#stark sisters and dany

[fromtheseventhhell]

Arya and Dany stans: *discuss the likelihood that they'll have a positive relationship given their parallels, foreshadowing, status as key characters, and being two of George's favorite characters*

Stansas: Is this Sansa shade?

I think it's hilarious that Stansas got mad at me for (accurately) pointing out that they accuse Arya and Dany stans of being motivated by Sansa hate simply because...we get along and like both of them lol. The idea of them getting along is about their characters and has nothing to do with Sansa. Just because they pit Dany and Arya against each other for Sansa's sake doesn't mean we're motivated by the same thing. Are there some conversations that bring up Sansa + Arya's strained relationship? Absolutely, that isn't baseless in the books considering they're written as foils and George has already said they have issues they need to work out. The "Stark sisters 4ever" fantasy they have is just that, and it's funny we never see this same energy for Arya being turned into a prop for her sister 🤔. Sisterhood didn't stop Sansa from siding with Joffrey, telling Cersei that Arya was a traitor (even though she had no idea where Arya was), or calling Arya unsatisfactory when she thought that she was dead so why are we supposed to pretend it's an all-important factor when discussing Arya's potential relationships with other characters?

[throwawayasoiafaccount]

god tywin lannister deserved worse

just remembering elias death and i wanna puke and the way tywin talks about elia and what happened is so damn gross

but rip tommen and myrcella we all know what’s about to happen in the next book :/

the cycle of violence just keeps spinning and damn you tywin for beginning it

(i got a bit crazy in the tags 💀)

[yayawantstodraw]

Every time someone tries to compliment the stark girls there always going to be an annoying ant putting them against each other in the comments, y'all do realize you got beef with characters that would literally be in middle school? You have beef with middle schoolers

[gameofthronedd]

I will never understand the Sansa vs Arya debate/discourse that happens every so often. Why must the fandom constantly put female characters at odd with one another, even within their own family, to an insane degree? 😮‍💨

[eiderdown-quill]

I don't understand why the fandom is fighting over these three middleschool aged girls. half the time the arguments are over which of these three preteens will end up with jon snow? lame. none of them are perfect paragons and none of them are evil, they're just the products of their circumstances holding on to whats left of themselves.

[amaltheas-garden]

What's fun about the succession crises in ASOIAF is that grrm really tries to present a murky narrative of who is in the right for pressing their claim, which makes it fun knowing that most sides have at least some bit of evidence to support them, regardless of how we feel about the characters. Stannis, despite being viewing Rhaenyra as a traitor, names his only daughter heir, though for the same reasons the Greens saw Aegon as legitimate. Sons before daughters, daughters before uncles, bastards cannot inherit. Ned Stark, despite being loyal to a fault with Robert, went against his deathbed wish to see his "son" Joffrey inherit, and instead falls back on law and tradition, throwing his support behind Stannis. Renly decides that if Robert can win the throne through conquest, then why can't he? He'll worry about legitimizing his reign after he takes the throne. When Robert's Rebellion ended, maesters spoke about the connection between Houses Targaryen and Baratheon, Robert's Targ blood (I believe from his grandmother), though none of it really mattered in the end, with every Targ save 3 dead and far far away from the throne. Cersei is committing treason by placing bastards on the throne, though even for her it could be argued it was Ned's fault the Joff v Stannis v Renly conflict broke out to begin with when he revealed Joffrey's true parentage. Placing bastards above trueborn heirs breaks the strenuous social contract of sorts that maintains some modicum of peace amongst members of the ruling class. But then Joffrey goes and cuts Ned's head off--> definitely a poor move, resulting in Robb's rise as an independent King, echoing the start of Robert's Rebellion. And in Dorne, Arianne admonishes Criston Cole for usurping Rhaenyra in favor of her younger brother, though this only holds up legally based on Dornish law, when Dorne wasn't even a part of the 7K. Though Arianne views Rhaenyra's claim as stronger, she herself almost become a Criston Cole 'Queenmaker' figure, looking to crown King Tommen's elder sister *cough* pitting brother against sister *cough* Myrcella, in the hopes of provoking a war of succession amongst the Lannisters. And now with Aegon VI and Dany, both will have to claim Westeros through conquest, though both still fall back on the idea of being Rhaegar's rightful heirs, and the Baratheon dynasty as illegitimate usurpers. How the rest of Westeros will view their claims remains to be seen...

