#tolkien pointed out that faramir/éowyn is not happening in a 'courtly' setting à la medieval courtly romance but something older and nobler
Explore tagged Tumblr posts
Text
Just thinking about Gondor, as usual, and how wild it is that the (supposedly minority!) population of Gondorians who speak Sindarin and/or know Quenya at the end of the Third Age is likely higher than the combined number of all Elves still remaining in Middle-earth who can speak either.
Tolkien's specific statement is that more Men speak Sindarin or know Quenya than Elves do either, but while this group of Men would encompass people like the Northern Dúnedain, Théoden, etc, the letter directly links this to Gondorian usage of Sindarin and Quenya. That does make sense given the extreme population disparities involved; the vast majority of the Men in question would pretty much have to come from Gondor. Certainly, the only place where we actually see widespread, casual, local Sindarin usage among Men is Minas Tirith (though we know the linguistic patterns of MT are also characteristic of Dol Amroth and likely throughout much of Belfalas).
In addition, Tolkien tried to make sense of the limited evolution of Gondorian Sindarin by saying it's an acquired polite language among Númenórean aristocratic elites and scholars. In the actual process of writing LOTR there were various explanations (in one draft Faramir explains that Westron is a Gondorian conlang invented for dealings with other peoples, for instance). But Tolkien's standard justification for Gondorian Sindarin being so recognizable soon settled on an idea that Gondorian Sindarin is a language of the elites taught to them in childhood and used as a courtesy or mark of high status rather than evolving naturally.
I've always found this explanation a bit odd given that in the main narrative of LOTR, the Gondorian groups we see using Sindarin in full sentences/conversations rather than for specific names like Mithrandir or isolated words are mainly Gondorian soldiers outside of leadership roles. Faramir's men in Ithilien switch to "another language of their own" that turns out to be Sindarin. In the streets of Minas Tirith, "many" random soldiers call out to each other in Sindarin to gossip about Pippin. The almost entirely Gondorian armies following Aragorn praise the hobbits in Sindarin and Quenya.
But if we take Tolkien's statement at face value, the implication is that Númenórean elites in Gondor (i.e. a small fraction of the overall Gondorian population) outnumber the combined populations of all Sindarin- or Quenya-speaking Elves remaining in Middle-earth.
Many Elves have left or died, yes, but we're still talking about the Elves of Rivendell and of Lothlórien and all the ones scattered throughout Lindon, combined. If they really are outnumbered by Gondor's ruling aristocracy alone, I think the usual estimates of Gondor's overall population must be far too low. Tolkien simply noted that the population of Minas Tirith and its fiefs (presumably referring to Lossarnach, Anórien etc), while declined from the past, must have still been "much greater" than the combined Elvish populations of Rivendell, Lothlórien, and Lindon. That's not even getting into the more outlying fiefs of Gondor like densely-populated Belfalas.
(Alternatively, you could fanwank that Sindarin/Quenya are more widely spoken in Gondor than this and thus the population disparities, while certainly present, are not quite so extreme as this suggests. But that interpretation does require ignoring explicit statements from Tolkien in a way that something like theorizing population based on vague canonical suggestions is typically going to avoid doing.)
#why do so many people insist on using western medieval european militarization or population ratios for gondor though...#i mean. i know why but it's still a very strange choice imo#even setting aside the fact that gondor was not remotely based on medieval france or england or whatever#middle-earth c. lotr is a sometimes medieval-ish-flavored prehistorical setting which is often demographically very distinct#from actual medieval western europe#it's an ancient setting with many preternaturally strong 6-8' tall people who regularly live into their 90s and beyond#tolkien pointed out that faramir/éowyn is not happening in a 'courtly' setting à la medieval courtly romance but something older and nobler#any given place could have way more or way less people than medieval france bc it's not medieval france#(sorry to bully the medieval french but tolkien would)#anghraine babbles#long post#ondonórë blogging#legendarium blogging#lord of the rings#jrr tolkien#legendarium fanwank#sindarin#quenya#anghraine's meta#linguistic stuff
32 notes
·
View notes