#you wouldn't even have to change much about the arrow's characterization

[moodyseal]

*wakes up in a cold sweat* what if the Arrow of Dodona was just an hallucination and Apollo has been basically talking to his subconscious for the whole duration of TOA

[bthump]

The adonis opinions have been really interesting. Do you think if guts hadn’t killed him but still gotten injured, was chased and barely escaped, and after all that heard griffith’s speech…do you think that would change the way he perceives the speech? Like essentially griffith is still saying he doesn’t think he has friends, how different would guts’ reaction be?

I think it would change it a little for sure. Like imo the whole point of Guts killing Adonis, narratively, was so that when he heard the speech he'd spiral about it.

Though imo if the assassination was kind of messy and Guts ended up getting shot with an arrow and hiding in a sewer for a while he wouldn't be feeling great after and would probably still have a bad reaction to the speech. But maybe rather than completely internalizing it he'd be more inclined to question Griffith? Like, maybe he'd brood for a while and turn it over in his head, but instead of bottling it all up, next time they're alone together and he gets the chance maybe he'd be like "hey what's the deal with that shit you said the other day? Am I just another soldier to you or not?"

In terms of pure watsonian characterization you can go either way with Guts I think, like, he has the self-esteem issues to justify internalizing it and deciding to leave no matter what state of mind he's in when he hears the speech. But yeah in terms of how the narrative is structured it feels like Adonis' death is a key factor in Guts choosing to leave to become Griffith's equal, and I always value narrative framing when it comes to my understanding of the story/characters.

Also, this isn't the question but if Guts was in a great state of mind when he heard that speech, like he just killed Julius without a hitch and was feeling pretty good about himself, I like to think that he might call bullshit on Griffith's life philosophy and maybe recognize that Griffith himself is betraying some fucked up issues of his own when he essentially implies that he needs to chase a goal to justify living.

Like to be fair that's kind of a difficult perception check lmao, and maybe it's giving too much credit to Guts, but tbf he can be pretty emotionally intelligent sometimes when he's not blinded by preconceived notions getting in the way of the truth. And if in that moment he's feeling very content to live for the sake of the day to day pleasures of living and overall very happy with his present life just making a decent living and hanging out with friends, maybe he'd have the self-confidence to think that Griffith is the one who has it all wrong, and even argue with him about it later. "What's wrong with just being happy with what you have? Cool af that you've made it so close to achieving your dream but even if you didn't life is still worth living." That kind of sentiment.

Thanks for the ask!

[skybristle]

Please rant about why you didn't like how chapter 14 characterized Caramel arrow. I may not have gotten to it because I'm still stuck in chapter 11 but I'd love to hear it.

pls rb!! i put a lot of thought and effort into these posts!

was talking to a friend. this is a. Horrid mash of copy/pasted stuff from discord dms paired with me typing in new shit to bridge gaps and add points but. under cut again! probably some talk abt murder and violence [but its against affo mainly so its okay /JOKE] but mainly to save space on dashes since i type a lot also note that i tend to call caramel arrow carrow. it just rolls off my mental tounge better and its easier to speedrun typing in my fanon i've also added magnolia into her story but. for the sake of arguement i'll leave her and any magnolia-related changes out. but yeah they canonically kiss devsis told me /lh ill add more if i think of anything

shes a static character. NOTE. static characters are NOT inherently bad. but she has so much potential for being fucked up and questioning her loyalties and shit. as she stands she is just. There. she does a little bit of girlbossing but ESPECIALLy in chapter 14 she is just there to go its okay dark cacao ur doing the right thing it is alright u are okay :] and she doesnt even get resolution with affo. iirc they dont even rlly get a confrontation he just. Runs away. these r my main problems but ill get into a lot of wasted potential later. ill be so mad forever and ever they didn't let carrow kill affogato. like. she had a straight shot in the end when his sheilds were down and he was just trying to get away. ut she just goes "OHHH NO AFFOGATO IS GETTING AWAYYYYY" like babygirl you are the first watcher. What are you doing. i get that cr doesnt have the balls to violently kill him on screen but like u could have shot him and left him for dead at least. Like. .... idk. red velvet gets a crossbolt bolt to the face in TOSC its not too out there. but even then carrow seems like the type to want to kill someone cleanly and effectively no matter WHAT they did so she doesnt stoop to their level. so as far as my fanon goes she shot him thru the head when he was trying to escape. like again i know canon wouldn't do that but it is dissapointing to see nothing happen with him and carrow's arc yet another injustice to carrow's character. shes just. There honestly. like she doesnt DO ANYTHING. shes kinda just [woman standing discord emoji] you could honestly remove her from the plot without much difference which is. REALLY FUCKING SAD considering that she was so hyped up and is playable. her only real character trait is 'loyal to dark cacao'. which falls flat considering DARK CACAO IS FUCKED UP?? like i know affo is manipulating him or whatever but he had to have been at an incredibly low point in the first place - likely caused by dark choco's betrayel and the stress of losing so much , including many of his watchers, to the war. the main missed potential i see: the missed potential with her and dark choco. it's heavily implied he was very very close with her - and her mentor. she even has a line abt him being the one who taught her how to use a bow. it's p easy to assume he's the person who trained her and could probably be considered her non-blood informal older brother or maybe an idol. [i prefer the former but. Yeah] have her loyalty be split between the king who deeply hurt his people for decades [since even before affo i doubt it was good considering i can only IMAGINE how fucked up the kingdom was afrer the DFW with their watchers presumaby spread incredibly thin after so many losses] and FUCKING EXILED HER regardless of affo's imput and the prince who trained and partially raised her but has done so much fucked up shit and lost his path

NEITHER of them are good people. at least completely. do they deserve her loyalty? is she reeally doing good by following anyone?? is bias by being close to the royals clouding her judgement? she can't answer those questions

but No. dark cacao good everyine else bad :3. so dissapointing this is becoming more of a stretch but this is more a thinly veiled excuse to talk abt my fanon because i make her character so much cooler and sexier but. Ya! also not to say she was probably a trainee or barely out of training when dark choco betrayed everyone when he was probably her older brother figure andddd probably got shoehorned into the position of first watcher too fast since dark cacao was in such deep paranoia after getting betrayed by his own son he couldn't trust anyone short of who was practically his own daughter but. Ya! would have fucked. her cutscene thing says she became the first watcher at an incredibly young age. u can assume in canon that just means that she was so capable she earned it so early on but like. You could ALSO take rlly fucked up implications from that if you wanted to. like. Yeah. also i dont have as thorough thoughts on this but. it's sad that we didnt see much of her relationship with the other watchers. its obvious that they miss her, care about her, and are still loyal to her. i've always thought it was a really interesting thing that despite her exile and presumably being stripped of her title they all still call her first watcher. resisting the urge to talk abt her and magnolia so i wont but like. scenes with the other watchers could have rlly helped this!!! oh also if you ship carrow x affogato get the fuck off this post i actually hate you fuck you fuck yo ufuck yuyou fuck you. Die. thats all i remember for now. Bye girl.