The point is, succession in ASOIAF is meant to be muddled and confusing and not clear cut. It's what makes the story juicy and HOTD just completely failed to deliver on those dynamics. Alicent seems to have crowned Aegon by mistake, the rest of the Green council are mustache twirling villains, the Andal law argument is never brought up, and Rhaenyra is consistently framed as not only the rightful heir, but a divinely ordained one. A Queen who must rule because she has a "higher purpose" in doing so than simple desire for power. Yawn.

[bumblesimagines]

The Cold Stars

Request: Yes or No

Summary: Daenerys encounters a lonesome stranger in Meereen who shares a bitter history with Ser Barriston

Pronouns: He/Him/His

TW/CW: Suicide mention

~~~

"I cannot hide behind walls forever, Ser Barriston," Dany spoke gently, dragging her eyes over the small marketplace in the city. She knew the dangers of being out in public but she had trust in Ser Barriston and Grey Worm, her loyal subordinates. They'd never allow harm to come to her, she knew that very well. Besides, she needed to show the people of Meereen that she cared and valued them. Trust had to be earned, not given freely. So, despite the worries expressed to her by Ser Barriston and Daario, she marched forth into the marketplace, eager to see what her people were selling. 

"I know, Your Grace," Ser Barriston sighed quietly, his eyes just as diligent and alert as Grey Worm's, bouncing around from cart to face in search of anyone with less-than-innocent motives. Most of the people watched them silently, the caution on their faces making Dany frown. She needed their loyalty, not their fear. She couldn't comprehend it well. She freed them from their masters, breaking the chains that made them slaves and they'd seemingly loved her for it. But the hesitation and unhappiness on some of their faces made her heart twist. 

"Do you think King's Landing will receive me like this?" Dany asked the older, more experienced man as they rounded a corner, slipping out of the market into an alleyway, her head angled over her shoulder to peer back at the two. Ser Barriston's lips parted to respond but his eyes flickered away and Dany noticed Grey Worm reaching for his sword. Her head snapped forward, preparing herself for the worst only to notice the young man leaning against the wall with an apple in hand, his eyes-

His eyes...

Cold and displeased and undeniably violet. Her mind flickered back to Viserys, to the mentions of her parents and Rhaegar, to all the portraits she'd seen of her ancestors and all the stories told about them. She felt as if the air had been knocked out of her, and she suddenly yearned for her family, for the mother that died moments after having her, and the father that earned the title of Mad King. For Rhaegar and even cruel Viserys. But the man before them lacked the notable silver hair and appeared more... Dornish.

"(Y/N) Dayne," Ser Barriston gaped, eyes large and pale skin as if he'd seen a ghost. "You... are a long ways from home, child."

"As are you, Selmy." His bitter voice seemed to jolt Ser Barriston, his mouth clamping shut and bushy brows knitting together. (Y/N) raised the apple to his lips and dug his teeth into the crunchy fruit, a trickle of juice dripping down his chin. He chewed slowly as he studied each of them, his hardened gaze only momentarily growing indifferent when he turned his attention to the perplexed Grey Worm. "You are far from King's Landing, Ser. As are you, Targaryen."

"You are in the presence of Queen Daenerys Stormborn, child, you will refer to her as such. Your brother fought fiercely for the Targaryens during the rebellion."

"And he died." (Y/N) licked his lips, the apple beginning to crack and drip with juices under his grasp. The bitterness, near hatred in his eyes sent a chill down Dany's spine, yet she found herself unable to tear her own eyes away from his face. "You claim to have loved and respected Arthur and Ashara but where were you when they died? Where were you when Stark slaughtered my brother and my sister threw herself into the sea?" 

"I would've given my life for either of them, you know that." Ser Barriston responded sharply, almost bristling at the silent accusation. 

"You would've given your life for the Prince." Her trance broke immediately at the mention of her brother, of the man Ser Barriston always recalled fondly. Her lips pulled back into a deep frown and (Y/N) turned his attention onto her. "You should've been willing to give your life for Elia and her children. That Targaryen-" The sneer when he spoke said plenty of his opinions on her family. "-abandoned them to die like a coward."

"Mind your tongue!" 

"My siblings are dead because of him!" (Y/N) snapped back at the knight, the apple finally breaking under his hold, different parts flying around while some of it turned to mush in his palm. Dany flinched and stepped back, one piece sliding right up to her feet and almost disappearing beneath the skirt of her dress. (Y/N) shook his hand and scoffed, pushing himself off the wall and barely sparing Grey Worm a glance when he stepped in front of Dany defensively. Ser Barriston's shoulders sagged, the fury dying immediately. "If he'd done his duty as a husband, Allryia, Aran, and I wouldn't be mourning them, Ser."

