#this probably isn't coherent aha

[justabigassnerd]

Not So Little Anymore

Pairing - Bradley 'Rooster' Bradshaw x daughter!reader

Word count - 2,573

Warnings - mentions of sex, lil' bit of Rooster being a protective dad, mostly fluff

Summary - Rooster discovers something in his daughters cupboard causing him to realise his little girl isn't as little as she used to be

A/N - whaddup y'all it's me posting another fic! This was another anon request that I hope I did justice to because not only have I never had a parent give me the sex talk, I'm asexual aha. Anyways I'll stop rambling now. As per y'all, please send in requests, feedback and enjoy!!

It was a rare day off for Bradley. There was no training. No classes to teach. And most importantly, no paperwork. You had gone off to school earlier after he made you some breakfast and bid you goodbye with a kiss on the top of your head. Since the house was quiet, Bradley decided to do some of the chores he’d been meaning to do for a while.

He was a lot more productive than he was expecting. He reorganised the garage and gave the Bronco a long overdue wash. He managed to oil the hinges on the squeaky door that had been driving both him and you nuts with its incessant squeaking. When Bradley had finished every chore that came to find, he got himself a glass of water and silently debated his next move. He then remembered that you’d complained about the sink in your ensuite bathroom leaking and so he grabbed the toolbox from the garage and made his way to your bathroom to see if he could fix it himself. He didn’t know what the cause of the leak was so he opened the cupboard underneath the sink and had a look at the pipe but wasn’t able to see it since your cupboard was full of stuff so he started taking the stuff out and when he moved a box of tampons, he couldn’t believe what he was staring at. His eyes locked onto an open box of condoms and his brain struggled to formulate any kind of coherent thought as he stared at the box. When his brain finally caught up, he reached out and took the box out of the cupboard and put it aside so he could focus on fixing the sink.

Once he fixed the sink and returned everything to the cupboard, Bradley got a text from Hangman asking if he was going to be joining the rest of the squad at the Hard Deck. Bradley replied saying that he would be coming while silently hoping Phoenix will be amongst those who are going to the bar since he could use her advice on how to have a talk with you about the discovery he made in the cupboard. His mind couldn’t stop thinking about those condoms and how he could even begin to approach this conversation with you.

He got a follow-up text from Hangman at half-four saying that the squad were heading to the bar, and he replied saying he’d meet them there. You still hadn’t come home but you had sent him a text earlier saying you were going to a friend’s house so he let you know that he was going to the Hard Deck and probably wouldn’t be home when you got back. After hitting send he showered and changed, throwing a Hawaiian shirt over his white t-shirt and tugging on a pair of blue jeans. As he grabs his phone from his bedside table his eyes land on a picture of you and him from your sixth birthday party. He had you sat on his shoulders as you giggled uncontrollably. He picked up the wooden frame and held it for a moment, a soft smile on his face as he reminisced. He was shaken out of his thoughts by his phone ringing, seeing Payback’s name flash across his phone made him sigh, put down the photo and pick up the call.

“Payback, what’s up?” He asks when the phone reaches his ear, immediately hearing the rowdiness of the Hard Deck and Dagger Squad in the background.

“What do you mean, what’s up? You said you’d meet us here and we’re still waiting on you.” Payback says the second he hears Bradley’s voice.

“I’m just coming now, cool your jets.” Bradley laughs as he heads downstairs, grabbing the keys to the Bronco before promising he’ll be there soon and ending the call. He then tugs his shoes on and heads out to his car to begin the drive to the Hard Deck.

When he arrives at the Hard Deck, he climbs out of the Bronco and enters the bar, letting out a small sigh of relief when he sees Phoenix amongst the cluster of naval aviators, Maverick included, by the pool table. He heads over to the group and greets them as they grin and clap him on the back.

“I’m going to grab a drink.” He says, quickly excusing himself to get a beer from Penny at the bar and once he’s got his drink he returns to the group, asking them how they found their day and chatting until he found a moment to pull Phoenix aside.

“Can I talk to you for a moment?” He asks as he moves Phoenix away from the group and nervously takes a sip from his drink.

“Of course, you can. Is everything okay?” Phoenix asks kindly, making Rooster remember why Phoenix was his best friend in the first place. She was always willing to help him out when he needed her.

“It’s about y/n.” Rooster starts.

“Is she okay?” Phoenix asks, alarmed and worried that something has happened to you.

“She’s fine it's just. She’s been complaining about her leaky sink for a while now, and I went up there to fix it earlier today.”

“You’re asking me to fix her sink?” Phoenix asks, confused as to where Rooster was going with this.

“I found an open box of condoms in her cupboard under the sink.” Rooster says quickly, almost flinching as he said it like the words physically hurt him to say.

“What the hell did you just say?” Phoenix and Rooster’s heads snap to see the wide eyes of Dagger Squad and Maverick who look appalled at what they just heard.

“This was meant to be a private conversation.” Rooster grumbles, glaring over his friends.

“We heard y/n and we had to know whether she was okay or not.” Fanboy shrugs unapologetically as the others murmur in agreement.

“Well you know she’s fine so you can mind your own business now.” Rooster mutters lowly as he sips from his beer, glancing at Phoenix who just shrugs.

“How can we when you dropped that bombshell?” Payback implores, throwing his hands up wildly.

“She’s a child.” Maverick says, hating the idea of you being within five feet of a guy who wasn’t him or part of Dagger Squad. The team gets loud as what Rooster said sinks in more and more.

“Okay, enough guys!” Phoenix says loudly, getting the attention of the whole group within seconds.

“She is not a child. She’s seventeen and I bet none of you guys could say you weren’t doing the same things at her age.” Phoenix says, folding her arms across her chest and raising an eyebrow as Dagger Squad begins to shuffle uncomfortably and mumble to each other, proving her point. Phoenix then grabs Rooster’s arm and pulls him further away from the group, so they are entirely out of earshot.

“You need to talk about this with her Bradley. You need to make sure she is aware of everything so you can prevent things like accidental pregnancies. And please make sure she knows about her right to say no. I know this is probably a talk that’s awkward but she needs her dad to help with these kinds of things. You have to teach her about the world and if that’s giving her the sex talk then damn it you’re going to give her the sex talk.” Phoenix says once the Daggers have returned to their own conversations, so she knew the focus wasn’t on them anymore.

“I know Phoenix, it’s just hard. I swear it was only yesterday she was the little girl begging me to sit her on my shoulders.” Rooster says, thinking back to the picture he had sat proudly on his bedside table. Her stern look softens, and Phoenix smiles softly and rests a hand on Rooster’s arm.

“She’s always going to be your little girl, Bradley. She’s just not as little as she used to be.” Phoenix says gently as Rooster takes a sip of beer.

“I know.” Rooster admits, hanging his head in his sorrow.

“Hey, let’s have some fun tonight. Someone needs to beat Hangman in pool and my money’s on you. Just talk with y/n as soon as possible.” Phoenix urges as she brings Rooster back over to the pool table so he could take his mind off the situation. The rest of the night was filled with laughter and fun as Rooster finally beat Hangman in pool, much to Hangman and Coyote’s dismay. When Rooster headed home for the night, he felt a little more confident in approaching the conversation with you.

The next evening, Bradley worked up the courage to talk to you. He approached your door slowly and knocked cautiously. Waiting for you to give him the okay to come in. When you finally said he could come in, he entered slowly, offering you a small smile.

“Hey, dad.” You greeted with a smile as you looked up from the book you were reading while you were sitting up against the headboard of your bed.

“Hey y/n/n, can we talk?” Bradley asks quietly, making your expression quickly shift to one of worry as you nod.

“You’re not in trouble. I just want to talk.” Bradley elaborates as he eases himself down to sit on your bed and glances over at you as you visibly relax at his words.

“Okay, what’s up?” You ask as you close your book, placing it back on your bedside table as you focus your attention on your dad who clears his throat.

“So I fixed your sink yesterday.” Bradley starts, glancing from the floor to you as you grin.

“You did and I totally forgot to thank you for that. So, thank you, dad.” You smile as you shuffle over to give him a hug. He wastes no time in returning the hug, relishing holding you in his arms before pulling away.

“And when I emptied out your cupboard to have a look at what was going on underneath the sink I found a box of condoms.” Bradley then says, raising an eyebrow as you squirm uncomfortably and avoid his gaze. You even shuffle back to sit against the headboard of your bed again.

“Dad we really don’t need to be talking about this.” You insist, your face flushing a deep red as you fiddle with the corner of your duvet cover to distract yourself.

“Sweetheart, we do need to talk about this. I need to make sure you’re smart about this. If you’re having sex, I need to be sure you’re safe. I don’t want you to end up accidentally becoming pregnant or anything.”

“Dad, please stop talking.” You plead, burying your face in your hands.

“Not going to happen. I also need you to know you have the right to say no. Don’t let anyone pressure you into having sex if you don’t want to. The same goes for the other way around, your partners have the right to say no too so always respect their choices okay?” Bradley continues, turning slightly so he could face you while you continued to avoid eye contact with him.

“Dad, the school gives us these talks. I know how to be safe. Me and Ethan are always safe.” You insist, getting the courage to look up and meet your dad’s eyes. Bradley saw your eyes widen slightly as you revealed the boy’s name, but Bradley wasn’t going to be mad at you, not when he was doing the same thing at your age.

“I know honey, but sometimes things like condoms aren’t always one hundred percent safe. Trust me, I thought I was safe and then nine months later I have a newborn living in my house. You and Ethan don’t need a kid at this age.” Bradley chuckles as the corners of your mouth twitch up into a small smile. Bradley had been open with telling you that he wasn’t planning on having kids until he settled down with someone. He told you once you were old enough since you had been constantly asking where your mum was when you were younger and saw all the other kids your age with their mums. When Bradley initially told you about how he never planned to be a father at this point, you thought it meant you were a mistake and you were unwanted. Bradley had put a stop to those thoughts instantly as he held you tight and told you that even though he never planned on having you, you were still the best thing that happened in his life, and he’d never trade you for the world.

“My point is, if you’re having sex, I want you to take measures to avoid pregnancy, especially at this age. We could look at getting you on the pill just to be on the safe side.” Bradley then offers, watching as you silently debate about whether to accept his offer or not.

“That probably would be safer, wouldn’t it?” You admit quietly as Bradley nods.

“It would be, yes.” Bradley says, making you feel comfortable with the choice.

“We’ll look at getting some this weekend, alright? But for now, I want to hear more about this Ethan guy.” Bradley says with an amused smile as you groan.

