#the culmination of events that happened to end in this incredible climax which isn't a climax

[tbartss]

how do i explain this in a way that sounds coherent. vote1 is my favorite moment, its the most iconic moment but vote2 is more IMPORTANT. it's less emotional, it's more messy, it's more intimate. it's the culmination of everything they've been through, it's the expression of their importance to each other, it's NECESSARY. it was always going to come to vote2 not because its a parallel but because that's how this shit ENDS. it ends with them crying screaming kicking throwing punches until they both run out of energy and end up just lying there and talking because there's no excuse not to anymore. It's more personal. Do you realize this is the first time they had a heart to heart?? do you??? the first time they have a heart to heart and Naruto confesses his love to Sasuke and Sasuke cries because he finally understands that Love isn't something to run from its something to run TO and literally nothing else matters and that's why they just lie there together in the quiet covered in blood instead of saving the world because its NOT about the plot at that moment, its NOT about the world or Kaguya or whatever the fuck its about THEM. its always about them..... head in hands i need to lie down

[peachymess]

Hey Peach! About the Armin sacrifice ask, you have to remember that Armin doesn't remember the events of sacrificing his life and dreams for Eren and the others to defeat Bertohld. So if he had to be told he ate Bertohld to survive injuries he didn't remeber enduring, how can he remember his sacrifice/ thought process? This isn't me fussing, just trying to give you a different pov and possibly Isyama's thought process. :) - an old mutual who's been silently watching ❤

Hi, old mutual! ❤️

That’s a good point. Though I would argue it’s not good enough to justify having Armin go through the same lesson twice. See, Armin is aware that he made the sacrifice (through being told). It’s not as though it didn’t happen. It did. And I’m sure he’s been made clear on the details so he’s understood what he did. He knows he chose to throw away something to change something. He knows he did the thing. But that’s only one side of the coin. The other is the audience. We saw him make the sacrifice. This is a construction made for our consumption.

Granted, in real life, people don’t learn and grow after every L or W taken. People make the same mistakes over and over and sometimes they never learn. Just like they can fail to see what earned them a win, thus failing to repeat it.

However, like I said, this is fiction. It needs to be a bit more polished. What I have an issue with isn’t so much realistic psychology as it is the writing here. From early on in the manga - almost since the start - Armin began dropping heavy forshadowing about this “big sacrifice”. He talked about the philosophy of becoming a monster to defeat monsters, being able to throw away things important to you in order to change the world, etc. He pointed to people who mastered it and kept asking himself what to throw away. Several times he even offered to give up his life prematurely (in the battle for Trost, for instance). But we as readers could tell that at those times, it was misguided. That he wasn’t ready. He wasn’t giving up his life in order to move mountains; he saw himself as a burden, disposable, in the way. He wanted to find a way to remove himself while also making it count for something. “The sooner I die, the sooner Mikasa has an excuse to take over my gas and blades, and the sooner she can save more people. Ergo, me dying saves lives. Ergo me being alive is an obstruction of the betterment of mankind as a whole.”

For the time being, he hadn’t overcome what was in the way, in order to learn the lesson he was set up for. The way it was being built up, we knew a big sacrifice was on the horizon, but he wasn’t ready to make it yet. His character development was focused around him realizing his worth first. Only then could he take action with a clear and strong mind.

When that moment finally came in 82, the arc was building up to it, the death flags were there. We saw him stronger, yet fumbling - like a flawed hero - to remain standing strong in the face of his biggest test. After all these arcs, all that he had foreshadowed, talked about, grown towards - plus his trust based relationship with Eren - it all culminated in Armin using his skills of intellect/manipulation/resolve and strength, to go through with this massive sacrifice that moved the mountains and gave humanity that impossible win.

... it seems incredibly awkward to then roll back that resolution, to nullify that development, to rehash that lesson when the climax of it had already happened. The theme of making that big sacrifice was already built up and it already culminated in a big plot point/story beat. Doing it a second time, without any more organic build up than to ride off the back of the old resolved foreshadowing/character development, feels... repetitive and stagnant. How many times does Armin have to sacrifice until he “gets it”, then? If the next sacrifice is, let’s say, sacrificing Eren - does he learn it then and not the first time? If so, that would render the first massive sacrifice without effect character development-wise. That’s a lot of story focus for very little payoff.

