#we can't get over the reylo train

[blackswampotter]

Season 1 of The Acolyte is over and I have some thoughts. A lot of thoughts, actually.

Acolyte spoilers below

What a weird show

I ultimately end up feeling the same way I did early on; it's a pretty average show with some great action held back by clunky dialogue, poor pacing, and several fairly dull characters.

And, I could probably leave it there, but I feel like that would ignore a lot of the most interesting elements.

Some of the show's best moments and emotional beats are centered around the character of Master Sol and his death and posthumous betrayal works really, really well. It's probably the most effective thing in the show and gave some genuine pathos to the last episode.

Osha and Mae swapping roles - something started in episode 5 - was also a compelling direction for the show.

Osha's fall to the dark side feels very unique compared to some we've seen before and I think it's because the show positions the Jedi as the antagonists in the end.

It's not framed as tragic, it's framed as brave and almost righteous in a twisted way. As though she's finally becoming who she was really meant to be.

But, you can't really talk about Osha and Qimir without talking about the Reylo sized elephant in the room...

The sequel trilogy had lightning in a fucking bottle with these two. Their chemistry is unreal and the pining, longing glances sell you on the enemies to lovers direction they were moving in.

In the end, Reylo sort of fizzled out with TRoS being unwilling to fully commit to, well, much of anything. But, the Reylo fandom was, and still is, massive.

With The Acolyte, Leslye Headland appears to be trying to capitalize on that kind of dynamic and it's just nowhere near as compelling.

Part of that is the lack of tension between them. Qimir feels so toothless compared to Kylo. Rey and Kylo push against one another. There's hostility, fear, and even some spite.

But, Qimir is just there to facilitate Osha's story. He doesn't feel like an independent actor playing off Osha in an interesting way.

Their dynamic feels like a sanitized and sanded down version of Reylo without any of rough edges that actually made Reylo compelling.

Finally, there's the Glup Shitto of it all.

So, somebody who looks an awful lot like Legends Darth Plagueis shows up for five seconds and I imagine that's going to be the biggest point of discussion online.

It's hilarious because he's just sort of there, poking his head around the corner like he's part of the goddamn Scooby gang.

My initial prediction was that Qimir was going to be revealed to be a Knight of Ren (Kylo's theme can be heard when he shows up), but now I'm wondering if he is, in fact, being trained by Plagueis.

Perhaps he and Osha will break away from Plagueis in season 2 and create the Knights of Ren, but that's assuming we get a season 2.

The response to this show has been disgusting from the beginning. Just mountains of idiots who hate anything with diversity and go out of their way to read everything in the most bad faith way possible.

I don't even think the show is all that great, but it's not because there are women and people of color in it.

It's kind of ironic then that this show, in a lot of ways, gives that crowd exactly what they've always wanted - over the top saber action, high fantasy Jedi/Force stuff, and Darth Plagueis.

I guess we'll see if they change their tune or if their whinging is enough to prevent a season 2 from being greenlit, because I honestly think the show deserves to keep going, even if I think it's pretty far from perfect.

[darklinaforever]

Reylo's indetroner equivalent to date.

I mean, Dongfang Qingcang = Kylo Ben to death. They both killed their father for essentially the same reason ! And Rey and Orchid are both in the same situation of not knowing who they are and no one knows who they are either. Girls without a home and family, and who would really want have that, who don't know who they are and think that basically they are nothing, and who are alone. There's also the color coding of the guy and the girl, the girl's powers generally linked to healing, not to mention the mystical connection of the two characters which essentially allows them to resurrect each other at the end. Then obviously, they are in enemy clans. He is from the tribe of the moon, and she, from that of the celestial. Then we discover that she is in fact the reincarnation of the former leader of another clan, which the Moon Tribe once decimated, so she is the equivalent of the goddess of nature. So in short, the heroine was nobody, but then discovers her true identity which further reinforces the supposed enemy aspect between the two characters. Like Rey when she discovers (unfortunately) that she is Palpatine's granddaughter. Without forgetting that the heroine's primordial form at the beginning is an orchid, that's her name, and you are well aware that an orchid is a plant that needs sunlight. Something said in the series itself, and where we see Dongfang Qingcang taking care of Orchid by making her be in contact with sunlight as much as possible. Not to mention that fairies are often symbolically associated with light in our culture. And even if Orchid is ultimately not a fairy, she thinks she is for the majority of the series and is designated as such by the title. Yes. No doubt. It's Reylo pure and simple.

We'll see how The Hurricane Wars trilogy evolves in the future...

Talasyn and Alaric's relationship is reminiscent of many other well-known fictional romantic relationships for me. (Just like Reylo, and of course, also like Dongfang Qingcang & Orchid, and they are all generally - so not all - the same)

There is Romeo & Juliet by the obvious appearance of the star-crossed lovers, from an enemy clan in the middle of war.

The obvious myth of Hades & Persephone. Because sometimes Persephone is called the Light of the Underworld and she is also sometimes depicted with a torch. So always associated with light. Hades is on the other hand associated with death and darkness. It is also often pointed out that they are a power couple.