“I didn’t mean to say his name.” You grumble but scoot closer to your dad’s side, curling into him as he wraps an arm around you.

“Well you did and I want to know if he’s good to you.” Bradley says, smiling down at you as you look up at him.

“He’s nice. He cares about me. And he respects me. We’ve both had a couple of times where we’ve not wanted to have sex and we’ve respected each other.” You say, making Bradley press a kiss to the top of your head.

“I’m glad he respects you. Never be with someone who doesn’t respect you. And I’m glad you respect him too.” Bradley says as you smile up at him lightly. As Bradley looks down at you, he is overcome with emotions as he thinks about how much he loves you and how proud he is of the person you’re becoming. He finds himself tearing up slightly and when you notice it, you become concerned.

“Are you okay, dad?” You ask worriedly as he lifts a hand to wipe at his tears.

“They’re happy tears sweetheart, nothing to worry about.” He assures you with a smile as you relax back into his embrace.

“You’re just growing up too fast, that’s all. You’re not a little girl anymore.” Bradley continues as you raise an eyebrow.

“Is that not a good thing? It means you don’t have to look after me as much anymore and you can be your own person without having to drag a kid around everywhere.” You question, confused about why your dad was getting emotional over such a thing. In response, Bradley wrapped his other arm around you and tugged you impossibly closer, feeling as if he was holding the entire world in his arms. He may not have been holding the whole world in his arms. But he was holding his world. He then pressed another few kisses to the top of your head and ran a hand through your hair.

“You’ll understand one day, sweetheart.”

[hpowellsmith]

Saturday question: what do you think about NPCs making romantic advances to the PC - making the very first move (rather than making advances once you're dating/romancing)?

I absolutely LOVE it when NPCs make advances on MC! I always make my characters very hot, so it’s weird that I have to initiate everything. I love to feel like my MC is irresistible! 😁 Having said that, there’s one particular thing that I hate: when people of gender my MC is not attracted to make advances on my character. The reason for this is very subjective: when I play as a gay character (which is most of the time), I really don’t want to see any heterosexuality directed at my character even if it stays unreciprocated. Though I’m okay with nonbinary NPCs flirting with the MC, as long as it’s not opposite gender. I hope it’s not a hateful reason, I just fed up with heterosexuality irl; I have nothing against straight people, I promise! 😂 Anyway, I brought this up because you said you were considering potentially making romanceable NPCs specific genders rather than gender-selectable, so I thought it was worth mentioning. But for this to work the game also has to let players choose MC's preferences, which you stopped doing after Blood Money.

Other than that I’m happy with NPCs initiating things, even if I’m romancing someone else in this playthrough. Turning someone down can also be an interesting interaction for roleplaying: does MC bluntly crash someone’s dreams, or turn them down smoothly and gently? Or perhaps MC feels so flustered that they can’t formulate a coherent way to indicate they aren’t interested, and the poor NPC has to figure it out themselves through social cues. 😆 It could be an interesting moment for both MC and NPC! It also allows us to play as someone truly shy without breaking the character because we have to initiate flirting. And even if sometimes I enjoy making a first step, I love the variety that letting NPCs take initiative can bring to the story.

this is in response to the question:

what do you think about NPCs making romantic advances to the PC - making the very first move (rather than making advances once you're dating/romancing)? Do you prefer to control when initial flirting or asking-out happens, do you like them to initiate something, a combination, or does it depend on something else (eg how much you like the character)?

I always make my characters very hot, so it’s weird that I have to initiate everything. I love to feel like my MC is irresistible! 😁

I love this, I'm picturing your MC living their best life getting fanned with those big feather fans by their admirers :D

Anyway, I brought this up because you said you were considering potentially making romanceable NPCs specific genders rather than gender-selectable, so I thought it was worth mentioning. But for this to work the game also has to let players choose MC's preferences, which you stopped doing after Blood Money.

With NPCs making advances when they're not compatible with the MC's orientation... that's such a complex thing, aha. I did have an orientation question in Blood Money but then stopped doing it... I have a lot of thoughts about it and will probably ask a proper question about it sometime (buuut those discussions always end up with people saying bisexuality isn't real and/or that they don't want to date trans characters so it's a bit fraught for me) (not that you're saying either of those things, but sometimes people are... really keen to jump in with those comments!)

(BTW after a lot of thought, I landed on doing gender-selectable characters for my next fantasy game, with some who are always trans in the same way I did in Honor Bound, but if I write something set in the real world they'll be a mix of cis and trans set-gender characters.)

Turning someone down can also be an interesting interaction for roleplaying

I quite like enjoy this when I play too, although when I'm writing I find it quite hard to figure out making it fun! (I do really enjoy writing the resolution of an incompatible love triangle though, where the MC has to choose between two characters.)

Thank you for your thoughts!

[generalluxun]

This is an interesting read. My gut reaction was 'First Time meme here'. 🤣 (but I didn't stop with gut reaction or I wouldn't post!)

It's probably a mix of Age+interests but I've seen this sort of wave happen several times. Take videogames. No, I don't mean the recent expansion and gamergate drama. No, I'm talking way back when consoles 'happened'. (Xbox Era, I know they existed before PCs but the death of Atari killed them off for a while) suddenly dudebros were everywhere, CoD and Madden and all sorts of people who had *beat up the people who played videogames* sprawling all over our corner of the world. These guys had never sent an entire computer lab of C64's into If-then loops when a teacher walked out! They were just using our beloved section of the world to facilitate their own mainstream 'masculine' fantasies in new ways. They ate up budgets that could have gone to other games! There was no internet-fandom like there is now then, but they ate up print-media space. They demanded the platform cater to their needs.

Just one example of many. RPGs, Anime, scads of niche hobbies pried open so that the 'normies' can lay all over it and tell us how it should be changed to better suit them. This isn't a rant against these things, it's just an observation that it's not very new, even when not looking at the equality struggle elements.

So what's my point? Well first let me say what's it's not. This isn't a wagging finger and admonition about how you should or should not feel shamed or utilize your own content. It's more a 'food for thought' I'm not drawing a line here, I'm just trying to add more ideas in for people to utilize when drawing their own lines.

-And aha I have come up with a coherent conclusion, so this won't JUST be a ramble by the end.

Bad actors are always a thing. If someone wants to steal content, making an account is no barrier. Weaseling in to find 'good' content to steal is probably even more efficient in the long run. If someone wants to be awful they will too. As someone who at one point years ago had someone using multiple accounts to accuse me of things I not only didn't do, but was physically incapable of doing... trust me. 😅 The idea is advanced that Lurkers are a good thing, and I would go one step further to say they are essential. Stagnation is the bane of all creative spaces. Closed ecosystems stagnate. Lurkers who decide to step in are your fresh infusions over time. How many will turn away if they must pass muster before they can even digest the content? I'll even go one step further. Tourists are essential now too. Why? Because as has been stated, everyone is online. Tourists are everywhere. Lurker is no longer the first step. A tourist who hangs about ends up being a lurker. That lurker over time might become a creator. They might not. Heck, lots won't. And yes some are going to be very 'Touristy' this is our new pipeline though.

If we start closing gates and locking doors as a fandom, we stymie that flow and the fandom will suffer in the long run.

So I think there's a better question than 'Should we as a fandom, gatekeep?' I think the answer to that is just 'no.' It's not healthy in the long run. That's setting aside the concept of slippery slopes, fracturing, etc. etc.

Now what *IS* an extremely important and valid question is 'Should I, personally, gatekeep for my mental well being?' THAT is something only you can answer, and the answer to which may even change and change back over time. No one should fault you for it. At the end of the day it's your stuff and your heart/head. I've got comment moderation on for my fics because I've had people post some things I felt were completely unnecessary, beyond the one-time personal attacks. (Character spite, etc) Anyone can look, and anyone can write something I see, but the *fandom* space I will try to keep clean. That's my personal 'line'. It's no more or less valid than anyone else's personal line for their work.

There's a tendency to universalize our experiences. It's perfectly normal. No one wants to be the 'odd one out' no one wants to be the person locking their gate when others leave them wide. I think though this is a case where we need to recognize what is healthy for the individual and what is healthy for the collective can diverge. They can diverge but they can also coexist.

Fandom can do a little gatekeeping. As a treat.

So I finally decided to archive-lock my fics on AO3 last night. I’ve been considering it since the AI scrape last year, but the tipping point was this whole lore.fm debacle, coupled with some thoughts I’ve been thinking regarding Fandom These Days in general and Fandom As A Community in particular. So I wanna explain why I waited so long, why I locked my stuff up now, and why I’ve come to the conclusion that I’m a-okay with making it harder for people to see my stories.

Lurkers really are great, tho

I’m a chronic lurker, and have been since I started hanging out on the internet as a teen in the 00s. These days it’s just cuz I don’t feel a need to socialize very often, but back then it was because I was shy and knew I was socially awkward. Even if I made an account, I’d spend months lurking on message boards or forums or Livejournals, watching other people interact and getting a feel for that particular community’s culture and etiquette before I finally started interacting myself. And y’know, that approach saved me a lot of embarrassment. Over the course of my lurking on any site, there was always some other person who’d clearly joined up five minutes after learning the place existed, barged in without a care for their behavior, and committed so many social faux pas that all the other users were immediately annoyed with them at best. I learned a lot observing those incidents. Lurk More is Rule 33 of the internet for very good reason.

Lurking isn’t bad or weird or creepy. It’s perfectly normal. I love lurking. It’s hard for me to not lurk - socializing takes a lot of energy out of me, even via text. (Heck it took 12 hours for me to write this post, I wish I was kidding--) Occasionally I’ll manage longer bouts of interaction - a few weeks posting here, almost a year chatting in a discord there - but I’m always gonna end up going radio silent for months at some point. I used to feel bad about it, but I’ve long since made peace with the fact that it’s just the way my brain works. I’m a chronic lurker, and in the long term nothing is going to change that.

The thing with being a chronic lurker is that you have to accept that you are not actually seen as part of the community you are lurking in. That’s not to say that lurkers are unimportant - lurkers actually are important, and they make up a large proportion of any online community - but it’s simple cause and effect. You may think of it as “your community”, but if you’ve never said a word, how is the community supposed to know you exist? If I lurked on someone’s LJ, and then that person suddenly friendslocked their blog, I knew that I had two choices: Either accept that I would never be able to read their posts again, or reach out to them and ask if I could be added to their friends list with the full understanding that I was a rando they might not decide to trust. I usually went with the first option, because my invisibility as a lurker was more important to me than talking to strangers on the internet.

