#the whole “play family” with strangers doesn't entail too much

[angeart]

Well now I just wanna know even more about your ocs and their story! xD Even before all the spooky stuff, Raven being placed in the middle of someone else's life and there's pressure to remember people and things he doesn't... And the watch, is that significant, what happens if Raven makes it to new years (hopefully with his sanity intact)? And what is up with this universe's Raven that just 'ah the amnesia hit him again' ?

And what did Rei do to get people that pissed at him? And but is he still trying to look out for Raven even if he acts like he's not?

-🎀

ribbon anon, you have no idea how happy these questions make me.

there's not a lot of pressure on raven to remember things he doesn't, because everyone around knows he gets these amnesia spells. it's still tough on him because he has to navigate this world anyway, and it lets people be dismissive of him. because—there's no reason to make friends with someone who's bound to forget you in a couple of weeks or months anyway, right? (it also gives a green card to be a shit. he won't remember!) (fun morality dilemmas right there.)

he's entirely lost, made to "play family" with people he doesn't know, live in an appartment that's wholly unfamiliar to him yet he's meant to call it his home, and whenever he steps outside, he has to deal with all these strangers looking at him knowingly while they don't know anything about him, actually. and on top of that there's the voices and shadows and mirror reflections...

add in him being worried about evia as she gets close to rei, because he isn't yet sure what kind of person rei is. and then later on kye telling him he needs to stay away from rei. (that they both do; him and evia. especially evia.) that raven should help them bring rei down—

except. kye's words come at a time when raven's already experienced the cracks in rei's masks. they come at a time when raven's beginning to be acutely aware that rei cares and he's hurting.

and now raven has to decide who to trust and side with, caught in the middle of it all.

... so let's talk about rei.

rei is meant to be a troublemaker, this uncaring character who only cares only about himself... and yet this caregiver role is thrust upon him, where he has to also (begrudgingly) make sure raven's okay whenever he forgets things, right? he's tired of this cycle. tired of doing the same things over and over pointlessly.

i had lots of notes on their childhood and young rei leading to how rei got to be like this, and why. but if you want to know about The Incident that so fiercely set nick against rei... well.

rei used to have a girlfriend. and they were young and stupid, and it was a little bit toxic.

ok, very toxic.

see, rei often felt like he's not paid a lot of attention, and he isn't as loved as raven is. that he has to actively take, whereas it always felt to him like raven is just given things. like he always had something to compete and fight for.

and so when he got into this relationship, he really just dug his nails into the idea that he's now wanted and needed. that this was his.

it was possessive, and controlling, and bad.

it ended on a cliffside in a tragic accident.

rei was trying to prove something. like an idiot that he was. she was trying to leave, and he was trying to insist she needed him, cornering her near the edge as they fought.

he tried to grab her, but she fell anyway.

kye and nick were witnesses, and from far away, it looked like rei pushed her.

from kye's recounting of events, it isn't clear if she survived or not. what is searing, though, is the idea that rei never got any kind of backlash from it. he never got punished. he never stopped treating people like shit, making him a ticking time bomb until it happens again. because he hasn't learned his lesson.

nick wants to teach him that lesson, by any means necessary. even if those means are equally as bad as what he thinks rei did. (to be fair, nick is also a little psycho who enjoys people's suffering and power, soo—) (it's kye who's going into this thinking they can do it right.) (it's kye who's begging raven to help them. to go against rei. to let rei feel some consequences; to teach him that people aren't toys or possessions.)

(rei knows these things.)

here's a fun little note i have on rei:

Rei’s choice to be a troublemaker (to fight, physically, with the world around him) was his way of dealing with the things inside of him. But he never wanted that little sphere of destruction to reach anyone else. He never imagined it would ever affect anyone but himself.