Or is the point that Armin has to just... keep throwing away everything that matters to him? If so, Isayama needs to start beginning to plant more explicit seeds that what Armin needs to learn is that “I was wrong about throwing away something to changne something; the truth is any advance needs a sacrifice and in order to keep advancing, one needs to keep shedding the things you care about.”

What I’m trying to say is that the memory thing is one way to explain what we’re seeing here, but it’s just not... strong enough, craftsmanship-wise. Not strong enough to be a good excuse for why we should strip the first sacrifice of the weight it should hold. It was built up over several arcs. He had to grow as a character to get to the point. He used his “would I ever lie to you” card on Eren, a first time breach of their trust bond - something that has its effect in the fact that it’s a first (no “second lie” is as hard hitting as the first one). All so that he could still not have fulfilled that looming “sacrifice”? Isayama now rehashing Armin’s old mantra of what to sacrifice fees so hollow. We already had the answer. He gave his life and singlehabdedly changed the course of the entire story. Such a complex manga and at one point, his sacrifice/death was the SINGLE one thing the story was focused on. For what? How could that not be the defining moment? How could he not grow from that? What lesson can possibly be better established and hard hitting enough to justify getting through to him more than 82? No second sacrifice will have the same weight. Especially not when it’s leaning on the buildup he already used for 82. Either this new sacrifice is the “true/final” outcome of the pre-82 build up (which makes that 82-climax empty and undermined) and he will struggle to top the fake climax of the return arc, OR he means to build a new sacrifice plot point without much justifiable buildup. Either way, he’d be so much better served by making Armin approach this from a changed perspective.

Now, I’m not saying one sacrifice is/should be enough to fix everything. And at this point, possibly giving up Eren is a very relevant topic to have to reflect on. But it would have been so much better if Armin could approach it from a changed/developed perspective. If he could pull a lesson from 82, to bring something new. He’d appear to have grown more as a character since those four (?) years ago, plus it wouldn’t feel like a rehash of something we’ve already seen. All in all, I’m just not a big fan of 82 not culminating in anything character-wise. Has he seriously not reflected on it or grown at all since back then, on this topic? I find that hard to believe. And I find it very dissatisfying as an Armin fan to see Isayama put focus back on this demand for Armin to sacrifice, as though what he already gave wasn’t heavy enough already. Because now that he’s put it out there, he’s got to go through with it. It’s the law of the Chekhovian gun; if you mention a gun hanging on the wall in the first act, it has to be fired within act three. If Isayama makes Armin harp on about making sacrifices at the start of the final arc, a sacrifice has to be made within the end of the story. And I don’t think that’s fair, nor good writing, because it’s already been done.

I’m coming from the POV of a concerned parent. I love Armin like a son, and I frankly just don’t want him to have to sacrifice anymore. But as a writer, I feel like I have genuine reason to justify my dismay. That being said, it is what it is and whatever happens, happens. I have no say in it. Maybe Isayama turns around and throws us a curveball in regards to this. It just doesn’t seem likely. And I think - and this is my own opinion, not fact - that Isayama more likely just feel like this is Armin’s trope/base note at this point, rather than doing the detailed analyze of “memory loss would get in the way of this lesson”. Even though that analysis is a valid, realistic take. I think you thought more thoroughly about this than he did, to be honest.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me. We might be seeing things differently, but I love a good conversation and it felt good to get this off my chest. And at the end of the day, Armin doesn’t need the further development to feel real and well developed to me. I’d love to see him have a new take on the whole sacrifice business, but I’ll settle for seeing him survive and thrive at the end of this (Isayama, I’m looking at you). Let’s cross our fingers, friend ❤️ And thanks for checking in on me! I hope you’re good!

[tbartss]

do you guys understand the implications.... the thematics.... the immaculate execution.... of Valley of the End 2?? do you guys understand. what it was all for? What its all about? eating brigskjs....