#while still forcing minors and adults share the same online spaces as kids don't really have a space anymore anywhere

[dimdiamond]

You know I totally understand the "not proship or antiship but a secret third thing an adult who doesn't care about online discourses" because I do! I am an adult with a job and obligations and tiredness and worries about the future and all kinds of problems! And I can't afford the little energy I have to be wasted on meaningless discourses online! But at some point you have to get a good look at the general state of things online and I am sure you'll see how worrying this situation becomes. People (re)invent new things to feel guilty about and "witchhunt" has become "hunt the creep and absolutely irl abuser/pedophile/etc". There are the normals and there are the freaks. Yes, you have to choose a side. Even if you don't, we'll make the decision for you depending on what you post. None of these ring a bell to you? Isn't censorship a legitimate problem that will affect our lives offline too? I mean yes in the microscope it seems like a trivial matter for fans of a media that will be forgotten until the next new shiny thing. Outside of the microscope, though, you'll see it's a way of thought and attitude that affects almost all online spaces and if this return to puritanism isn't concerning then I guess I do spent too much time online and should go touch some grass. Maybe I will and it will help me push back my concerns for a bit.

[manstrans]

I think we both agree that the real issue is the abusive people!

what I was trying to illustrate though is that it doesn't really matter what is used to groom someone, it's still gonna happen no matter what the materials are. I'm not sure I made it that clear though!

but once you kind of become disillusioned with "abuse is because of this harmful material" you start to think that it's more productive to focus on abusive actions rather than niche media that most people aren't that interested in in the first place

I think one big problem is 'adult spaces' and 'kid spaces' online being more and more merged together. it makes it harder to talk about, say, some niche comic while feeling safe that minors aren't around

I think the gray area that's created from adults not having many places to easily keep out minors makes it easier for bad actors to hide behind said gray area. it's hard for me to articulate right now, but minors and adults being forced to share the same general spaces (for example twitter) gives at least some plausible deniability

and like... people I know with these kinks want minors as far away from them as possible. it's not grooming, but people don't often talk about how minors also often break adult's boundaries. which is also an important issue. if a blog is plastered with "18+" "no minors" "minors DNI" and a minor decides to look at that content anyway, that's not grooming

the minor is the one breaking the adult's boundaries here, and it's not unharmful to the adult in this situation. like, if a 16 year old made a sexual comment at you, you are the one being harassed there. and that's the difference I think

if someone is purposefully showing minors or encouraging minors to look and interact, that's when it's harmful and predatory. but if someone is doing their best to be responsible with what they post, it's not on them if someone breaks their boundaries

Hey, I'm a big time fan of your blog and the circle of blogs similar to it. I love the pro-kink stuff, I love the support of transfun and the general concept that you can vibe with whatever gender and identity you want, I love the positivity, I love bringing attention to trans masc issues.

But I've been seeing some alarming dogwhistles lately. And I've been ignoring them because I really really want to just believe that they were unintentional. But with a recent post you reblogged, I have to ask you something - not out of discourse reasons or to paint you a specific way but because I want to decide what type of people I interact with on tumblr. If you decide to answer my question, please be incredibly clear. I'm not going to hide it behind vague terms like "certain kinks" or "problematic media", I am going to also be incredibly clear.

Do you genuinely believe that if we were in a society where fictional child porn and incest was the norm, that it would have no negative effects on our society as a whole? That media does not represent or change our cultural norms, that fiction can not be used as either propaganda nor as a way to help someone see things in a new light (for better or worse)?

Please be straightforward in your response. Even if it's just a yes or no.

that's a tough question. a quick but unnuanced answer is that I know the meanings behind these when I reblog them, and I do so because I agree with their general messages

the longer answer is... if these things were the norm then people would definitely be interacting with it differently than they do now I think. in some ways they already are somewhat normal, schoolgirl costumes and step-family roleplay come to mind.

ideally, in a world where these fantasies are completely normalized so is education on consent and safety. I don't think there's any real uncomplicated answer to it. but in the world we live in now, as long as things are labeled and not put into spaces where they're inappropriate, there's not really as much harm as some people just feeling uncomfortable

even if these things magically disappeared entirely (which they won't, and as someone with OCD I'd rather have them labeled than out in the wild), they still aren't the source of harm

I said it earlier, but I was groomed with the game tetris. under this framework of media causing harm, where do you go from there? it's a game about blocks, should we ban it and legos too for good measure?

sorry for talking so much when you wanted a short answer, but there's so much nuance here and I like explaining context instead of putting just a little bit of my thoughts out

[olderthannetfic]

also idk man, I actually find the fact that minors (as in like, teens) can find "mature" content if they so choose a good thing? I don't think porn really shows up on google images anymore, at least so long as you have safe search on, but a lot of the stuff ppl get their panties in a twist about kids seeing is like... tits or dick. Which isn't that traumatizing for most people (though there are exceptions). Once again, it shouldn't be shoved in anyone's face, let alone teens or tweens, but it's normal for teens to want to check it out. God knows I did. Ao3 is an adult space in the same way a library is, the bad stuff isn't being shoved in your face but it's still there. It's accessible. A lot of it is labelled better. And I think that's a good thing.

Also we know what else often gets lumped in with not safe for kids and I want that stuff accessible for anyone who needs it as well, regardless of age. Sex education, content with mature themes, controversial speech, ect ect. If the internet as a whole is more restrictive on the basis of minors maybe seeing some stuff then we also potentially sacrifice a lot of the internet's use of sharing lots of information and experiences. We do need more kid-only spaces, both on the internet and in real life tbh, and the loss of carefully curated online spaces for minors in favour of 5 sanitized no boobs but not nazis free websites for all of us it a travesty, but if some 13 yr old wants to read really kinky porn... im more concerned if they also aren't getting the necessary sex education to temper their fantasies and curiosity, not that they're reading intense erotica. Idc if they're listening in on the adults talk like adults either so long as they aren't getting involved directly.

Not to say I wouldn't keep an eye on a kid if they were in my general online vicinity but scary fictional content existing online in general doesn't, in my experience, really traumatize kids that often. If it's real life footage of somehow getting beheaded for sure, or if they're forced to interact with the content or if it triggers trauma from something else maybe, but someone's noncon incest pwp isn't traumatizing kids by existing where their hands might be able to reach it. Also if a kid is purposefully seeking out content that does traumatized them that might also be its own problem.

--

Agreed. I was a kinky little perv at 13 and actively sought out all kinds of horrible stuff. I have no clue why I liked violent snuff erotica so much. Nothing was wrong. I just liked weird shit. It was just fake stories people posted to usenet, not videos of real life atrocities, and it wasn't a symptom of anything, so I was fine. Trying to keep me out of the nasty stuff would not have been successful.

If some teenager reads my kinky fic because it interests them, more power to them. Passively consuming content while you figure yourself out is one of the safer ways to explore.