#the fact most shows hit 100 episodes in 5 seasons before streaming and now you're lucky if you get 50 episodes with 5 seasons

[clarasoswinsoswald]

I love you shows with 50+ episodes, I love you shows with filler episodes, I love you shows that aired over 5 years+, I love you shows that weren't unexpectedly cancelled after one season because they didn't reach an unattainable goal, I love you prestreaming shows

[kingofthewilderwest]

Given what you said don't ignore this from the following sentence as it wont spoil or give any ruin to anything. I finished S3 of Amphibia within the last week and going back over the series and other series I just see a lot of writers not being able to commit to longer or more in depth series. Seems like the best series are the ones that KNOW they wont be longer than 3-4 seasons. I havent been too close to many TV shows but all shows nowadays are either limited or being canceled before they do anything worthwhile

From this.

I think it's fascinating you brought that up. I was talking with a friend this week about the trend of children's animation increasingly making long-term narrative arcs, and how there seems to be less focus on episodic children's animation.

I'm going to get rambly, veer all over the place, but more or less stay prompted by what you brought up.

It makes sense we've seen a renaissance of long-term plot forms. Streaming and binge culture allows people to reliably follow a story and see every episode, right? And so we've gotten Gravity Falls, She-Ra, Amphibia, The Owl House (at least from the few episodes I've seen), you name it. Since it's a recent phenomenon that we can safely tell long-term arcs, creators will dive into the new opportunity. I think that in most animation, we're going to see them veering there because They Can Now.

I celebrate the longer plot arcs. It's made beautiful art. And it's unlike periods that came before! At the same time, I hope the pendulum will eventually swing into the center. Once the newness of long-term structure fades, maybe we'll get more balanced numbers between shows that are one form versus the other, each show picking what is best for it.

And going to what you said about long-arc execution... writers have to know they will be able to finish it, right? And with the way Western media still cancels or renews its shows... Western media can't as safely create long-term media. Which means you're limited to:

Writing plots that have the length of an episode

Writing plots that have the length of a season, max

Writing long-term narratives with a specific several season goal, and hope you'll get renewed

Writing long-term narratives, but do so within a safe contract bet (that "they KNOW / are reasonably confident it won't be longer than 3-4 seasons)

Having an "oh, we'll just write, and figure out making that ending when cancellation starts threatening us" (terrible idea)

I think good writing, structure-wise, usually knows how long it's going, because you can't have good, incremental plot scaffolding without knowing your duration. If you're doing #3, you have your scaffolding prepared, but you could get cancelled before your structuring pays off. I see #5 happen more with live action adult media, and that's often a hit and miss, because you are forced, by the uncertain world of potential cancellation or unrenewed contracts, to adlib.

Getting back to Amphibia, even without me knowing what their contract situation was, I can tell they were operating on #3 or #4. Which means it's going to work better structurally.

I think it's fascinating. While I was writing my thoughts last night about Amphibia's structure, I knew that I could write an incredibly robust post about all the ways their scaffolding works. How they successfully implemented it. Because it's very structurally sound and there's tons there. The fact I was writing, from an emotional perspective, about whether I liked it... was going in the face of everything I logically saw working.

It's hard to pinpoint and/or vocalize, studying the well-implemented structural side, why my emotions weren't 100% sold with what I got S2. I can say things like, "It feels like Hop Pop, Sprig, and Polly aren't as integrally tied to the long-term narrative as they should be, given the centrality of family messages in S1," but I can also point to plot events like Hop Pop burying the box that were intended to be central to the long-term whatnot. I still think I'm right. I still think they're not as central, because long-term it is about King Andreas and Marcy and Sasha and Anne and stuff... and what does a farming frog contribute to toads trying to dominate the land?

But in the end, my post wasn't even intending to be structural. My post wasn't intended to say "this is working well or not." Because it is working well? It's just processing, from a purely emotional perspective, that my emotions were weird. It'll be interesting, as I watch S3, whether or not my emotions will or won't align with the structural implementation.

Obviously, you, as someone who's seen S3, will know how that structure plays out. And you will know whether the structure was good. I appreciate you respecting my request to have no hints, even in the slightest, of how S3 goes down, even in vibe. Maybe I'll poke you again about structure when I have completed S3 (probably pretty soon), and talk about that phenomenon you brought up.

I do want more shows that are episodic again. That's a way to escape non-commitment to longer plot arcs, being limited, or being cancelled before going anywhere.

I don't know if I tackled anything you were thinking about, since I went all over the place. But I enjoyed your thoughts. It's cool to reflect on.