#zuko has an abusive parent like ok who doesnt

[inutaffy]

getting hate for this but idc. voltron went through so much

LMAOOOOOO ZUKO WAS WINNING ACTUALLY BUT OK 😭😭 also keith is Losing Miserably glad ur giving him a chance even tho bro is Not emo to me....he just doesnt have the vibes. like the characteristics are there ok but he's just Not It for me. not enough anguish (yes ik he's been thru so much its Not Enough)

keith been through more than zuko there i said it

[iapislazuli]

Hey can you infodump on me on how you think Azula redemption would go? Seems interesting

well i know that one of the show’s writers has somewhat elaborated on it already... but since it never canonically happened i can go hogwild 

the comic series which takes place post-ATLA shows azula was put in a mental institution rather than in jail like ozai, which makes sense since shes, yknow, a 14 year old who’s been abused by her parents, so i think a redemption arc would start there (note: i am aware the comics continue to well on 3 years after the cartoon, but im going to pretend all this happens p much immediately after the series as if it were in season 4) 

also dis got real long so im puttin it under a cut i dont know if cuts still dont work on mobile if they dont im so sorry but anyways... da redemption ....  this is mostly just me dumping thoughts and ideas and not super intricate or well worded just roll with it. OK 

well the entire concept of her redemption i think would be, that things get worse before they can get better. azula is institutionalized. initially, she has to be restrained and sedated most of the time and i think zuko would realize this is .... a terrible way to live, he doesnt want his sister to have to spend the rest of her life locked up and drugged just to protect her from herself. i dont know how easy it would be for aang to energy bend again.... but SOMEHOW he does it and azula wakes up, unrestrained and completely sober for the first time in AGES and shes like YES time to escape but then she tries to bend and she CANT 

i dont know how long itd take for her to be willing to go out and about, though. she certainly wouldnt be trusting zuko or any of the gaang any time soon though, it would take... a lot of coaxing and slow progress for her to want to do anything. because like i said in my other post, bending shaped azula’s entire life. her power and her mind were the two things she valued most and now she’s lost both of those. like how zuko felt during his redemption arc, she would feel as though she’s been stripped of everything she knows, it would be terrifying for her. 

and not to be like “my favorite characters should be friends” BUT i think toph would be the first (besides zuko ofc) to offer azula some kind of metaphorical hand. the two of them would work really well together. toph’s brutal honesty could shut down azula’s catastrophizing real quick whenever it pops up. and i think azula would appreciate that toph wouldnt be trying to hold her hand or belittle her. with toph, azula learns respect in a new way, respect based in trust and genuine appreciation, as opposed to the respect she learned from fear (and in turn inflicted on others) from ozai. and toph appreciates that respect. like azula, she’s not looking for people who will treat her like she’s weak or incapable of things. they can also both relate about having parents with very specific expectations who didn’t really love them. 

thats pretty much as far as i got in terms of super intricate detail. ui just want... my favorites to be friends. Dats all. Azula redemption pls 

[ravenaveira]

Okay I get why you might not like Alisha from ToZ, but you hate /Luke/?????? I cannot understand. Why do you hate Luke I gotta know

Ok Im gonna be honest and admit Im a little biased when it comes to Luke, and when I say little I really mean ALOT lol I’ll explain

First off he started off pretty bad but I could already tell he was going to develop as his journey went on and I was right, I was really proud of his development and growth. But then he got all those people killed, ignoring everyone who tried to warn him because of his arrogance which caused everyone to hate him for a short time and rightfully so, hell I was pissed at him still even AFTER they forgave him.

But after he cut his hair and really resolved to change and actually put in the effort, I started to like him again, I really admired his growth and that he acknowledged he screwed up instead of continuing to make excuses for it, he effed up, he realized his mistake and took responsibility for it and worked hard to change. It reminded me somewhat of Zuko’s redemption arc in Avatar with how he kept messing up at first but then realized where he went wrong and did his best to change, I respect that.

So how did I grow to dislike Luke after all that? well as I said Im very biased against him for one reason and one reason only.

Asch

Now from the very beginning we know theres more to Asch than meets the eye, theres a reason he and Luke look so much alike but we just dont know what yet, then when we find out things only get worse from there as we slowly find out his backstory and what happened to him. It was so bad it actually made me dislike Luke because he essentially took literally EVERYTHING from him, although unknowingly the fact is he still stole Asch’s entire life.

His fiance, his kingdom, his best friend, his parents, even his name, literally everything. Asch was kidnapped and forced to go through agonizing experiments to create that replica Luke that they used to replace him and take over his life while Van continued to use and abuse Asch for his own gain. And what happens when Asch finally escapes and makes his way home? he sees his family and friends all moved on happily with his replica, that was beyond sad and hard to watch.

So where my bias comes in is that I like Asch more than I like Luke, why? because Asch is the original and he also just has a way more interesting backstory and personality compared to Luke who pretty much had it made his entire life and took it for granted, replica or not Luke still had it far easier than Asch did. His only real struggle was trying to have his own identity while Asch was trying to cope with having his stolen, which was a far more compelling dilemma in my opinion that I felt could have used more focus.

