#they were a woman. nor would The Popular Ship be r*ylo. that's not me scaremongering about misogyny that's just. true.

[musical-chick-13]

Thinking about that "If K*ylo R*n were a woman everything would be better and this character would have worked" post, but after some consideration...I genuinely would have still hated this character.

Like...Idk maybe there's something to be said for the still-subversive nature of characters like this being allowed to be horrible women, but I don't hate this character because he's horrible, or even because he exemplifies a bunch of things in fiction I'm tired of seeing, I hate him because he doesn't feel fully-formed as a character to me and I don't think the movies know what they're trying to accomplish with him from a narrative standpoint (which are, imo, the biggest Story Sins a writer can commit). All of which would still hold true if this character were a woman.

[janiedean]

I never thought I'd be this person but I legit said"what hetero nonsense is this" when Rose said love and kissed Finn lol

okay anon this is not against you and I know you didn’t mean this seriously and I know this reply might be overreacting, and you probably didn’t see that I previously posted about hating how this fandom (especially *my* subfandom technically) is reacting to finnrose so you probably didn’t know, but: no.

specifically:

it wasn’t random nor nonsense. she had a fangirl crush on him, she got to know him better and she liked him and she thought she was about to bloody die. if I was in her place I also would kiss the guy I like if anything to know I’ve done it.

on the other side, he needed to talk to someone he didn’t know already and to show him a different side of things and who made him realize that the resistance was more than single people he might have cared for or not going against the big bad evil, which was what made him finally stop running. he didn’t kiss her back but it’s nice that he gets it from someone who likes him genuinely, especially coming after a life of dehumanization.

so it wasn’t nonsense, it was a plot decision you can like or not but saying it was out of left field or made no sense or was nonsensical is not a thing I can agree with because imo it was very well-developed and like in a life or death situation I would probably try to kiss the guy I liked, and rose liking finn was already introduced from the moment she showed up and then she just got to like him as the person he was rather than the supposed *legend* or whatever, which... is... nice. it’s normal. it happens. why the hell should it be nonsensical?

ah, because it was heteronormative and apparently if het ships happen it’s bad because they’re heterosexual, which is like, typical tumblr drivel and sorry but nah.

(now, before I go into it: if it had been rey kissing finn, would people be crying about heteronormative nonsense? idk. just a thought. and guess what, for me finn/rey is like, the most platonic shit in existence and I can’t see the two of them kissing romantically and it making any sense so we all see it differently, but if it had happened I’d have shrugged and moved on with my life. anyway.)

listen, guys, let’s be freaking real, as much as tumblr likes to think the contrary, straight/heterosexual people make up 90% of the demographic. heteronormativity is normativity because nine people on ten are straight. the problem is when heteronormativity is seen as the only default. the point is that if you want to counteract that you have to push to normalize relationships that are not heteronormative and make sure they’re seen as a valid alternative to the norm, but you can’t honestly go and say that heteronormativity is in itself statistically wrong because it’s not, nor that it’s in itself inherently wrong because then you pass the message that if you’re straight you’re *wrong* and honestly from a website where the message that people think they’re passing is that *you aren’t -wrong- for your sexuality I’m really tired to see that it’s valid for everything except straight people. because it’s really fun to go online and wade through posts on posts of people joking about how if you’re straight you’re Bad, you have no tastes, you’re not a good lay if you’re a man and should date women anyway if you’re a woman and everything bad in the world is the fault of you horrible straight person and ah, wait, being straight is also boring and who would choose to be straight -

except that you don’t choose your sexuality. no, I didn’t choose mine either. (yes, I’m straight if it wasn’t clear, and I’m getting progressively pissed off at this attitude. actually I’ve gone past the point of pissed off, but never mind that.

so like, now apparently if a heterosexual ship happens it’s all because they wanted to cater to the straight crowd and it’s all nonsense just because it’s a man and a woman locking lips!

