.

You either liked Sayaka Maizono, or hated Sayaka Maizono.

You DEFINITELY relate to her obvious pining crush on Rantaro. Who WOULDN’T love this beautiful man

~~~

Jasper Shion

Hello ell gee bee tee cue community

No matter what fangan or mainline game you get into, your favourite character is always the antag.

(insert even more fan theories here)

You find his twisted personality endearing. How’d he end up this way? Nobody knowssss

You either like Nagito and Ouma, or HATE Nagito and Ouma.

You probably had a heart attack when the perspective switch in chapter 3 happened.

You either ship him with Miko or Rantaro.

You’re probably in the midst of piecing together a fan-theory of what the hell his backstory is from what we’ve learned. (abusive family, ran away from home, something something cousin something something)

Oh and speaking of which,

WHO THE F U C K IS HIS COUSIN

~~~

Tsumugi Shirogane

“Wait, why does she look and act different?”

You’ve probably written out a fan theory on how she somehow isn’t the mastermind.

Idk what else to put here

~~~

Haruto Sora

You’re a theatre kid. ...No, no punchline. You’re a theatre kid.

THERE’S NOOOO BUSINESS LIKE SHOOOOOW BUSINESS LIKE NOOOO BUSINESS I KNOOOOOOW

You either fell in love with him in chapter 1 or in chapter 2.

You ship him with either Rantaro or Sachiko.

Your fave in V3 was probably Kaito.

You probably listened to Rent at some point.

~~~

Sachiko Akahana

Oh hello Maki stan

You’re a sucker for badass women who can kick your ass.

You’re probably interested in her backstory. (in that art where her torso is kinda exposed she has scars on her chest? Where did they come from???)

You probably ship her with Haruto.

Adding onto that, you either shipped Kaimaki in V3, or hated Kaimaki in V3 because of how unrealisticly it progressed and think Haruchiko does it better.

~~~

Miko Tsunade

You want to give him a hug

No matter what fangan or mainline game you get into, your favourite character is always the precious cinnamon roll.

You find his naivete and general mannerisms cute.

You almost definitely ship him with Ayano.

You DEFINITELY cried with him in chapter 3.

You’re interested in his backstory, but you don’t want to push.

BUT SERIOUSLY WHAT THE F U C K HAPPENED TO HIS PARENTS

~~~

Kaoru Odayaka

“Aw c’mon, the cinnamon bun HAS to live until at least chapter 4! Right?...Ri-”

You cried a lot in chapter 1.

You hate Saiko because of both the way he killed him, and why he killed him.

You think he deserved better and needed more screentime.

You want to give him a hug

~~~

Saiko Aishi

You thought he was gonna be the Kirigiri, didn’t you?

Eh whatever he’s still cool

You cried a lot in chapter 1.

“There HAS to be another reason he killed Kaoru! He couldn’t have just killed him for a selfish reason, right?...Right?......Ri-”

Either you actually like him, or you like how he’s written and if you met him irl you’d punch him in the face.

~~~

Yuuma Todoroki

Hello Chihiro stan

You’ve been pushing for “Yuuma best girl” ever since chapter 2 happened.

You either didn’t see the chapter 2 twist coming, or saw it coming and loved her anyway.

You either love Rikona or hate Rikona.

You want to kill Carmine. Don’t worry, all of us do.

You just wanna see her happy ^v^

~~~

Rikona Fumiko

I’m not sure if you’re a lesbian, but you probably want a tsundere girlfriend.

No matter what fangan or mainline game you get into, your favourite character is always the short girl.

You liked her despite the whole “peasant” thing before chapter 2.

“Oh shit she actually has a pretty dark backstory”

You either like Hiyoko or hate Hiyoko.

You probably ship her with Yuuma.

~~~

Amai Akuma

Hello aspec community

You’re an Ibuki stan.

You probably also do digital art and like her because of that.

You think her friendship with Kokoro is cute and that it needed more screentime.

You don’t like Ayano.

~~~

Ahmya Aika

Hello aspec and/or arospec community

You like underrated characters who need more screentime.

“She literally lost an EYE HOW IS SHE OKAY WITH THIS”

You most likely have a similar dry sarcastic sense of humour to her.

Okay, you definitely hate Ayano.

