#thinking of there's that bit in s2 where michael is so obviously trying to manipulate her by calling her 'mum'

[normalbrothers]

1, 3, 5 generally, 13 (about polly) for the salty fandom asks >:)

What OTPs in your fandom(s) do you just not get?

i'd guess the main otps in this fandom are tommy/grace, tommy/lizzie and tommy/alfie - which i all understand. the former two are literally consummated relationships in the show and you can see how they got there and the latter is a good dynamic between two male characters (hdhdhd), and i'm interested in/fine with all of them as far as watching pb goes. there are couple of popular tropes/takes assigned to these relationships that i don't really agree with or find fitting for the characters, and they tend to bleed through in fic, so it's kind of a hit and miss often enough, but as far as canon goes, they are all fine to me (in the specific ways they exist, etc), so i do get them (to answer the question as directly as possible) though imho this is one of these questions where it also becomes obvious that pb fandom doesn't really have traditional fandom dynamics where there are several OTP corners/niches of either canon or non-canon relationships (that don't involve tommy, and there are a couple!) that you could argue about; everything is so oversaturated with oc or y/n fic that you don't really have this stuff naturally occur in greater measure. which is sad, honestly.

Have you ever unfollowed someone over a fandom opinion

sure have! i've grown a little more "lenient" or open-minded or patient about stuff, so it's not something i tend to do right away anymore, but i think there are probably still a couple of opinions i'd unfollow someone for.

Has fandom ever ruined a pairing for you?

"ruined" is a harsh word, but tommy/alfie isn't that interesting to me anymore: most fics are either Margate Fics(tm) or stuck in s2 or just complete aus that have little to do with the characters in the first place and often it's tommy being written as separate/isolated from the family which is always kind of boring to me: i need to know what's happening Over There ! i get why this happens, etc, but it's a shame, since the relationship actually went through a couple of canon developments that could be explored. (THOUGH i do have to say alfie has grown somewhat obnoxious to me in s5/s6, and i ended up not really liking his and tommy's scenes (they are *fine*, but i sort of think it was a mistake to have brought him back after s4 at all, and i think you can see that in these seasons, even if alfie's function is plausible). and that's not quite the fandom's fault, that's kind of on the show/writing to be fair)

Unpopular opinion about XXX character? (Polly)

she's either reduced to the girlboss matriarch who's badass and right about everything (boring) or diminished in her own arc (re: michael) or caricatively mischaracterized as a jealous harpy when it comes to tommy and gr/ace (yawn), and it's all so terrible and doesn't dignify the character at all there's a trend of her being deprived of the complexity she absolutely has in canon (literally thee female lead, and what for!!), when what makes her so good is that she's faulty and flawed and this compelling melting pot of conflicting and contradictory desires and wants and emotions and ambitions and trauma and hypocrisies; and it all plainly plays out for everyone to see! she's as multifaceted as tommy and arthur, and as good and bad, as sympathetic and as hard to like as either of them. obviously, her arc has been tragically cut short, but there's still plenty of it when revisting the show, and her impact is tangible: anyone who's watched s6 probably had that odd moment of going 'oh i know how polly would have felt about that/what polly would have done/said here', that's how good she was, a perfectly realized character potrayed by an extraordinary actress!

[oetravia]

elizabeth chynoweth, og max evans, tess harding, rnm kyle valenti

Oooh, you’re trying to make me controversial??

Elizabeth Chynoweth

How I feel about this character?

Sad. Sad is my main feeling when it comes to Elizabeth. She made a lot of mistakes, many of which were definitely avoidable, but, more than anything, she was simply a product of her time. Which apparently an abhorrent crime where a lot the Poldark fandom is concerned.

All the people I ship romantically with this character

I’m not sure how much I ship her with any of the men she’s romantically connected with, if I’m being perfectly honest. None of them had a clear picture of her, and actually coveted whatever ideal they had created in their heads rather than Elizabeth herself, and that’s just tragic. 

With Ross, I wish so much in their relationship had gone differently, and more than anything, I wish they’d both had the strength to let the other go completely.

With Francis, I wish they’d had a better chance. Once Ross came back their’s was never going to be a happy marriage, but they could’ve had a chance if Francis in particular had gotten out of his own way. I genuinely think if he’d lived, they’d have ended up okay. They’re such an almost relationship it’s painful.

With George, I just wish Ross hadn’t gone to Trenwith that night, I wish Agatha had thought of the broader consequences of her actions than just hurting George, and I wish George himself had had a clearer understanding of Elizabeth when he’d married her (and that part of his desire for her hadn’t been about hurting Ross - because, while I genuinely believe he did love her, I think that was always part of what made her so desirable to him).

My non-romantic OTP for this character

I don’t think I have one. I just wish show!Elizabeth’s friendships hadn’t been all about other narratives (particularly Ross). I especially wish her dynamics with the other female characters had been more positive; especially Caroline.

My unpopular opinion about this character

Ross’s visit to Trenwith wasn’t her fault. Could she have handled the whole situation with Ross finding out about her engagement to George better, absolutely, but the placing the entirety of the blame for that night on Elizabeth’s shoulders is absolutely unfair.

One thing I wish had happened with this character in canon?

I wish she’d gotten to raise her daughter. I wish Valentine hadn’t lost his mother, and been left to deal with George’s shifts in attitude towards him alone. I wish she’d gotten to meet Amadora. 