Of course ; Beauty and the Beast. But in the sense that the trope is used today in the idea of ​​a man cathegorized as monstrous finally finding redemption / or evolved, through the romantic relationship he forms with a woman. (Let's be real, this is the direction we are heading)

The classics Jane Eyre & Mr Rochester ! The orphan heroine meeting a Byronic hero dressed in black. The emphasis of the relationship being on their spiritual / magical connection. (And probably later in the trilogy the emphasis for Talasyn & Alaric will be on their equality, like Jane & Rochester, I'd be hard-pressed, seeing as after all, it's taken from a Reylo fanfic and is about a trope of light / darkness, equality will inevitably come to the table at some point)

Erik & Christine from The Phantom of the Opera. The young orphaned woman associated to the light who finds herself in a complicated and tragic romantic relationship with a man having a traumatic past, and wearing a mask over his face. But who also offers to train the heroine and ends up doing so.

The other aspect of Reylo would be Darcy & Elizabeth from Pride and Prejudice, but hey... as long as we don't get in the sequel the guy telling to the girl that she may be nothing according to her or for the others, but not for him like with Kylo (And Dongfang Qingcang from LBFAD) as equivalent to Darcy's failed declaration... well I can't really say. Hoping we will have it too !

I also hope that the connection between Talasyn & Alaric on a spiritual and magical level will strengthen even more, and also above all that the concept of equality will come to the table as their relationship evolves positively. (Which should normally be the case)

[alligatorjesie]

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.

Whoa there Sparky. How about you take a minute and wipe some of the saliva froth off the keyboard there because it looks like your fingers slipped a few times.

So, what you're telling me is you're a 300 kill confirmed member of the navy seals, one of the highest ranked snipers in your class, presumably an adult man if any of this is true, and you're going to use all this skill and power of death and murder at the snap of your fingers to uhhh... Lemme check here again Take out a single furry reylo on the internet who told you to get the fuck out of the tags to a fandom you're not a part of if you're going to act like a complete set of cock and balls? I absolutely adore how vague this rant is. You're gonna have to be way more specific about what I called you and when because this is tumblr and I call a lot of people a lot of things on here. But I only ever yell at antis so either this is horseshit which is way more likely than the second option which is this full grown adult ass man who has killed a little less than a third of the people the whole United States Police departments have fatally shot in the last year (over 1,080 by the way) is just cruising tumblr and being a part of shipping wars and using all the deadly powers he gained from killing innocent people overseas to threaten death to women just trying to enjoy a fictional ship without dealing with harassment.

You need a whole secret network of spies to do what any neckbeard can do in their own basement for free? This sounds like a massive waste of resources. I guess the navy seals don't have courses on doxxing. I don't think you need a whole ass network of spies of that shit yo, not when darthpussy69 on any random star wars forums can do it in like a minute.

You can't even figure out you only need to press send once for the post to go through. Bitch you can hardly figure out how to use fucking tumblr. I don't believe you can shoot a gun, much less accurately. You know better yet, how about you re-send this 5 more times using your actual account because I wanna see the person who typed this out. I'll bet like 100 bucks and one free smut drawing by yours truly that this is a teenage girl. Butt hay guys! We gotta update the banner yaaaaay!

If we're playing pretend I wanna be a real anthro alligator brought to life by hell magic and I can breath fire. My fursona can't breath fire and I feel like it was a really wasted opportunity.

[alligatorjesie]

It's anyone's guess why the fact the new new Republic and Luke's academy getting wrecked instantly is still such a point of tension to detractors of this fandom.

As if the writing wasn't on the wall well before the sequel trilogy was a twinkle in anyone's eyes.

Han and Leia didn't really stop the racist fascist regime by the end of a new hope and didn't successfully snuff it out by the time the events of the sequel trilogy are even getting off the ground.

And that ain't their fuckin' fault.

Due to circumstances entirely out of their hands.

If Andor taught us anything it's the freight train that is the process of toppling powerful military regimes can take a really long time to roll to a complete stop. Leia ain't got control over the shit going on in wild space which is where the First Order hung out until they were powerful enough to show up and start shit and start shit they did.

Maybe if Luke wasn't spending so much time training new child soldiers for the new new Republic and instead was spending his time trying to find the source of this new rising racist military we coulda told that story but that wasn't the dice rolled.

Also where are you getting the new new Republic was filled with 'greedy assholes who don't want to help anyone'?

I mean they're a bureaucratic government, so yeah probably, but didn't they all got blown up in The Force Awakens? We don't really see the new new Republic doing much of anything before they got blowed up. I can assume they were doing as well as they could after processing the collective trauma of being under a controlling racist dictatorship for more than a decade and also are very dead now.

Luke was doing the exact same thing the Jedi before him were doing. Training kids to become weapons for the new new Republic.

Luke's academy was kinda always doomed and if you think otherwise you were not paying very good attention to the entire point of the prequel trilogy.

The entire point of Luke and Leia failing the way this did is entirely because the way they were doing it wasn't any better than what came before it.

It was identical in fact, and thus was doomed to fail.

