#this isn't gonna be like his new default weight or anything

[malachite834]

Seems like he's growing quite fond of the changes after all...

A little continuation of this sequence :3

[ckret2]

@joemerl said: Haven't read TBOB, but maybe they're like, from the dimension next door. Maybe they're even alternate versions of people Bill knew from his own universe, so he tells himself that they're BASICALLY the same?

@krysmcscience said: If canon doesn't already rule out another 2D reality that isn't Bill's, then I'm in partial agreement with joemerl. Maybe not so much on the neighboring aspect, much less the alternate versions part, since those options might make the universe feel a lot "smaller", so to speak, but having those Henchmaniacs just be from a different 2D reality does seem like the simplest possibility... 🤔

"They're from a nearby neighboring 2D reality" is a possibility I'm actively considering. But that's easy, that's obvious, coming up with some other place for them to be from is no problem, I could pull any old origin out of my ass.

The problem is coming up with another origin that makes the story work.

Here's the issue: as I had it set up before TBOB, there were actually a few hundred survivors from Bill's universe (with "wait, so why does Bill act like there were none? And where did the others all go?" being a minor plot point). Krypt, Hect, & Morph are important because they are the last people of Bill's universe who are both still alive and still following him.

He's promised them ever since their universe was destroyed that he'd get them a new, better, perfect home. That promise is what keeps them loyal to him. They've either chosen to believe it wasn't REALLY Bill's fault their universe was destroyed, or that the destruction actually WAS a good thing that liberated them, and their current shit circumstances are just a minor bump in between liberation and their entrance into their promised paradise.

It was important that they be blindly loyal to him in spite of his guilty role in destroying their home—and for him to be ever conscious of that and have that weigh on him.

All of this is deeply important for [Enormous Spoiler Reasons].

Making Krypt, Hect, and Morph from another 2D universe is the obvious default solution to the question of where they're from. But it completely wipes out all the significant plot beats of their relationship with Bill.

So the issue is: is there anything I can do with Krypt, Hect, and Morph, that:

lets that plot still work

is still canon compliant

isn't stupidly annoyingly convoluted as fuck just to come up with a thin way to achieve both that plot and canon compliance

A simple "maybe they're from another 2D universe" doesn't work; their desperation to get a new universe after their last one was destroyed is a major factor.

"Maybe they're from another 2D universe that was also destroyed" also doesn't work; Bill's never gonna give a shit about somebody else's universe being destroyed as much as he gives a shit about his universe being destroyed.

"Maybe Bill also went and destroyed their universe" doesn't work because visiting the neighbor to burn down their house wouldn't ever rot him with guilt the way burning down his own house with his family inside does. Besides, we're gonna learn that Bill played a role in destroying multiple of the Henchmaniacs' home dimensions. If Krypt, Hect, & Morph are just from ANOTHER foreign universe Bill broke, there's nothing special about them.

When he looks Kryptos in the eye and promises he'll get them another dimension, he feels guilt, because he's looking at a piece of his own home. When he looks at [spoilers] and promises a new home, he feels nothing—that universe was an accident, just collateral damage, nothing personal. How do I maintain that distinction, that difference in the weight of his promises?

Unless I come up with a miraculous justification for the shapes to be from Bill's universe that dovetails hauntingly beautifully with TBOB's declaration that Bill was the only one left post-liberation, i'm gonna have to change their plot. I'm groaning and grousing and grudgingly reconciling myself to this likelihood.

If I do change it, "so where are they from" is a minor detail subservient to the much more important "so what is their role in Bill's story that's just as emotionally deep as their original role was gonna be?"

please please please keep kryptos, amorphous and hectogron being from same realm as bill please please please

I will not keep them from the same realm as Bill unless I think of a way to do it that isn't either flat-out ignoring canon or pulling a move that feels like a petty cheat barely one step up from flat-out ignoring canon.

"Maybe the Oracle was wrong about EVERYONE from Bill's dimension being dead because she wasn't there and trillion-year-old information gets distorted over time" was a reasonable headcanon that fit fine with the established story. "Maybe BILL was wrong about everybody being dead in the midst of spilling out a confession/trauma dump about the worst day of his life" is not a reasonable headcanon; it's a cheat.