[necrophilemagpie]

why this whole thing has such a grip on the brain

is the oc insert because i am obsessed in putting the dragon in situations? perhaps, but frankly

it's mostly about putting the trio in situations because the canon doesnt quite have anyone who'd provide the exact flavor of sheer identity crisis

[whoops this thing is way too long]

someone that is revealed to, before all of this, to have for a very long time simply kept on living in the human world anyway despite their inhumanity is arguably a description that doesn't... add up cleanly ideologically with how Hellsing operates, does it?

Though, funnily enough, 'ordinary human' doesn't apply cleanly to even any of the actual literal human major characters of the story except for maybe the wild geese.

There is a reason Pip has to give the speech about grieving the burning city and Sir Penwood had to make his strategically important sacrifice. The Iscariots dont read like normal people enough for something like this. Integra may be a sort of messy symbol for humanity narratively but the way the actual story treats her?

She's as much an outsider to humanity as the monsters are.

Been that way since that fateful day since she was 12, depending on how you imagine she was raised, maybe has always been to a degree.

Highly doubt Integra had much of a taste of normal human society. She's clearly not even remotely friendly with the other knights. Sure, she found Penwood amusing but i highly doubt they were in any capacity close. It doesn't appear the woman even Really leaves the manor outside of her job. We see her in civilian attire Once for fucks sake and it felt very 'what are normal people clothes again' to me personally. Walter and the vampires are realistically the only real close relationships she really ever had.

Seras too, has lived through something incredibly traumatic as a child and has been given no community or support, seen as at most a nuisanse. We do not get any mention of an adoptive family or other previous life to come back too, and its a context where in real life omission alone would be very telling.

Through that she has arguably too been robbed of being 'allowed' to be truly human long before she became a vampire. She was around people, sure, public school, foster care, what have you, but I somehow doubt a girl with severe ptsd would be understood much considering the time Hellsing is set in. If you're unwell as a kid you quickly learn just how conditional the care of strangers can be. Even if on paper they're meant to take care of you. She's kept up a mask of humanity with varying success but likely had known very little warmth a human life supposedly entails.

Alucard is strongly implied to believe that his humanity was torn away from him. He openly mourns it, but feels like he's been all but thrown into the grave of undeath by being forced to protect himself, and he's since only dug it so, so much deeper that he can scarcely see the sun anymore.

The very idea of being anything besides monstrous is very ludicrous to him, and he's so very jealous, of anyone who seems to have had even the slightest bit of a choice.

He was impatient and annoyed with how long it took Seras to accept her new nature because to him. It confused him to no end why Integra would never just make it official and admit her humanity was too incomplete to keep.

monsters are one way, humans are the other.

Humans have friends and family. They have homes to come back to, take care of each other, like many other animals they play and express individuality. They love, and love in uncomplicated, unconditional ways.

Monsters are inevitably alone. There isnt really a place for them to belong, they're solitary and must learn to enjoy it. Violence is, if not enjoyable, grimly necessary to a monster. A monster's attachment to others is a laborious, painful thing.

There is a clear line. You can't be both, you can't be one but keep some traits of the other.

But that's just one way of thinking, is it?

The dragon certainly starts out fitting so very neatly into the monster box. Glassy eyes, little priorities, truly alien relationship to the self. Their illness makes them appear like something that Should be dead. The way they seem to rationalize their situation comes off arguably even less human than even Alucard does.

And that would make sense! They weren't human for hundreds upon hundreds of years, in fact they were never human at all. There are some universal human experiences like how most acessible in modernity human food tastes or childhood they are fundamentally external to.

But as time goes on, as they realize that for the first time in the last few years, they're fine to stop running on empty and rest? As they find it safe enough to speak earnestly? The line gets increasingly blurry.

They start to talk of first sensible subjects like music and prose and history, but increasingly you'd find they're not simply 'making polite civilized conversation,' no. They've known some of the histories they speak of first hand, were friends with some of the writers mentioned even. They're intimately familiar with Making music, what goes into a play, and know a surprising amount about notably dated by now music production hardware and software. There's silly stories they have on hand to share.

Community to the degree Integra likely hadn't really ever known.