Dany raised her hand and placed it over Grey Worm's shoulder, meeting his questioning gaze with a reassuring nod. He stepped aside, allowing Dany to step forward, her shoe kicking aside the apple piece before she lifted her head to look at him once more. "Why have you come here, Lord (Y/N)? If not to ally yourself with me, why?"

"To see if the rumors were true. They say you have dragons and you'll use them to take back the Iron Throne. Ashara told me stories of dragons when I was a child. Elia, too. Dorne fought back against them during your ancestor's conquest."

"I have no qualms with Dorne," Daenerys told him softly. "And I am sorry for your losses. I am not my father nor my brothers. I wish to do things differently. The Lannisters, a common enemy between us, rule Kings Landing, do they not? We can ensure they will not bring harm to anyone else, not under my rule. House Dayne of Starfall is a noble house in Dorne with... close ties to the Martells of Sunspear. As I know it, the Martells despise Lannisters as well."

"Why would we fight for you? Justice is a mere action when you'd be getting the Iron Throne. Dorne has been at peace for many years."

"Perhaps..." Dany paused and glanced toward Ser Barriston. The older man met her gaze with an arched brow and a curious, almost concerned glint in his eye. She pursed her lips. She needed stronger allies, she needed angry allies... and even queens require heirs. "Perhaps House Dayne would be more pleased if one of their own became King Consort of Westeros." 

(Y/N)'s eyes only narrowed in response. The crown would be tempting to any man, especially one of noble birth, but he only appeared annoyed by the offer. "I'm afraid my brother, Lord Aran Dayne, is content with his wife, and Edric is far too young to marry. I've had the freedom of being the youngest all my life. Why would I give it up to become a king when I can do whatever I please?"

"Kings do whatever they please, do they not?"

"Kings like Robert Baratheon and Aerys Targaryen, sure. Your brother did whatever he pleased as prince and plunged the kingdom into war. Rulers do what the people want, what they need. You haven't exactly been keeping your people happy, Daenerys. Dorne will only ally themselves if we know we'll win. You may have your army but Tywin Lannister and his dog have been commanding far longer than you and I have been alive. Prince Doran will never allow a child parading themselves as ruler of a city anywhere near Dorne's army. You'll have better luck asking for Prince Oberyn's hand in marriage."

"It almost sounds as if you believe you can do a better job than me... if so, join my council. You'll have your freedom and when the time comes, you'll have your justice. Perhaps then, you'll feel more inclined to accept my proposal. I know Dorne is known for its... queer customs. You view bastards as equal, women are seen as fine rulers, and having multiple lovers is common. Many have their opinions of Dorne but... I'd be rather happy with a Dornishman. I will grant you the freedom of doing as you please, if you become my consort, as long as we have a-" Her voice nearly broke, forcing her to pause again and clear her throat. "A healthy heir. What do you say now, Dayne?"

[missswritesalot]

Masterlist

requests open

It’s come to my attention my links don’t work occasionally. If you click on one of the tags at the bottom of my works eg daemon smut or robb stark imagines, it should show you all of my relevant posts.

I’m sorry about the inconvenience, I’ll get my links working well as soon as I can.

House of the Dragon 🐉

Daemon Targaryen

• Small Victories 👑 (most popular!) Daemon wants Aemma’s ward, Y/N Strong, and plays dirty to get her

• My Prince 🌶️ wife!reader is obsessed with him and wants his babies

• My Prince 🌶️ preg!wife!reader is frustrated and insecure and very much in love (tw spanking, very kinky imo)

Game of Thrones ⚔️

Robb Stark

• Robb Stark 🌶️ Request: mean and possessive

• request: ♥️ shy wife!reader stands up for him

• request: ♥️ Dornish wife!reader is mean to him

• A Pact of Ice and Fire (Robb Stark x Dany’s sister!reader) 🧊 🔥 🤍 🧡

Background

Chapter 1

Chapter 2

Chapter 3

• Winter’s thorn (Robb Stark x Tyrell!reader) 🥀 ❄️

Chapter 1

Chapter 2

[jonsnowunemploymentera]

Imo saying Jon won't care that he's half Targ because he has "nothing to do with that house" is a not only very simplistic way of viewing his arc but also just a flat out wrong and bad take. Like my brothers and sisters in R'hllor, he has everything to do with that house even though he may not bear the name! Jon is constantly equated with Targs in the series. In fact, he's constantly equated with the best that house has to offer. He's got Jaehaerys and Alysanne in him, he's directly paralleled with Maester Aemon and Aegon V, he transforms into Daeron the Good at the Wall, and he's basically best boy Jacaerys resurrected some 200 years later. Let's also not forget that he's best girl Dany's 1:1 narrative mirror. Jon's personality is what you get when you combine Daemon the Rogue Prince, a little bit of Maekar I, Egg, a teaspoon of Rhaegar, a few sprinkles of Baelor Breakspear, and