~~~

Ayano Sunako

Sleepy anime girls are best anime girls.

“Oh shit she also has a pretty dark backstory”

You probably also have a fucked-up sleep schedule and relate to her on that.

You either loved chapter 3, or HATED chapter 3.

You DEFINITELY ship her with Miko.

[aro-culture-is]

hello! i just have some thoughts on stuff you said a couple days ago, feel free to disagree (or not even answer this). i’m super curious how you feel about this! you said 'I wouldn’t say “ suggesting aroace as a label was inherently SAM because it specifies sexual and romantic orientation” so much as explicitly saying so, but yes.' i understand what you mean but i don't know if i totally agree? i would say i primarily identify as aro ace... (1/? this is gonna take ages, my biggest apologies)

and i understand that using both aro and ace is very different than identifying as just one (and like you said, using both inherently subscribes to the sam). but at the same time my experiencing ‘neither sexual nor romantic attraction’ doesn’t feel ‘neither sexual nor romantic’ it is all one thing to me. like i hate framing aspec identities in terms of a ‘lack’ but to fully explain what i’m trying to say: i don’t feel a separate ‘lack’ of romantic and sexual attraction, it is all one ‘lack.' (2)

maybe something to help explain is while i use the term ‘aro ace’ for myself i mostly just refer to myself as aspec? like i like having a term that does not require me to separate out attraction into two different types or align myself with one side of the sam. the fact that i don’t consider myself to fall on the a-spectrum (or, i’m on one end of it) means this isn’t my core identity label (if asked i say my identity is ‘aro ace’ for specificity’s sake) but most of the time i just use aspec. (3)

like in my mind i can kinda envision 3 axes of non-sam identities: ace-only, aro-only, and general lack-of-attraction only?  aroace is what i have because of the sam and it’s the one i use generally but if there were a term that described this third axis that did not use the sam that’s the one i would use (again, aspec does the job here!  and maybe aspec is the answer for me). (4)

and maybe that is not non-sam enough and i’m missing the spirit of adopting a non-sam label!  perhaps the point is one aspect of the sam overriding the importance of the other ‘part’ of the sam label and having a way of specifying a general lack of attraction is too rooted in the ideas of sam for it to truly be a non-sam identity. (5)

also idk where to put this sentence but not to mention that people who might fall under the ‘aro ace’ identity tend to face pushback from people who do subscribe to the sam (usually for just identifying as ace, which is perceived as (and often criticized for) misrepresenting the ace identity/community). (6)

anyway this was all over the place (+ super long) but your post got me thinking about this and i’m super interested in your thoughts! feel free to decide i’m a pretentious asshole and disregard me entirely- i don’t even necessarily think i’m ‘right’, this is just me musing on how non-sam identities interact with the aroace identity. and as a non-sam aro i’m sure you’ve spent tons of time thinking about non-sam stuff so there’s probably lots here that’s missing the mark a bit. anyway thanks!(7/7)

bold line here so people know where my reply is lol

RIP me I typed out a reply and then tumblr suddenly decided me pressing backspace = go back a page. time to retype it all!

i understand that using both aro and ace is very different than identifying as just one (and like you said, using both inherently subscribes to the sam)

yes! I forget if I remembered to include it at the beginning of all this (like, the ask before the one you’re describing? I think? or maybe the one before that?) but I at least intended to include a note that I was excluding this position for simplicity. I didn’t feel comfortable trying to explain what an identity that I only knew of in theory might feel like. I super didn’t want to overstep and try to place y’all without seeing the personal piece.

i can kinda envision 3 axes of non-sam identities: ace-only, aro-only, and general lack-of-attraction only?  aroace is what i have because of the sam and it’s the one i use generally but if there were a term that described this third axis that did not use the sam that’s the one i would use

sounds right to me, overall. admittedly, having a different term than “aromantic” is the only reason I use the phrasing “non-SAM” aro usually, and while other terms exist this one hits better than the others to me and has more of a history. I’d describe more of my emotions on that, but tbh emotions are hard and I’d rather not right now. (and oh can I hear that Therapist “Hmm” noise right now, the one always followed by “and why do you think that is?”)