I know people like them being from the same realm. I like them being from the same realm. I'm not thinking through changing it because I think people don't like it; I'm thinking through changing it because this fic IS gonna be canon compatible in every single way I can make it. It ain't up for group discussion.

My intention is to keep my story plans as similar as possible after adjusting for canon compatibility. I haven't yet found a satisfactory solution for Krypt, Hect, & Morph.

[a-crimson-lion]

Further Discussion On Katsuki Bakugo

[Original Post Here]

@homez18

...I seem to have stumbled upon a rabbit hole which my hubris continues to lure me towards.

Because I genuinely want to have a discussion over your points (and I don't want to bog down my original post with too many reblogs), I'll move the discussions here.

[This isn't necessarily to flaunt my nonexistent superiority. I honestly think that you have a good argument going for Katsuki. I'm just seeing how my own analysis stacks on top of that. I'm no expert, but I'll give it my best shot. Also, spoilers for anyone else reading.]

Let's start with "I don't think Bakugo overestimates himself." This is an interesting point, which I believe does hold water. When I think about it, I realize that Katsuki actually suffers from a different problem, which I'll get back to later. As for "He's never shown to overestimate himself," that's... not entirely correct. As of late, I can think of at least TWO examples in the series where Katsuki could legitimately be overestimating himself. But first, let's address the basic issue.

9 times out of 10, Katsuki will UNDERESTIMATE his opponents.

This isn't without reason. Katsuki's strong, and he knows it. He's been strong since even before his quirk manifested, at least mentally. When his quirk kicked in, his strengths shifted to primarily physical, though he's still an intelligent person. However, even if he can gauge his own strength, he does an admittably horrible job of gauging others' strengths. Since he's been praised for nigh over a decade for having such a strong quirk, Katsuki's got the idea that he's among the best of the best. He might not be #1 yet, but he knows he's gonna get there eventually. The problem starts when he decides that everyone else is beneath him by default.

Don't tell me he doesn't underestimate others either when he tends to call everyone "extras" or just a crappy nickname (at least until he acknowledges them).

One instance where Katsuki distinctly underestimates his opponent is during the Battle Trial with Izuku. Granted, this is more of a hubris case than anything, considering Katsuki's absolute hatred for Izuku (that later does mellow out into begruding respect). The thing is, Katsuki knows Izuku has a quirk now. He knows his quirk is super strong (it beat his ball throw by 0.1 meters, after all) but there's still a part of Katsuki that believes Izuku is still a bug. He's still a worthless Deku, and to top it all off, Katsuki is convinced that Izuku hid his quirk from him since the start.

While his absurd self-centered persona is not the main focus, one must admit that Katsuki's hubris is a certain level of concerning.

So Izuku and Katsuki have a big showdown, and to Katsuki's surprise, Izuku pulls something else entirely. He manages to wreck the building above them, taking the explosion and allowing his team to pass. Katsuki thinks Izuku is looking down on him, but Izuku simply states that he wouldn't have used his quirk if he could have thought of someone else. And as Izuku collapses and the trial comes to a close, Katsuki is shaken by the fact that Izuku beat him. Worthless Deku beat Katsuki Bakugo, and he wonders if Izuku could beat him in other ways. Katsuki underestimated Izuku.

I've talked about Katsuki's obsession with strength previously, but the same idea applies here. If Katsuki wasn't so gun-ho on taking out the enemy (specifically Izuku) for the hell of it and actually tried to win the exercise, he might have been able to beat Izuku. But he's so caught up in his definitions of strength and victory that he ultimately falls flat, underestimating his opponent's capabilities to win, even indirectly. This dame idea comes back to bite Katsuki when Neito Monoma briefly takes possesion of Katsuki's headbands (granted, he does get them back later) because Katsuki didn't even bother paying attention to him, once again underestimating him.