Lurking is like sitting on a park bench, quietly people-watching and eavesdropping on the conversations other people are having around you. You’re in the park, but you’re not actively participating in anything happening there. You can see and hear things that you become very interested in! But if you don’t introduce yourself and become part of the conversation, you won’t be able to keep listening to it when those people walk away. When fandom migrated away from Livejournal, people moved to new platforms alongside their friends, but lurkers were often left behind. No one knew they existed, so they weren’t told where everyone else was going. To be seen as part of a fandom community, you need to submit to the mortifying ordeal of being known, etc. etc.

There’s nothing wrong with lurking. There can actually be benefits to lurking, both for the lurkers and the communities they lurk in. It’s just another way to be in a fandom. But if that is how you exist in fandom--and remember, I say this as someone who often does exist that way in fandom--you need to remember that you’re on the outside looking in, and the curtains can always close.

I’ve always been super sympathetic to lurkers, because I am one. I know there’s a lot of people like me who just don’t socialize often. I know there’s plenty of reasons why someone might not make an account on the internet - maybe they’re nervous, maybe they’re young and their parents don’t allow them to, maybe they’re in a bad situation where someone is monitoring their activity, maybe they can only access the internet from public computer terminals. Heck, I’ve never even logged into AO3 on my phone--if I’m away from my computer I just read what’s publicly available. 

I know I have people lurking on my fics. I know my fics probably mean a lot to someone I don’t even know exists. I know this because there are plenty of fics I love whose writers don’t know I exist.

I love my commenters personally; I love my lurkers as an abstract concept. I know they’re there and I wish them well, and if they ever de-lurk I love them all the more.

So up until last year I never considered archive-locking my fic, because I get it. The AI scraping was upsetting, but I still hesitated because I was thinking of lurkers and guests and remembering what it felt like to be 15 and wondering if it’d be worth letting a stranger on the internet know I existed and asking to be added to their friends list just so I could reread a funny post they made once.

But the internet has changed a lot since the 00s, and fandom has changed with it. I’ve read some things and been doing some thinking about fandom-as-community over the last few years, and reading through the lore.fm drama made me decide that it’s time for me to set some boundaries.

I still love my lurkers, and I feel bad about leaving any guest commenters behind, especially if they’re in a situation where they can’t make an account for some reason. But from here on out, even my lurkers are going to have to do the bare minimum to read my fics--make an AO3 account.

Should we gatekeep fandom?

I’ve seen a few people ask this question, usually rhetorically, sometimes as a joke, always with a bit of seriousness. And I think…yeah, maybe we should. Except wait, no, not like that--

A decade ago, when people talked about fandom gatekeeping and why it was bad to do, it intersected with a lot of other things, mainly feminism and classism. The prevalent image of fandom gatekeeping was, like, a man learning that a woman likes Star Wars and haughtily demanding, “Oh, yeah? Well if you’re REALLY a fan, name ten EU novels” to belittle and dismiss her, expecting that a “real fan” would have the money and time to be familiar with the EU, and ignoring the fact that male movie-only fans were still considered fans. The thing being gatekept was the very definition of “being a fan” and people’s right to describe themselves as one.

That’s not what I mean when I say maybe fandom should gatekeep more. Anyone can call themselves a fan if they like something, that’s fine. But when it comes to the ability to enjoy the fanworks produced by the fandom community…that might be something worth gatekeeping.

See, back in the 00s, it was perfectly common for people to just…not go on the internet. Surfing the web was a thing, but it was just, like, a fun pastime. Not everyone did it. It wasn’t until the rise of social media that going online became a thing everyone and their grandmother did every day. Back then, going on the internet was just…a hobby.

So one of the first gates online fandom ever had was the simple fact that the entire world wasn’t here yet.

The entire world is here now. That gate has been demolished.

And it’s a lot easier to find us now. Even scattered across platforms, fandom is so centralized these days. It isn’t a network of dedicated webshrines and forums that you can only find via webrings anymore, it’s right there on all the big social media sites. AO3 didn’t set out to be the main fanfic website, but that’s definitely what it’s become. It’s easy for people to find us--and that includes people who don’t care about the community, and just want “content.”

Transformative fandom doesn’t like it when people see our fanworks as “content”. “Content” is a pretty broad term, but when fandom uses it we’re usually referring to creative works that are churned out by content creators to be consumed by an audience as quickly as possible as often as possible so that the content creator can generate revenue. This not-so-new normal has caused a massive shift in how people who are new to fandom view fanworks--instead of seeing fic or art as something a fellow fan made and shared with you, they see fanworks as products to be consumed.

Transformative fandom has, in general, always been a gift economy. We put time and effort into creating fanworks that we share with our fellow fans for free. We do this so we don’t get sued, but fandom as a whole actually gets a lot out of the gift economy. Offer your community a story, and in return you can get comments, build friendships, or inspire other people to write things that you might want to read. Readers are given the gift of free stories to read and enjoy, and while lurking is fine, they have the choice to engage with the writer and other readers by leaving comments or making reclists to help build the community.

And look, don’t get me wrong. People have never engaged with fanfic as much as fan writers wish they would. There has always been “no one comments anymore” wank. There have always been people who only comment to say “MORE!” or otherwise demand or guilt trip writers into posting the next chapter. But fandom has always agreed that those commenters are rude and annoying, and as those commenters navigate fandom they have the chance to learn proper community etiquette.

However, now it seems that a lot of the people who are consuming fanworks aren’t actually in the community. 

I won’t say “they aren’t real fans” because that’s silly; there’s lots of ways to be a fan. But there seem to be a lot of fans now who have no interest in fandom as a community, or in adhering to community etiquette, or in respecting the gift economy. They consume our fics, but they don’t appreciate fan labor. They want our “content”, but they don’t respect our control over our creations.

And even worse--they see us as a resource. We share our work for free, as a gift, but all they see is an open-source content farm waiting to be tapped into. We shared it for free, so clearly they can do whatever they want with it. Why should we care if they feed our work into AI training datasets, or copy/paste our unfinished stories into ChatGPT to get an ending, or charge people for an unnecessary third-party AO3 app, or sell fanbindings on etsy for a profit without the author’s permission, or turn our stories into poor imitations of podfics to be posted on other platforms without giving us credit or asking our consent, while also using it to lure in people they can datascrape for their Forbes 30 Under 30 company? 

And sure, people have been doing shady things with other people’s fanworks since forever. Art theft and reposting has always been a big problem. Fanfic is harder to flat-out repost, but I’ve heard of unauthorized fic translations getting posted without crediting the original author. Once in…I think the 2010s? I read a post by a woman who had gone to some sort of local bookselling event, only to find that the man selling “his” novel had actually self-published her fanfic. (Wish I could find that one again, I don’t even remember where I read it.)

But aside from that third example, the thing is…as awful as fanart/writing theft is, back in the day, the main thing a thief would gain from it was clout. Clout that should rightfully go to the creators who gifted their work in the first place, yeah, but still. Just clout. People will do a lot of hurtful things for clout, but fandom clout means nothing outside of fandom. Fandom clout is not enough to incentivize the sort of wide-scale pillaging we’re seeing from community outsiders today.

Money, on the other hand… Well, fandom’s just a giant, untapped content farm, isn’t it? Think of how much revenue all that content could generate.

Lurkers are a normal and even beneficial part of any online community. Maybe one day they’ll de-lurk and easily slide into place beside their fellow fans because they already know the etiquette. Maybe they’re active in another community, and they can spread information from the community they lurk in to the community they’re active in. At the very least, they silently observe, and even if they’re not active community members, they understand the community.

Fans who see fanworks as “content” don’t belong in the same category as lurkers. They’re tourists. 

While reading through the initial Reddit thread on the lore.fm situation, I found this comment:

[ID: Reddit User Cabbitowo says: ... So in anime fandoms we have a word called tourist and essentially it means a fan of a few anime and doesn't care about anime tropes and actively criticizes them. This is kind of how fandoms on tiktok feel. They're touring fanfics and fanart and actively criticizes tropes that have been in the fandom since the 60s. They want to be in a fandom but they don't want to engage in fandom 

OP totallymandy responds: Just entered back into Reddit after a long day to see this most recent reply. And as a fellow anime fan this making me laugh so much since it’s true! But it sorta hurts too when the reality sets in. Modern fandom is so entitled and bratty and you’d think it’s the minors only but that’s not even true, my age-mates and older seem to be like that. They want to eat their cake and complain all whilst bringing nothing to the potluck… :/ END ID]

-

“Tourist” is an apt name for this sort of fan. They don’t want to be part of our community, and they don’t have to be in order to come into our spaces and consume our work. Even if they don’t steal our work themselves, they feel so entitled to it that they’re fine with ignoring our wishes and letting other people take it to make AI “podfics” for them to listen to (there are a lot of comments on lore.fm’s shutdown announcement video from people telling them to just ignore the writers and do it anyway). They’ll use AI to generate an ending to an unfinished fic because they don’t care about seeing “the ending this writer would have given to the story they were telling”, they just want “an ending”. For these tourist fans, the ends justify the means, and their end goal is content for them to consume, with no care for the community that created it for them in the first place.

I don’t think this is confined to a specific age group. This isn’t “13-year-olds on Wattpad” or “Zoomers on TikTok” or whatever pointless generation war we’re in now. This is coming from people who are new to fandom, whose main experience with creative works on the internet is this new content culture and who don’t understand fandom as a community. That description can be true of someone from any age group.

It’s so easy to find fandom these days. It is, in fact, too easy. Newcomers face no hurdles or challenges that would encourage them to lurk and observe a bit before engaging, and it’s easy for people who would otherwise move on and leave us alone to start making trouble. From tourist fans to content entrepreneurs to random people who just want to gawk, it’s so easy for people who don’t care about the fandom community to reap all of its fruits. 

So when I say maybe fandom should start gatekeeping a bit, I’m referring to the fact that we barely even have a gate anymore. Everyone is on the internet now; the entire world can find us, and they don’t need to bother learning community etiquette when they do. Before, we were protected by the fact that fandom was considered weird and most people didn’t look at it twice. Now, fandom is pretty mainstream. People who never would’ve bothered with it before are now comfortable strolling in like they own the place. They have no regard for the fandom community, they don’t understand it, and they don’t want to. They want to treat it just like the rest of the content they consume online.