a whole cup of Jaehaerys. He has the heroism of Aemon the Dragonknight, the innate leadership of Aegon the Conqueror, the youthful foolhardy of Daeron the Young Dragon, and the aggressive pettiness of Prince Daemon. He's got Daemon Blackfyre's nobility and Brynden Rivers' terrifying pragmatism. His rebirth is literally equated to the waking of a dragon ("two kings to wake the dragon", "promised prince born amidst salt and smoke"). He has both the good and the bad that comes with House Targaryen. He also has the good and bad of House Stark, but no one ever thinks less of him for that... Y'all let Targ hate and Rhaegar hate (both of which are just extensions of Dany hate lbr) cloud your judgement and ignore what's right in front of you. Jon is a Targ. The same way he is a Stark. He's not either or, he's both. The lesson at the end of the day isn't for him to choose one or the other. The lesson is to recognize that he so much of BOTH in him, and he can take these and become whatever he wants - bastard as he is.

[agentrouka-blog]

Yeah, Jon's plain looks and overall countenance (bless him, I do love it) is why they're so desperate that Jon comes back a completely changed, violent, possessive man with white hair and red eyes, because it's the only way Dany will be interested in him. This came up in the new Jon video by Alt Shift X btw. I find it so incredibly silly.

I do think Jon will be changed in personality, and that's where Sansa figures in as significant-- it would be ironic if the sister he was the least close to is what makes him human again!-- but... losing Lyanna in his face? Isn't there the perfect set-up for him realising that his mother has been staring back at him in the mirror this whole time?

They really think his Stark side is just a sort of parking space where GRRM put him until he could (finally) upgrade to Targaryen, don't they?

The idea that Lyanna, who parallels Jon not just in her suffering (sexually coerced by a captor, freed by a wolf and bleeding out, dying at 16) but also in her heroics (facing off against three opponents to defend a weaker person, going 'undercover') is the less important parent compared to the prophecy-obsessed deadbeat? Ridiculous.

GRRM isn't playing "spot the hint!" with their shared looks in order to take them away before they were ever relevant. He didn't create Lyanna in order to make her a passively enthusiastic vessel for Rhaegar's prophecy boy. Lyanna is the point.

Jon is who he is because of Lyanna. The girl who begged for the life of a child she had no choice in having. He looks like her, acts like her, lives because she was a wolf and her brother loved her and the pack survives. His Targaryen side is not a fulfillment of purpose. I still predict GRRM will not make Jon a magical key to anything, specifically to defy Rhaegar's egocentric logic. Jon is no destined hero. He's a human person muddling through and making hard choices with personal integrity. Negotiating. Planning. And counting the damn beets so people can eat.

His Targaryen father is a(nother) challenge to Jon's sense of identity, a dark and painful one, that can only be overcome through love - for Lyanna the person, for his pack and by his pack for him. (And a special treat enabled only by not being Ned's son...)

It's like you said, she (and in consequence his own self-worth) has been staring at him in the mirror all this time. No shame, but love in spite of it all.

[theotherdragomirgirl]

ELIA OF DORNE and ANDROMACHE OF TROY

I have long wanted to write this meta of sorts, because if there is one mythological woman Elia Nymeros Martell has always reminded me of, it's Princess Andromache of Troy (or Andromache of Cilician Thebe).

In Greek mythology, Andromache was the wife of Trojan Prince Hector, daughter of King Eetion, and sister to Podes. She was born and raised in the city of Cilician Thebe, over which her father ruled.

Following the Trojan War, after Achilles has killed Hector and Troy is being captured and sacked by the Greeks, her son by Hector, named Astyanax (born Scamandrius) was murdered by being thrown off the city walls. His killer, Neoptolemus, son of the mythical warrior Achilles, then took Andromache as his concubine. By him, she was the mother of Molossus, Pielus, Pergamus and Amphialus.

The world of ancient Greek Mythology mostly does not sees rape of women conquered in war as rape at all, and yet, King Priam of Troy, father in law of Andromache, himself talks of the mass rape that will happen should Troy fall.

In Iliad, Andromache is portrayed as the perfect wife, weaving a cloak for her husband in the innermost chambers of the house and preparing a bath in anticipation of his return from battle. Just as Princess Elia is said to be "a good woman, kind and clever, with a gentle heart and a sweet wit", enough so that even her melancholic prince, who even by accounts of those who admired him most, did not have it in himself to be happy, grew "very fond of her".

Just like Andromache represents the injustice done to the women of Troy, to women of war torn lands in general, Elia represents the injustice done to women in King's Landing during the sack of the city.