people who might fall under the ‘aro ace’ identity tend to face pushback from people who do subscribe to the sam (usually for just identifying as ace, which is perceived as (and often criticized for) misrepresenting the ace identity/community)

:/ that’s shitty. when I first joined aspec tumblr, I wouldn’t hesitate to say at all that the two IDs I saw the most rep for was aroaces and non-sam aces, though it was typically just phrased as asexual. this was, perhaps, very late 2012 into early 2013? but in fall of 2014 the exclus attacked and tbh I see more of the aspec community and queer community holding onto some of their takes than I have the energy to deal with. this definitely sounds like one of those holdovers (ie, they attacked for using and not using the SAM because they just didn’t want any aspec people at all; 100% could see the non-SAM attacks sticking more because this was also when I saw the boom of people using the SAM for alloace IDs)

this is just me musing on how non-sam identities interact with the aroace identity.

it’s a pretty solid musing, I can say that at least. I wouldn’t feel comfortable labeling it as a non-SAM ID for everyone who feels like aroace/aspec/no attractoin as a single ID fits them best, but I can definitely see your feelings about being non-SAM feeling similar to mine.

as a non-sam aro i’m sure you’ve spent tons of time thinking about non-sam stuff 

*nervous laughter*

but really though I struggle to describe my feelings so debates or discussions like this are most of my time spent thinking about non-sam stuff. I’m just in the position of being a “well-known” non-sam aro right now, and I try to answer things to the best of my ability. there’s not much of a community to get agreements or disagreements from so... I just do as I’ve always done. I just do my best to be honest with what I know and don’t know, what my thoughts and feelings are, and where I’m coming from. I don’t claim to be an expert in my identity so much as shouting into the void in hopes that the void will shout back.

fyi though that I’m also @just-aro for non-sam aro related things and some of my more general (non-submission) content.

[marinsawakening]

don’t reblog this maybe but this intracommunity aro/aspec discourse has really highlighted how my experiences with being aroace differ from the majority of the aroace community and it makes me. uncomfy.

(I was gonna do the following section in the tags but it got too long so. enjoy the rambly post I guess.)

It’s so weird too??? In almost all ways, I’m the most stereotypical aroace to have ever aroaced; I’m sex- and romance repulsed, I do not want either sexual or romantic relationships, I want a qpr (I realize that wanting a qpr is not the norm outside of aro communities, but this assumption does kind of tend to exist within aro communities, although from what I’ve seen that has certainly died down), I found out I was ace in my late teens and figured out I was aro a year or two after that, I do not nor have I ever experienced any type of romantic or sexual attraction (aka I’m not gray-ace or gray-aro), I’m not an oriented aroace, etc. 

Unlike with my trans/nb identity I tend to actually relate to the wider aroace community; it’s by far the easiest queer identity I have because I generally fall within the parameters of what’s ‘expected’ of an aroace 99% of the time. There’s really only two major exceptions:

I do not find it difficult to distinguish between my aromanticism and my asexuality. They are not the same for me. I see my asexuality and aromanticism as two separate identities that just so happen to coincide. 

I consider my aromanticism to be a LOT more important than my asexuality. Really I’m more aro(ace) than aroace if you get what I mean.

And BOY are those differences highlighted by the recent discourse.

Like, I know that to aroaces who already feel alienated by the aroace community this must seem eye-roll-worthy, and I acknowledge how lucky I am that I (mostly) managed to feel safe and comfortable in the aroace community (albeit it more on the aro side of things than on the ace side), but like??? I’m really unused to feeling so alienated from the aroace community and it’s uhhhh unfun.

But honestly in this discourse? I just cannot at all relate to or get behind the aroace community’s approach to it. I don’t feel threatened by the idea that we might have a complete separation from the ace community. As a matter of fact, that’s what I want. If it were up to me and I didn’t have to take the feelings of anyone else into account, I’d want a complete separation between the ace and aro communities. I’d want to maintain strong ties between the communities, obviously, but I’m so fucking tired of being grouped together with the ace community. I want the aro community to be able to stand on its own as the ace community’s equal, not their younger sibling who still needs guidance. I want us to be our own thing without relying on the ace community at all. I want a complete separation of asexuality and aromanticism. 