And then they’re surprised when those of us who understand fandom culture get upset. Fanworks have existed far longer than the algorithmic internet’s content. Fanworks existed long before the internet. We’ve lived like this for ages and we like it.

So if someone can’t be bothered to respect fandom as a community, I don’t see why I should give them easy access to my fics.

Think of it like a garden gate

When I interact with commenters on my fic, I have this sense of hospitality.

The comment section is my front porch. The fic is my garden. I created my garden because I really wanted to, and I’m proud of it, and I’m happy to share it with other people. 

Lots of people enjoy looking at my garden. Many walk through without saying anything. Some stop to leave kudos. Some recommend my garden to their friends. And some people take the time to stop by my front porch and let me know what a beautiful garden it is and how much they’ve enjoyed it. 

Any fic writer can tell you that getting comments is an incredible feeling. I always try to answer all my comments. I don’t always manage it, but my fics’ comment sections are the one place that I manage to consistently socialize in fandom. When I respond to a comment, it feels like I’m pouring out a glass of lemonade to share with this lovely commenter on my front porch, a thank you for their thank you. We take a moment to admire my garden together, and then I see them out. The next time they drop by, I recognize them and am happy to pour another glass of lemonade.

My garden has always been open and easy to access. No fences, no walls. You just have to know where to find it. Fandom in general was once protected by its own obscurity, an out-of-the-way town that showed up on maps but was usually ignored.

But now there’s a highway that makes it easy to get to, and we have all these out-of-towner tourists coming in to gawk and steal our lawn ornaments and wonder if they can use the place to make themselves some money.

I don’t care to have those types trampling over my garden and eating all my vegetables and digging up my flowers to repot and sell, so I’ve put up a wall. It has a gate that visitors can get through if they just take the time to open it.

Admittedly, it’s a small obstacle. But when I share my fics, I share them as a gift with my fellow fans, the ones who understand that fandom is a community, even if they’re lurkers. As for tourist fans and entrepreneurs who see fic as content, who have no qualms ignoring the writer’s wishes, who refuse to respect or understand the fandom community…well, they’re not the people I mean to share my fic with, so I have no issues locking them out. If they want access to my stories, they’ll have to do the bare minimum to become a community member and join the AO3 invite queue.

And y’know, I’ve said a lot about fandom and community here, and I just want to say, I hope it’s not intimidating. When I was younger, talk about The Fandom Community made me feel insecure, and I didn’t think I’d ever manage to be active enough in fandom spaces to be counted as A Member Of The Community. But you don’t have to be a social butterfly to participate in fandom. I’ll always and forever be a chronic lurker, I reblog more than I post, I rarely manage to comment on fic, and I go radio silent for months at a time--but I write and post fanfiction. That’s my contribution.

Do you write, draw, vid, gif, or otherwise create? Congrats, you're a community member.

Do you leave comments? Congrats, you're a community member.

Do you curate reclists? Congrats, you're a community member.

Do you maintain a fandom blog or fuckyeah blog? Congrats, you're a community member.

Do you provide a space for other fans to convene in? Congrats, you're a community member.

Do you regularly send asks (off anon so people know who you are)? Congrats, you're a community member.

Do you have fandom friends who you interact with? Congrats, you're a community member.

There’s lots of ways to be a fan. Just make sure to respect and appreciate your fellow fans and the work they put in for you to enjoy and the gift economy fandom culture that keeps this community going.

[sjjdkdkwo]

Stephen probably ends up with a longer lifespan from his experiences, and probably ends up having to endure watching the few people he’s kept close die, and succumb further into the lonely lifestyle he’s subjected himself to. At least that’s what he thinks. The first time Thor knocks on his door, it’s after Tony Stark’s funeral.

Stephen had caught him stealing quick glances his way but thought nothing of it. Now though, standing awkwardly at his door fidgeting in place, Stephen doesn’t know what to make of him. So he lets him in. Thor accepts but tells him he won’t stay for long, he’d only wanted to speak to Stephen briefly before he left. Stephen notices that Thor regards him with an odd somewhat torn look, almost like he wants to ask a question but doesn’t know how to go about it. Stephen doesn’t push though, and eventually Thor asks him if he’s all right. Stephen frowns, because he’s not use to being asked that question these days by anyone except Wong on occasion. He reassures Thor that he’s fine, only for a doubtful look to pass Thor’s face. Before he can say anything though Thor goes on, talking about Tony briefly and everything that’s happened. Stephen answers where he can, not providing much but enough not to let Thor think he doesn’t care. He does, but he’s just so tired. He thinks Thor must noticed because suddenly he’s cuts himself off and asks something Stephen should’ve expected but didn’t in his weariness. He can’t help but soften as he listens to Thor’s voice quiver as he turns to look downward and lets the words tumble out of his mouth. He wants to know if there’s anything Stephen can do for Loki, because of course he does. Stephen doesn’t bother mollifying his answer and tells Thor a simple no.

Thor only nods quiet and still for a moment before looking back up with his usual smile. His eyes don’t match it though but Stephen doesn’t say anything. He doesn’t think anything he has to offer could ease the pain behind Thor’s eyes in that moment. He thinks that’s it and that Thor will leave then but he doesn’t. Instead he says something that further perplexes him. He invites him to go on his journey to the stars with the rest of the guardians. Stephen almost laughs at the absurdity of it before he realizes Thor is serious. When he asks why Thor merely says he thinks Stephen wouldn’t be bad company to keep. Stephen only gives him an awkward pat on the shoulder and tells him as tempting as the offer is; his life is here, performing his duties under the Sanctum. Thor accepts and tells him he’ll see him again, and this time with a bright smile. After he leaves Stephen only allows himself a brief moment to ponder the oddness of the encounter before arrives to inform of more work needed to be done. Stephen pushes the thought away completely and doesn’t think on it again. He has other things to worry about.

The second time Thor knocks on his door, Stephen doesn’t expect him either, and so soon too. But there he stands, still as scruffy and shambolic as when he’d last seen him with the same bright smile. Stephen lets him in again, more out of curiosity this time than out of courtesy. When Stephen asks why he’s stopped by Thor tells him Steve Rogers has died. Right, Stephen knew, he’d heard it from the grapevine. He hadn’t gone to the funeral this time, and he was certain he wouldn’t have been welcome if he had. Many of the heroes still aren’t ready to forgive him for what happened, for what he did. Stephen doesn’t bother trying to change any of their minds. In all the futures he saw, it never ended well when he did. Still it doesn’t answer Stephen’s question as to why Thor is here and he tells him so. Thor only shrugs and invites him to go on the journey to the stars with him again. Like the first time, Stephen is at loss for words. He wants to ask so many questions then, and so many thoughts flutter through his mind. But Stephen doesn’t have time to entertain any of them, and instead politely declines just like the first time. Thor doesn’t falter, still smiling and telling him he should go then, promising to see him again. This time Stephen does think on the matter later, when he’s alone in bed, and wonders if Thor really will return.

It’s a long while before Thor knocks again, Stephen is Sorcerer Supreme now and his duties have doubled tenfold. Stephen starts to wonder if somehow Thor knows when he’s home, or if he’s just lucky enough to catch him when he is. Thor looks different too, neater and better kept than he had, but the look on his face tells another story. This time Thor tells him Bruce Banner has died, Stephen already knew. The way he says it leads Stephen to believe they held a deeper relationship than Thor did with the previous departed, so he doesn’t say anything and instead nods. Stephen can’t help but reach up to place a comforting hand on his shoulder, like the first time and Thor offers a small smile of thanks. Stephen can see his eye are watery and turns away to let him catch his bearings before regarding Thor again. And like before Thor invites him on the same journey to the stars. Stephen offers him a smile this time when he says no, and Thor nods like he knew what his answer was going to be and turns to leave, promising to see him again. Stephen finds himself hoping that he will, just the tiniest bit.

The years go by and it dawns on Stephen that he hasn’t aged, whereas now he’ll blink and suddenly the person in front of him has gone completely grey and has a face full of wrinkles. Even Wong is looking older; Stephen tries not to let that bother him. Stephen continues on with his duties, working in the shadows and offering his assistances when needed. More heroe’s pass away, some not from old age, and by the time he realizes all the original avengers have died. And each time without fail Thor comes knocking on his door with the same offer. At one point Stephen sees he’s just as surprised as he is that he remains untouched (physically at least) by time too. Sometimes he stays to a little longer for admittedly pleasant conversation, and through his visits Stephen learns that even some of the guardians had reached their expiration, and the remaining few had disbanded not long after more than half had passed on. Thor was travelling alone now, only occasionally stopping by earth to reassure himself the rest of the Asgardians were well and cared for, and apparently to come see Stephen. Still Stephen comes to regard Thor’s visits with something in between sadness and happiness, the first because his visits always mean someone has died, and the second because Thor is one of the few familiar things left in Stephen’s life. He doesn’t age like everyone else, the same as ever. Just like Stephen. He doesn’t stop saying no to Thor’s invitations though; Stephen has other matters to attend to. So Thor becomes an afterthought, only resurfacing when he hears news that someone has died.

When Wong dies, it’s the first and only time Stephen refused to answer the door when Thor knocks. Distantly wonders how Thor even knows his friend has passed, but he’s too consumed in his own grief and despair to really think on it. Thor stops knocking after an hour anyway. When he later opens the door to make sure, he finds flowers on the doorstep, lilies to be exact. He takes them in and settles them on what used to be Wong’s favorite table and tries not to break under the grief, instead pushing down all his sorrow and returning to his duties like always. He wonders if Thor will stop coming by. He doesn’t. The years go by and Stephen keeps saying goodbye, and in turn Thor, without fail, always shows up at his doorstep with the same offer. And Stephen always answers the same.

Saying goodbye to the cloak is one of the hardest things he does in his life, something he never thought could be possible. But when his last loyal companion is torn to shreds Stephen is torn with it, because now Stephen is truly and utterly alone. Somehow Thor finds out, because he’s knocking on his door again. Stephen is quick to say no this time, and Thor accepts it but not without embracing Stephen before he goes, with the same promise to return. And Stephen wonders what else he can lose. It’s only later that he realizes Thor had appeared because he deemed the cloak important too. Stephen thinks about that for a long time after, but like always pushes it away eventually to focus on his duties.

When he loses the title of sorcerer supreme Stephen mourns again, for the loss of something that was integral to his identity for a long time, for failures that led to it, and for the people who suffered through them. He won’t stop fighting, and he won’t turn his back on the universe, he knows he won’t, but now more than ever though he feels out of place amongst the vastness around him. When Thor knocks this time, Stephen the first thing he asks is who died this time. Thor gives him a sad look before replying, “Your spirit did, Stephen.”