Their failure would be a fantastic opportunity for the next generation to learn from that mistake and not repeat it.

Don't Kill Your Past.

Learn From It.

Also I can't stress enough how no one wants to watch a fantasy space drama epic with no drama. Sometimes bad things happen to simply move a story along.

I'm sorry you feel like these fake characters were unjustly portrayed as failures for failures sake and not for the reason anyone who actually likes these movies thinks which is:

You can try your best and still fail.

That's not weakness, that's just life baby.

I cant help you out with the reylo thing but I shouldn't really have to.

Perhaps consider these movies are not for you and move on from this hatred in your heart over things beyond our control and find joy in the fact some people are able to give love to parts of your own fandom you just can't give yourself.

Number 9 for the ask game! For both disneycanon and legends :)

9. worst part of canon

Man, this is a hard question to answer, mostly because there's so many things I could answer.

So I am assuming here that when you say "Legends" you actually just mean Lucas canon that existed pre Disney canon since "Legends" has never been and will never be canon in and of itself. If you were hoping to hear me speak about something that was ACTUALLY from Legends, I'm very sorry, but I'm not familiar enough with it and I don't think it works for the prompt anyway, so all of my answers are going to be from Disney Canon or Lucas Canon.

Some of these will land more in the realm of "the concept is fine/good, the execution was bad" and some will be more "the concept in and of itself is awful regardless of whether it was executed well or not."

In the Ahsoka show, the concept of Ahsoka facing her past with Anakin and how that's impacted who she's become is a great idea and it's really the only way to move her character forward, but the execution of it was so badly done that I wish it had never happened and we'd just never seen Ahsoka again or ever learned what she felt about Anakin. I've spoken enough about this show for anyone more familiar with me to know why I feel that way. If you haven't read my posts about it and want to hear more of them, you can search under the tags "ahsoka show" and "anti ahsoka show."

Turning the Darksaber into Mandalorian Excalibur is, perhaps controversially, a bad concept. It's introduced in the hands of a Mandalorian, sure, but it's also introduced specifically as a stolen Jedi relic. And between those two things, somehow the fact that it was in the hands of a Mandalorian got considered the more important part of it rather than the fact that it was a JEDI relic that got stolen from them.

And unfortunately turning the Darksaber into Mandalorian Excalibur has made the Mandos even more boring than they already were. It forces everything that was established about them in TCW to be basically erased and ignored. The whole aspect of them having a government of any kind, having a Council and a Prime Minister, is gone, and leaders are chosen by who can wield a stolen relic real good (or, more accurately, who can wield a DIFFERENT WEAPON well enough to defeat the person who IS wielding the stolen relic) rather than chosen more democratically by the people themselves.

The Darksaber also just isn't even being used very well in the narrative. It got handed to Sabine and we went through an entire lovely arc for her to earn it both the Jedi way and the Mandalorian way only for her to hand it off the very next season to someone who hadn't earned it at all. Then that person loses it and it somehow ends up in the hands of Din Djarin who seems to START an arc about earning it only for that to just get completely dropped so he can hand it right back to the same person Sabine handed it to last time and then it gets destroyed a few episodes later. There's not been any point to the Darksaber at all since it first showed up in Pre Viszla's hands in TCW. It should've stayed a fancy-looking stolen Jedi relic (and arguably should've just been handed back to the Jedi) if they weren't going to do a single interesting thing with any of the Mandos who ended up with it.

Moving on from the Darksaber, and looking at the Sequels, I think killing off all of Luke's Jedi students and destroying Leia's New Republic was a terrible terrible idea as a concept. I understand the idea of like... "Darkness always comes back, the fight is never completely over" but destroying ALL OF THE PROGRESS made in the last trilogy by the main characters just to force the new characters to do the exact same thing all over again is stupid. There are ways to do "darkness always comes back" as a theme without making Luke, Leia, and Han's arcs completely irrelevant. It doesn't feel hopeful by the end anymore, it just feels a little pointless because if everything is always going to be destroyed over and over again then why try to build anything at all? What's the fucking point of it all if none of the triumphs last long enough to mean anything?

And adding onto that, making the New Republic completely incompetent and also so horrible that they're basically the Empire in all but name feels equally frustrating as a concept because now not only were they destroyed before anything meaningful could be done with them, but it's not even a bad thing that they were destroyed because Leia failed long before Starkiller blew up those five planets. The New Republic was a failure from the moment of its inception because it's just filled with and run by cowards and greedy assholes who won't help anyone or do anything useful at all apparently.

I won't touch on R*ylo much because plenty of other people have, but everything about that was awful and it never should've been made canon.

While we're on romantic failures, I don't think Obi-Wan has ever needed a romantic interest, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be done well. But Obitine just wasn't it. Obitine was executed so incredibly poorly that it just made both characters radically less interesting and if I didn't already enjoy Obi-Wan as a character, his relationship with Satine would probably turn me off of Obi-Wan entirely given that he's literally a sexist asshole to her. Obitine never should've happened and if they HAD to do it, they should've gotten better writers to handle it so that it didn't ruin a beloved character as a result.