I acknowledge, however, that this is likely not practical. There are too many aroaces tying us together, and we share too much history. It would be unfair to aroaces who cannot separate their aromanticism and asexuality and/or just don’t want to choose like that to just implement a complete schism without regard for consequences. I acknowledge that. I still want it.

It’s not that I hate the ace community. I really don’t. I honestly don’t feel as bitter towards it as a lot of the aro community seems to. I really think that the ace community is one of the most welcoming communities I’ve ever been in; they helped me understand my asexuality in a way that lifted me up and made me secure in it, and I’m really thankful to them for helping me through that vulnerable time. I think that it’s amazing what the ace community has managed to achieve in such little time; barely a decade ago, we were nothing, and now, we are steadily on our way to becoming a widely recognized sexuality, with well-organized groups and clear objectives. It’s seriously impressive.

At the same time, however, they royally screwed up my aro education, to the point where even though I was very, VERY clearly aromantic I was extremely hesitant to adopt the label, and it wasn’t until I actually managed to get involved in the aro community via a mutual that I actually started embracing it; in fact, before I talked to that mutual, I was really only peripherally aware of the existence of an aro community. I did not understand what a qpr was. I did not understand how the aromanticism was a spectrum, or know any aro identities outside of aro, gray-aro, and demiro (it was thanks to another mutual that I got off my initial high horse about greyro identities and actually started researching them with an open mind, by the way. I’m still definitely not perfect and consider them to be my largest blind spot in the aro community, but at least I’m trying to learn). I was not aware of any aspects of aro culture, or at least they didn’t register (white ring, arrows, etc. etc). And those were really just minor things.

The big kicker for me is that, honestly, my experience with the way the ace community treated aromanticism was. kinda different from what most aros seem to have experienced. Maybe it’s the people I interacted with, the blogs I followed, idk, but whatever it is, I got the impression that my aromantic traits were part of my asexuality. I never really felt like the ace community was pushing the ‘aces can love!’ message too hard; instead, I got the opposite. I got posts joking about how aces don’t get crushes. About how aces are annoyed with romantic subplots. I got essays written where the author stated that they don’t feel romantic attraction because they are asexual. I got posts about how characters who said “I don’t understand/want romance” are ace. I got ace activists who talked about being aroace without ever mentioning the ‘aro’ part, or who mentioned it in passing at best, and who often still positioned themselves as authorities on aromanticism despite that. All the time that I’ve spent in the ace community, and I consistently saw asexuality conflated with aromanticism. I still see it every time I go into the ace community. It’s why I’m not active in it anymore. 

As a result, I did not understand the impact that my aromanticism had my life, or even that I was aromantic at all; I got the impression that all my aro traits could be ascribed to my asexuality. As a result, I spent a long time identifying as a non-SAM-using ace, then as an aroace who strongly favored their asexuality, and then an aroace who didn’t think their aromanticism could be separated from their asexuality. But, as I have stated earlier in this essay, I can separate them. Very easily, even. I just didn’t have the proper tools yet to identify my aromanticism. This was also the reason why I thought my asexuality was more important; I didn’t have the proper tools to recognize my aromanticism, and with that, the effect it had on my daily life.

(Disclaimer: I’m obviously not saying that all aroaces who consider their aromanticism to be part of their asexuality, or who can’t distinguish between them, or who favor their asexuality are going to have the same experience that I did. Plenty of aroaces won’t. I’m just talking about a personal experience.)

The ace community screwed up my aro education by failing to recognize that aromanticism is not a facet of asexuality. While the ace community loves to remind everyone that aces can still feel romantic attraction, they are blindsided to the fact that aros can still feel sexual attraction. That aromanticism is not inherently tied to asexuality, and that the experiences of aroaces who cannot seperate their aromanticism and their asexuality aren’t universal in the aro community by any means. 

I can forgive the ace community for not educating me on things coined by or primarily used by aros, such as qpr’s, aro culture elements, and greyro identities. They are not required to keep up with every step that our community takes. I cannot forgive them for failing to provide me with basic information on aromanticism other than the acknowledgement that it existed, for consistently conflating aromanticism and asexuality, for failing to give me the proper resources to figure out my aro identity, when we are supposed to be ‘connected’ communities. 

