#that it's genuinely hard to tell what bits are Church of England bs and which is pre-Christian interpretation of canon

[hussyknee]

@mental-mona what does vegetarianism have to do with animism? Indigenous people and other Eastern communities have been living off the land in various ways while worshipping it as it's own entity all this time.

Sorry, it just rubs me very wrong when people pull current Western discourse and fads into our (non-white) worldviews and ways of life. In the Indian subcontinent, the central conflict between Abrahamic religions and other belief systems is seeing humans as part of nature vs. seeing humans as apart from it. Vegetarianism is a variation of this belief system that emerged in the parts where the environment was conducive to such a diet. Others in different climates, especially indigenous ones, situate themselves in natural networks in far different ways.

One of the most disturbing things I encountered in my journey of converting to Judaism was this podcast where Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sacks made the case that what originally set Judaism apart from “pagan” belief systems at the time of its development was that it “de-sacralized nature”. Monotheism killed animism, in his view, so rather than being something alive and divine, “nature” became an essentially lifeless thing that humans can use. We have a responsibility to care for nature, but only because G-d gave it to us, not because of any intrinsic value in it.

Sacks wasn’t the first person to argue this idea— it’s popular enough among a certain crowd of antisemites— but what was so disturbing for me was Sacks’ unalloyed enthusiasm about this. “De-sacralizing nature” was a good thing in his view, because it made the modern world possible and allowed humanity to “rise above mere animal existence” or some shit. It still bothers me that he drew such a radically different conclusion from our tradition. My experience with Judaism has made me infinitely more sensitive to the rhythms of the natural world and my place in it. The idea that all of nature is alive and joins us in praising G-d is everywhere in our liturgy. The sacredness of the world used to be an abstraction to me, and Judaism taught me to feel it like my own pulse.

as someone raised Christian i'm probably highly ignorant to the differences between Christianity and Judaism apart from, yknow, the Jesus thing, but "monotheism= nature is a created Thing" seems to lead people to a variety of wildly different takes.

like, American Evangelicals are mostly the far extreme of this where the earth is a temporary and ultimately disposable thing, and ultimately doesn't matter because it's Heaven that matters, and "environmentalism" is equivalent to denying the faith. It's Bad.

I just wonder, where does the difference come in? between "God created this creature and therefore we should treat it as sacred because it's his thoughtful handiwork" and "God created this creature so we can do what we want with it"? What other ideas make people go down one path or another?