They've accepted certain few as siblings, they even apparently know how to take care of a child. They are currently the primary caretaker of their mysterious """benefactor's""" child because 'the woman might've wanted the kid but doesn't much care for raising one.' They genuinely care for the kid, and not Just because its someone else hurt by the same person. They seem to have Opinions on what's good for a child that seem to come from experience. It's not their first time around.

The culture to whom the human that caused them to exist belonged to? They still identify with it. Kept track of the family even, for actual hundreds of years they've been the distant relative that visits sometimes.

They seem to earnestly love the people they speak of and miss those no longer alive or who've they been unable to reach for the past nine years, which is most of them.

Family in a way Seras struggles to even imagine having.

Their illness, though something specific to nonhumans, is suddenly rather easy to recontextualize as a collection of individual rather human symptoms. Integra even has similar complaints about her joints. Their sometimes stilted speech isn't hard to accept as a mixture of something like neurodivergence and having modern english be about 5th language they learned. Humans do plenty of these same things with gender and sexuality too, thats nothing too special.

Even their suffering under the control of the woman in red, if you pay closer attention... starts looking a good bit more like plain old domestic abuse.

Yet they're very obviously Not a human, they say as much too.

The way they grieve is from a different angle, from one colored by hundreds of years of losing people, unable to forget even one. The way they love is similar, encasing every moment in amber of their eerily clear memory. They know too much historical context for every aspect of society to take much seriously, looking right for the outsiders of it for something truly interesting.

For fuck's sake, it's barely even blood what courses through their veins, even their internal anatomy is a touch off.

Somehow though, they lack Alucard's characteristic violent self hatred about it. Even in their current situation, having the very 'justification' for their abuse be that they're not human, they are very firm in the fact that being a dragon IS a cornerstone of their identity, that its not something that can be removed or altered, they wouldn't particularly want to be a human, and they're not worse off for it, they just Are who they are.

At peace with their belonging outside of humanity. Something Alucard swore to never be as much as complacent with.

They dont come in trying to challenge anything particularly, they just happen to be the kind of person the trio's worldview hadn't truly been tested against.

If any luck, maybe it'd get them to give some much needed attention to their own traits that have never quite fit the ideology either.

You know.

The real reason Integra had long known she wants Hellsing to cease to exist, at least in the way it does now.

Besides, it's kind of pointless rummaging through the shadows searching for boogeymen when monstrous humans are just as real.

"the woman in red" as the dragon calls her, may just be one.

[blackasmidnightcats]

Continued discussion about Sophie's "redemption arc"

Original post from @agathasarmy

@agathasarmy I've moved this to a new post cause I have a lot of feelings and still want to continue this discussion and I hope you don't mind

So anyways...

(this wouldve been also a great way to introduce the concept of legacies, especially with the past vs. present. vs. future theme and it would also parallel tedros’ storyline as they’re both dealing with the fallout of carrying their predecessor’s glory)

YESSSS

All of them have big shoes to fill because of the people who've nurtured and believed in them

One thing I really hated in the camelot years was the lack of mourning that Agatha and Sophie did for Callis and Lady Lesso respectively.

That is the kind of anguish that I was looking for. Just them being children and missing their parent/parental figure and wishing that they could still be someone's child who could look out for them and motivate them when they needed.

Like Sophie remembering that Lady Lesso believed in her the way that Sophie could never do and Agatha remembering how her mother would have wanted her daughter to live out her life with with love and adventure.

Let's not even get with Tedros (that's a whole other meta in itself)

so far all i got was lesso and hester being the best examples of it, but what i also got from them was that Evil wasnt being cruel but serving as the balance to Good like ok???? what exactly does that entail??

Exactly, I'm really frustrated about this because as much as Soman has tried to make us understand that Good and Evil are equals, he has never actually shown us how equal they can be since all the Evil figures that we have are usually helping Good.