TL;DR: my aro education got severely fucked up by the assumption that all aros are asexual, and if it hadn’t been for a complete fluke of striking up a conversation with someone who happened to be involved in the aro community, I might have never been able to properly appreciate or recognize my aromanticism. 

You can see how these experiences kind of overlap with those of allo aros. Obviously, they’re not the same, like at all, but the fact of the matter is that I can relate to the bitterness that allo aros feel towards the ace community. Often a lot more than I can relate to aroaces’ feelings towards the ace community, be they negative or positive. 

And because of those experiences, you can see why I’m distrustful of letting the ace community stay intrinsically connected to the aro community. They are larger, and therefore have a louder voice and more reach; if we, as aros, don’t grow on our own, outside of the ace community’s shadow, I’m genuinely unsure of whether we’ll ever be able to reach our full potential. Because as it stands, the majority of aros will need to go through the ace community first, and I think they’ve sufficiently proven to be wholly inadequate in providing aros resources to figure out their aromanticism. And frankly? I don’t want the ace community to be the primary educators on aromanticism. That’s a recipe for disaster no matter what. I want the aro community to be the go-to place for information on aromanticism, and that can only happen if we are as loud, as big as the ace community. 

I don’t relate to a lot of aroaces’ torn feelings between the ace community and the aro community, because in my case, that choice was made a long time ago: it’s the aro community. It will always be the aro community. While I’m thankful towards the ace community for sheltering me when I was vulnerable, and while I will always stand with them if they need to fight against assholes or need to spread awareness, and while I’ll probably never really drop the ace label and will occasionally participate in ace-centric discussions, they are not my priority, because I was never theirs. There is no love lost between me and the ace community. My aromanticism is the part of me that is most prominent in day-to-day life, and it’s what I consider to be the most important because of that; the aro community is tiny still, struggling to gain recognition and find a direction, and it needs my support more than the ace community ever did. 

Furthermore, in this discussion, I strongly believe that the aro community needs to prioritize the feelings of allo aros, and other non-asexual aros and aros who do not feel comfortable in the ace community for other reasons.  While we aroaces are definitely important and should obviously have a say in the way the community is heading (I mean. Duh. We’re aro), I’m uncomfortable with aroaces taking charge of community conversations because I feel like that’s just a repeat of what’s been happening in the wider aspec community for a long, long time: ace people taking charge, leaving less-recognized aros in the dust. Obviously, a large part of that is due to my own personal experiences with aces talking over aros for the majority of my aro education, and I’m (perhaps irrationally) scared that the same thing is going to happen here. But a large part of it is also due to the fact that, as is, aroaces are the largest voice in the aro community; this is an undeniable fact. It would be easy, way too easy, for us to unknowingly drown out the voices of allo aros, when we should be amplifying them and giving them a place of honor. The ace community’s problems with aromanticism affect non-asexual aros the most and in unique ways, and I feel like they should be leading the discussion surrounding it no matter what, really.

But I feel kind of like a traitor to aroace people because of this. My needs for the aro community obviously don’t align with that of other aroaces; I’d be willing to let relationships with the ace community burn entirely if it meant securing a spot for the aro community, which would obviously fuck over aroaces who DO need the ace community and want to participate in it, and aroaces who just simply aren’t capable of separating their aromanticism from their asexuality. I just fundamentally cannot relate to those needs and the feelings that come along with it. I just can’t. 

As a result, aside from reblogging some posts, I’ve been mostly quiet about my personal opinions on the topic. I do not feel like I’m the right person to be involved in this discourse; as an aroace, I have too much emotional baggage surrounding the ace community to advocate for their needs and I have been absent from the ace community for too long to have a good grasp on it anyway; and as an aromantic plain and simple, I do not feel like I should be leading this charge anyway because of my asexuality. While I find it bad to split the aro community in terms like that (I don’t believe that this discourse is a simple matter of aroaces vs. allo aros; it’s much more complicated than that, and I’ve seen aroaces and allo aros supporting each other, and of course there’s also non-SAM-aros and greyros/grayaces to consider in this discourse, which I haven’t really seen come up yet aside from a handful of posts), it really does often feel like this is the split around which the discourse is centered. And it sucks to not easily be able to identify with either ‘side’, and to lose the security I thought I had in the (aro-leaning side of the) aroace community. 