Andromache and Elia are both widows of Crown Princes when their cities are sacked, but that doesn't save them from gruesome fates. If anything, being married to the dead heir to the throne dooms them too. One to a lifetime of misery, the other to an unbelievably horrific death.

We first learn about Elia through Daenerys, as she imagines the fall of the Targaryen dynasty:

"Yet sometimes Dany would picture the way it had been, so often had her brother told her the stories. The sack of King’s Landing by the ones Viserys called the Usurper’s dogs, the lords Lannister and Stark. Princess Elia of Dorne pleading for mercy as Rhaegar’s heir was ripped from her breast and murdered before her eyes. The polished skulls of the last dragons staring down sightlessly from the walls of the throne room while the Kingslayer opened Father’s throat with a golden sword."

Daenerys' description of the sack, and what happened to Elia and the rest of the Targaryen royals during it, is very similar to what befell Andromache. Her son was ripped from her arms, and murdered before her eyes, while her father-in-law was murdered by the invading forces. Elia and Andromache's role as mother, a fundamental element of their position in marriage, is emphasized within the text of their respective tales.

Following the murders of their sons (and daughter also, in Elia's case) both women are subjected to aggravated rape. Andromache is made a sex slave, and Elia is raped to death.

Both women had their family entirely stripped from them by the violence of war, making them fulfill the fate of conquered women in ancient warfare.

Both are wives of admired, beloved crown princes seen as the hope and future of their dynasty. And later, widows.

Both loose everything due to their husbands dying in war at the hands of a great warrior. Robert of House Baratheon, in case of Elia. And Achilles, in case of Andromache.

The so-called (or so-perceived) "good guys" of the stories victimize Elia and Andromache, or outright benefit from their victimization.

In some versions, it is Odysseus who kills Andromache's infant son, and then takes her mother-in-law, Hecuba, as his war prize.

Robert Baratheon had a just cause to rise against the man literally named "the mad king", but he defiles the justness of his own cause by walking to his throne of swords over the brutalized dead bodies of Elia and her children (Princess Rhaenys, not even three years old, stabbed half a hundred times, infant Aegon bashed into a bloody pulp against the wall, Elia raped with her son's blood and brain on her rapist's hands, then cut in half by him), calling them "dragonspawn" with disgust. Not only refusing her family justice, but actually awarding the man who orchestrated the monstrous deeds with a crown for his daughter.

Then there is their treatment by other women:

Hermione, daughter of Menelaus, king of Sparta, and his wife, Helen of Troy, wife of Andromache's captor and rapist Neoptolemus, blamed Andromache for her inability to become pregnant, claiming that she was casting spells on her to keep her barren. To the point that she asked her father to kill Andromache and her son while Neoptolemus was away at Delphi.

The same way, in text, Cersei Lannister blames Elia for her unhappiness as wife of Robert. Basically declaring that if Rhaegar had only married her, not Elia, everything and everyone would be well and happy. That it must have been madness that drove King Aerys to marry his son to the Dornish Princess.

Outside of text, we have the fandom's treatment of, and attitude towards, Elia. People who prefer Rhaegar Targaryen with Lyanna Stark, treat Elia as if she was the interloper in the marriage, and not his lawfully wedded legal wife, in eyes of both the Old Gods and the new. I have seen people outright say "fuck Elia and her children". It is honestly... Bizarre.

Andromache was famous for her fidelity and virtue. And it is safe to say Elia was both of those things too. Since even her biggest detractors, Jon Connington and Cersei Lannister, two people who wanted her husband for themselves, could not find any fault in Elia in that regard. Jon could only complain that Elia was sickly and unworthy of Rhaegar, despite the fact that she gave him two children in two years, and Cersei could only complain about Elia's breast size.

And yet, for all their amazing qualities, both women still suffered unquestionably and immensely, all for someone else's "love story".

Paris made off with Helen, and Andromache payed the price with all that she held dear.

Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna and thousands died for it. Including his innocent wife and children.

Andromache.

Elia.

Daughter

Princess

Sister

Wife

Mother

[fromtheseventhhell]

I’ll never forget how insecure Stansa’s got when the Key Five was revealed, complained about it and then to cope they created the ‘Core Six’ and actually ties into their continuous stream of passing of fanon as canon and at the same time being the usual delusional bunch they’ve always been