Max Evans (OG)

How I feel about this character?

He deserves a LOT of the criticism thrown at him, but I think a lot of it being directed at the character is unfair, and should instead be levelled at the uneven writing and characterisation of S2/3

All the people I ship romantically with this character

Liz Parker. That’s it. Sorry. He was so focused on Liz, even when they weren’t together that I don’t think any other relationship would’ve ended happily.

My non-romantic OTP for this character

Michael, obviously. Their bond is absolutely incredible, and they make me cry so many times over the series.

And also Maria, because Maria. The development of their relationship between S1/2 was so unexpected, but so welcome. It’s such a gorgeous dynamic. I love that they not only support each other, but are 100% willing to challenge one another. It’s incredible. I wish we’d gotten the pea-pod scene from the books.

My unpopular opinion about this character.

Max made a whole bunch of mistakes, and behaved like a five star prat a lot during s2/3, but I think a lot of people forget how young the character is supposed to be. He’s, what, 17/18 by the time the series ends. Imagine yourself at seventeen, could you have dealt with all the pressure he was placed under without screwing up, and being an utter muppet sometimes? I highly doubt it. I certainly couldn’t have dealt with everything he had to deal with at 17.

That’s without mentioning the fact that he spends a large amount of S2 being manipulated by many of the other characters (even Liz; though her actions in 2x05 came from a good place. But she ensures he sees her with Kyle, effectively breaking his heart, and quickly wants back into his good graces). By the time Alex dies, he probably doesn’t know if he’s coming or going.

And bonus mention; he never gets to properly deal with the trauma of the white room. Granted, we see he’s in therapy (at least, I assume as much from the start of S2), but it’s not as if he can be honest about his problems, is it? We see that in the cold open of S2. Even in therapy, he is having to lie about his trauma. And, as we hear in the Christmas episode, the trauma of what was done to him lingers through S2.

Now, none of this is to negate his actions or behaviour, but context is important.

One thing I wish had happened with this character in canon?

A real frank discussion with everyone about what had happened during s2, and again during S3. We never really got one, just quick apologies that were pretty quickly forgotten. 

Tess Harding

How I feel about this character?

She was unfairly treated by the writers, and I’m still bitter about how her character development was thrown out the window like that. But…I loved Alex, so I’ll never be able to like her. 

All the people I ship this character with romantically

I did like her with Kyle…but I loved the family dynamic she had with the Valenti family more.

My non-romantic OTP for this character

The Valenti family + Tess was so heartwarming. 

I also wish she’d been allowed to have a better relationship with all the female characters. I think it would’ve been really good for her - especially if she’d been able to have a relationship with Liz (and Maria) that wasn’t about their respective feelings (or imagined feelings - sorry but I don’t believe for a second Tess ever really cared for Max as a person. She’d been told she loved him, and so she thought she did. I don’t think she ever really wanted to get to know him as a person, as Max…she only cared about who he had been, and who she hoped he would be again when they got back to their planet. Max with added humanity was of no consequence to her - only to enable her plan to get home) for Max.

My unpopular opinion about this character

I honestly don’t think I have any unpopular opinions about her. Other than maybe what I said above about her feelings (or lack thereof) for Max? But I don’t think even that would be particularly unpopular.

One thing I wish had happened to this character in canon?

I wish she hadn’t had to sacrifice herself to have some sort of redemption arc. 

I wish she’d realised it was okay to care for humans, and to feel safe and happy around them, the way she did with the Valentis, and had a realisation, like Michael’s, that home didn’t have to be their planet. It could be Roswell, where she’d found a family.

Kyle Valenti (RNM)

How I feel about this character

Kyle Valenti is the best person in Roswell, and we don’t deserve him. I said what I said.

Honestly though, he’s just the greatest isn’t he? Wonderful character development, both on screen and off it during the ten years we haven’t seen yet. And he’s not afraid to admit he was wrong, or own up to his mistakes. A MAN.

(I mean…the boy does get confused between Star Wars and Star Trek, so he does have some flaws…)

All the people I ship this character with romantically

Hmmm, I still ship Kyle/Liz a little bit, even though Max/Liz are the clear winners there. The fact that he supports her no matter what is lovely, and he makes her feel safe which is so tender, and important. I just love their dynamic, romantic or otherwise.

And how could I not ship Kyle/Alex. Their relationship is just so great to watch, and now that he’s done the necessary growing since high school (and apologised sincerely for his behaviour towards Alex during those years), I genuinely think they could have an interesting, healthy, and meaningful relationship. And Alex could get him to actually watch Star Wars, because BOY.

My non-romantic OTP for this character

Also Kyle/Liz and Kyle/Alex, to be perfectly honest. 

Make it Kyle/Alex/Michael because that dynamic was hilarious, and I very much hope we get to see more of it!

My unpopular opinion about this character

Again, I don’t have any, I don’t think.

I mean, he’s probably the character I feel has most in common with his OG counterpart, and it works very well (in a way that making the other characters more like their OG selves wouldn’t), but I don’t think that’s unpopular…

One thing I wish would happen with this character?

Give Kyle a love interest worthy of him! Don’t leave him as Liz’s second choice/handy on call hookup. Trevino’s acting is too good for that, please don’t waste his potential the way it was wasted in TVD (bitter? me?!)

My gosh this got long! Sorry! But thanks for the characters, Lucie, this was fun!