#their childhood dynamic doesn't really change even after they've become friends lol

[hothammies]

morning hug - apoc au relationship details under the cut!

--- mike and will's (+ the og party's) background:

is it mike and will if they aren't childhood besties? their moms were friends before the infection hit and they saw each other occasionally before the apocalypse

after the apocalypse, they lived in the same walled community with their families and stuck together for a long time! from ages 4 to 7, they were basically each other's only friends until lucas came around at age 8 and dustin came around at age 9

the boys were separated from their families because a neighboring group attacked, effectively destroying the community (more on that another time)

this is when the og party learned to live and survive with each other!

in this au -> mike fell first, will fell harder :)

just friends... with benefits:

are able to talk about anything and everything

each other's closest relationship out of the party -> used to rely on each other emotionally (much more strained after they started doing fwb)

tentative fwb - usually only engage in benefits after they've had a bad day or are really stressed out

things feel normal when they're together and the morning after but then they give each other the cold shoulder...

mike has started making a habit of ensuring that there's a buffer person between the two of them when he assigns jobs (cannot handle the tension)

are currently -> avoiding each other + the other party members have noticed (they don't know ab the two of them)

what is their problem?

mike is scared of being committed to each other because he's seen what happens to people (his mom, rip ted LOL) who have lost their partners. he doesn't want that to happen to him or will were one of them to die.

he's also afraid of the possibility that a relationship between the two of them could affect the party's whole group dynamic and set things off, because he's more worried about their survival then he is about his own feelings towards will.

he loves will so unbelievably much that it hurts, and the idea of getting even closer to will and suddenly losing him hurts even more, so he keeps his distance.

-

will is most afraid of losing mike and the group were he to ask him to take their feelings any further. he's seen how devoted mike is to the group and to him, but he doesn't know if there's a limit to what mike is willing to tolerate from him.

he doesn't want to take the risk of alienating either of them, and he cherishes his relationship with mike so much that he's willing to go along with what mike is doing, which is straining their friendship.

will is a natural giver. if all mike wants is a fwb relationship even if he wants more, than he'll give it to him, even if it's tearing him apart on the inside :') he doesn't know if mike loves him back, so will is emotionally torn up from the distance that this is creating btwn them.

---

other notes: fwb byler is a really interesting dynamic to explore, especially in this apocalypse setting - by the point in the story that they become fwb, they're 17 and they don't really have any clue about what they're doing. most of their clues about intimate relationships stem from old magazines from a while back (that don't say anything about gay relationships) as well as what their older siblings taught them when they were 12, which highlighted the emotional aspect and not the physical aspect.

mike and will know that something within their relationship has fundamentally changed, and they have no idea how to handle it. however, they know that they can experiment and relieve tension with each other safely, but are also extremely conflicted on how they present themselves to each other outside of their experimenting and to the party.

heteronormative societal pressure is not a conflict in this story (at least, not yet) - they don't live with anyone else except the other party members for the time being. their only conflict has to do with them both being scared of losing the other. they live in a world where anyone can die so quickly, so they don't want to fuck up what they have :'D mike wheeler is the king of being unable to process his romantic feelings properly and will byers is the king of completely repressing his emotions! they're perfect for each other!

both of them are the equivalent of shaken up soda bottles with mints inside them, ready to explode (the mints are them being friends with benefits)

[arbitrarygreay]

So I was rereading my Legacies Shipping Megapost and this part of my take on Panda Squad stood out to me:

The problem, as usual, is that in canon Hope ditches them quite a lot! It’s almost like Hope is the Lizzie to the twins’ M.G.