I'm really pissed that the Coven's quest involve them finding a new School Master when they have absolutely no need to do that. They should be doing their own stuff instead. It's the one thing I shame Prof Dovey for.

that was what I expected the series would be: Tedros and Agatha as Good because Good always stands stronger together, and Sophie as Evil because Evil is best alone, but not lonely

I stand behind your point about "Alone but not Lonely" quote because if that does not describe Sophie's biggest problem than I don't know what does. She can have all the fans that she wants and build the whole School for Evil in her tribute and pretend that she's a strong independent woman who doesn't need a man but she'll still feel the loneliness seep through if she doesn't have a closure with her insecurities and envy

instead Soman subverted our expectations in the worst way possible since GoT S8 (dont @ me)

I will stand by you with the hate for GoT s8. That was a trainwreck so badly done it imploded on itself. Recently, writers that have big productions have been having a hard time gracefully ending their stories

EXACTLY I JUST KNOW SOMAN’S GONNA BRUSH IT OFF OR BARELY MENTION IT WHEN THIS KIND OF DIALOGUE IS MORE IMPORTANT TO THE MESSAGE OF THE STORY THAN SOMAN RANDOMLY INSERTING DOVEY AS TEDROS’ GODMOTHER OR REAPER BEING KING FOR PLOT CONVENIENCE

I KNOW HOW YOU FEEL. I WILL NOT STOP BEING SO FREAKING BITTER ABOUT IT.

Soman was off with a good start on that one. I would have been more interested with Sophie trying to handle her narcissistic desires vs her need to actually be a decent Dean to all the new students just like how Lady Lesso was for her. Her understanding how to be Evil and be herself would have been a nice read.

if soman had to bring back a trope from the last era, it would be the discussion of dichotomies i.e. Good vs. Evil, instead of the evil lover trope cos aint nobody got the time for that

YESSS

It's still technically the school for GOOD AND EVIL SERIES even if we go to a new era I was hoping that Soman would still have these as the roots but NOOOO.

His obsession with Sophie obsessing over boys that obsess over her is a strong one apparently.

like at this point it’ just really blatantly obvious how much Soman favors Sophie and I wouldnt be that bothered if he didnt sacrifice the plot or the other characters’ brain cells to go along with it cos to this day I refuse to believe that people really would just accept Rhian like that after reading The Tale of Sophie and Agatha

EXCATLY. I HONESTLY COULD NOT UNDERSTAND SOME OF THE DECISIONS OF THE OTHER CHARACTERS ABOUT THIS.

Like did no one still understand that not everything is what it seems?!

I am baffled with how easy they trusted a comeplete stranger over Agatha who has proven over and over and over again that she fights for the good of EVERYONE and is perfecrly willing to sacrifice her happiness for theirs.

Like at this point I'm thinking that her fairy tale propably does not do justice for everything that she's been through cause if the other people of the Woods read her story the way we did, there would be no doubt that we would stand behind Agatha for a lifetime

like cmon people we went through this already?? a random hot stranger coming out of nowhere??? ITS THE RED FLAG

In defense with them, (and I am saying this very, very off handedly) Rhian did come around saving everyone's asses and was a pretty decent guy (NOT).

WHAT I AM REALLY SURPISED ABOUT IS THAT THEY WANT A PIECE OF HIM AND HOW EASILY THEY TRUSTED HIM WITH EVERYTHING

I THOUGHT THE POINT OF THIS SERIES WAS TO SHOW THAT ROMANCE WASN’T THE ONLY HIGHEST MANIFESTATION OF LOVE, BUT A LOVE BETWEEN FAMILY OR A LOVE FOR ONE’S SELF WAS JUST AS IMPORTANT????

One of my biggest beefs with Soman's writing. He highlights romance too much compared to platonic and self love. I want a moment with Sophie like the one in TLEA where Agatha was getting stressed about letting Sophie and Tedros grow closer and Soman managed to pretty realistically portray that; Agatha was being insecure and possessive and jealous but she let herself reflect on her actions. She made peace with it and faced it with bravery even though it really hurts her. Because she understood that she would never have closure for this if she didn't let it happen.