When Thor asks him to come along this time, Stephen says yes. He has nothing left after all.

Being on Thor’s ship is…an experience. There’s nothing wrong with said ship, it’s fine as far as ships go (not that Stephen has much experience in the matter but well). But it should’ve come to no surprise really that their first month on the ship would be uncomfortable. Neither of them actually knows each other, not in a way where they can comfortably navigate around the other without worrying about stepping over certain boundaries. And if Stephen is being honest with himself Thor is, not what he expected. Through a few of the other heroes he’d created an image of Thor in his own head, loud, boisterous, humorous in nature. Overall what Stephen would categorize as “a fun guy to be around”. Yet the man he sets off into space is none of those things, he doesn’t lack in kindness or manners—the result of growing up a royal and a prince Stephen thinks—but he’s quiet instead of loud, and doesn’t jabber on like so many had told Stephen, and if he jokes then Stephen’s certainly never noticed. No, Thor is…muted, reserved and more often that not Stephen can catch him looking off in the distance for hours on end. It’s not unnerving just, unexpected and Stephen begins to wonder how long Thor has been alone. How long he went without a single person to talk to.

Still, Stephen doesn’t mind because Stephen doesn’t talk much either, unused to company now after so many years immersed in his own solitude. And somehow that works in their favor, eventually allowing them to at least work around each other well enough that they don’t argue. It’s not long before Thor takes them to their first destination; Stephen expects it to be a pit stop to gather supplies. Thor never actually told him what his plan was with bringing out Stephen to journey with him, he starts to suspect he doesn’t even have one. He’s confused however when he finds that the first planet they make it to is somewhere not only practically off the map, but also barren of people or anything signifying any form of intelligent life. When he asks Thor why they’re there he only tells him he’d figured Stephen would enjoy the scenery. He’s not wrong, the planet is close enough in resemblance to earth that Stephen can enjoy a sense of familiarity but different enough that he can bask in the wonder of something new. Thor leads him through a dense thicket before they find themselves in small clearing. He joins Thor when he moves to sit and figures now is as good a time as any to ask why Thor had invited him to join him in the first place.

Thor only shrugs; waiting a beat before he tells Stephen he’d felt something resembling a connection of sorts between them, so many years ago after they’d defeated Thanos, saw something in Stephen that he understood, and found unfair. Because after all was said and done, Thor was grateful to Stephen and he found he couldn’t hate him too. Something about Stephen told him, there was a person who could use a little kindness. When Thor looks his way Stephen thinks he knows what he means to say: You say the future and somehow still ended up losing too, and I didn’t want you to think it was all your fault. Stephen says nothing, instead looking off into the distance as Thor shuffles around him for a minute before getting up to wander the clearing. Stephen doesn’t follow this time. He returns after while and plops down next to Stephen again, and starts digging into the dirt next to him. Stephen looks on, curious to see what he’s doing and watches him carefully tuck in a small seed into the dirt before covering it back again and pressing firmly over it. Stephen gives him a questioning look and Thor merely smiles softly before looking at him and tells him maybe if they’re lucky, something will grow from this.

Their journey goes on; slowly they grow even more accustomed to each other, enough to survive living on ship together. Stephen learns that Thor rarely sleeps and instead keeps to the main controls on the ship most of the time. Even when he looks like he’s going to pass out from exhaustion. Stephen finds himself worrying on occasion when Thor stumbles out of his seat and offers Thor help sleeping. Thor always refuses. Stephen also begins to notice certain changes around the ship; Thor makes little changes here and there to accommodate Stephen’s hands. Interestingly enough though, Stephen never catches Thor looking at them, though he knows they shake more now after years of abuse and strain on them. He appreciates the sentiment in private though, grateful to Thor for not saying anything on the matter. It’s not any easy topic, even now after so many years. And Stephen begins to find Thor’s company is comfortable, and Stephen makes do.

He keeps noticing new things about Thor in their time together, like how often when he speaks to Stephen it feels like he’s not really there, like he’s speaking to someone else. It unnerves Stephen when he first realizes it, and he keeps a closer eye on him. Conversations with Thor aren’t common enough for him to have to constantly think on the matter really. Still, as more time passes his perception of Thor changes completely, in the future he’d seen he never lingered much on Thor and in the ones he did he and Thor never became close enough for him to learn what had actually happened to the other man. So when Thor enters a sudden panic when something hits their ship, Stephen is lost. He watches Thor’s breathing pick up as his eyes widen. Watches him look franticly as he shakes before he starts mumbling something beneath his breath. Watches him lose control as he starts calling out names, Stephen doesn’t know any of them at first until he hears Thanos’ name, and then Loki’s and he can connect the dots. The statesman. Thor thinks he’s on the statesman again and is being attacked. And Stephen’s heart aches, because it’s who Stephen is, and he sets about helping Thor. He knows better than to make sudden movements, and knows especially not to touch Thor as he cries out. Instead he calls out to him, gently but loud enough to get through, telling Thor it’s not real, they’re not on the statesman and Thanos is dead. He doesn’t mention Loki. He helps him breath through it, before having him describe their surroundings once he starts to come back to. When he’s sure Thor is done with the initial panic he settles down, he’s already decided he’s not going to leave Thor’s side for anything in that moment. Thor says nothing, huddling into himself and staring off into the distance. Stephen doesn’t push him though, he understands.

Later Thor apologizes, for the incident and for not telling Stephen. Stephen doesn’t want him to, but he knows better than to dismiss him. He’d often done the same thing in the past too. So he lets Thor speak, and listens as he explains that since the statesman, ships and he don’t mix well. Before he can question what they’re doing on one Thor tells him how New Asgard hadn’t been any better. It’s one thing to panic alone on a ship where no one can hear you; it’s another to do so in front of the people who expect you to watch over them. He also tells Stephen that the guilt had been to much, it didn’t matter that they’d won, he’d never gotten over the feeling of failure from losing so many of his people, his friends, his brother. And after some time being in New Asgard he’d also come to the realization that he just couldn’t be around people anymore, at least not like before. Large groups sent him into a panic, and so hiding away with korg and miek in his small home had been easier than walking amongst others. He’d only pushed away his anxieties when Bruce and Rocket had come because he’d refused to fail a second time, and Thor had learned he’d been a surpassingly better actor than he’d thought he’d be. He tells Stephen he’d thought going with the guardians would be ok, they weren’t a big group and Quill’s ship had been no statesman. But he’d parted ways with them after the first episode he’d experienced. He hadn’t been able to go back though, didn’t feel right amongst the others, and in some odd way he felt almost comfortable to allow himself to go mad by himself in space. Like Loki had. And understanding passes through Stephen, this is Thor’s penance for failing everyone he cared for.

Stephen doesn’t tell Thor he doesn’t deserve his own self-inflicted punishment, because Stephen is no better in this regard. He knows well what it’s like to find pain a better alternative to guilt. He thinks Thor knows this too, and starts to believe perhaps Thor was right, they had more in common than he’d thought. Still he refuses to let Thor suffer alone after, and instead sets about placing wards all around the ship. When Thor questions him he merely says this way they can both get some sleep. From Thor’s smile he thinks he knows what he means to say is “you’re not alone anymore and I’m going to help you”. He starts taking his own shifts at main controls much to Thor’s protests, but Stephen shoots him a look and he accepts. Thor still doesn’t sleep as much as Stephen thinks he should, but he’ll get manage that somehow too.

After that, something shifts between them. At least on Thor’s part, he speaks more than he used to and while the dazed look in his eyes never leaves, Stephen begins to see less of it. They spend more time together and travel to more places, Stephen always taking into consideration the new information Thor’s shared with him and carefully watching his reaction whenever they have to interact with other species, and watching over the ship constantly to make sure they don’t hit anything that can send Thor into a panic again. They start sharing personal stories, and though there’s hurt in his eyes Stephen finds that Thor enjoys speaking about Loki and their past together. Stephen in turn shares stories of Donna and Victor, letting Thor know he’s also been faced with the final moments of a sibling and not been able to do anything about it. Thor appreciates the sentiment. Everything is all right for a while, until it isn’t again. And one day, Thor learns what fourteen million six hundred and five futures can do to a person.

Thor had known something was there, hidden behind the mask of indifference and calm collect. Like him, Stephen often got a faraway away look in his eyes when he thought Thor wouldn’t notice. But Thor was more astute than people often gave him credit for. And even years ago during Tony’s funeral could see something was wrong with Stephen, only to watch him fall apart further and further through everyone of his visits. Thor wasn’t used to talking, after so much time alone. And it seemed Stephen hadn’t even noticed that the only time Thor did was when Thor caught him slip off into something akin to despair, if only to offer a distraction. But unlike Thor, Stephen had dealt with more people in the years since Thanos, and he soon realized Stephen had more experience knowing how to conceal his own troubles. But unlike then, Stephen’s privacy is rather limited on Thor’s ship, and for a long while he gets away with it. Until at one point he can’t. Thor starts to notice something is off when he mentions their coordinates and what solar system their entering. Stephen suddenly becomes stiff and he swallows before excusing himself to his room. Within the next days he takes to meditating more than usual, and Thor tries not to worry. He offers conversation here and there, but unlike before Stephen’s replies are short and far in between, and Thor tries not to push. Stephen goes to sleep one night and Thor is glad to see him get some rest, settling back into keeping watch like usual.

Thor doesn’t think anything of it when Stephen stumbles out of his room, turning to greet him until he notices the alarm in his eyes. He makes his way over to ask what’s wrong when suddenly Stephen is trying to attack him. He barely manages to avoid being hit when Stephen starts attacking again. Thor doesn’t move to attack back, but defends himself nonetheless, trying to speak to Stephen in between each hit he receives. He realizes what’s wrong when Stephen mentions Thanos, and Thor changes tactics. Much like Stephen had during Thor’s panic he follows the same steps, waiting until Stephen can come to, trying to remind him where they are and that Thanos is dead. When Stephen returns, unlike Thor his face only scrunches up in confusion before he realizes what he’s done. He’s quick to stumble through and apology before overlooking Thor for injuries and Thor wonders what’s just happened. Stephen seems perfectly fine now, and when he asks Stephen just looks away abashed. Thor learns that use of the time stone had given Stephen lasting damage, and that on occasion he’d forget what time line he was in. Usually not common problem on earth, in space it’s a different story. More often than not Stephen never came back to earth, and he’d undergone his worst timelines when he’d been off world. Thor feels guilt settle and offers to return Stephen back to earth, worried that his time with Thor will hurt him more than anything. Stephen agrees, he doesn’t want to burden Thor or risk hurting him, he’d been in a lot places after all and that means its bound to happen again. Thor is quick to squander Stephen’s assumption that he’s any sort of burden though, reminding him that he’s also broken and instead asks Stephen if he wants to go.

