#wouldn't lazarus pit restore them? you ask

[boyfridged]

once again thinking about jason missing random organs because they were stolen/disposed of during his autopsy. just missing two or three of his non-vital organs and never realising until in need of some surgery/an x-ray.

[zahri-melitor]

Today in Tim and Damian parallels that they have obviously never discussed: Robin #12 (2021) and Nightwing #139 (1996).

Damian takes a sample of Lazarus resin to Alfred’s grave, contemplating resurrecting him.

But I can fix that.

Obviously, Damian doesn’t go through with it, and struggles with a hallucination of a dark version of himself.

Talia shows up to find Damian.

"Why didn’t you resurrect him?"

"I’ve seen what the Lazarus Pits do to people. You, me, Ra’s, Mother Soul…they put something dark inside you...I wouldn’t curse Alfred to that. It wouldn’t really be him."

And while this is a lovely sentiment, it’s hysterical, as you’re at LEAST the third of your siblings to struggle with this, Damian. Maybe you could talk to them and they might have had some support and insight???

Because, of course, Tim struggled with this the last time we were playing ‘is Ra’s dead’ as a storyline, during Resurrection of Ra’s Al Ghul.

"Dick...in a world where Jason Todd can come back...then why can't my dad...?" "Tim...I..where does it stop, right? What about your mom, then? My mom and dad? Bruce's...?" "I get the argument...sure...you can't bring back one if you're not willing to bring back everyone. And you can't bring back everyone, so...don't start with one. But in that case--since you know you can't stop all crime...then why bother stopping any at all? Why do what we do then? Sometimes, looking at the 'big picture' can paralyze you, right?"

And so of course famously Tim goes down to the Lazarus Pit and dips out three test-tubes of fluid. Dick tries to talk him out of it.

"Maybe...but you'll always be asking yourself, 'is this really my friend? What about his soul, Tim? How do you bring that back once it's gone...?" "The pit restores that too!" "Yeah...you're right...why don't we go ask Ra's how his soul is doing...?"

Same beats. Same concern over whether the person you get back will be the same. And of course...Tim can't go through with it.

"You have nothing to apologize for. Nothing. I let you make the choice for yourself...because I knew you'd make the right one."

Or, Damian, you could have spoken to your beloved big brother, Dick, who you remember ACTUALLY ATTEMPTING TO RESURRECT BRUCE. As you were there for the fallout. (Well, stuck at home recovering but you got to fight the resurrected zombie clone)

Dick's massive hypocrisy in Batman and Robin #7 (2009) where he doesn't stop to question what they might get back.

"So when we located a potential Lazarus Pit, maybe the last one in the world, what choice did I have? If someone gave you a chance, no matter how small, of bringing back someone you loved. You'd have to take it...wouldn't you?"

Actually no, you didn't have to Dick, you talked Tim out of it only two years earlier, but it's different because it's Bruce for you this time.

"No, it's him. He's always cheated death. It has to be him."

(Spoilers: it's absoutely not)

But I am glad to see that Damian reaches for exactly the same solution and comes to basically the same conclusion that Tim came to over why he shouldn't actually resurrect his beloved family members. (Dick's bad example should have helped him, if Williamson was actually going to acknowledge the parallels he just drew up here. Sadly however...)

Brothers. They're more alike than they like to think.

[lazaruspiss]

Do you know what side effects of the pit are actually canon

Typically it's safer to assume no on most pit side effects. Or ask yourself "do people also say this about Talia, Ra's, etc or is this just a Jason fan thing"

Red Hood: Lost Days is your best bet for clearing up what's canon vs fanon in terms of Jason's resurrection, but I'll try and summarize the important bits.

1) The pit is not what brought Jason back. A superman from an alternate timeline punched the timeline itself so hard that it accidentally revived Jason.

2) Jason ended up in a hospital for a while before he escaped and wandered the streets for five months. He doesn't have any memories aside from his muscle memory, so he can fight but not much else. He can't communicate at all and only reacts to things to defend himself or to manage physical needs.

(Side note. Talia cares so much about him it makes me wanna cry.)

3) Ra's tells Talia this is over. He thinks Talia's attempts to save Jason are part of a desperate attempt to make Bruce love her, and tells her it's over. This is when Talia resorts to using the pit. Jason is alive, mute, doesn't seem to remember much, but still showed extremely small signs of recognition. I do think Jason could have eventually recovered naturally under Talia's care. He would have still been disabled to some extent and his progress would be excruciatingly slow, but it does seem like it would have been possible if Ra's hadn't cut it off.

4) After bringing Jason to the pit Talia guides him to make a break for it. She has him take a survival kit and run into the river in order to escape Ra's' anger. Ra's is the first instance of anyone implying the pit made Jason mad, and Talia immediately shoots him down and says it has had no such affect. Ra's is also speaking out of anger and giving Talia a hard time. I wouldn't take his words about it seriously.

5) Jason does not go "mad". He is mad. Because his murderer is alive. He is not irrational. His reactions are not disproportionate or unusual. After the pit restores his brain functions he is incredibly strategic. Even through the grief he is thinking and planning. He never acts on blind rage, pit induced or otherwise.

But that's just the New Earth timeline. Prime Earth/N52 gave him magic resistance or something. Unrelated to the pit he also seems to have just learned some magic. He can do a magic punch and summon swords that can only be used on beings of pure evil.

Gotham Knights is the funniest one. They needed a fast travel method for him for gameplay reasons and gave him magical bunny hops. GK has the most shit going on with the lazarus pits:

1) repeated use gradually drives you nuts. Jason is fine, Talia is a bit wacky, and Ra's is completely off the deep end before the game even starts.

2) the fast travel abilities are still funny. Talia can turn into mist and Jason can do magic jumps.

3) Jason got magic punches and Talia can do all sorts of fun magic attacks.

4) the pit magic reacts to Jason's trauma/panic attacks, but still doesn't seem to cause them or any other emotional reactions. Even the fanon pile that is GK doesn't have pit rage.