I'm sure there's more I could complain about, but that's what's coming to mind right now.

[starwarsconnectionarchive-blog]

Ehi girls, I wanted to thank you all, you're amazing! Two years ago when I was at the movie theater I started to ship raylo just a bit but when K. killed Han my expetations for this ship were killed too. Now me and my BF are 100% raylo trash but after few week online on tumblr shipping this I was feeling so depressened 'couse there are a lot of really rude anti and a lot of them were really mean in a way I never seen on other ship I ship. You are really one of the best thing in this fandom.

Regarding the ants: meh. 

We talked about this a little in our Reylo Fandom: The New Star Wars Rebels podcast episode. We started out as part of the original Reylo thread at a place that shall not be named. Just crawling with ants. We would stay up all night talking about what we’d seen in TFA, confirming with each other that we weren’t crazy, breaking down the scenes, reading meta from Tumblr, pooling knowledge from our various backgrounds: art, literature, film, psychology, other fandoms, people with eyes and common sense, etc. What was happening there was awesome. Then ants started to drop in to try to get a rise out of us with their lame arguments, their narrow views, their low-key or outright sexism. 

It was annoying to hear stuff like “Your argument is invalid because this isn’t 50 Shades of Rey” or “But …but…muh Reywalker! How dare you??”or “You women only care about romance bla bla bla!” (Especially annoying because we had some smart and awesome dudes there, it wasn’t just women!)

But you know what, that stuff also really helped us. It’s like we understood collectively that we had to be in top form because we felt we were representing Reylo to the larger Star Wars community there. The ants trying to antagonize us and dismiss our point of view actually made us hone our arguments, they made us think through the flaws in our logic, and do our best to minimize our bias when looking at what was shown in TFA. They also helped us to develop thicker skin when it came to dealing with their pettiness. 

Most importantly, we also grew closer as a community, and when our home got condemned, essentially, and we realized it was time to move on from there we flew away like a majestic fucking butterfly -  leaving behind a shriveled, empty cocoon. So whatever. u_u

Ahem. After all that salt:

Stay positive, Reylo friend. There’s so much good stuff going on in the fandom and the Reylo train is going full speed ahead - like literally, cause the Reylo train is a thing! What a time to be alive. XD  

And thank you so much for your kind words. We love talking about Star Wars;  even if no one listened or cared about what we had to say we’d still have fun with it. Still, the fact that people out there say they appreciate what we’re doing, like you with your comment - well damn. It really means a lot to us.

[who-talks-first]

The Skywalker Legacy documentary confirms what I was already fairly certain was true.

I don't need to go in-depth for you Bendemption fans. I know you picked up on all the little things after the death of Kylo Ren.

But I just want to go over this a bit because, while I maintain that Kylo Ren didn't deserve redemption, if it HAD to be done, this was absolutely the best (only) way it could have happened, and I really respect Adam's performance and all JJ's attention to detail.

The metaphorical (and literal?) death of Kylo Ren and rebirth of Ben Solo don't need to be explained. But the inclusion of which gives us such a tangible, real, tactile setup for his redemption. It doesn't happen here. This is just the catalyst that lets it happen.

Harrison Ford's uncredited cameo is so beautiful. It makes this scene possible. I think it's meant to be intentionally vague, but I personally feel that Leia sent him through the Force. Memory, Force Ghost, regular ghost, guilt vision, whatever - Leia made sure her son saw it.

And from then on, with the rebirth of Ben, we get to see the man he could have been. Brave. Strong. Feeling. I don't know how they do it, but his entire affect AND appearance change. The way KR holds himself, how his hair falls is entirely different from those of BS. And it's impressive acting and makeup/wardrobe. Ben's hair is... dare I say it? Fluffy. Where we all mocked Kylo for his nasty greasy Snape hair. Something about Adam's face, even when he's fighting, feels more natural, more relaxed.

You know what? In 15 minutes of screen time for BS, I actually like him. Meaning, if he had been a character in movies instead of KR, I would have liked him and rooted for him along with the other heroes. He even looks more youthful. Instead of the 40 year old appearance in TLJ, Ben looks like he's 25 (a little closer to the character's actual age, I think). And I think that's good filmmaking that all those things can be made apparent * just like that.

Anyway. I want to focus on some details. There's probably something to be said about the costume change - from the hard, rigid armor of KR to the, uh, is that a sweater? of BS. When did he have time to do that? How'd he get off Endor? I have other questions about that escape, but that's not the focus of this discussion.

Anyway, I seen all the GIFs where scenes with KR mirror the behaviors his parents (like the Solo Slide). But I think that as Ben, we really see him channel his parents.

This is the most obvious one to me:

Han in TFA at Maz's castle/Ben arriving on Exegol (some kind person already GIFed it for me)

That's very deliberate given that these are both JJ's films.

Now this may not be as intentional as I think, but it's obvious to me. Leia training with her brother /Ben answering the knights' challenge

That casual, wide stance? I dunno. It feels like something he picked up from his mom like he picked up the other thing from his dad.

