#why isn't uncle iroh real i need him in my life

[astraios-art]

More atla book 2 doodles

[zetifire]

Also a bit late to the party, but that's ok 👌

You made a good question about what it means to be "redeemed". Of course, in real life, I have my own opinion about it that probably doesn't line up with yours, but in the context of the Star Wars universe it seems like at least Force users can do pretty much what you brought up - abandon the Dark Side and actively choose the Light, and then put the actual effort to explore it (because, as we all know, being a Jedi is a really tough thing). There are examples of that in the EU, the Siths that decided to change. In those moments, the Jedi, being Jedi, believe in forgiveness and are willing to give them that opportunity and learn how to control the impulses that lead to the Dark Side. And they eventually become powerful Light users, but are they actually redeemed? It's hard to tell. There are things that make a character almost impossible to redeem to the point that giving them a RA is basically pointless and doesn't serve a purpose in the story. In Anakin's case it most certainly doesn't. Like I said, he never cared about anyone other than himself from AOTC onwards. Jealousy and possessiveness is not love, hidden resentment is not friendship. He brought his demise upon himself. And if we are to interpret his Force Ghost form as a complete redemption given that he stands next to Yoda and Obi Wan, then sorry, but that's not the case. One of the common themes in the Prequel Trilogy is that doing a right thing is difficult. Anakin could have saved Padme if he actually told Yoda the truth and asked for help. That would mean sacrificing his status as a Jedi Knight in order to save his wife. Of course, all of this wouldn't have happened if he had made a choice in the previous movie, but whatever. Yoda doesn't have information required to give a proper advice, and he still does a really good job at telling Anakin something he needs to hear. But he doesn't want to hear, so he doesn't listen. That's just an example, but it's a telling picture. Now compare it to ROTJ, where Darth Vader has to choose between killing Palpatine and saving his son at the cost of his own life or letting Luke (the only person he sort of cares about) die and then spending the rest of his miserable existence as Sidious' puppet. I'm sorry, but for someone who knows the whole context choosing the former is anything but a heroic sacrifice. With his last words he makes it pretty clear that all he really cares about is his reputation and prestige. So no, Anakin wasn't killed by Darth Vader, they are one and the same, but I can't really blame Obi Wan for denying that. He's the one we should feel sorry for. The ending should have been approached differently, that's for sure.

And as for Zuko... I love Avatar and I love Zuko's arc, but I have to admit that he kinda falls under the category of "redemption arc for someone who didn't do anything too terrible". I guess we can blame it on Avatar being a kids show, but Zuko doesn't do anything too bad compared to the other "villains" in that story. He makes wrong decisions, but they mostly affect specific people, and almost exclusively Uncle Iroh. What I mean is, when he burned down the village on Kiyoshi Island, he didn't kill anyone as we saw in the show, that's why they were able to play it as a joke in the third season. He helps Azula to "kill" Aang, but he isn't actually dead. He sends an assassin after Aang, but he's unsuccessful. And the climax of his arc is a promise to atone for SOMEOME ELSE'S wrongdoings (Sozin, Azulon, Ozai and Azula's). We know from the get go that he's not actually that bad, his "fall to the Dark Side" is a personal betrayal of Iroh and after "I was never angry with you" the job is pretty much done. Of course, there's also Gaang that has every reason not to trust him, but that's it, it's more about proving himself to be trustworthy than atoning for his horrible actions. As I said, I love Zuko's arc, but he was never that much of an actual villain. I'd honestly love to see a redemption arc for someone like Zhao. Imagine if he accepted Zuko's helping hand on the North Pole and that was the turning point for him. I'd like to see a whole series only about that. This kind of redemption arcs, if done right can be even more compelling than Zuko's

I think what I'm starting to realize is that Darth Vader is redeemable.

Anakin Skywalker is not.

Darth Vader, the guy we're introduced to in the Original Trilogy, who we don't really know anything about, who Obi-Wan remembers fondly even as we know he's gone bad, who ISN'T associated with the end of the Jedi. Erase all the context of what we now know about Anakin Skywalker, his relationships with the Jedi, his actions on Tatooine, the way he treats Padme, his relationships with the clones, his relationship with Ahsoka, all of that. Erase it all.

All we have is Darth Vader. A guy whose worst acts are honestly relatively small and who is almost always up against a bigger villain. It's Tarkin who technically orders the destruction of Alderaan. And Tarkin dies at the end. By ESB, we start seeing the Empire and Vader's relationship to Luke is revealed, someone we love, someone we want the best for. So when you get to ROTJ and Luke says he might still have good in him, minutes before we meet the Emperor himself in person, it's not that hard to believe him. It's not that hard to believe that one last act of kindness is all it takes to absolve him.

Put everything else aside, JUST looking at the Original Trilogy, Vader's.... not THAT bad. His redemption works fine.

But Anakin Skywalker? Anakin Skywalker's been killing babies since he was 19 years old and never stopped. Anakin Skywalker betrayed 10,000 people who considered him family overnight. Anakin Skywalker betrayed several million good men into being brainwashed and turned into betrayers themselves. Anakin Skywalker betrayed the Republic he served, and the wife he did it all for.

You don't come back from that. You just don't.

Darth Vader without Anakin Skywalker's story was redeemable.

NOTHING Darth Vader ever does in the original trilogy is at the level of what we see Anakin Skywalker do over the course of the prequel trilogy and The Clone Wars show. Nothing. Nothing comes close except Alderaan and that's nowhere near as personal or direct as what he does to the Jedi and the Clones. It's also not a betrayal of any kind.

Anakin Skywalker's not redeemable. What he did can't be undone or fixed. There's no amends he can make because the people he'd need to make amends TO are all dead. Because of him. There's nothing left to BE redeemed.

And most of us CAN'T divorce Darth Vader from Anakin Skywalker anymore, you're not really meant to. They usually WANT you to remember Anakin Skywalker when they bring in Darth Vader to stories these days. Which makes that last moment of ROTJ just feel... so unearned now. So frustrating. Because the more we get to see, the more we're forced to remember everything Anakin Skywalker's done over the course of his life, the less his redemption works. Because the more we see, the more atrocities are revealed. More massacres, more murders, more planets and people eradicated from the galaxy forever. At what point does it become impossible to truly be redeemed for everything you've done? At what point is it impossible to ACTUALLY go back?

And it doesn't matter which version of the force ghost you get, either. If it's the older version, then Anakin gets to present himself as if he'd never done those things. If it's the younger version, then Anakin gets to present himself ONLY before he did some of his worst acts (although he's still a baby killer, let's not forget, so that's... suspect). Either way, the things he's done get to be forgotten. They no longer matter. Those people he killed, the people he betrayed, who will never be the same as they were. The galaxy he helped bring to its knees over and over again, that will take decades AT LEAST to recover from what he did to it, can't forget. But he gets to. He gets to forget.

And I don't find that very satisfying anymore.