What's really funny is that they still confidently claim that the Key Five doesn't mean anything, solely because she isn't a part of it. The Core Six is a completely fanon invention but people talk about it like it's fact. They want her to be more important than she is so badly that they're straight up ignoring the author. And yes, until otherwise stated by George, the Key Five are still a thing. Tbh I'm not sure if there was ever a time that they engaged with the source material though? A lot of them came from the show (*cough*fanfiction) so that's where a majority of their takes are coming from. That's why we get people saying things like "Sansa charmed George off the page" or "Sansa took Arya's place as George's favorite Stark sister". They just desperately want the show to match up with the books. What's annoying is that her not being a part of the Key Five doesn't mean she isn't important, but people take it as hate towards her. It's sad that the only version of her they like is her fanon one.

[la-pheacienne]

“Robert will never keep to one bed,” Lyanna had told him at Winterfell, on the night long ago when their father had promised her hand to the young Lord of Storm’s End. “I hear he has gotten a child on some girl in the Vale.” Ned had held the babe in his arms; he could scarcely deny her, nor would he lie to his sister, but he had assured her that what Robert did before their betrothal was of no matter, that he was a good man and true who would love her with all his heart. Lyanna had only smiled. “Love is sweet, dearest Ned, but it cannot change a man’s nature.”

For the first time in years, he found himself remembering Rhaegar Targaryen. He wondered if Rhaegar had frequented brothels; somehow he thought not.

Robert would swear undying love and forget them before evenfall, but Ned Stark kept his vows.

"Lyanna is a hypocrite for calling out chronic cheaters like robert and then running away with Rhaegar" this is truly funny, the fact that you associate a man who chronically visits brothels, fucks child prostitutes and leaves bastards all around, with a man who left his one (1) arranged marriage for another girl he fell in love with. Especially when Ned already makes this exact comparison in the very first book, first between Robert and Rhaegar and then between Robert and himself, just to showcase how fucked up in the head his BFF Robert was compared to both Rhaegar and himself.

And now I'm not saying Ned should be uncritically treated by the reader as this paragon of virtue and feminism. I'm saying, however, that Ned's standards of "decent behavior towards women" are pretty close to the writer's standards of decent behavior towards women, in universe, considering he has one of the healthiest marriages and probably the healthiest relationship with his daughters in the asoiaf universe and his one basic fatal flaw regarding his sister is precisely arranging her marriage with his BFF Robert, a decision that haunts him to this day considering he spends one whole book reflecting on and regretting his friendship with Robert and his decision to marry his sister to Robert. And this regret is now reinforced by every single one of Robert's actions during or prior to AGOT that Ned finds repulsive, aka his murderous obsession with Dany, his violent treatment of Cersei, his mistreatment of all these women/children and their kids, his approval of the murder and rape of Elia and her kids.

Ned now finally realizes what Lyanna already instinctively knew about Robert's nature from the get go (even if she didn't have all the data at the time). He should have known what she already instinctively knew, despite being so young, but he was too far gone into his delululand of sacred bromance with Robert to care. Now he knows precisely why his sister chose Rhaegar and now he reflects on all this and his regret and guilt run so deep but it's too late because Lyanna and Rhaegar are dead and there is nothing he can do about it. And the harrowing recounting of Lyanna's death in Ned's pov is something for sure, but let's not forget the understated yet still discernable regret and sadness in his visual memory of Rhaegar's death which is in sharp contrast with his complete apathy and emotional detachment towards his living breathing friend who is standing right in front of him:

“I vowed to kill Rhaegar for what he did to her.” “You did,” Ned reminded him. “Only once,” Robert said bitterly. They had come together at the ford of the Trident while the battle crashed around them, Robert with his warhammer and his great antlered helm, the Targaryen prince armored all in black. On his breastplate was the three-headed dragon of his House, wrought all in rubies that flashed like fire in the sunlight. The waters of the Trident ran red around the hooves of their destriers as they circled and clashed, again and again, until at last a crushing blow from Robert’s hammer stove in the dragon and the chest beneath it. When Ned had finally come on the scene, Rhaegar lay dead in the stream, while men of both armies scrabbled in the swirling waters for rubies knocked free from his armor. “In my dreams, I kill him every night,” Robert admitted. “A thousand deaths will still be less than he deserves.“ There was nothing Ned could say to that.

