#these two women didn't interact nearly as much after ahmed's became sultan

[ibrahimnerde]

out of the woman of the dynasty I’d have been most interested in seeing Handan interact with the woman who trained her

Me too! The more I read and think about it, I understand’s how in Ahmed I reign things were different and new. Handan was neither noble born nor the eldest. Even if her title is officially the highest rank, there are some people who are inherently more dominant and authoritative over her. Like Safiye or Gevethan sultan. I think if they showed those who trained Handan like Geverhan sultan she’d definitely bow to them.

What do you think of the bowing etiquette in MC and MCK? Specially between Valide sultans like in MC Ayşe Hafsa sultan didn’t bow to Sultan Suleiman or Hatice sultan but in MCK Handan sultan bowed to Safiye sultan, Fahriye sultan and Sultan Ahmed….even Safiye sultan bowed to Sultan Ahmed. Is it because they were slaves? Then why Kösem Sultan didn’t bow to Murad IV?

I think in Handan’s case is the old habits die hard. In first first episodes, she bowed to Safiye and Fahriye because she is probably used bowing to them. Safiye’s presence screams dominance and authority and that’s why Handan was never able to assert herself after becoming Valide. I am pretty sure Fahriye doesn’t bow to Handan to show us that Handan is weak and no title will make her gain respect. That’s the whole concept of her character that she is weak. Later, Handan will try to adapt to her position and won’t bow to them anymore but still she couldn’t assert herself as authoritative.

Hafsa sultan was very noble. She wasn’t as bossy as Safiye or Kosem but she was nobel and made people around her respect her with her nobility. It is not about being from slave origin because Kosem never bowed to her son.

That leads me to talk about Safiye and Handan bowing to Ahmet. Safiye’s one is hard. She is not valide sultan anymore,but she is still someone Ahmed should respect seniority and age wise. I can’t find a proper explanation cause historically Safiye if bowed probably did it in official events if they ever met after she went to old palace. In the show her bowing to him is just….weird I guess they just wanted to show that Safiye is scared of getting exiled so she was trying to stay on his safe-side? I don’t think it has to do with being slave origin because she IS his senior and she didn’t always bow for example when she was in old palace and Ahmed came to tell her about Kosem father incident , he entered with “dastoor” and she didn’t bow so idk. Handan tho is to basically show that she is weak and isn’t adapting to her valide position.

Kosem sultan bowed to Osman when he was sultan but not Murad and not Ibrahim. That just shows that she , like Safiye, was trying to show the sultan that she is laying low so he wouldn’t consider her a threat, but in Murad and Ibrahim’s reigns she already assert already dominance and won’t bow to her sons.

That’s my observation tho could be wrong.

[redxluna]

Oh no, I absolutely think it was meant to provide a very pointed view of Handan’s character. For her to show deferment to even Fahriye shows that she’s so dominated by Safiye that she shows such forms of respect even to those related to her.

Of course, the historical reality of, not just the characters in question, but how Ahmed treated the women in his life (he considerably downgraded his mother’s power once he had a chance) affects these in a whole different sort of way that I’ll leave off for now.

Small side note, though, out of the woman of the dynasty I’d have been most interested in seeing Handan interact with the woman who trained her to be presented to Murad in the first place (and, who, in the interest of microhistory, I could definitely see her bowing out of respect to still).

“Soon after his succession, young Ahmed wanted to express his gratitude to Mehmed Pasha and Gevherhan Sultan for the role they had played in bringing his parents together, a generous act which turned out to be a blessing for him. […] Ahmed would later name his […] daughter Gevherhan to further mark his great-great-aunt’s role in his life.” – Günhan Börekçi, Factions and Favorites at the Courts of Sultan Ahmed I and His Immediate Predecessors

What do you think of the bowing etiquette in MC and MCK? Specially between Valide sultans like in MC Ayşe Hafsa sultan didn’t bow to Sultan Suleiman or Hatice sultan but in MCK Handan sultan bowed to Safiye sultan, Fahriye sultan and Sultan Ahmed….even Safiye sultan bowed to Sultan Ahmed. Is it because they were slaves? Then why Kösem Sultan didn’t bow to Murad IV?

I think in Handan’s case is the old habits die hard. In first first episodes, she bowed to Safiye and Fahriye because she is probably used bowing to them. Safiye’s presence screams dominance and authority and that’s why Handan was never able to assert herself after becoming Valide. I am pretty sure Fahriye doesn’t bow to Handan to show us that Handan is weak and no title will make her gain respect. That’s the whole concept of her character that she is weak. Later, Handan will try to adapt to her position and won’t bow to them anymore but still she couldn’t assert herself as authoritative.

Hafsa sultan was very noble. She wasn’t as bossy as Safiye or Kosem but she was nobel and made people around her respect her with her nobility. It is not about being from slave origin because Kosem never bowed to her son.

That leads me to talk about Safiye and Handan bowing to Ahmet. Safiye’s one is hard. She is not valide sultan anymore,but she is still someone Ahmed should respect seniority and age wise. I can’t find a proper explanation cause historically Safiye if bowed probably did it in official events if they ever met after she went to old palace. In the show her bowing to him is just….weird I guess they just wanted to show that Safiye is scared of getting exiled so she was trying to stay on his safe-side? I don’t think it has to do with being slave origin because she IS his senior and she didn’t always bow for example when she was in old palace and Ahmed came to tell her about Kosem father incident , he entered with “dastoor” and she didn’t bow so idk. Handan tho is to basically show that she is weak and isn’t adapting to her valide position.

Kosem sultan bowed to Osman when he was sultan but not Murad and not Ibrahim. That just shows that she , like Safiye, was trying to show the sultan that she is laying low so he wouldn’t consider her a threat, but in Murad and Ibrahim’s reigns she already assert already dominance and won’t bow to her sons.

That’s my observation tho could be wrong.