All this stuff just let you see and feel what was taken away by Snoke and Palpatine. He could have been a good man, strong fighter for the light, a Jedi like his mother before him and her father before her. It gives you that sharp contrast of what you lose when you choose the dark.

Then Ben and Rey both squaring up to fight Palpatine and then he straight up removes Ben from the fight completely. That's important. It makes sure there's no misunderstanding that this is Rey's fight. No one else can fight it for her or take it away from her. Kylo Ren said "that saber belongs to me" but the truth is Rey earned it. But I digress.

TROS builds up how strong Rey is in the Force throughout the movie, showing her ability to transfer life. Something it appears she learned on her own.

So when she falls. And it's made clear that she is dead. (Her body doesn't immediately disappear, however, and I think there's another discussion to be had on why that is!)

And Ben hesitates. You can see him wonder if he can do it.

He puts his hand on Rey and transfers far more than "a bit of life". Already drained by his and Rey's life-forces being used to revive Palpatine, it takes everything that is left in him. But he is also pulling Rey back from somewhere she hadn't yet pulled anyone with her own technique. Is Ben more powerful in the Force than she? (I don't think so, but I think in another life he could have been) I think Ben only knows all or nothing. It's part of how he got here in the first place. Perhaps he could have brought Rey back from the other side without using all his strength. Perhaps not. We'll never know.

Now I do not approve of the kiss. I don't even know how to begin discussing my feelings on it. But maybe it was necessary to include it just to pacify the Reylos (as if the redemption arc wasn't enough).

But the smile. The smile is so important. We've not once seen Kylo Ren happy anywhere in the series. I don't think anything he could ever achieve would have made him happy. But Ben, maybe even aware that he is about to meet his end, is so happy that she is alive, that he succeeded in saving her, that she defeated Palpatine, (that she is in his arms?) and he finally smiles and again we see the man that should have been. It's bittersweet. As relieved as I am to see Kylo Ren perish (because, like Darth Vader, after taking so many many lives, saving only one is not enough to live a free life) I am saddened to see Ben Solo die. There's probably a conversation to be had on how anyone can be tempted by evil. I dunno. I'm not a philosopher or anything.

Anyway. My sister, who is not really a Star Wars fan but who often understands storytelling far better than I, informed me that Leia was essentially possessing her son for the duration of the redemption arc. That's why her body doesn't disappear until Ben dies. That's why he fights like her, understands Rey's techniques better, can heal like that... I don't know if she's right, my sister. I don't think it's all Leia cuz I'll be damned if she kisses Rey on the mouth.

And then my bf informed me that Ben became a part of Rey when he disappeared into the Force. That's why his ghost didn't appear later. I don't know how I feel about that. I def don't know how Finn and Poe are going to feel when Rey tells them both this. I can't imagine wanting to smooch your gf after you find out that Hitler's wannabe poser grandson is possessing her. I mean.

Okay I've been writing so long I've lost what little coherency I started with. I'm so sorry.

But I just wanted to share my thoughts on all this with you guys. My main point is that if the redemption of Ben Solo had to be included in the film, I genuinely believe that it could not have been done better - from a storytelling standpoint AND with regards to the performance itself! - than they did for TROS. My hat is off to JJ and Adam, really.

(oh and his insistence on doing all his own stunts? Adorable.)

(I'm cool for discussion on the topic, but I have neither the time nor the energy to fight any Reylos about this and anyone trying to start drama gets the ol' Instablork.)

[kidmachinate]

Not All Is As It Seems

**SPOILERS BELOW THE PICTURE**

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“Rey…Skywalker”

THAT’S NOT HOW THAT WORKS!!!

My literal reaction to the very end of the movie. Much like The Last Jedi, I don’t have an issue with this as much as the majority of the internet and think it was a fun watch…however…two things. As a Star Wars film, which is what it is, man did they mess things up. Also, whatever plot complaints people had about The Last Jedi? Rise of Skywalker basically says, hold my beer. Let’s get into this.

This was the most obvious thing from the beginning with the trailers but Emperor Palpatine? Why is he in this? Kylo just gets the shaft at the end of the day because he’s “Supreme Leader” until THE supreme leader comes in, which brings him back to the temper tantrum angry kid he is. Still taking orders from someone ultimately and can't rise to power. Poor Kylo. Guess we've gotta kill Palpatine. Everyone wants to anyway. I suppose this all needed to happen in order to set up “ReyLo” but the inclusion of Palpatine at all just seems like a huge copout. Should have just kept Snoke. Replacing Snoke with another main villain after he was killed off by Kylo makes that scene pointless in the previous movie. Palpatine for the Final Order apparently has a bunch of literal planet destroyer ships. Cool…so…pulling the strings all along over the last two movies is pointless. Just execute the final order and forget going through all the trouble? The final battle was cool upon first seeing it, but just doesn’t feel like a satisfactory payoff at the end. The more it dragged on it went between predictable and cringeworthy. Rey gets shown the space battle just like he did to Luke back in Return of the Jedi to try and make her lose hope and embrace her dark side because…you know…evidentially Rey is a Palpatine. Isn’t this Rise of SKYWALKER? Maybe we should look at it from Kylo Ren’s perspective instead and it makes more sense? All these force families are related in one way or another and cross over and such so I’ma give that a pass. The way the ships just fall from the sky when things are over just seems absurd. Lando Calrissian must be one hell of a charmer to have gotten the army he did to help out. There ARE things I like, I swear. Call this nitpicking but these were my thoughts through the movie. Take it or leave it. There’s more.