This is probably the last I’m going to say on this intracommunity issue on my own; I’ll be reblogging posts and watching it go down, but I don’t feel like I’m in any way equipped to really have meaningful say in this discourse. I might change my mind later on, but as of now, this is where I stand: confused, mainly.

[fandom-hoarder]

I'm not really a fan of Cordell/Gerri rn.

The first accidental kiss in s1 I liked. The forehead touch I loved. It was an emotional moment and felt natural. I wasn't necessarily looking forward to a love triangle thing, but the prospect of it intrigued me for how it would show more interesting tension and develop character relationships. But since Hoyt died, there hasn't really been any buildup between them to make me feel anything for their hookup now.

We barely saw them grieve together over Hoyt--which would've had potential! They seem to mostly have grieved separately. We're told they're friends and we do see Gerri being supportive and doing family stuff but I don't feel anything pulling them inevitably together romantically.

And I'm kinda still sus about Gerri hiding something, idk. I don't fully trust her.

But mostly... idk is this aspec problems again? I was really disappointed by how their 'getting together' went. The thing when he went to her house and told her was kinda cute, but I didn't feel enough leadup. They needed more slow burn, but instead they had a separation--which works better with more established relationships tbh. You could say it's the downside of being an ensemble cast show, and I don't want a lot of focus on romantic relationships, so ostensibly I should be happy it wasn't a focus.

But...I get nothing out of a sex scene for a relationship I have little to no feelings for. And Walker is going the typical route of having regular sexy scenes so... it'd be nice to emotionally connect to fucking one of them at least instead of awkwardly waiting for it to pass and get back to the show. Sex scenes for me might as well be commercial breaks.

But also narratively I'm like *squints* this was way too soon to hook them up for them to be endgame, so they'll end up breaking up--probably over a plotline, which is fine. I'm just so lukewarm about it I kinda hope it's soon and I don't like that feeling. I don't like looking at Gerri, a character I'm interested in learning about, and thinking: "break up with her. 👿"

I would've liked him to just be a single dad for awhile and toe the line with Gerri with looks and doing domestic things with the fam without actually being a couple. Would've liked Stella and August to get ~vibes~ and have eye conversations about it and wonder aloud how long they're going to tiptoe around their feelings.🤷‍♀️

All that being said, my pairing(s) will never be canon so I'll be rolling with whatever happens in canon anyway.

[Speculation part]

After Boundaries, the whole discussion in the truck about when to tell and how that communication went...I just really don't see them making it far. She had a boundary about making it official with everyone and Cordell was too eager puppy to understand. It really feels to me like he's jumping in with both feet without stopping to think about consequences or how coersive that is to Gerri. Which. Is certainly a thing people do. A very Cordell thing to do. But it had me yelling at the screen.😅

Like. Even before she said "dolly" she had just said they should take their time and see how they feel first, and then he's like "😃😃😃😃 we should make an announcement to everyone at the family dinner!!"

Boy, I would slap you.

And one more comment: their relationship better not mean even fewer scenes with Cordi and Trey, gdi.

[cantskank]

today i was going through it a bit, emotions-wise

so first of all:  (fuck your fucking attitude/how could you be so fucking rude?/you look at me like when girls are jealous)

i didn’t get any sleep last night (like i stayed up literally all night, then had my remote classroom discussion period where i didn’t contribute a single thing, then had my meeting with my advisor, then passed out for like 3 hours, then had “lunch” at 3:00).  i was already like physically a wreck.

so early early morning i saw a post from someone i follow on my actual tumblr basically about not using queer? or tagging it as the q slur or whatever.  and it’s an entirely moot point because this person doesn’t follow me and (prolly) never will but it just really threw me.  it seems like it’s not for sketchy reasons- p sure they identify as an nb lesbian so nothing like terfy going on, i think it’s from like family related trauma which is totally understandable!  like i really wanna have a lot of compassion for people who feel that way for that reason (and no compassion for terfy reasons). 