Stephen hates himself for saying it, because he hates the thought of causing anyone trouble, but the answer is no. Because he’s come to enjoy Thor’s company, his gentle demeanor and their long conversations into what he assumes is night. He likes it here with Thor, finding new places even if it means crossing old painful ones. More than anything he finds himself admitting it in his own mind that he likes Thor. And when he looks at Thor he sees him beaming over him with a large genuine smile and he wonders if maybe Thor has started to like him too. And like that things start changing even more. Thor starts brining up facts and events that have transpired in between the days that go by, so Stephen can always remember what timeline he’s in. He starts making Stephen tell him if a certain planet of solar system brings back any unsettling thoughts and memories, starts taking care of Stephen too.

They get better at living together, at being together. Through their shared traumas they learn what to avoid what helps, and eventually they learn how to talk about something other than Thanos, than the other heroes and everything that’s hurt them. They learn how to enjoy things together. Thor starts to smile more, and Stephen starts to see bits and traces of the person people once told him about, except he’s not exactly the same no, but Stephen likes him all the same. Thor learns that for all his snark and quick wit Stephen is actually quite funny when he wants to be, and finds himself laughing at his subtle jokes. And before they know it, they’re not just making it work anymore.

They visit many places; more often than not they fall into trouble. Because even now at the end of the day they’re still heroes and their need to do what’s right often has them facing off evil tyrants, or space pirates, or whatever it may be that’s causing terror amongst the starts that day. Sometimes they argue; it’s only natural that they would eventually. Sometimes it’s Stephen’s fault, sometimes it’s Thor, and really he hadn’t meant to forget Sakaar or the grand master, it wasn’t his fault he hadn’t been blessed with eidetic memory. Together they manage to overcome everything that comes their way though, growing fonder and fonder of each other as the years keep passing by. Sometimes they make contact with earth, because for all his guilt and self-loathing Thor still thinks about his people everyday and often calls the Valkyrie to make sure they’re ok. In the same manner Stephen is always communicating with the other sorcerers and magic users around him, he may no longer be sorcerer supreme, but there’s not one person who practices magic who doesn’t know the name Stephen Strange. But there are new heroes now, and it seems that earth simply has no need for them anymore. It’s ok though, they have each other and that feels like enough.

At Thor’s suggestion they go visit their first planet together again, and to Thor’s delight the little seed he planted has grown. Stephen smiles too, because seeing Thor content and jovial makes him joyous too. And he learns to appreciate these quieter, simpler moments among the ones that have them battling out in full force and fury, they’re combined power a fierce force to be reckoned with. Because there are still sinister things beyond them, and Thor and Stephen refuse to turn a blind eye when they can help. Unfortunately it also means Stephen has something new to worry about, because Thor has no concept of self preservation and given he’s a “god” he’s usually the one standing in front of Stephen to take a hit. The first time it happens Stephen yells at him for an hour while he tends to his injuries. Thor only laughs because he’ll keep doing it again if it means keeping Stephen safe.

Thor is upset to learn Stephen is the same if not worse. He knew from other’s that Stephen had undergone less than ideal routes of magic in the past to save someone. Seeing it first hand and the damage it does to Stephen’s body is different though. And the first time Stephen performs dark magic in front of him he nearly passes out. Stephen thinks when he’s stalking up to him; face turned down in a frown it’s to deride him for his methods like so many others had done in the past. He readies himself for fury that he expects will follow, and for Thor to tell him he no longer wants him in his company. But before he knows it Thor is throwing his arms around him and demanding he never put himself through something so awful again. Stephen is glad Thor can’t see his face, because he’s pretty sure his eyes are watering. Thor refuses to let him out of his sight for at least a week.

Eventually they do return to earth, things happen and evil forces are active once again. And Stephen almost doesn’t recognize his old home. Things have advanced far more than the last time he’d been there, and he wonders how long it’s been. At hearing it’s been two hundred years since his departure he nearly panics, because he can swear he’d just been there not a year or two before. Thor is there to offer his reassurance, telling him he’s bound to be in for a few surprises now that he won’t age like before. Stephen can only nod in disbelief as he tries to navigate through earth now. By now nearly all the people they once new are long gone, and the ones that are still around had never been close enough to either of them. Still Stephen takes pleasure in visiting the sanctum once more along with Kamar-Taj; he’s welcomed with open arms and Thor convinces him to stay a little longer after they’d dealt with their evil foe. At Stephen’s suggestion Thor also visits New Asgard, surprised now how much it’d blossomed and grown and when he sees the Valkyrie he hugs her tight, thanking her for all she’s done. When Thor isn’t near, she thanks Stephen too, because now Thor is no longer alone.

They eventually leave earth and return on their voyage. Apparently they’ve become quite famous up in space, much to their grimace and surprise. Even so, while Thor’s initial anxieties of being on a ship never ebb away, he finds himself learning to enjoy their time on the ship if only because it’s just the two of them there. Stephen finds himself feeling the same way, and even though there have been and are times he tries to push Thor away—if only because his self hatred never leaves him—but Thor never lets the words get to him. Because he understands Stephen, and most importantly, Stephen is his friend.

When Thor asks him to teach him magic Stephen makes a face. Because technically Thor already has magic, not in the way Stephen does, but it’s magic none the less. Thor waves him off though, he wants to learn magic like Stephens…like Loki’s he says much quieter. They weren’t tied by blood, and Thor didn’t have much to remember him by, and this feels like a good enough way to have a part of him with him. There’s something else there, between the words that Thor refuses to say and Stephen’s eyes him suspiciously before he agrees and makes sure their next stop is somewhere more attuned with the mystic arts. Thor turns out to be a devoted student, studying every chance he gets, cheering softly to himself when he performs even the simplest form of magic. It makes Stephen smile. With time his magic develops into something steadier, more powerful but never seems to use it during battle, and the fact never fails to mystify Stephen. When he finally does use it, Stephen wishes he’d never taken the time to teach him. Stephen like usual, is not one to follow rules, so performing dark magic again is not out of the question. The fact that he hadn’t been prepared enough for the onslaught of energy or the strain it puts on his power however is unfortunate and he collapses. Before he can accept death though, he finds himself awake and, somewhat well? He’s certainly not on the brink of death anymore at least, and that can’t be right. But then he turns over and finds an equally half drained Thor next to him, trying to keep awake. When he looks down at the Thor’s hands and the markings there it makes sense. Magic energy transfer.

Thor had wanted to learn proper magic so he could help Stephen. The thought is as heartwarming as it is infuriating and Stephen doesn’t know whether to hold or yell at Thor and settles on both. Thor pays him no mind though, cradling him back with all the care in the world and reassuring himself that Stephen is alive and will live on another day. Stephen stops yelling eventually, but it’s a long time before he can let go.

They keep going then, letting the year’s bleed through and growing closer and closer. The first time they have to part ways is torture, but Stephen is needed amongst the sorcerers again, and Thor finds he can’t leave the planet under attack alone without help. Through the magic Thor now has though, they can connect better, and they worry a little less about whether or not the other is alive. When they reunite, the first Thor they do is run toward each other and embraces. Thor scoops him up and holds him close and Stephen lets him because he’d missed him too. They try not to make a habit of separating often after. Over the years they keep visiting the tree Thor had planted, it’s grown large and tall and when Stephen looks up at it then at Thor he thinks he was right, something did end up growing.

One day Stephen is surprised to learn Thor has a new favorite magic trick when he walks into the main control room, and instead of Thor finds a little red snake curled up in his seat. He knows Loki had a preference for the form, and when he asks Thor tells him he thinks he knows why now. It’s much easier being small when the world seems so big. And from then on when they have to travel through crowded places Stephen can be seen with a little red snake curled around his neck, little head tucked carefully under his chin, murmuring soft words of comfort to it as they pass by. The comforting weight reminds him of an old friend, and Stephen finds himself enjoying when Thor takes on the form too.

It’s been a few thousand years when they pass through the spot. Thor freezes up and tries to breath though he familiar fear that enters him as they do. It doesn’t take long for Stephen to know why. This is where the statesmen had been attacked, where the Asgardians died. Where Loki died. Stephen is about to tell him that they can turn back when he feels it, the familiar sensation of magic. It should come as no surprise; sometimes traces of magic could linger in one spot long after someone died, the energy and emotions settling in one spot. So Stephen grabs Thor’s hand, giving it a tender squeeze before reaching out to pull in the bit of magic and let it flow through him, and right into Thor. And Thor can feel it, can feel Loki. His final emotions, from the fear he’d felt when facing Thanos again, to the agony he’d felt when he saw Thor get hurt, the pain, and suffering and finally, the love. The love for Thor that even through out everything that had occurred, has remained steadfast and strong. And before Stephen knows it Thor is sobbing for his brother, for his family, for his people and everything in between. And thanks Stephen, for gifting him the relief of knowing that even with everything that had transpired between them, his brother had loved him too. Stephen takes it back then, he’s glad he’d taught Thor proper magic after all.

Stephen doesn’t know when it happened, but after some time he comes to staggering realization. He loves Thor. Not in the traditional sense, not any way he’s loved anyone else. But in a way that transcends any human comprehension of love. Somehow Thor had managed to worm his way into Stephen’s world and someone precious to him, and the thought scares Stephen because he wonders if Thor feels the same way. When Thor holds him tight after a battle though, close and unyielding like he never wants to let Stephen go though he thinks he knows. Thor loves him too.

So when he finds that Thor’s hair and beard have started going grey he panics. Because Thor is not a god, he is born, he lives, and he still dies just as humans do. Just as Stephen doesn’t know if he can anymore. When he points this out to Thor though, he only laughs, and asks Stephen if he’s looked in a mirror lately. When he does, to Stephen’s delight and happy surprise, he sees he’s aged too. His hair is completely white, and there are wrinkles that he thought he’d never see. He thinks it must be odd to be happy to grow old, but more than anything he’s happy this means he won’t have to live an eternity without anyone else, without Thor.

