#this is the weird batch of tags ain't it

[elementroar]

This is cute. Is that suppose to be a 'gotcha'? It would be, if I was the kind of person who can't face 'difficult things' in your stories, and try to devolve them into a moral reasoning to excuse my own lack of imagination and fear of anything remotely contrary to the norm.

Luckily I'm not that kind of person. I would almost say, I revel in it. So lemme educate you on the subject, this is gonna be fun. Now keep your vomit down your throat, you gonna need this education sooner or later, considering how young you are.

The following material about incest in mainstream media (which I limited to video games mostly because I find it ironic about using examples from a medium ‘meant for children’ having more balls than the average Loki watcher apparently)

Bottom line is that admitting you can’t stomach the first episode of Game of Thrones is not the flex you think it is, neither is admitting Disney of Mickey Mouse Club is apparently more daring than you.

Example of actual incest: The Ashford Twins of Resident Evil Code Veronica fame. The result of their father already 'incestuously' combining his DNA with that of his great-great-great-aunt in order to replicate her brilliance in his own offspring. Resulting in the opposite sex fraternal twins Alexia and Alfred. Their incestuous relationship is used to both repulse players and the other characters, and to ironically humanize them.

Alexia and Alfred are shown to be uncomfortably close since childhood, thus overriding the Westermack Effect that would usually stop them seeing each other romantically. Alfred is in love with his sister in a manner meant to invoke the idea of male drones who are devoted to their sisters in ant colonies because the motif behind Alexia's philosophy, design, and viral infection being that of a queen ant.

Alexia herself is humanized at one point by her lashing out after finding out her brother had been killed, despite her inhuman transformation.

Another famous example: Jaime and Cersei Lannister. Not sure if you ever bothered watching Game of Thrones, you seem a bit young for when it first started and like I said, you would have run and cried after the first Episode 1 of naughty on-screen fucking.

Suffice to say, Cersei's attraction is mostly tied to her own narcissism, while Jaime's is treated more as a true tragic love; both naturally overcame/disregarded the Westermack Effect, and are also themselves the result of their father marrying his first cousin (which I should point out IRL, is not uncommon for keeping noble bloodlines 'pure').

Example of alternate reality opposite gender pair and 'genetic' incest: The 'Lutece twins' from Bioshock Infinite. A pair of alternate reality opposite gender people, stated by Rosalind as only have a 'chromosome apart'. Despite calling Robert her 'brother', it's implied they started a romantic relationship not long after Robert crossovered to her reality (a single double queen bed in their quarters, the fact they were discussing about losing their Schrodinger powers to settle down and have children etc.).

Similar to the Ashford twins, their relationship is mostly around humanizing one via their relationship to the other. Rosalind doesn't care all that much about the morality behind her actions or that of Comstock, and is just happy to have Robert and their Schrodinger powers. Robert leverages her desire for him to make her do the morally upright things, such as threatening to leave her if she doesn't help with Elizabeth's mission etc.

Unlike the Ashford Twins, the Westermack Effect doesn't come into play. They are not siblings or true twins, and never grew up with each other although they did grow up in similar environment (same level of intelligence but their personalities diverged) Rather Rosalind calls Robert her 'brother' initially for lack of a better term, before it becomes clear they do not regard each other purely as alternate reality siblings.

There IS the implication that Rosalind manipulated Robert more than a bit for this outcome, due to the way crossing over actually hurt Robert so badly physically that Rosalind had to help heal him for quite a while, possibly in isolation. The mental effects were also shown with Booker where he had a completely wrong recollection of events for why he was doing what he was, until near the end of the game.

Thus, you can read into it as Rosalind in all her narcissism could only actually have desire for her opposite gender alternate reality counterpart because that's the only person she can see as her equal; all the while manipulating Robert while weakened mentally and physically into being more accepting of the situation (tho by the DLC he realizes he can leverage the dependency Rosalind has towards him, and it was he who initially suggested about having children). It's unsavory, it's fascinating, and it makes two creepy-yet-good side characters stand out even more.

Example of alternate reality opposite gender pair, unsure of genetic similarity, but sex is definitely on the table: From freaking Crash Bandicoot 4 we get the N.Tropies, and I'm mostly adding them here cause the similarities between Loki and the game's plot was so fucking hilarious.

So you have Doctor N.Tropy (male) who uses time travel tech as his shtick, runs into his opposite gender counterpart and they hit it off really well and they decide to just destroy all reality to remake it with themselves as gods. They are both blue-skinned (time tech related), have green and gold in their costumes, are extreme narcissists, use pointy weapons, and the female counterpart has the more impressive killcount.

It's just really funny this has happened twice within a year because Crash Bandicoot 4 came out within a year of Loki lmao!