The ending overall was probably my least favorite part of the whole film. The awkward tension between the three main characters towards the beginning felt forced, and I think we could have done without as well. The force link of sorts between Rey and Kylo was kind of annoying and awkward as well in the previous movie, but I think was done much better in this one. The ways Kylo tries to manipulate Rey or extract info from her is front and center. Parts of the fanbase don’t like Rey. Well I do, so fuck them. Just kidding, we all have opinions. That said, for as much as I actually don’t like Kylo Ren, this trilogy might as well have been his journey. He is probably the only new character fleshed out to their full potential. He actually gets progression through the movies. Rey is basically the equivalent to Superman and just can’t be stopped. Struggling with the dark side and her humility keeps her “human” but her sheer power just makes things very predictable. She throws down against Kylo in The Force Awakens with NO FORCE TRAINING and wins. It is actually one of the reasons I thought he was kind of a joke. This is his trilogy…then he dies. But hey, awkward kiss from Rey before he dies. Guess there goes ReyLo. What they were building up to all these movies…fanfic achieved…short kiss…no more ReyLo. I’m almost done with the bad I swear…

Finn. What the hell were they thinking? What is his role in this film, really? In fact, what is his role truly since Force Awakens? He’s clearly force sensitive in some way and they really don’t get into what that could mean. Easy character development that just doesn’t really happen. He has heroic moments in The Last Jedi as well but in this movie…he’s just not interesting and mostly ends up just being worried about Rey but never able to do anything about it. He also “has something to tell her”. He never does. The topic even gets revisited between Poe and him. Still doesn’t say anything. Guess there’s no resolution there. Oops. Also, real quick, we knew Leia would fall just like Han and Luke. One per movie. But we don’t kill off Chewy although we tease it. I was happy about that. Droids are fine too. Humans gotta go though. Guess human don’t sell as well as toys. Alright, we’re done here. Onto the good stuff.

I just mentioned Chewbacca so his emotional reaction to Leia’s death was really well done. Leia was treated the best way she could have been with what they had to work with, in my opinion. The tiny gripe was referring to her as Princess instead of General but I guess we will give that a pass too. The force ghost scene with Luke and Rey was both great and nostalgic. That X-Wing was sitting there the pervious movie and to see him raise it for Rey to use was one of the grand moments of the film. This along with him catching the lightsaber as if to say, I was wrong and was scared when you first approached me about training. Or maybe this was to shut up angry fans about the fact that he threw the saber in the first place in The Last Jedi. I found that great personally. Fans need to get over themselves sometimes. The Han Solo retread with the famous “I know" line was another highlight. People will nitpick this and say Han never had force powers so shouldn’t show up in this way. Clearly it was just Ben recalling memories as if to be talking to himself, to his Dad, and being offered forgiveness. A highlight of the movie for me as well. This all brings things to where this post started. Just before that however, I want to recall thoughts from a previous post of liking what they tried to do in this sequel trilogy and prove that the force is more than what we saw it as and isn’t “just blood”. Even the dark side can be converted. Offered redemption. There are just several places where this all could have been done much better. They also could have put Mara Jade in the movie. Just saying, totally not salty, let’s wrap this up.

Rey’s revisit to Tatooine is a great way to end the film, the Skywalker saga. She buries the two sabers where Star Wars started in the first place and reveals the one she forged for herself. I love this. When she engages in conversation with the person who questions who she is, at the point of redeeming the ending, she mentions she is Rey Skywalker. You’re a fucking Palpatine, was confirmed, and I get that you got the nod from Leia and Luke’s force ghost, but that quite literally, is not how things work. You don’t just label yourself something and become that. Without her being a Palpatine, her struggle with the dark would make less sense. However, I do think there would have been more value in her actually being related somehow to a Skywalker that dabbled in the dark, meanwhile Kylo Ren started good and turned dark due to having too much “Vader” in him. Like two people trying to find their proper place in the world in their own struggles. Rey was always gonna be the one to live however. I personally think it would have been more respected that way. Maybe I’m dealing in absolutes here.

These are my thoughts on everything. Nothing is as it seems and Kylo and Rey both have their respective journeys realized for better or worse. Will Rey train a new generation of Jedi and tell them about the Skywalker linage while then lying to the kids about her being one as well? Since she is now a self-proclaimed Skywalker? Don’t lie to the kids. Don’t hide shit from them. You don’t want to end up with a classroom full of Kylo Rens.

[itspileofgoodthings]

what made you go from shipping one-sided reylo to mutual reylo? i only went back and saw tfa after seeing tlj and being surprised by how much i loved it, so i can't really evaluate them in tfa without tlj bias kicking in.