There was even one point in the game where everyone was against Luke and spent time with Asch in his place for a while and it just felt awkward, Guy and Natalia were originally friends with him, not Luke but at the end of the day, Guy sides with Luke and basically ditched Asch for the copy, which Asch even says he expected him to do. Even so, Guy siding with Luke over him clearly hurt him since that WAS originally his friend, even Jade points it out.

Yes its understandable since he spent more time with Luke after Asch was taken but at the same time it just felt like nobody really gave much thought to Asch’s situation and that somehow Luke was just far more important than Asch even though he’s the original whose life was stolen from him. To me, Asch was just treated beyond unfair and he just accepted it because he felt like he was inferior and had no place with them now. Just the charred remains of who he once was.

Natalia at least made the effort to reach out to Asch more than anyone else did and understood him even though he pushed her away, at least she was the only one who truly tried to console and reach out to him over the ordeal whether he accepted it or not. Luke did too but to be honest thats the LAST person he wanted to listen to for obvious reasons.

Yeah Asch pushed them away but nobody but Luke and Natalia actually took the time to see things from his perspective and tried to empathize with him, he was literally all alone through everything so its understandable why he has such a hard time with ‘teamwork’.

His attitude, like Lukes, is completely understandable when you look at their upbringing. Luke was royalty and behaved like an arrogant spoiled brat because of his privilege and lack of knowledge about the real world, so him being an asshole at first makes sense.

Asch was cold and impersonal at first because he was being groomed to be the ruler of Kimlasca but was also treated coldly by his father, then he was kidnapped at a very young age and experimented on to create a replica that completely highjacked his life and took all his friends and family away from him. So for him to be cold, distant, apathetic and rude makes total sense given what he’s been through, why wouldnt he be resentful towards Luke especially but everyone else too? he felt abandoned and forgotten and worst of all replaced, who wouldnt feel bitterness after that? in many ways, he even felt inferior to Luke which only rubbed salt in the wound.

But even with all of that, ALL OF THAT, I still liked both but just liked Asch more, however, something happened that made it impossible for me to like Luke anymore and forever hate him for it.

Asch dies, and Luke lives, that is unforgivable.

Now listen, I know it was foreshadowed but there were several things that happened that made this impossible to accept. Starting with the fact that near the end of the game all the replicas were supposed to die, keyword ALL so that includes Luke, so it was also foreshadowed that Luke would die as well. Asch from the side effects of the replication and Luke because replicas tend to be unstable and fall apart eventually which is why formicry was banned, yet in the end, only Asch dies and in one of the worst ways possible

He lived in constant pain and suffering both physical and emotional and now he dies in excruciating pain and suffering too, why? protecting Luke, and not just that, but from an experiment he never signed up for and was forced to go through, that was beyond unfair and unforgivable.

His whole life he has lost and sacrificed everything, EVERYTHING because of Luke, not only could he not live his own life but he couldnt even die his own death either. Luke got to live his life and got to escape his death and he’s the friggin replica who was supposed to die with all the rest, make that make sense to me.

The original dies but the fake lives even though its said replicas are unstable and doomed to fall apart eventually and we see it happen to every single human replica except for Luke, I just cant accept that.

They even have the nerve to leave the ending ambiguous where it sort of seems like Luke and Asch fuse and its left open-ended where you could assume its Asch or Luke but we all know its Luke because he goes directly to Tear in the end which doesnt make sense for Asch to do if it was him so Im just…UGH!!!!

So you wanna know why I dont like Luke? because he got to have everything Asch lost, he took everything from him and Asch literally gets nothing in the end, everybody moved on, Asch couldnt go back, Asch was slowly dying anyway from the experiment and Luke just gets to have everything in the end. He stole Asch’s life and in the end, he gets to keep it while Asch just dies protecting his copy, I just cannot accept that.

Its just unfair that Asch had to give up everything and Luke has to give up nothing, he really doesnt lose anything in the end, only Asch does. I know that sounds weird and a little sadistic but it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth ya know? the original dies having everything taken from him while the replica lives on with virtually everything? did Asch really get anything besides suffering in the end? no, thats where my hatred stems from.

So yeah my hatred for Luke stems from my bias for Asch, its not so much that Luke did something BAD that made him unlikeable but more like the ending the creators chose made me dislike him because I found it unfair and wanted Asch to have a happy ending too after all he’s been through but in the end, he dies because of something he had no control over and was forced to go through while Luke gets to go on living happily with everyone in the life Asch will never have, that is unacceptable.

So yea sorry this is so long but I wanted to go over how my admiration and respect for Luke turned to hate, its really of no fault of his own but the ending itself. I also hate that the fandom prefers Luke over Asch or even hate him when he’s the victim of so much but eh to each their own, but that just saddens me that even amongst the fandom Asch gets the short end of the stick while Luke gets all the praise.

Long story short this game just destroyed me lol which is why its my favorite Tales of games in the entire series despite my hatred for the ending, it was such a rollercoaster of emotion and pain that it really stands out from all the other Tales of in the series and IMO Tales of the Abyss is the best out of them all thus far and will always remain one of my top favorite games of all time. It’s such an underated gem.