In the context of the story, their relationship is mostly used to show how narcissistic they both are, and that they would only ever respect themselves as a partner in anything. They have absolutely zero shame about their mutual attraction and openly show it. By that I mean they literally flirt every single time they're on-screen and *ahem* clockboners. Also for the fun reactions from Crash and company which quite literally spanned the whole list of possible reactions (disgust, denial, disbelief, confusion, Dingodile laughing at the absurdity).

I think there's really nothing much more to it other than to gross out people a bit, and make it a joke. But there's some legit relationship goals thing going on there - being mutually appreciative, giving suggestions (even when it backfires) to each other, being comfortable enough to openly flirt regardless of audience etc.

Anyway, now onto Loki and Sylvie.

Example of alternate reality pairing, no genetic relation proven, no Westermack Effect in play

Yeah so, the previous examples above are to demonstrate I have extremely detailed knowledge of the spectrum that incest, selfcest, alternate reality couplings can go. I didn't even touch literary sources because I doubt any detractors are old enough to read them. And I find it all fascinating and analyze it without qualms. Everything related to a character's relationship are just tools to tell a story. Either you have the gut for it, or you don't, but limiting other people's work by your own lack of a stomach, please children, grow up.

The funny thing is apparently, it takes a gamer like me to tell you when incest isn't even in play? Nice logic, uh?

Here's the thing, MCU set up its own rules pretty clearly, and anybody yelling 'incest' clearly didn't even bother using their brain because they just want the narrative set, so they can keep screaming.

I think it all started from Loki falsely calling Sylvie a variation or 'copy' of himself in Episode 3. By Episode 5, we have seen proof that all Loki's of any kind and of any reality , are allowed to exist until their actions would cause a new Kang variant to spawn. That is the TRUE MISSION of the TVA. The prevent of more Kang variants from spawning.

All other timelines were railroaded to set events, and as long as they followed them more or less, and that their actions never cause a Kang variant, they are allowed to exist. Hence Classic Loki, Boastful Loki, Alligator Loki, and the myriad of trash-goblin Lokis.

I dare you to say that all of these Lokis are exactly the genetically the same. Other than President Loki who at least looks like Tom, the rest do not. Even Classic Loki at Tom's age would be young Richard E.Grant.

The confusion came from people taking Loki's insistence that Sylvie is a copy of him at face value in Episode 3 when he literally didn't know the whole truth. And somehow some fools deliberately keep their thought process at that point despite Episode 5 proving otherwise.

Thus instead of seeing Sylvie as distinctly a separate person as much as the other variant Lokis, she is lumped in as 'just Tom-Loki but with an X chromosome'.

Which not gonna lie, comes off pretty sexist, the outdated method of defining female characters by their relationship to their male counterparts, in this case quite literally.

These same people also get real quiet when it's pointed out that Tobey/Andrew/Tom Holland all play Spider-Man and are they genetically identical? Even better, their Uncle Bens are also not identical, which means those using the 'same parents' argument have no ammunition either.

Naturally there's also no Westermack Effect in play either. It is the effect that even non-genetically related children raised together would see each other as siblings and not as romantic partners. Loki and Sylvie literally just met each other 3 days ago, and Loki never had a sister and Sylvie may have had a sibling but it's been so long ago that she doesn't remember them well. The psychological wall that comes between children raised together and which has nothing to do with genetics anyway literally isn't there. So no genetic relation, no Westermack Effect, Sylki is an easy sexy ship to get into, not even an inconvenience.

@shadow-turtle-234 'Pro-incest'? Baby boy/girl, for the right story why the fuck not. Isn't Flowers in the Attic required reading for your grade level, or did you refuse to read it on delicate stomach grounds?

The audience of Crash Bandicoot 4 reacted with more maturity than folks like you in regards to Loki. How truly laughable.

If some more 18 year old prudish children want to censor the goddamn literary and creative world because of their disappointing vanilla sex/relationship knowledge and drives, what a truly disgustingly blah world it would be.

I gotta be honest, I just really want Loki and Sylvie to bang in Season 2

Implied, cutaway, off-screen, I honestly don't care. Cut to them just staring into the ceiling without their clothes on, that's good enough.

It's partially cos duh, I ship them, they're hot and hot for each other, I wanna see that happen. But also partially because of spite. I want to see the meltdown everywhere, all of it. I want to drink all the goddamn 'moral outraged' tears.

And if Disney just goes 'fuck it' and have them genderswap and bang all ways too (again it can be implied, you just gotta show the possibility that it's happened), then I will buy a Disney Funko Pop every month for a year (hey, gotta be realistic with my budget).

Hell, it's a win-win if they do a genderswap episode, and female-presenting-Loki looks nothing like Sylvie and vice versa for male-presenting-Sylvie, then the 'genetically similar' argument becomes nothing. I think the only limit is finding an actor and actress who look and can act like Tom and Sophia to be honest.

I am absolutely not even going to disguise this desire with some florid self-love reasoning. This is Tumblr, fetishes and pairings were once born here. In my best He Who Remains voice: "We're all horny on main here."