#yeah thats right dalinar's 'woah jasnah slow down' didnt make sense EITHER.

[kingjasnah]

Idk what the anon meant, but maybe they were saying Lirin pushing back in "acceptable" ways meant non-violence? Even if Kal thought his dad would've murdered Roshone, doesn't mean Kal's observation is correct. Idk. But I'm not shocked by his ideology shift either. Lirin has been through some Stuff since twok, and the world's gone a little crazy. Dude's been beaten down, and it read to me like his "compliant slave" comment was more of a reflection of the fact that he's seen no method work.

non violence wasn't exactly acceptable in alethi society either!! any kind of resistance to social norms was punished and well...there's an extreme example in pai the ardent.

but yes he's really been through it so i understand why he mightve been less optimistic (not that he ever was really) over the years but something i liked about stormlight was the way it showcased different ideologies and morals for different characters depending on the situation they were in. like with jasnah's kharbranth philosophy lesson. jasnah thought she was right, shallan thought she was wrong because they had different ways of looking at the situation, both logically and morally. i ended up siding with shallan, but the book still made me actively think about it and make that decision. in row the big ideological battle was between dalinar and taravangian and adolin's "uh maybe there are more than two ways to practice honor?" was another sign that we should maybe have a good hard think about all this.

lirin seemed to be set up in wok as an alternative to dalinar. they're both father figures to kaladin with exactly opposite upbringings and ideas on how to act in this situation. and both were valid for their characters and made sense! they both made you think! and then suddenly....both dalinar and lirin are like hm :/ actually maybe you shouldnt try to uproot your oppressive society. now that og post put this way better than i am doing rn but it's like suddenly there are more arguments for the halting of progress than i would've expected (even from dalinar "a life is priceless" kholin) and it really did feel like lirin's comment was there just to cause conflict with kaladin. it robs us of a nuanced philosophy previously in the series cause literally no one is gonna be like yeah slavery apologism is good actually. if that theory was going to be discredited it probably should've been done in a less nuclear way...even if this made sense for lirin's character (which I'm still not convinced it does) his role in this story feels like it's been damaged