The really short answer is: The Last Jedi fully won me over to a two-sided love story! :) 

The much longer answer: So obviously I saw reylo in The Force Awakens (I’ve had my sideblog since December 2015!)  but as it appears in there it is, by necessity, mostly one-sided. He’s the interested party, the one with the villainous crush who is doing everything wrong as a villain because he’s not thinking straight. And she’s (obviously totally understandably) like: dude what the hell BACK OFF. 

Which. okay so this is a tangent. But isn’t it weird that so much anti discourse about this ship focuses on attacking shippers for being delusional instead of focusing on the fact that kylo does have a crush on rey and that’s why it’s problematic. If you’re going to argue that this ship is problematic you cannot erase the fact that he’s interested in her….like romantically. I mean, I love reylo because they reverse the power dynamic beautifully and because in the end this is a female power fantasy if it’s anything (more on this later) but this ship does literally start with a masked monster carrying an unconscious girl back to his private quarters. I MEAN HE BRIDAL CARRIES HER BACK TO HIS SHIP. And there is something deliberately unsettling about that and something primordial and scary that, at this stage in the story, should set off all sorts of alarm bells. I mean!!!!!!

(First gif that comes up when you search bridal carry.) 

When your villain goal is to find the droid that has a map you don’t hunt down the girl who has seen the map one time and bridal carry her all the way back to your ship in the middle of a war zone especially when there are stormtroopers right there that you could hand her off to (no this is not a the-eagles-should-have-taken-the-ring-to-mordor type argument, it’s a valid question why he had to be the one carrying her) unless you are a colossal idiot and/or there is something else going on. In Kylo’s case, it’s both. 

(Fun fact: my sister knew it was canon from this moment. I didn’t because actually I am a clueless bunny rabbit who takes a long time to figure stuff out.)

ANYWAY, the point is, of course, that the rest of The Force Awakens beautifully undoes the power dynamic established by him taking her captive and going through her mind without his consent. She forces herself into his mind exposing his fear and weakness to the audience and to himself and she escapes. I mean, if the movie stopped there, the power dynamic would have been leveled and they’d both be posited as equals but, as we know, the film doesn’t stop there and instead of just restoring the power imbalance they reverse it entirely. Rey kicks his ass, cuts his face open, and leaves him for dead. But not before he looks at her like this.

(Source)

The ending of the movie leaves you in no doubt about who’s in control and they’ve given you a definite answer to kylo’s villainous crush/offer to train Rey/bridal carry/you’re my guest- bit/and every other idiotic non-villainous thing he does because THE BOY HAS IT BAD and the answer is, quite rightly, a resounding hell no. And this is the real key to the appeal of this whole ship before the Last Jedi: his crush + her shut down of it, and the way both of those spark off each other. You get the fun of a Villain Feeling Feelings That He Doesn’t Understand and you get the thrill of a girl shutting down that scary possessiveness. (I mean I’d argue that it’s a little bit different from that because in the end kylo isn’t scary at all and he’s painted as this very damaged boy so to cheer for anyone, even Rey, to grind him even more into the dust borders on heartless to me? Because, like, he’s pathetic and we know this and the movie knows it.) But generally speaking, if you look at the pairing as it appears in The Force Awakens in very broad, primary brush strokes, he’s the Masked Monster claiming the Maiden as his own and so to subvert that not just by having Rey escape but by having Rey (essentially) unmask him, humiliate him, defeat him, and then mark him with her anger burning on his face makes for a great story.

So pre-TLJ I didn’t really know what they were going to do with Kylo’s villainous crush. I thought he was going to struggle with it and Snoke was going to berate him for it and he’d be like “AHHG I’M SO WEAK BUT REY IS SO COOL” (or something) :))) and he’d be even more the Byronic hero than he already is, struggling with his pull to the light specifically as it was embodied in his draw to Rey. But I didn’t see a way they were going to somehow reciprocate it and I didn’t know if they would. This trilogy has been really protective of Rey’s agency and even though she destroys him and snarls around him like a predatory wolf, there was a part of me that definitely thought they’d still keep her very much away from him? And that Rey would be the central aspect of Kylo’s arc but not the reverse, that he would get caught in her orbit but she’d stay on track.

But obviously that didn’t happen and instead we got compassion and interest and Rey’s romantic foolishness. Which now that I think about it is a pretty amazing parallel and a way better narrative choice than having her be inhuman about it/him. In TFA kylo wanted to “claim” rey as his own and so he got shut down and in TLJ Rey wanted to claim him as hers. And though obviously it is less “problematic” than kylo’s actions in tfa- she’s not a villain, and her heart and compassion and femininity make her want to save him not bridal carry him back to her ship 

(though I mean this is BASICALLY what she had in mind when she showed up on the Supremacy SO MAYBE I’M GIVING HER TOO MUCH CREDIT HERE :D)

there’s the same understanding that they’re supposed to be together and the same foolish effort to control the other’s actions that eventually backfires because that’s not how love works you fools, though of course it is expressed very differently in them by their different personalities and allegiances to the light/dark, good/evil respectively. 