and like, fuck, no. this idea that finnrose is inherently nonsense because it’s *heteronormative* and they pushed finn on a WOMAN THAT’S NOT REY is.... sorry, I know you didn’t mean it like that and I don’t wanna sound like an asshole, but if you say that rey would have been cool and rose isn’t then WHY, I mean isn’t rose okay enough? good enough? I mean I’ve read some stuff on *my ship’s* tag which was reeking racism because rose was apparently a downgrade and rey was the only option they could accept *if finn had to be with a woman* and honestly, no?? that’s... like... no??? I find it really rich coming from people who ship... a pairing.... made of nonwhite people.... at least for US standards (yeah I ship finn/poe mainly and this movie has made me block half of the tag for the finnrose vitriol IMAGINE HOW NICE). and IT ONLY HAPPENED SO THEY COULD CANCEL THE GAY COUPLE is like... a) it wasn’t gonna happen in the MIDDLE movie anyway esp. a franchise that gets distributed in countries where the gay couple would mean a ban/the movie not getting released (like, we do remember the beauty and the beat wank over damned lefou for what, ten seconds of him dancing with a dude??), b) means that finn’s sl would have had any worth just if he and poe made out (and same for poe) which basically means reducing their storylines to them making out? like, that’s... really.... sad? they only have worth as characters if they make out? sorry, I can’t really rally behind that. I care about them as characters and I loved their sl this movie and if they don’t kiss WHATEVER, 99% of the m/m couples I shipped in my life stayed not canon and it never changed my life, even if they were in relationships with women. that’s why fanfic exists. maybe next movie we’re getting it (because anyway rose kissed finn, he didn’t kiss back or anything so it can go there or it can’t and whichever way it goes I’m okay with it) maybe we’re not, but saying that their existence is useless if they don’t kiss or bang or aren’t *gay* just reeks of tokenism to me and the fact that finnrose is being described as heteronormative bullshit made to appease the r/eylo people or to deny people finn/poe is really not a thing I can rally behind either.

like, again, there’s nothing NONSENSE behind it and the fact that you attached heteronormative to it again means that the problem with it is that it’s an heterosexual ship and given that it had all reasons for existing and that, again, I’m really fucking tired of every straight relationship in new media getting thrown at the wolves just because it’s straight and being straight on tumblr is Very Bad TM so... sorry. it’s not. and like, if according to you it was just *nonsense* fine, you didn’t like it, legit, but heteronormative nonsense? really? can we just.... not... frame it as if anything heteronormative or heterosexual or straight is The Worst especially since on top of that finnrose is actually pretty progressive as a thing? I mean, when was the last time you saw a main black lead in an immensely popular scifi franchise that everyone and their kids watch in a relationship with an asian woman? never. like, it’s progressive, too, not the same way finn/poe is but progressive nonetheless, so... like... can’t we just let this goddamned ship live and be the cute thing it was without splitting hairs?

because sorry but again the fact that the main objections I’ve seen were a) IT’S STRAIGHT AND NOT GAY, b) he’s kissing rose and not rey IF WE HAD TO HAVE A STRAIGHT SHIP, c) IT’S PROREYLO AND ANTISTORMPILOT which.... uuughhh. like, can’t y’all take things the way they are? (nvm that I could rant for three hours about how r*ylo was like, written to happen and the fact that people don’t want to recognize that a villain has a personality is another entire problem but never mind.) it’s a cute ship. it happens to be straight. it’s also fairly progressive in itself. it was put on a good (imo) storyline which made sense and everything poor rose did was kissing the dude she liked after saving his life and thinking she was about to die. lay off her, pls?

last thing: since - we all guessed it by now - I happen to be straight can... y’all... please... not send me asks about how shitty heteronormative ships are and the likes? I mean, I know it’s a problem in a lot of cases and I’m more than willing to call it out if it’s obviously done maliciously but this wasn’t the case and I’m honestly tired of this STRAIGHTS ARE TERRIBLE drivel and HETERONORMATIVITY IS INHERENTLY BAD drivel and so on. especially when it’s about a thing I don’t actively ship but liked (finnrose) and then I have to go into my ship’s tag (f/p) and see it trashed to hell and back and read posts over posts about how they fucked up f/p for THE STRAIGHTS when I’d be the first person to offer the entire cinema a beer if it actually was canon. like, I’d be overjoyed if it was. but not at the cost of being assholes to other people who ship other things or at the cost of trashing on this movie for things that don’t exist or deny both of those two’s character arcs because at the end of it THEY AREN’T GAY. (as if they couldn’t be bi or pan, but of course anything that implies that someone could be in a rship with someone of the different sex is okay just as long as the relationship isn’t with someone of a different sex. like. please guys. no.)

last thing: don’t take this rant personally anon I’m sure you meant well, but you just touched on a thing that is really irking me lately and my hand slipped. I’m really meaning no ill will I’m just really tired of this HORRIBLE HETERONORMATIVE complaints thrown around like candy because of course everyone has feelings and shouldn’t be insulted except straight people because they are the majority so they can go die in a fire as far as tumblr cares. peace.