AGGIE IS THE BEST. I LOVE HER

Why the hell can't Soman write something similar like this for Sophie.

WHY SOMAN PUTTING THIS AMATONORMATIVE BS IN THIS STORY AGAIN LIKE WE ARE TIRED

In fairness, Sophie getting into ANOTHER romantic relationship I will PASS SO HARD.

But for everyone else that deserves some romantic love (TAGATHA PLS) I will accept crawling

also I like your ideas on what could’ve happened instead, with Rhian being more proactive towards Tedros and Agatha instead of Sophie - it would play well into the Camelot myths and themes that I was really expecting in the new era

I KNOW RIGHT?!?!?!

If Soman could only just get over his Sophie Obsession, then he would understand that Tedros was the perfect target for Rhian's manipulations and Sophie was the perfect target for the downfall.

I have no idea how the hell did Rhian think (but apparently it worked because soman plot) that seducing Sophie would win him the love of the Woods.

plus it wouldve been a chance for Sophie to actively help them instead of tearing them apart like in the last 3 books?? like she’s kinda doing that rn but it would’ve been nice if she didn’t have a hand in stealing their happiness like she’s always done too

Well...for me she doesn't seem like she's tearing them apart anymore but I stand with your point about her stealing their happiness.

This could have been good, good character development for her. Her realizing that she keeps making tagatha miserable and stealing what belongs to them and the complexity that comes with her inner struggle between her envy vs love for her best friends.

PLUS CHADDICK DESERVED TO LIVE INSTEAD OF BEING KILLED FOR PLOT CONVENIENCE LITERALLY IT’S THE WORST DEATH IN THE SERIES NOT COS IT’S SAD BUT COS IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE AND MAKES FOR TERRIBLE WRITING IMHO

"NOT COS IT'S SAD BUT BECAUSE IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE"

SCREAM IT A BIT LOUDER SO SOMAN CAN HEAR IT AT THE BACK!!!!

Soman, I will never forgive you for doing this to this boy.

You could have made Tedros and Chaddick have a falling out. I mean the last time that they interacted was during AWWP and Chaddick treated Tedros as crap. I know that all of us headcanon that these two are each other's best mates but they've barely had significant interactions for me to consider that a case.

They'd be so pressured about not followong the legacy of Arthur and Lance that a small problem could propably tear these two apart.

also, on another point, you would think Sophie would be more sympathetic to Tedros situation given that they’re both leading populations, essentially

plus Sophie learned to understand Tedros’ mind better in awwp??? where the hell did that relationship development went (even if she was Filip at the time)??

I am honestly more suprised at how viciously Tedros seems to treat her.

Like it wasn't that long after TLEA that Tedros was perfectly willing to let Sophie stay in Camelot and even asked her to visit but come his coronation (which was like less than a day after) he keeps on proclaiming about how happy he is with her out his life and in aCoT his distrust for her was off the roof.

Then there is the Handbook ordeal with Sophie just completely roasting Tedros like what happend to the two of you?

I don't even understand Soman's decision about this. It doesn't even affect the actual storyline in anyway. It's just Sophie and Tedros at each other's throats.

Tedros has been treated the crappiest out of the main trio (let’s be honest) as if the game was built to oppose him, meanwhile Sophie gets major Soman privilege and is given the role ONCE AGAIN that could change the game

THIS

It's the reason why I can't even read AWWP anymore. It hurts too much to have to read at how badly the other characters treat him. Just reading the first line of that book gets me anxious.

And PREACH THAT SOPHIE HAS MAJOR SOMAN PRIVILEGES.

This is why I was actually suprised that Soman shared that he planned on killing Sophie off at the end of TLEA but we'll never how that story went

like if the School Years was for Sophie to realize and accept her Evilness, couldnt Soman have decided to give Tedros and Agatha the deciding roles this time around given that, you know, it’s called the CAMELOT YEARS ERA???

