#this is in response to the ppl who think amab and afab nonbinary ppl are men and women Lite

[official-lucifers-child]

actually any kiss is gay if i’m involved. i don’t care who i’m kissing, it’s a gay experience and a gay kiss. because i said so. if the person i am kissing is straight, that’s cool, i don’t care. it may be a straight kiss for them, but it’s a gay kiss for me, and that’s what matters. if the person i’m kissing doesn’t like that, then they shouldn’t kiss me. simple as that.

[bitegore]

"can you stop blaming transmascs and afab enbies for the idea of being nonbinary being an afab thing" well you see. this is not a stereotype that straight people created. most of them don't know what nonbinary people are. you gotta acknowledge at some point that if you're creating exclusionary spaces you are causing problems. and the nonbinary community is exclusionary as fuck to amab enbies. take some fucking responsibility

like it isn't your fault, personally, sure. But that doesn't mean that you get to pretend it's not something that comes from and is largely propagated inside this community.

also not for nothing the afab trans community in general has a ridiculously massive issue with being transmisogynistic as fuck (while simultaneously putting the ''''''good'''''' trans women up on pedestals until they show signs of being human people who make mistakes) and this whole take just... idk man.

individual enbies are not the cause of transmisogyny in the nonbinary space but if you are an afab enby... consider.... you MAY be transmisogynistic! and if you hate hearing people talk about the way it's hard for amab enbies to be nonbinary in this community because you feel blamed, it may be because you are transmisogynistic! i get that unlearning bigoted ideas is haaaard and scaaaary but like. stop. if you're old enough to be making discourse posts you're old enough to learn to not be a douche

[askanonbinary]

About the afab/amab split - before identifying as nb and looking for communities, most of the nb people I knew of were contestants on rpdr, who are all amab. Just an example of how the split can be based on where you're looking. Also had a thought as I was writing - maybe amab tend to use gnc more than nb? I know 1 afab who identifies as gnc and quite a few amabs, but again that might be a matter of what parts of the population are visible to me.

thank you for offering your experience. context means a lot!

i think i would like the moral of the story to be, in part, that you while you might feel alone, you probably aren’t, you just might not be finding what you are looking for in the place you are looking!

I’m not sure about the gnc label but it’s an interesting point. if you are looking for a particular community, it might be helpful to look under multiple somewhat overlapping tags. people might tend to congregate under certain terms that are similar to what you personally use, but different. while you might not be comfortable with a certain label, it might help you find people with similar experiences.

i am sure everyone here would love to offer more amab support, but we personally are responsive to the asks we get, which, in part, accounts for our ratios.

(i wanted to add, as a little thing that i find slightly concerning in regard to this, that while some ppl might be willing to talk about their agabs, as i do for example, not all nonbinary people want to divulge that, and that’s also ok! i’m very open about mine, and a lot of nonbinary people seem to be online at least, but it’s easy to begin to expect people to divulge their agabs in conversations like this, and no one owes that. i talk about my agab because i find it easiest to relate to people or provide examples when i can pull from specific examples in my personal life but that doesn’t mean other people need to.)

-Danny

[laurellynnleake]

serious question: imagine for a moment that a feminist lesbian calling a trans man female is a severe enough crime to justify a 3-on-1 beating of the sort we advocate for actual Nazis to get. what could any of your pals say to the feminist lesbian that would justify her getting her friends and beating them up? when they call her a "vagina fetishist" can she and her friends bash them? how about when they tell her she should be assaulted to cure her lack of interest in AMAB ppl?

here’s a serious response that you don’t deserve, because you are clearly asking these questions in the most loaded way possible and have already decided that trans people are this fantastical evil violent mob:

1) Read my post again. 

2) Read my post again. Then think about how I said repeatedly that I did not advocate assault in the unsubstantiated version of events where a man (who you seem to think can’t have also been feminist because he’s trans?) and two friends jumped a woman (a poor “feminist” woman who isn’t at all like nazis who advocate and engage in the assault and murder of marginalized groups like trans people).

3) I don’t trust TERFs whatsoever on their version of events here. It’s most likely that the situation did not happen the way she claimed. She’s a pretty shitty feminist if she thinks she decides some women don’t count as women also. And if she thinks that a man is actual “a female” because she says so and therefor a traitor to womankind or whatever. It’s entirely within reason that she has lied to cover up her own actions threatening or assaulting this man and his friends.

4) I think trans people (and their friends) have the right to defend themselves against assault and it’s clear bigotry on your part that you are challenging that with these “but what ifs!!!” What if everyone involved was a feminist, what if everyone else in the bar was a feminist lesbian that wasn’t a TERF? What if she threatened the man and his friends? What if she’d doxxed him in the past and put his life in danger? What if she punched him first? What if his friends were protecting him? There are many very real possibilities here.

5) The spectre of an AMAB woman telling a lesbian that she needed to be assaulted to “cure her lack of interest in AMAB ppl” is a ludicrous and hateful hypothetical that you’ve cooked up because you think some women are secretly homophobic men out to infiltrate and assault you. Obviously cis men are out there who are homophobic sexist creeps and the long history of their treatment of lesbians specifically is horrific and wrong. But we’re not talking about that. We are talking about women. If you’ve seen “evidence” of this I think you should actually apply a critical eye and ask yourself - has this “evidence” been possibly edited to fit a narrative? Has context been cropped out? Is this person acting out because they and their friends have been sexually harassed and suicide-baited for days by a digital mob of TERFS and they are saying the worst thing they can think of to make them leave? All possibilities that are well within the TERF playbook that I’ve seen again and again.

6) Your dating and sexual preferences are your own business, and your own choices. No one has the right to make you have sex with anyone. But when you make your own sexual choice to only consider AFAB people with vaginas to be Real Women, that reflects a bigoted outlook on reality, and impacts how you treat people around you. It also includes a bunch of weird assumptions about trans women and trans lesbians in particular that is deeply homophobic and sexist and transphobic! Just like when white people decided they can’t possibly be attracted to or date any people of color because poc are sooooo XYZ, they are being fuckin racist. And when you join the ranks of the TERF ideology that, I will repeat, deliberately puts trans and intersex women and girls’ lives in danger through sexual and physical harassment and assault, assault, doxxing, suicide baiting, laws, and misinformation campaigns, you are being a bigot and no one has to respect that.

7) Yeah, if you think womanhood is only about being born with a vagina, you are objectifying and fetishizing womanhood and vaginas and being a jackass. Women and people of all genders are perfectly capable of celebrating vaginas and being attracted to vaginas and fighting for the reproductive rights of people with vaginas and uteruses while NOT being a hateful bigot. Oh look, I did it just now, wasn’t hard at all.

8) Since on top of all this TERFS have repeatedly allied themselves with white supremacists, I have no trouble treating them as I would a Nazi. You are not welcome here. You are not somehow privileged to threaten and abuse people without anyone ever fighting back.

9) Anyone who follows my blog who is a radfem/”gender critical”, or friends with radfems, I want you to think hard about the manipulative, hateful creeps you’re allying yourself with. You are welcome to educate yourself through the resources on my blog and on @queercomicsconnection, but if you think that you have the right to decide whether some girls and women are Really Females, you are wrong. Women are who they say they are. Nonbinary people are who they say they are. If you think the only way for you to analyze and dismantle systems of oppression is to enforce a rigid, scientifically bullshit binary, you are wrong, and you are going down a violent path. We have the right to protect trans people from your actions.