Thor keeps aging, but so does Stephen so he’s not as afraid anymore. They find that less people need their help anymore; there are newer and newer people to save the day as time goes on. It’s almost like the universe is given them permission to go, to rest now. And suddenly it dawns on them just how tired they both are. And they find themselves settling back on their first planet, making a home for themselves there. Alone, just the two of them for it seems in all their years together no one but them have stopped by here. Their days are quiet, and more often than not they merely talk or sit simply enjoying each other’s company. It’s enough, and they don’t need much else. They haven’t for thousands upon thousands of years.

Stephen thinks it’s unfair that Thor should die first. During his final moments though he doesn’t dare cry, not as Thor says goodbye. Because he wants Thor to know how much he’s enjoyed his friendship and love more than he wants him to know how much he’ll miss it. So he smiles and bears through it, smiling with Thor until his last moments. And then Thor tells him he loves him, and promises to see him again just like he had in the beginning and closes his eyes forever. Stephen hates that he hadn’t gotten to say it back almost as much as he hates that Thor is gone. And Stephen cries, for the first time in a very long time, over Thor’s body. Because he loved Thor, and Thor had loved him back. And Stephen is alone again.

Stephen buries him next to their tree. He thinks it’s only fitting. And everyday without fail he sits underneath it speaks to Thor. He knows it’s pointless, Thor has passed on, but a part of him still hopes that somehow Thor can hear him as he tells him about his day; about the flowers he’d taken to growing his tree, about how much he misses him.

He’s lying beneath the tree when he falls asleep, the gentle breeze around him lulling him to sleep. Only to be awoken by a knock. Stephen grumbles first, because he’d been sleeping damn it, before he realizes two things. One, he was completely alone. And two, Stephen was outside. So he opens his eyes in alarm and panic only to realize he’s not beneath the tree, and he’s not on their planet. He’s…in the sanctum. But that shouldn’t be possible, the last time Stephen had been there had been about three hundred years ago. He takes in surrounding, feeling odd and reasonably worried when he hears the knock again. And that’s another thing, even if he was in the sanctum no one knocked on Stephen Strange’s door. No one except…oh.

Stephen is running before he knows it, almost trips over himself as he rushes down the stairs and flings open the door. And it’s him. Thor. He looks younger, his face free of wrinkles and his hair no longer white, but his smile is warm and bright as he looks at Stephen and Stephen flings his arms around him and clings to his friend with all his strength, sobbing into his shirt as he tells Thor he loves him too. And Thor holds him back. And Stephen is so happy he barely registers that this must mean he’s dead too, because he has Thor again. Thor who’d come knocking on his door so many years ago, Thor who’d never stopped knocking even when Stephen turned him away, Thor who’d taken him away from his own misery and gifted him with new purpose and a second chance, Thor who’d never let Stephen pushed him away, Thor who loved him, wholly and completely.

Later he’ll find everyone else. Will twirl Donna in his arms and embrace Victor and tell him he’s sorry. He’s find Wong, and hold him as he thanked him for staying by his side for so long. He’ll see his old teacher again and tell her thank you and this time he’ll take the time to learn more about her. He’ll find Tony Stark and he’ll apologize only to have him brush him off, he’ll find Christine and his parents and everyone who’s ever given Stephen Strange purpose.

But right now he’ll cling to Thor. His last friend in life, and the first friend to greet him in death. Because when Stephen had nothing left, Thor gave him everything.

And Thor will stay by his side, like always.

[phantom-does-a-thing]

hey, i love your fics and all your headcanons about the prime defenders! i love the way you do dakota's chronic pain (or something similar?), its a very unique one. can you tell me more about what you headcanon for each of them?

Oh! Hi sweet anon! I'm so glad that you like my prime defenders stuff! I love writing them and they are just so !!! to me.

Aha I never do talk about headcanons in public so I've never made a coherent list so I will do my best but I absolutely LOVE talking about this kind of stuff <3 headcanons my beloved. They will be under the cut!

this is really long btw.

you ask me to talk and I won't shut up.

William Wisp

this is my boy! My dude! Me FR! I think about him all the time uh headcanons tho hm.

His eyes glow in the dark

He's ALWAYS cold (doesn't produce his own body heat) and is just constantly shivering (I mention this one a lot in my fics)

Legs and hips are a little messed up, he walks with a limp (he is unaware that he does this but other people can notice it). Often hip and knee pain. Syrup brought up the idea to me of a ghost cane and I think about that a lot.

I think it would be funny (haha) if he's scared of the dark and claustrophobic

The claustrophobic one makes me a little insane bc he would know how irrational the fear is since he can literally... go intangible... if he's trapped in a small space he can get out of it.

I also think he would be very afraid of heights! y'know! makes sense!

He would like to sew I think. His main sweatshirt that he wears is just covered in embroidery and patches that he sewed on it.

He doesn't necessarily have food allergies but he does have a lot of sensitivities. He cannot digest much. (Onions, gluten, lactose, yknow food sensitivities).

Rigor mortis! LOL! I think sometimes he just straight up cant move yknow

I ALSO THINK that sometimes he just loses random senses. Like taste and smell. (I have a ghost character that has the same thing happen to him... Boy my beloved).

He sleepwalks a lot or otherwise just straight up doesn't get sleep yknow?

He knows so much obscure information it is INSANE and also a little frightening. He sends random articles to the groupchat in the middle of the night (poor Vyncent who has his ringer on all the time)

He also just like knows way too much and is scarily good at finding things on social media, he will be able to find a social media account within minutes (like my sister fr).

I think he would like cop or mystery shows like Criminal minds, Macgyver etc those type of shows idk. Maybe NCIS?

This isn't really about William but I think that the wisps mess with him whenever they're bored so he has just straight up resorted to giving them their own source of entertainment so they just leave him alone.

He has a record player that he puts on just so they can mess with it and so he can have a little bit of peace.

I think that electronics go a little funky in his presence, sometimes he just straight up cannot use his phone ("hey did you get my text?" "*phone screen is just static* no")

Speaking of texting, he pretty much NEVER responds to texts and either types for 10 minutes and sends a long paragraph response or types 10 minutes and responds with a singular emoji. It's impossible to tell which response it will be.

But if you want to get a hold of ANY of the boys, William is the best bet to text bc he will actually read his messages (he cannot have his phone off of silent bc he has to look at the messages right away, he just won't respond immediately. The message will be read tho).

He's a stress cleaner (when the rest of your life is falling apart at least you can control one aspect of it)

Will is absolutely ATROCIOUS at playing video games, he doesn't have the reaction time and much prefers making Dakota or Vyncent play a game and he'll watch

He's probably like the biggest impulse spender of the three and absolutely comes home from work with stupid things that he bought.

OH MY FAVORITE HEADCANON BECAUSE I AM PROJECTING!!!! BUT!!! BUT BUT!!!

I think that William has muscle issues in his eyes. His eyes cross a lot, especially when he's tired. He's SUPPOSED to wear glasses for it but he doesn't. He only ever wears his glasses when Tide (or Dakota) tells him to. He would have thick square framed glasses that he technically doesn't need to see but his eyes are still a little messed up.

Ok listen, William is from Deadwood. Deadwood is a real city in South Dakota. I think South Dakota should be real. William has the most rural midwestern vibes ever. In my head he is midwestern, he has to be. He needs a thick midwestern accent. He is a corn boy (hi Syrup)

Ok I've been talking about William wisp for too long I need to move on to someone else UHHHH.

Dakota Cole

He loves baking fr! baking and cooking is his specialty and I think besides Tide, he would be the one to cook for the boys.

Stress baker

Sits on the counter all the time (Will and Vyn are sit on the floor type guys).

His hair IS technically curly but it's so frizzy it's impossible to actually tell, it's just a mass of red fluff.

I think it would be REALLY funny if he was naturally ginger but dyes his hair redder.

I think he deserves freckles too, tons of freckles, all over his body

His stomach and the back of his neck is super sensitive (William constantly tortures him w cold hands to the back of his neck)

He is fr like a walking space heater, he is always hot and gives off so much heat

Weighted blankets aren't really heavy enough for him but he loves being compressed fr

I think he absolutely is so affectionate, a ton of casual touches and just like yknow. Hugs, arm around the shoulder, headbutts, nudges all that type of stuff. Personal space is not a thing w/ Dakota but he backs off quickly when it's not welcome.

He does give big hugs though and will tackle someone to the ground if he hasn't seen them in a while. Absolutely massive hugs. Big squeeze.

I think he also loves to hold hands whenever they're walking places he will hold hands with one of the boys.

Gift giving is his love language, he loves getting the boys things that reminds him of them.

He likes watching cooking and baking shows too, absolutely

He has so many joint problems, mostly in his hips and knees (bc that's where he fights mostly) but his back, shoulders and elbows hurt as well during times. He cannot sit on the floor for very long otherwise it will hurt.

Around the base he has various braces and stuff to help w that along w/ stretches and all that

He would be SO good at platformer games (cuphead, donkey kong, super mario bros etc)

Dakota will sit and do something for maybe half an hour at most and then move on to a different activity (exceptions for this are baking, watching tv with the other boys or crochet). Compared to Will and Vynce who could sit for hours doing something specific.

He would just have a ton of stim toys I think, there's a couple that he uses often but he does have a lot in general just bc he'll see one and think it's interesting enough to buy.

This is kind of for all three of them, but around the base they have whiteboards n stuff to draw on, he always draws pictures on the board. (Will and Tide are the only ones to leave actual notes, Vyncent just draws faces).

He has so many pillows on his bed, he would love pillows. Absolutely cozy fr.

Short. I don't care how tall he is on the character sheet. This dude is not over 5'5. He cannot reach the top shelf.

I think he likes fruit punch for his select choice of juice.

He is accidentally the mom friend and by that I mean he just knows his own body well enough to have stuff that he needs. It just happens that no one else in the friend group knows how to take care of themselves.

Re: previous thought. If you need something, he'll probably have it in his bag, he's just like that.

He doesn't always see messages when they're sent but he always responds right away. (rule of thumb, if you need a text to be seen, text Will. If you need a response, text Dakota. Do not text Vyncent).

I don't care about the canon universe for this one headcanon but Dakota would LOVE Spiderman I think.

I think he would have a lot of night terrors.

^I had to add that one because I realized I didn't have that many sad headcanons for Dakota.