And I started thinking more about it, and it really is true. The pattern of history with the twins, based on what I've seen in canon, is thus: Alaric and/or Caroline pushes the twins to make friends with Hope. The twins try to. It doesn't take (as Josie put it in S1E3, Hope "pokes", picking fights). The twins back off to respect the boundaries Hope has established. Alaric and/or Caroline try to force Hope into their activites anyways, which makes both the twins and Hope angry and lash out with each other (e.g. 11th birthday party). This further entrenches their very mixed feelings such that even when the twins do feel affection (such as Josie's crush), their good-odds prediction that Hope will rebuff them makes them stay defensive. It's easy to imagine a world where the twins were mean girls vs. Hope, but the way Hope treats them even after reconciliation seems to bear out the twins' side of things: that the twins did keep making sincere overtures, and Hope never took them up on it. On the other hand, there is the very real possibility that the twins indirectly bullied Hope, as we know the other witches laughed at Hope being the villain in Lizzie's Star Wars story. Others may have bullied Hope on the twins' behalf, as the twins complained to them about the situation, and the twins certainly had more social sway than Hope (similar to how we saw the witches treat Sebastian). That might explain why Hope would never trust the twins' direct attempts at friendship. But yeah, in canon, even after they've reconciled, Hope really is the Lizzie to the twins’ M.G. She rarely chooses to interact with the twins unless she wants something from them. When the twins ask for her help, she'll give it, and they work quite well together, but when Hope has free time, they aren't her top picks. Which, there is a very family vibe to that (family as the people you can take for granted), but it's also a bit of a buzzkill for certain ship metrics, particularly for teenage romance. It's off-putting how one-sided it is that the twins chase Hope, but not vice-versa. This is why the Cleo-Hope dynamic has a spark to it, as she's basically the only person besides Landon that Hope chases. (The reason that I love Panda Squad OT3 and not Lizzie-MG despite this similarity is that for all of that, the Pandas are dynamite when they are together, whereas Lizzie and MG don't accomplish much as a team, or enjoy it when they do, in the case of football. The Pandas are even fun when they're at odds with each other, while Lizzie-MG conflict only further sinks their ship.)

[sk-lumen]

Need serious advice about setting boundaries or communicating when dealing with a person who:

Is a parent

Has unhealthy communication methods -- it takes very little for them to start full-blown screaming, shouting out all your 'negative' things/mistakes/past, can continue to scream-criticise you even after you've gone silent, for WHOLE MINUTES even if you've shut up, will not accept anything that even hints at them making a mistake

You can't trust since childhood coz u made the mistake of confiding in them with a serious issue as a young teen --- mental related --- and they belittled and invalidated you, and since then pretended you never confided in them and have NO IDEA how you've been coping without them or ANYone else for years... Yeah thanks, parent, what u said back then made me think I was the one at fault and so I stopped trusting even friends coz yeah, when ur own parent doesn't give a damn, why would anyone else?

Is a master at silent treatments without explaining what EXACTLY they're punishing you for, then when theyre in the mood, will start talking to you as if they hadn't ignored you for days. Lol I'd rather be water boarded I think. Especially for all the damage this caused when I was a child

Won't openly talk about what they want, yet expects ALL FHE TIME others (in the family) to know what they want, then will complain/scream/angry for AGES about how no one cares, no one gives a damn... And when someone asks them what they want, they either say: nothing, or "you should know! Can't u see?"

Upon asking them to please talk normally, will blow a fuse, and lose it --- happened multiple times today

Literally will use me as a scape goat to unleash their frustrations upon. Even when I leave the room, I can hear them b*tch about how much of a failure I am etc. The trigger being anything that bothers them, from a phone call to something other siblings did, bla bla. I limit my time with them... But it's like, it feels impossible to have them treat me normally, without ridiculing or criticising me. I'm already a very low self esteem person... This doesn't help AT ALL

In short, refuse to tell/ask/discuss important stuff, and getting mad randomly that no one read their mind, bcoz everyone's 'old enough to have enough sense' to know what they 'should' do... Eg will not pikc up the phone when we call them from the store to ask when what the needed isn't available, so what other alternative can we get... And then when we get home, will instead blame us for being fussy and not getting the alternative, completelt skirting around the issue they didn't deign to pick up the phone... I mean, I don't get it. In the past I HAVE in fact asked them to just openly tell me what they want/expect from me to make them happy... Got passive aggressive answers like "don't you know? Are you dumb?" Bla bla

Passive aggressive to the max when they've lost it

Expect me to drop anything I'm doing and immediately cater to them, and expect me to help them in their hobbies (while simultaneously, as I learned many years ago to much heartache, not being interested or even pretending to be interested in my hobbies. The disinterest taught me very quickly how much what I wanted meant, leading to years of self-invalidation. Luckily I've learned it really is them, not me. My hobbies are valid)

Will not talk about why they're feeling angry, what causes it. Instead will blame me, who's like the golden scapegoat in our amazing family, by saying :YOU made me negative. They've said it many times now... It hurts a lot, when I'm also struggling with my own issues which I ofc can't confide in them about :)

Today I manned up -- the outburst of hatred happened again! Over a simple thing. It was NIGHTMARE and made me angry/sad/frustrated/triggered---, and so I told them to stop talking like that... Boy was that the wrong thing to say... I don't think I can accurately tell u what happened afterwards...