And I really love that Rey fell for his pretty eyes and decided to save him- nothing is more human or feminine than this- and it’s really made me understand that this dynamic was never going to work very well if it was just one-sided and if Rey just maintained her hatred/lack of interest. Which to be perfectly honest the fandom and even me at times have superimposed on her because she has never been uninterested in him, just angry and hurt. She’s always been as aware of the bond between them as he is. He just had nothing to lose by reaching across it while she had everything to lose. In reality, the second she saw a spark of conflict she leapt without looking to reach him which *puts hand over my heart* I love her. She’s so ridiculous and real and lonely.

So Yeah, I don’t know where I’m going with this and I think I got very off topic but this is why I’m very excited for IX and if they follow what they’ve set up and follow the Rule of Three and complete the fairy tale/journey of growing up that they’ve started rey and ben will end up together without one of them dragging or bridal carrying the other to their respective sides- though I DO think that he’ll come back to the light and she won’t go dark, but the point is, he’ll choose it this time because it’s what he wants.

okay that’s all. Thanks for listening and asking!

[reyloeyesofmist]

Regarding Ben Solo (TLJ)

I think Kylo is unique because of this capacity he has for both Light and Dark. It's as if with everybody else one thing rules over the other and Sith were over 90% Dark and Jedi over 90% Light, so to speak. Ben Solo's misfurtune is that he was born with equal capacity for both and this is what Snoke tries to exploit to his gain. Anakin had a lot of Light in him, it's the same with Ben. Ben is like no other and this is what fascinates Snoke, this and his raw power, of course. But he isn't interested in training Rey the way he trained Kylo.

Snoke didn't even complete Kylo's training because he didn't want him to go full Sith/Dark, IMO. He wants him conflicted and unbalanced because then he is easier to control. Abuse victims never seem to get anything right, because as long as they keep on failing they'll depend on their abusers. Kylo's training wasn't supposed to be completed, not ever.

Kylo is in love with Rey, I know this wouldn't be possible in RL but SW is a fairy tale and he's coded as someone deeply in love, but he didn't enter that throne room with the idea of killing Snoke, just like Rey didn't imagine the Light Side without Luke and Leia and leading the Resistance herself. I think it's the same with Kylo, he was still trapped in Snoke's grasp and only beginning to realise he'd become his slave, so he thinks Rey will turn and they'll be both in the DS. As I see it, only his love for Rey and the hope for her loving him back made it possible for him to kill his tormentor.

I guess Han opened the first crack in his armour, coming back for him as he'd probably wanted so many times (“Han Solo. I've been waiting for this day for a long time.”) but he wasn't still ready to break the chain of abuse and manipulation he'd suffered for years. Then there comes Rey, she also comes to his rescue. She loves him too, what's more, she believes in him like nobody else did before. This is a huge difference and Han already opened his eyes to some extent telling him Snoke was using him and then he'd crush him. This time he takes a huge step and kills his abuser but it still isn't enought.

Why not? Maybe because TLJ is the second movie in a trilogy, maybe because this is a fairy tale and three times is the charm. Either way, it's too soon for Kylo to join Rey, not yet. He proposed twice and two people who loved him came to his rescue but his proposals were rejected (twice) and the rescue missions didn't succeed (twice). In IX the "spell" will be broken. The spell, the chain of abuse/conditioning and it's consequences on Ben's psyche, it's the same, it'll be broken and the prodigal son will come back.

The question is where he'll return to, because the Galaxy can't be seen in black and white any more, so Kylo's Dark Side (which includes his sensuality, his passion, his bursts of anger or even his being overly emotional can't be crushed because that's who he is, with lights and shadows.

This story is about balance and love, about loving (like Rose loves Finn) and setting all living things free (like Rose does with the space horses).

Many people say Ben Solo has to save himself and he does, but he needs help. Rey is the only one who understand this and is willing to send herself to him in a pod to set him free. Someone still could come back, with Rey's help, like Mazz said.

This story is telling us Ben needed help and never got it, that sometimes people need help to save themselves and loving them is not enough because they also need support and acceptance. Otherwise they remain hopeless and lost in the Dark.

The storylines are intertwined and FinnRose is telling us what we can expect from Reylo because they are very much like Kylo and Rey and their stories are moving in the same direction. Also, Rose teaches Finn and the audience what really matters, saving what we love.

When they destroy the casino, during their unfulfilled mission, Finn is happy to have caused all that damage at least, but Rose teaches him that is empty, that what makes it worth it is setting the horses free. In the end this is what matters because there'll be more battles, the rich people in the casino will rebuild it again and go on selling weapons to both sides, so the Resistance is a long distance race and it's necessary to try once and again, but without forgetting those we love.

And this is where the Golden Trio failed. Although they were role models for the whole Galaxy they didn't manage to save what they loved, Ben Solo. And Ben was their future, their only hople, because this is what our children are, this is what young people are, hope for the future.

This doesn't make them bad, just human. What Luke did to Ben was his darkest moment, but he isn't evil, just human. If Han, Luke and Leia's failures and mistakes can be forgiven, what about Ben's? I hope he can be forgiven too.