i think for asexuals in particular there is a lot of stake in how acceptable the term queer is.  like, i quite literally cannot fit in the “lgbt community.”  i can probably fit in the lgbt+, lgbtq, lgbtq+ communities; there’s probably room for me there; and i definitely fit in the lgbtqia+ community (assuming they don’t have the a for some ally fuckery) BUUUT queer is definitely a term that has always felt comfortable to me, even before i knew i was aro ace (but knew something was off with me, sexuality-wise.  not that i vocally used queer before id’ing as aro ace but it was always a viable option for me and if i had been asked prior to learning about aspec orientations i might have said “queer in some way”).  and i think a lot of aspec people feel the same way.  as aspec people, excluding any allo orientations or gender minority, just as people who by some variety feel an absence of attraction (as laid out by society as a whole as “normal” attraction(s)) we are not, by definition, part of the lgbt community.  but i think there’s very little issue calling ourselves queer based on being aspec.  and terfs and exclusionists know this, and that is literally the reason they insist on queer being a slur.

also in defense of queer as a term: it is literally reclaimed!!  meaning, the act of calling oneself queer is done in order to take back the term from the people who wanted it to hurt you with it.  “queer is a slur” yes that is literally why it has been chosen to represent the community!  “queer as a term has been weaponized against me so personally and intimately that i cannot associate with it” is maybe closer to what people want to say, since “queer is a slur” is like yes?  that’s why people use it?

and like the thing is it’s been used, literally the first time i heard “queer is a slur don’t use it” was in my last year of university (~2017)- the same university where the organization for lgbtq+/queer students was literally “queer (name of university)”.  i first learned about queer as a reclaimed term in 2011!  and there was an acknowledgement of “yes this was/has been a slur, but it’s reclaimed” but absolutely not “this was a slur and it’s still a slur so always fucking tag for it since apparently reclaiming a word only goes so far as the people who care to reclaim it, everyone else gets to insist it is still a slur and has a negative power over people.”  okay that’s probably not fair but it just feels like backwards progress.  and i did just look it up and i did only go to wikipedia but wikipedia says it’s been used in a reclaimed sense since the late 80s (i would have guessed sometime in the 90s but i knew it wasn’t a new thing).  how! can! this! still! be! a! contentious! issue!

(i mean we all know why it’s so popular now, it’s all terfs.  and again, there are legitimate reasons to not like the term but i think the main reason it has any traction is because of terfs and that is just fucking depressing.)

so like, there’s a lot in terms of how acceptable and valid my identity is that gets tied up in this question, and to see someone i really look up to reject it really threw me.  i was going to throw something in here about how i had a revelation that my moon in my 4th house meant i rely a lot on community acceptance and validation for my emotional state (and my internal acceptance of my own feelings- so like i can only validate my feelings if i feel a sense of community acceptance/consensus/belonging).  then i checked my chart and i misremembered.  my moon is actually in my 8th house (in gemini) which is still watery community vibes but 8th house is a lot more interpersonal i feel.  still sourcing a lot of validation from others, lots of emotional interdependency i guess.  and i just checked the cafeastrology blurb, and i do agree with it and don’t think my interpretation is too much of a stretch.  and to me it explains my interest in partnership/a qpr down the line, as well as my emphasis on emotional intimacy and a bit of platonic jealousy.

anyway, so i was kinda emotionally thrown by that.  then in dear prudence’s livestream today, the first q was about disliking the term queer.  danny and grace are both trans so i was like nervous the “real” queer/lgbt people were going to kinda dismiss queer as a term but it was good!  they did really emphasize how common that viewpoint is amongst terfs (a reference to “conservative lesbians” as well)  also sidenote they are both beautiful humans.

anyway clearly i have lots of feelings about this but i want to get to bed so here’s a lightning round of the rest of the reasons i’ve been feeling vaguely shitty and mostly just overwhelmingly negative:

still stuck inside (duh)

also team pinata privated their videos because of online harassment, dissociadid is also taking a break and i’m just like really worried for both of them.  like again, not feeling stably good and that is hard to see.

haven’t really been keeping in touch with people which means i’m feeling very isolated as well as very guilty for not reaching out to them, and also like “this is why you don’t have any friends.  you deserve all the blame for having basically no one in your life, a thing which has become abundantly clear when you’re stuck at home and like people aren’t reaching out to you.”