Ned's trajectory from being a victim of the evil targaryen dynasty and Robert's faithful friend to questioning the entire basis of his old allegiance and realizing that actually Rhaegar maybe should have been King and that his sister was right about Robert because he's indeed full of shit, his subsequent guilt, regret and disillusionment over the regime he enabled, and his inability to save his house from collapse are all core elements of his arc and why his character is so fascinating and tragic. Ned's gradual deconstruction of Robert and his friendship with him is the thought process that led to all of the above. Ned remembering Lyanna's quote about Robert is there precisely to reinforce his disillusionment with Robert and highlight his difference with Rhaegar, a recurring theme in his arc. And it is particularly funny that so many people that call themselves Stark Stans TM (!!!) just swipe away all of the subtext and actual text surrounding this quote just to prove a point that is directly antithetical to the quote, its meaning and its function in the narrative, while also framing lyanna as a hypocrite over it lmao.

[ratscapism]

i was just thinking that incest in asoiaf is much rarer / more unique than we tend to joke around about. i mean from the main cast

pov-characters:

jon : no incestuous relationship dany : was sexually abused by her brother arya : no incestuous relationships bran : no incestuous relationships ned : no incestuous relationships cat : no incestuous relationships sansa : no incestuous relationships theon : brief harassment with sister (noncon); possibly abused by uncle; no known incestuous relationships aeron : was sexually abused by brother asha : brief harassment with brother (voluntary); no incestuous relationships arianne : no incestuous relationships (extremely vague maybe implied attraction to uncle) davos : no incestuous relationships tyrion : no incestuous relationships; he was sexually abused by his father by proxy in this nasty "forced to have sex with" teenhood scene; his sister twisted his genital when he was a baby samwell : no incestuous relationships jaime : the famous twin incest cersei : the famous twin incest oreo : no incestuous relationships arys : no incestuous relationships quentyn : no incestuous relationships barristan : no incestuous relationships victarion : no incestuous relationships jon con : no incestuous relationships brienne : no incestuous relationships melisandre : no incestuous relationship

non-pov but relevant:

sandor : no incestuous relationships gendry : no incestuous relationships stannis : no incestuous relationships renly : no incestuous relationships robb : no incestuous relationships ygritte : no incestous relationships gilly : abuse survivor at the hand of her father robert : no incestuous relationships euron : sexually abused / raped his brothers varys : no incestuous relationships littlefinger : roleplays incestuous fantasies by pretending to be sansa stark's sexually abusive father pycelle : no incestuous relationships jorah : no incestuous relationships joffrey : in fact no incestuous relationships; very possibly sexually abused his brother but maybe terrorised him otherwise lancel : abused by / sex with older cousin cersei roose : no incestuous relationships bronn : no incestuous relationships aegon the maester : no incestuous relationships aegon the young griff : no incestuous relationships ramsay : weirdly enough, no incestuous relationships! mance : no incestuous relationships tormund : no incestuous relationships irri : no incestuous relationships jhiqui : no incestuous relationships drogo : no incestuous relationships pod : no incestuous relationships edmure : no incestuous relationships blackfish : no incestuous relationships lysa : no incestuous relationships; ymmv whether her doting/breastfeeding over robin constitutes csa sweetrobin : see above margaery : possibly had threesome arrangement with renly and loras; but maybe it's simply margaery/renly (cover) + renly/loras with no direct sexual interaction loras : possibly had threesome arrangement with margaery and renly; but maybe it's simply margaery/renly (cover) + renly/loras with no direct sexual interaction doran : no incestuous relationships oberyn : no known incestuous relationships (rumour about elia but imo mostly implied it's untrue) tywin : dynastic cousin marriage jeor mormont : no known incestuous relationships freys (general) : iirc in that sprawling multigenerational patriarchal mess there is one known serial sexual abuser (black frey) which statistically checks out

tell me if i forget important things (very possible)! but IN SUMMARY my opinion is that there is a very regular very normal amount of incest in asoiaf. most of it is, as you'd expect, in the context of familial abuse, which is common irl and common in asoiaf: you have a number of sexually abusive relatives and various constellations thereof. you have some dynastic intermarrying or cover-ups with people intermarrying "according to their station" and trying to keep their blood "good". you have here specifically the history of the now defeated / near extinguished targaryen dynasty which practiced this extensively as part of the background worldbuilding but since they are mostly dead and killed, we don't actually see much of it. you have some "extreme cases" like crasters extremely systematic sexual abuse in an isolated cultish place. and some unique constellations like consensual cersei/jaime twin incest which is special in asoiaf as it would be special irl.