Honestly, I just want Tedros to have the most agency out of all the characters. Like make his decisions actually matter to the plot. Make him the center of the plot and revolve Rhian's plans around him instead of being against him cause that's exactly how Agatha's role in the school years era was for Rafal.

The basic formula goes like this;

Sophie important to the Rafal's/Rhian's/Japeth's/hell even Evelyn Sader's plan

Agatha/Tedros are in the way of that plan so they have to go

Agatha/Tedros saves Sophie's ass

Sophie making the big decision

Like didn't Soman say that he didn't want to be that repetitive writer? That's why he changed the ending of AWWP because it was too similar to the first book?

WTF SOMAN?

she’s still out here wanting someone to look at her the tedros looks at agatha (honestly big mood right there) but I wish this didn’t have to be her main conflict

This is actually why I'm not that mad that Sophie fell for Rhian. Because at the end of the day Sophie will be Sophie.

But I agree I kinda hoped that she wouldn't be as guilible

the girl is smart and knows her worth so I can’t really understand why she decided to get ENGAGED to the next person (Hort obviously cant count cos plot) who tells her she looks pretty???

NOW THIS. THIS IS MY BEEF WITH SOPHIE.

I can understand why she'd date him but MARRIAGE?! That was going a little bit too far.

You'd think after her engagement with Rafal that she'd be TRAUMATIZE for the next one.

And honestly it would have been hella funny if she did feel this way. Imagine Rhian nearly getting all that he needed but Sophie just straight up leaves him on the stage cause she's still got issues with it.

Would have been my favorite scene

And Hort, poor boy, he needs character development of his own. I'm not his fan honestly and currently, he's not winning me over.

ALSO THE FACT THAT SHE ENDS UP BEING CONSIDERED FOR THE ROLE OF QUEEN OF CAMELOT INFURIATES ME SO MUCH COS WE WENT THROUGH THAT SHIT IN TLEA???? WHY ARE WE BRINGING THIS UP AGAIN????

THIS. THIS IS MY BEEF WITH SOMAN

Can he not understand that she would be crap as QUEEN?

A parallel I noticed with Rhian and Sophie is that they both completely remodeled their respective castles in their image. Not even considering anyone else. And they both treat their faculty as crap.

Kinda tells us that she really would be crap as queen.

At least the Camelot citizens had enough braincells not to fall for this crap

Every other kingdom in the Woods though. They better be budgeting gold to Tedros and Agatha once they're back on the throne.

(and im so so tired of Sophie stealing Agatha’s Ever After from her, indirectly or not, like cant she just be happy for her best friend and move the plot in some way other than this???)

I really do believe envy is only one of the things that Sophie needs to sort out. The fact that she admitted at the end of TLEA that she does, in fact, feel envious that Agatha gets to be a queen and her little episode in the Ever Never Roundtable about how she's the one with the official title of queen and that Agatha isn't even a princess says a lot.

I wouldn't have minded if Sophie had a slight blackout and just lost it and saying mean things about Agatha but instantly regreting it because no matter what, deep down in the foundations of her soul, she loves Agatha with everything that she has. And is she has the be in a constant battle with herself about this fact then she's willing to keep on fighting. That would have been satisfying to read.

I mean just imagine if Sophie was there when Agatha was leading her army and Hester mentions that Agatha is Queen in the School, in Camelot, or anywhere elsse in the Woods. They would follow her. Willingly.

Sophie would have had a panic attack.

This girl needs to learn that she can't force people to be loyal and follow her by making every physical reminder of how amazing she is but instead she needs to lead and make some sacrifices of her own because she's doing these sacrifices in the benefit of Evil and its future instead of herself.

Sophie appreciating people?? Not only remembering them when she needs something from them??? Like @ soman im not asking her to be the next Mother Theresa but I’ll take this character development pls and thank u

I am all in for Sophie appreciating everyone. If she can't do it for other people, then she better do it for Evil.