#they don't really give a shit about each other but it's bc they dgaf that they can be more honest with each other to a certain extent. mayb

[randomidiocyncrazies]

@lishenkaaa okay so. ngl this kinda possessed me a little bit lol lol (rancid toxic doomed yaoi that makes everything worse!)

long incoherent ramble about possible Ruka/Saionji (SaiRuka?) dynamics under the cut

timeline-wise, Ruka is introduced when Saionji already had his duel and lost miserably, and dies before the culmination of Touga's manipulation of Nanami takes place—it's difficult to think of a situation where they'd meet at all, given that Saionji seems to drop out of the dueling game in earnest and only comes back when Touga reached out for help in the last arc.

but... there's nothing that outright contradicts any combination of Touga, Saionji and Ruka being classmates before Ruka got sick and left school. They're implied to all be third years, and the middle school flashbacks of Juri and Shiori suggests that Ruka did not exist back then. So it's possible that Ruka went to a different middle school, attended Ohtori for high school and became fencing club captain in his 2nd year, and left at the end of his 2nd year/beginning of 3rd year (at which point Juri took over). The passage of time is entirely vibes-based in Ohtori, but if you lay it out like that, then it's possible that Ruka and Saionji would know of each other before the point we see them in the show. (I still don't think they'd give a shit about each other, but it gives us more possibilities to work with.)

Judging by the flahbacks, Saionji's inferiority complex towards Touga started early middle school at the latest, so Ruka wouldn't be on Saionji's radar during their first year in high school, since he's already fixated on his competition with Touga. (Plus, Touga's self-worth in part comes from his ability to manipulate Saionji, so i think he'd sabotage any attempts to make other friends even if Saionji had been so inclined.) And once Juri joins the high school fencing club, Ruka would've been drawn to her potential and hidden vulnerability, wanting to 'save' her from her emotional turmoil.

...All of this is a very long-winded way of saying that I think it's possible that Ruka could've noticed some of the underlying issues between Saionji and Touga's toxic friendship if he shared classes with at least one of them, but only in a distant manner—it's none of his business, and he thinks they both suck. Being a fellow manipulator (or at least having a similar capacity for manipulation as Touga, even if he wasn't actively manipulating anyone back then), Ruka could see through Touga's shtick, while Saionji is too damn brutal and hostile towards everyone to have much of the 'potential' or 'nobility' that'd compel Ruka to want to 'save' him, even if he pities him in a distant and somewhat condescending way.

The fact that they got more and more toxic doesn't help. (Yayyy being entrenched in abusive cycles/unhealthy patterns!) If Saionji was unworthy of being 'saved' in the past, he deserves it even less now. So Ruka comes back, lives a "normal school life" and sets up his scheme, and comes into contact with Saionji to learn more about the duels from an outside source/not Touga and Akio. He kind pities Saionji in a "wow this loser is so pathetic" way in part because he sees how much Touga and Saionji's unhealthy friendship took a toll of them, though Saionji's disdain for EotW might pique his interest and probably is the only thing that he kinda respects Saionji for.

As for Saionji, Ruka's vague smug pity would've been enough to piss him off without Ruka trying to 'save' him through manipulation. Being pitied means he's inferior to Ruka, means he's fundamentally not seen as an equal, means he's 'weak'—and it'd be extra infuriating if Ruka is so much better at swordplay that he genuinely can't beat him... which could be a similarity Ruka shares with Touga? (Though to be honest isn't a very clear-cut indication that Touga's skill level was on a completely different level from Saionji's, so perhaps Saionji's whole "we've sparred so many times, today he just happened to win" in ep 9 wasn't just lying/trying to save face.) I think there's also an additional layer about trust and expectation that could be kind of interesting to explore, in that he wants to trust Touga but past experiences have taught him that he should expect some kind of hidden barb, while with Ruka there's no reason to trust him aside from the fact that Ruka doesn't really care enough about him to have to manipulate him in earnest. And like... I do think Ruka would be more honest with him than with, say, Juri, because Saionji is nobody to him.

TL;DR: Ruka might see some similarities between Saionji and Juri's situations, but deems Saionji 'undeserving' of being 'saved', because he lacks potential/nobility and is just a violent brute*. Meanwhile, Ruka's condescending pity pushes all of Saionji's rage buttons, but because he doesn't care enough about Saionji to manipulate him, their interactions are more genuine in a really bizarre way.

*Juri's "hidden face" is discussed in ep 7, and she herself jokes about how it makes her sound like a "wild beast." Could this potentially be something? idk. Juri and Saionji are fundamentally very different people, who may share some similarities, but remain very distinct individuals

P.S. It's even more hilarious if you add Touga into the mix. Ruka and Touga were essentially colleagues when Ruka was around in canon, and their dynamic seemed to be some variant of "i know you have an agenda, but i won't get in your way if you don't get in mine"—which potentially raises a complication re:Saionji.

Given that Touga had other ongoing schemes, I think he probably stopped actively keeping tabs on Saionji at least until his BS with Nanami was over—if we stick to Ruka's canonical death, then Touga might not even have noticed or cared about any connection between the two? He had no reason to actively keep tabs on Saionji, he was busy with other mind games, and he knows Ruka's goal is tied to Juri. Touga is still confident in his own prowess and position as Akio's right-hand at this point.

But... if Ruka survived until after Nanami, then Touga might be more Concerned™, since i think Nanami somewhat shook him up? (I interpreted her final arc as her starting to pull away from Touga/not depend on him so much.) Akio also moves onto Utena in earnest, which both threatens Touga's position as his right-hand and also dredges up his feelings for her—Touga would be vulnerable at this point, and might have a stronger reaction to Ruka honing on his territory/his chewtoy. Touga would probably feel threatened that someone else was messing up his status quo—in canon he reached out to Saionji on his own terms, but if Ruka is involved here, he might be more desperate to regain the upper-hand, making his reconciliation with Saionji into yet more manipulation bullshit, which traps him and Saionji in their toxic cycle.

Also, if Ruka didn't die and had diverted Saionji's attention away from Touga by starting his own rancid relationship with him, would Saionji still have supported Touga as much during Touga's final duel? Would Touga be able to come to the conclusion that he really does genuinely care for Utena in some way, and would he have any inkling that Akio's machinations ultimately keeps them trapped in their coffins? Probably not! It's Saionji who asks whether he loves Utena, and it's Saionji who makes the observation that they're all still trapped.

So if Saionji and Ruka are in dysfunctional yaoi by the time Touga wants to reconcile and get a second opinion, Touga's probably more doomed than he was in canon—he'd probably cling even more to Akio's way of doing things without a sounding board who challenges him. And if Touga didn't reach out to Saionji, would Saionji realize they're all still trapped within their coffins? Maybe! But probably only deep down in his subconscious, remaining unarticulated, which isn't really that helpful.

Meanwhile, with Ruka still around, Shiori would probably keep fixating on him, which hurts Juri because she can't get away from the people who wounded her or have a chance to recuperate and re-evaluate her relationships in private/move on, which hurts Ruka because he essentially gave up everything and made Juri hate him for this one desperate gambit, but was unable to 'save' her anyway.

TL;DR: SaiRuka really does make everything worse lmfao

has anyone considered ruka and saionji. i don't think anyone would be fixed but it would be incredibly entertaining.