Usually children learn communication skills from the parents... I at least learned to recognize the unhealthy ones, and what NOT to communicate like lol. Like, other parent is even worse, believe it or not. But that's another complex situation

I'm not bashing on the parent. Lord knows I even have that much of a right huh? I hate myself eveb more when they invalidate me if I try to show how MUCH THEY HURT me after a 'communication session'. As in, heaven forbid me if I BE SILENT afterwards and DON'T wanna listen to their retardation. Nope. Even then they provoke me, rage at me, you know how sometimes enraged people hiss vitriol thru gritted teeth? Yeah, that's what they did today after I stayed silent and tried to ignore them an hour later after the 'session' when they wabted something. It's like they don't even need me to say a word and will carry on and on for minutes 🤢

I feel alone, helpless and at a loss what to do

I want to move out. Due to severe mental issues I can't even move out rn coz it scares me even more. But this has to stop. Things are only okay if I'm absolutely passive, say yes to whatever they want, kill my wants and needs, and become a perfect robot bred to cater to them (parent)

I hope you can help me out, dear

Hi darling,

It sounds like you’re in a considerably toxic environment. I'm sorry you're going through this. Know that this is not normal, nor is it how a parent/child relationship should be. In case there's any doubt, let me start by saying you deserve to be supported, respected, listened to, to have your needs met. You deserve to live in an environment that offers you all of these things.

With that being said, from the many scenarios you’ve mentioned you’ve already tried reasoning and setting boundaries, to no avail. There is only so much you can do on your own, if the other person in the equation is not meeting halfway or at all. After all, a healthy conversation involves two people, not just one.

Here's my advice, in this order:

Calmly and maturely asking the respective parent to have a serious discussion with you and to listen to what you have to say. Share how their actions and behaviour is making you feel, let them know you care, and make sure to mention several solutions for the issue as well. If this doesn’t work…

Bring up the subject of needing help from outside, such as the assistance of a specialist/therapist. Family counselling can shed a lot of light on toxic behaviours that are ingrained from childhood (both in their case and yours), on fears your parent may have, stress from their work, whatever is causing their outbursts and anger - because there is always a reason. Behind anger is sadness, and behind sadness is some need not being met, or an underlying fear, trauma, etc. This is not a justification for their behaviour, they are responsible for it; this is simply the fact of how energy dynamics work. People bottle up their frustrations, fears, etc, and let them out on those closest to them, to whom they feel superior. It’s not fair, and it’s not healthy, but it is frequently how this pattern works. If this solution doesn’t work either…

Then unfortunately, all you can do is focus on yourself. If they refuse to meet you anywhere along the road, you have to pack up your things and go your own way. Literally or metaphorically. They may be your parent and you may love them even in spite of their behaviour, but you cannot hold yourself responsible for anything they say or do; that is on them. In those cases, you have to prioritize your own mental health and wellbeing, and focus on moving out. If your (home) environment is toxic, you have to focus on first changing it. That’s vital. Only afterwards can you start healing, refinding yourself, reclaiming your self-esteem and confidence, your sense of worth. As long as you stay stuck in a toxic environment, you cannot really heal; if there is abuse of any kind (physical, mental, emotional), the causes are still there, leading to re-traumatizing.

If for whatever reason moving out is not (yet) an option, I would emphasize seeking some sort of counselling for yourself, if nothing else. You need an anchor, some sort of support that will help you along your path until you do get out.

Now, I don’t know how old you are. I am going to assume you are over 18 and of age, so only mind my advice if that is the case. (As disclaimer, I don't provide advice to minors as it's not the scope of my blog nor am I specialized/focused on that area.)

I understand moving out seems scary because it is unknown, but with that line of thought you may wait another 10 years in the same situation. Wouldn’t you wake up 10 years later already having done the hard work on moving out, finding your independence, claiming your sense of individuality and moving on from this sort of environment, this phase in your life?

Sooner is better than later, but do so with mindfulness and care over your mental health, of course. I know it’s scary. But being an adult requires some difficult decisions at times, and setting boundaries begins with choosing your wellbeing and doing what needs to be done, even if it is something uncomfortable short-term, but highly rewarding and beneficial long-term.

Hope this helps... and wishing you much luck, clarity, gentle guidance and comfort.✨

PS: Lately I've been receiving longer and longer letters in my inbox. As solution, I was thinking of having longer asks/letters redirected to my blog where there isn't any length limit, and readers can more comfortably browse both my tumblr and blog - and those requesting advice can share and receive a more in-depth response.

-Lumen