I think Dakota also steals clothes a lot. They just let him tho like no one cares. William will see him in the kitchen in a dark T shirt that is the most jarring image but just does not say anything. (He is not allowed to do laundry, certified thief fr)

Ok I've been talking about Dakota too long, Time to move on again

Vyncent Sol

Fr one of the most Boys to Boy yknow? he is a creature fr!

Eyes glow in the dark, Dakota is the only one without glowing eyes, he lives with two cryptids fr.

you can pry the headcanon that he has a tail out of my cold. dead. hands. He has a tail I believe in it.

Re: ^ that thought, super long skinny tail with a little tuft of fur at the end.

Continuing with that, whenever he's upset or scared he wraps his tail around whoever is nearby, constantly hits people with his tail but does not notice. Whenever they're in public he wraps it around his torso to keep it hidden.

Big ears fr! constantly twitching and flicking back and forth, they move so much it's funny to watch sometimes. Also floppy ears tbh.

I think he would have sharp teeth and sharp nails.

When he was younger, his hair used to be like a very pale lavender and was a lot curlier than it is now. He still has the baby curls but he tries to hide them bc he doesn't wanna be seen as immature.

His hair is also super delicate and soft, he cannot use shampoo or product bc it WILL destroy his hair, you have to be very gentle with it.

He purrs. Absolutely does.

Not a fan of physical contact but puts up with it for Dakota

That one post of like that really grumpy cat reluctantly purring on the chest of someone who was sick? yeah that's Vyncent. He hates comforting people. Will purr to comfort others tho. Even if he is wildly uncomfortable with every second of it.

Vyncent would be such a light sleeper, he has super sensitive hearing and will wake up at every little sound. Headphones are not just to hide his ears <3 too much noise gives him a headache all the time.

he would LOVE bugs and plants. Wants to know more about all the nature on prime <3

He always talks about little facts super excited and Will and Dakota always are excited about it too (even if it's common knowledge for them, it's not for Vyncent and he's excited about it).

Will, despite being terrified of bugs, gives Vyncent facts about bugs in return (Vyncent loves hearing about it!)

He's the type to torture bugs on the playground but it's completely scientific, he's doing it for science purposes. He wants to know more.

Vyncent thinks Will and Dakota are super hard to read, they think the same of him. They have different body languages <3

I think he would be allergic to stupid things in the same vein that dogs are. He can't have onions either. (poor Dakota loves onions but no one else in the base can have them except for Tide).

He likes sitting with the others and just kind of sitting in the same room as them, not even doing the same thing. He's just vibing.

I think Vyncent would walk really quietly and constantly sneak up on people by accident.

You could hand Vyncent literally anything and say "eat this" and he would. Same thing with Dakota but for Dakota it would have to at least look like food. Vyncent will eat a rock if you hand it to him.

William showed Vyncent how to do emojis one time and it has been one of Will's biggest regrets (Vyncent now pretty much only texts in emojis. No they do not makes sense).

I think Vyncent would get so motion sick in cars.

I think that he should have a noticeable accent, no one can tell what TYPE of accent (obvious reasons) but it's uncanny enough that he does not sound like the locals.

He deserves a little uncanniness as a treat, limbs too long etc something like that idk. He should be more of a creature.

[carpe-mamilia]

Inconsistency of magic capabilities and also motivations were a big problem this series, I thought. This is a discussion I had with a friend so it's longish (and probably not very interesting aha)

T: Did you find GO S2 super messy?

M: Super messy. Episode one in particular is awful, everyone telling each other that Gabriel's gone.

T: Like, I know S1 was also messy and strangely paced but S2 just felt like... Nothing was happening, or nothing that made a great deal of sense. And then suddenly there are 2 massive climax scenes, neither of which ever really get very exciting. There's one very sweet but not at all lampshaded live confession, followed by another which ought to have been so much more heartwrenching than it was because I honestly couldn't have really told you the specific beats that brought us here.

M: Literally all of this. The minisodes were individually great but nothingggg coherent

T: And it's a good place to start the next season but lollll way to mishandle what could have been quite a fun low-key mystery. I didn't even end the season sure who all the characters were.

M: Except that the coffee shop lesbians were the least interesting characters ever written.

T: And why is Crowley the Deus Ex Machina machine? Is anyone in danger? Is there a chance of some stakes in the narrative? Never fear, Crowley's here to effortlessly fix it with no continuity about what magic he can and cannot easily do. At least Aziraphale is consistently a selfish, vain little sissy. That's a consistent flaw that informs how he moves in the world. It's a joke that there's anything even vaguely demonic about Crowley here. Which maybe is where they're going with it, but if they didn't have Tennent hamming his heart out they'd have one hell of a mary-sue on their hands.

M: Yeah, he's so far away from book Crowley. Literally never does anything demonic any more, absolutely stopped trying. I was conflicted about the episode with the ball, because I did love the ball in all its fanservice, and I REALLY loved Gabriel's inexplicable pimp coat, it was wonderful. But the whole thing with the demons had absolutely no sense of threat. It's bizarre, I couldn't understand why there was just no tension at any point. Thing is, Good Omens the book has never been one of my favourites since the plot is so weak, because they didn't plan any of it, but the strung-together vignettes are great and they're propped up by that lovely authorial voice. Here it didn't feel like there was that voice, it was just resting on Michael Sheen and David Tennant being charming. I really want to know what happened when they were writing this series, because John Finnemore is so so good at satisfying stories with well-seeded plots that intersect in fun ways. And I feel like that was attempted here but absolutely no-one gives a shit about any of the subplots. Maybe it was just always cursed by being an amazon original production.

T: I feel this. Cursed by being quirky brit-porn with a 12 rating. The book isn't exactly edgy, but it's certainly irreverent and the entire concept is blasphemous at its core. That the whole thing is so twee and toothless feels like a waste, or even possibly a betrayal. I wonder if there was American production company meddling.

M: There are bits of it that I did really like. Whenever I wasn't grinding my teeth over the lack of plot or an awkwardly written scene I was quite often having a nice time. There were lots of very Finnemore lines, as I say I liked the historical minisodes, I liked Crowley carrying books around the shop and then just chucking them out of frame, I liked Reece Shearsmith as a demon. I liked Michael Sheen's sissy acting enormously, all his moues and fluttering. Makes me want to watch Bright Young Things again.

T: Same! Liked the zombies. Liked the historical stuff..loved the IDEA that they would team up to force two humans to fall in love in order to avoid disaster. It's just HOW they set that up and worked it out that didn't live up the the idea. Attempts were made for a season-long theme of forbidden love, with the final twist being that the couple causing chaos wasn't the lesbians, or A+C, but actually Gabriel and Beelzebub. Something I really liked if ONLY the thematic seeding had been successful which it very much wasn't.

M: Re blasphemy, like the bit in the book where the westborough-baptist-type telepreacher gets possessed by Aziraphale, or when the cold caller gets devoured by maggots. Neither of which made it into the first series funnily enough.

T: Yessss. Some sense of peril, even if it's silly. I liked the zombies because this was closest to that kinda thing in tone.

M: Same. And what happened to them? Fuck knows!

T: Yeah man. And what a waste of an episode.. all that fuss and then "well once again there are no consequences for our actions".

M: Absolutely, no consequences to anything. Had a somewhat Stephen Moffatt vibe: endlessly promising, endlessly talking about how important something is, that has nooooo consequences.

T: So much plot armour..such inconsistent stakes... Characters who can solve problems whenever. Yes, very moffaty.

M: Like literally what changed once Gabriel was out of heaven.

T: Exactly! Shouldn't it have been chaos? Wasn't it kind of a coup? It was all very damp.

M: Damp and uncertain. Everyone slightly looking at each other like is this right? Am I doing this right?

T: And they never really explained why Hell wanted him either. In fact the relationship between the desires of heaven and hell is very ill defined. Which was the point of the book, up to a point, but doesn't work now they're extending the story out.

M: Yes, neither side are now doing anything at all, presumably because they're waiting to have a plot in series 3.

T: Yeah I guess so. I really hope they have a proper plan.

M: But come on, any indication that heaven does anything would be nice.

T: Ahaha

M: At least we had Fleecey Reecey spending half the day processing men called Otto. I liked that line.

T: Yeah gotta love a put-upon Fleecey. It's how he thrives, simmering.

M: He sulks so beautifully.

T: Liked the gross spider animation too..that whole episode had so much more bite to it.

M: Yeeeee. Loved the spider, loved bits of the zombies falling off. The book occasionally had happy little glimpses of bad taste and this was the closest we got to that.

T: Why did all the climactic scenes in this season boil down to "aha I've got you" "no you haven't" "oh okay then bye"?

M: Yes, like fanfiction. The author needs a plot so these characters can kiss but it's got away from them a bit.

T: You're right, it's not what I expect of John Finnemore at all.

the capabilities and powers that angels/demons have really confused me, especially with what we're shown in season 2. i feel like in season one it was always pretty clear what the limitations were for their powers, Crowley can do a bit more than Aziraphale can (and we now know why), but there were plenty of things in season 2 that felt like could've possibly been solved through devine or demonic intervention and it felt contrived that they weren't?

more under the cut cuz i went on a bit

i think a lot of these concerns come from the final fight, which honestly feels way too long. why couldn't Aziraphale miracle away the stairs? why couldn't he teleport away? they can teleport people as we saw with Adam (that was Crowley so maybe it's a stronger power). and with that, why did the angels believe the 25 lazarai miracle was to make the humans fall in love? and not even right away?? why could Crowley not miracle the wine bottles back together? seems like reconstruction is an iffy area but all the glass (and wine) were still there. he could've materialized more bottles as well, even if they'd be "fake." the idea of miracle blocking, let alone demons being able to do it, blocking BOTH kinds of miracles, INCLUDING a high rank like Crowley, seems CRAZY op to me.

why didn't they use miracles against the demons? Crowley can make absolutely giant holes in the ground that suck up grave workers, he can BRING A GUY BACK TO LIFE??, but he has to lie about rules of engagement to buy them time to get the humans away? he can stop time/space/individuals/whatever he's doing, why can't he do that to buy them time? you might think oh they're preventing themselves from drawing attention, but he doesn't work for hell anymore so why would he care, and they already have all the attention on them and are being actively attacked by dozens of demons right in front of a group of humans

aziraphale ended up using his halo which is taboo enough to start a holy war and yet he didn't try to do anything magical before that. they can change paintball guns into real guns AND make sure none of the bullets kill anyone purely by "chance" AND not have anyone involved notice they're no longer shooting paint, they can turn children into lizards and back, but they can't protect a bookshop more than just having vampire rules??