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

Rhaenyra's Victory

The "nobody won the Dance" argument is so ridiculous and just flat out wrong. Certain fans (read TG stans), constantly argue that, because Rhaenyra and Aegon both died, the Dance had no victor. GRRM clearly disputes this in both F&B and ASOIAF.

In F&B, the end of the Dance is clearly in favor of the Blacks, despite Rhaenyra's murder. Cregan Stark and the rest of the Black forces took KL, forced the last of the Green supporters to surrender, and placed Aegon III (Rhaenyra's oldest surviving child) on the throne. After that, the last of Aegon II's line died with Jaehaera, leaving Rhaenyra's as the only legitimate and surviving royal line. That means, in simple terms, Rhaenyra's family won the war. They were the survivors of the war and ruled for the rest of the Targaryen Dynasty.

Speaking of the rest of the dynasty, there's a second way GRRM makes Rhaenyra's victory clear, and that's through Daenerys Targaryen. Despite the Blacks winning the final conflict of the Dance, male primogeniture was accepted and reinforced throughout the following kings' reigns. Baela and Rhaena were passed over as options to be Aegon III's heirs before his marriage to Daenaera. Daena and her sisters were passed over in favor of Viserys II and his children. Vaella was dismissed in favor of Aegon V. The first woman to be named heir to the IT since Rhaenyra was Dany, something done purely because she was Viserys III's final surviving relative (no, the relatives in other houses don't count).

No matter the reason Dany was named as heir, she eventually succeeded her brother as the head of House Targaryen and the rightful ruler of Westeros. After becoming the head of the house, she awoke dragons from stone and became Khaleesi of her own Khalasar. Dany then began a conquest across Slaver's Bay and eventually conquered Meereen and became its queen. Thus she became a conqueror and queen in her own right.

Despite House Targaryen embracing the sexist Andal traditions about succession, the future of the house now rests on the shoulders of a woman. Dany is the final ruler belonging to the house, a queen regnant who overcame every man who stood in her way. Not only that, but she awakened dragons from stone, thus beginning to heal the damage done by the Dance and the greens' misogyny.

Dany, a woman, is the savior of House Targaryen and arguably one of its most powerful rulers to date. She not only is continuing its legacy, but is bettering it. Rhaenyra's legacy is her female descendant who will save not only the house but the whole goddamn world. Dany enacts radical social change in Essos, rules her city well (as much as she can with the slavers' interference), and brought dragons, the key to defeating the Others, back into the world. Daenerys is Rhaenyra's final victory over the greens' misogyny and treason.

[blissfulphilospher]

if they adapt Robert's Rebellion

I don't want to give anyone ideas but if they ever make Robert Rebellion's tv or movie version then Robert Baratheon is going to be portrayed as the worst man ever who raped woman here and there and probably assaulted Lyanna.

And that's why she ran away with the tragic melancholic godly prince who was so noble and good but trapped in a marriage with either an unstable chronically ill brown woman or a scheming ambitious brown woman who doesn't love him at all and maybe cheats on him.

Tragic King Aerys who loves his family and wants to burn the whole city because he has a good cause!! Sacrifices will wake dragons! Dragons eggs could have hatched before Dany! Aerys' was a genius. And yes Rhaella supported him and Rhaegar with everything.

It was House Targaryen against the world.

Also, Tywin Lannister was best buddy of Aerys. He sent the Mountain and Amory Lorch to protect the royal family! Those noble knights who accidentally killed the little girl maybe because he couldn't identify whether the Princess was Targaryen or not? Maybe she wasn't.

The Mountain too had similar accidents because Aegon isn't the ptwp or he doesn't exist at all. Problem solved! Rhaegar had no son! This is true! Jon is his only son!!

And let's not forget how hard it was for the Mountain and other guy to climb the building, their struggle to get in Maegor's Holdfast!! They will show us that, than the Princess who is trapped helplessly in a tower with a drawbridge, drawn up and no way to escape with her children.

But no problem that those children died, they were nothing special no one mourns them or their mother. They deserved to be killed and forgotten. House Martell supports Targaryens! They will rise for Jon if they knew! True love of the prince Rhaegar already gave him the only son. Aegon 6th!!

And see a noble honourable Stark lord will raise because 'song ice and fire!' 'prophecy baby' and not because he is the last piece of his sister and that's what any uncle will do.

And… Jon Arryn? Who is Jon Arryn? Why does he want to rebel? He has no reason! (His heir was also murdered idk why people forget that!)

And yes the war was started by Littlefinger if you didn't know before he hyped up Brandon to march to KL. 😄