someone who i have been in contact with (basically all my contact with) is my mom, which i feel like isn’t very healthy.  and she’s probably doing it to check in on me which is really nice.  but right now i’m struggling with questions about kinda who i am and what i want to do (like with my life) and i think i struggle with these questions 1 because i’m in fucking the middle of nowhere and hate my living situation and hate my life (this is really probably the biggest part of it, i feel completely hopeless and should probably be seeing a therapist because i would feel very unsurprised if i’m severely depressed) but also somewhat 2 i’ve always tried to live up to my parents’ (and let’s face it, mostly my mom’s since dad was not v available) expectations and would do literally anything to make them “not mad at me” which is a very juvenile turn of phrase that i think shows how like entrenched this is for me.  i am just really used to ignoring my own signals in favor of their approval?  so like i probably don’t fully know what i want.  and being in grad school (which like i’m a year and a half in, this is not a new situation so idk why it’s hitting now) is the 1st time i haven’t been dependent on them??  which is a big like “thing” for me.  i always felt i couldn’t be super confrontational with them because i was always supposed to be grateful for everything they did??  so like you can’t complain about how i’m talking to you because i’m taking the time out of my day to give you a ride.  or you can’t talk to me with “tone” because we’re feeding you and you should be grateful.  and like i was always trying to be less dependent on them for that, but if i did i wasn’t “accepting help”, i was “always trying to do everything on your own”, i was “pushing them away”.  anyway, in university they were paying my tuition, in my year off i was living at home.  and i’m super privileged to have that, and i’m unbelievably thankful.  but, now i’m truly on my own and i’m trying to figure out what that means.  and it’s hard when i’m constantly talking to people who bring me back there.  also i worry i am “too okay” with talking to them now because they’re like actually nicer now?  so like i’m ignoring my own valid feelings from the past which i didn’t feel like i had the space to acknowledge as valid because i was always trying to “be good” and “make it up to them” for like disagreeing with them?  and now that they don’t have a hold on me in terms of like living with them- now that i have options- they are nice so i don’t reexamine the conciliatory ways i behaved towards them when i was younger?  idk.  it’s tough.

also had a meeting with my supervisor today re: my crappy paper that we’re trying to make less crappy.  it went like mostly fine- like she didn’t tear me to pieces.  last time i met with her was about a proposal and she started the meeting with “i’m questioning how much you want to be here” which is just like really hard to hear.  so i didn’t hear that this time, which is good (great).  some of the stuff when she was explaining seemed like aimed toward a super basic level and it’s like is that how slow she thinks i am??  like.  i know i’m probably not smart enough to be successful at the thing i’m going for which is fucking terrifying.  a year and a half in, i feel just way too dumb and idk what to do except just keep trying??  idk we’ll see.  then she just sent an e-mail about like compiling the literature and i slack way too much on that and idk like we both kinda know that?  so i’m a paranoid freak and i always read so much into everything but getting that was like “i’m trying to remind you that you’re behind on this and a failure!!  but not addressing it because you’ve cried a couple times and so i don’t want to give feedback that might be hurtful.”  like lol.  i am good if you give me super harsh feedback.  probably it’s better.  i don’t deserve to really be handled super gently like that.  it’s okay if you want to be more no nonsense about it, i can handle it.  at least with that i know you’re mad at me??  as opposed to being nice?  then i can’t tell if you’re genuine or if you’re trying a more passive-aggressive approach.  i’m a bit dead inside, i can deal if you want to get your disappointment in my failures off your chest.

also my just severe difficulty with no order or routine.  i’ve been wondering for like over a year now whether i have like executive function disorder??  it could also just be the being in quarantine where everyone has trouble focusing.  i do relate to a lot of the things i see about it.  i really should just be going to a therapist.  probably once i’m off my parents’ health insurance (okay i’m dependent on them in that way, though i can also opt for the school’s insurance) so they don’t know/wouldn’t be on the hook for them (and feel entitled in some ways to know about that.  i really really really don’t want to tell them.  like, anything)

wow this is a fucked up amount of text.  goodnight.