Now, as I've stated before, Katsuki has overestimated himself at least twice. The first time was with All Might during the Final Exams. When All Might brings up his handicap weights, Katsuki has the gall to say that All Might's handicapping is "insulting." Katsuki knows that All Might is strong, he knows that All Might is the NUMBER ONE HERO, and suddenly handicapping himself is insulting? Granted, that's the same attitude he had against Shoto at the end of the Sports Festival, but just to put this scenario into perspective:

Katsuki is a 15 year old hero in training with a powerful quirk, a few months of experience, and versatile experience with his quirk among other strengths (including Battle Tactics).

All Might is an adult (age unknown) Pro Hero with a powerful quirk, years of experience, and, as a Young Katsuki once said: "No matter how bad things look, he always wins in the end!"

To put it simply, Katsuki is a Level 15 going against All Might, a Level 200 (whose handicap probably brings him down to Level 100).

Combined with Izuku (a Level 10 on his own), they might be a Level 30 (50 if I'm being generous) but All Might is still twice their skill combined, and Izuku and Katsuki's troublesome dynamic make it even more of a hinderance to fight against him. Katsuki even tries attacking All Might multiple times, even though he fails consistently each time, doing virtually nothing to change his strategy. It gets to the point where Katsuki gets straight up KO'd because he can't acknowledge that All Might truly is leagues ahead of him. Objectively, Katsuki knows that All Might is on another level, but subjectively? Shouldn't be too hard to beat him.

How would he have passed without Izuku again?

The second time Katsuki overestimates himself is actually fairly recent. Before Izuku and Katsuki head off to intern under Endeavor, they have a meeting with All Might. During that meeting, Katsuki remarks that he's be able to use all of One for All's quirks right then and there, whereas Izuku has only learned to *bloop* with his first new quirk.

Again, Katsuki is only focusing in the physical aspect of things, in this case OFA. We don't know exactly what All Might and Izuku told him about it, but I'd like to think they'd at least cover the basics of OFA's sentience. That, and the fact that since Katsuki is in on the All Might Tea Parties now, wouldn't he at least hear about Izuku's vision when he was undergoing the Black Whip episode? It's already been established that Katsuki has a strong quirk and is physically strong to an extent, but we've seen time and time again that his emotional strength needs some growing time. Plus, it has also been established that OFA gets a boost when it's motivated to save people. Katsuki has no such motives unless it benefits him. He's giving himself too much credit claiming he'd master OFA at that point.

Phew, that was long.

Otherwise, the rest of your argument is fair, homez18. Katsuki does fight to prove himself. He fights (and succeeds) to prove himself during the Entrance Exam. He fights to prove himself during the Quirk Apprehension Test (getting 3rd place and "losing" to Izuku in the ball toss, which pisses him off). He fights to prove himself in the Battle Trial (which is why he's so torn when Izuku wins). He fights to prove himself during all the events after that, like the Sports Festival or the Villain Attack at Camp. He does all that to prove himself.

The problem arises when he shuts out virtually everything else.

Yes, he should be mad at Shoto for not going all out at Katsuki during the Sports Festival, but he heard Shoto's backstory. He KNOWS Shoto hated his fire side, and saw how adamantly he refused to use it. He might not have heard what Izuku said to him in their fight, but Katsuki is so stubborn that he refuses to realize that people have issues beyond Katsuki. Not going all out against him is a personal slight. Being too weak is a personal slight. No one wins.

During the Villain Attack at Camp, Katsuki has every right to defend himself. But he's not defending himself. He's seeking out conflict because to him, fighting is the best part of being a hero. If he was truly defending himself, he'd have headed back to camp with Shoto, even begrudgingly so. Instead, he ignores Mandalay's warnings just because she brought up something about Izuku, and then narrowly avoids getting cut immediately afterwards, foreshadowing his poor choices.

TL;DR Katsuki tends to underestimate others more than he overestimates himself, and while he does fight with a warped sense of honor, it doesn't make his actions any more "noble."

Thanks for reading, homez18. I hope you enjoyed, and if you didn't? Well, that's on me I guess...

-Crimson Lion (24 September 2019)