#sometimes you can just tell when Alastor is written by someone who' isn't ace

[allastoredeer]

Discussing fandom and its trends is one of my favorite things 🤓 I hope you don't mind me sharing some of the pseudotheories and pseudoanalyses I've seen before (to me they're all fun and I don't think they should be taken 100% seriously, please no one be offended)

1 The name of the boat that goes first is the favorite.

Quite funny in my opinion and from what I have seen it is not necessarily false, but many times it is that putting it differently sounds *wrong*, especially when they are combinations of the name

(Although after seeing that apparently apple radio and radioapple are not the same now I need an explanation of what radiosilent is as opposed to radiostatic)

2 The sub is The favorite

The first time I saw this was in a SW comment thread with a Chinese reader who was commenting with the author about top/Bottom preferences for the language and commented on this theory. They said that the Bottom gets all the love and since you want your favorite character to be adored that's why you write it like that

3 you project yourself into the Bottom

This came from another fandom, things got heated and toxic and a common accusation from a ship is that half the ship "had no personality" and they were using it to project themselves into a relationship whith the top

Personally I think they are all true to some extent, but I also see them as renunciationist and I myself am not without my own prejudices.

Part of the problem is that in relationships m/m and w/w, they continue to be written as one part a hairy-chested alpha male and the other part a blushing, submissive (and I have a weakness for ABO bulbs but there the problem is worse). In the case of radioapple Alastor has been reduced to his ego and need for control (so he could never let go. And is there something strangely allosexual about the way they write it?) and Lucifer to his depression (so he needs to be adored... And the truth is, I do think 3 applies here)

With what we see, I think that Lucifer has no problem being at the bottom, but his preference is at the top, even bordering on the Dom.Lucifer has insecurity and depression but he also knows he is powerful and we see him being authoritarian even if he later recants.He seems to be the type who would enjoy being the one to give pleasure to his partner, but I also don't see him giving up control easily when there are already so many things in his life out of control.Lucifer doesn't want someone to come in and take control by emptying his head, he wants something he can control and show exactly how good he is at it.

Alastor, on the other hand (this is where my prejudice comes in): what does he gain by being the top? Some kind of power play? Because I feel like Alastor can find that high without involving genital play.How ace (and probably aroace and almost certainly on the gray or demi side for most fics to work) Alastor would need something more to really get involved like that, which is why I feel like the top Alastor fics almost always feel too Allo for my taste, he just fucks like anyone else.When Alastor is the Bottom the writer gives him a little more nuance.

So that's my two cents to the discussion 🙃

Honestly, I think you're on point with most of these. (I too would like to know the difference between radiosilence and radiostatic - i see a lot of different names pop up for Alastor/Vox, whether its reciprocal or unrequited, and I can't keep up with it. I think radiosilence means the attraction is one-side? Maybe?? I think??

I can see the logic behind people having their fav be the bottom because they want them to feel loved and adored. I, too, am guilty of this. It also probably helps that the top is usually depicted as doing most of work LOL (Bringing Doms and Subs into this, there are a lot of fics that explore sub-drop, usually with their fav character--which I totally get--but it'd be interesting to read more fics that explore dom-drop too).

Personally, I've never felt any real attraction towards the characters I like, so I've never projected myself as a bottom or top through a pairing to be with one of the character. I project my insecurities and life experiences on them 🤓☝️ LMAO same basic concept, just a different shades But characterXreader fics/posts are super popular! So, I see that one too.

Part of the problem is that in relationships m/m and w/w, they continue to be written as one part a hairy-chested alpha male and the other part a blushing, submissive (and I have a weakness for ABO bulbs but there the problem is worse). In the case of radioapple Alastor has been reduced to his ego and need for control (so he could never let go. And is there something strangely allosexual about the way they write it?) and Lucifer to his depression (so he needs to be adored... And the truth is, I do think 3 applies here)

Very much agreed. I enjoy Omegaverse fics too, but it's one of those fanfic tropes that I'm picky about. It needs to be written a certain way for me to really enjoy it.

I don't know, just the default that one person has to be dominate and the other has to submissive never sat right with me. For a long time, I was super squicked out by even the thought of being in a relationship because of this. I'm a small person, most people are taller than me, and I'm pretty thin, so the mental assumption that I'd have to be "the submissive one," considering that's what almost always happens in these depicted relationships, made me feel so much anger, anxiety, and discomfort. I hated the thought that that's what would be expected of me. (Personal lore drop: considering I also grew up in a hyper-religious, extremely patriarchal town, the expectation felt 10x worse and 100x more real. I dreaded getting older and starting romantic/sexual relationships).

Also, yes, with a lot of top!Alastor content I've seen, there is something very strangely allosexual about it. Or, at least that's how it comes off to me. Asexuality is a spectrum, so there's no "perfect" way to be ace, it's just...there's just something about it that feels very allosexual, and maybe why I keep shying away from it. It squicks me out a bit, ngl.

People keep saying they see Lucifer as a switch, and funnily enough, it was actually confirmed by Vivenne Mendrano that he canonically is a switch! Of course, if people want to see him exclusively as a bottom or top, that's fair. You do you, boo. We're here to have a good time. But I'm very happy with his canon sexuality, so that's where I keep him. I can see him as a sub and a dom, too.

I also see Lucifer as the type who enjoys giving his partner pleasure! Be it bottoming, topping, subbing, or domming. He'll try out kinks and position and role-play, because I headcanon him and Lilith having a very healthy, very explorative sex-life. They were freaks in the sheets, and they tried all the new, crazy shit sinners brought with them into Hell.

I keep Alastor exclusively as a bottom, though. Some of it is because I see him being kind of grossed out with the idea of a part of him going into someone else (hello self projection!) but I also see him generally being sex-indifferent. Like, he'll have sex, and he'll enjoy it, but it's not something he typically seeks out for himself. Maybe once in a way, when he's in the ✨mood✨ he'll initiate. If his partner wants sex and he doesn't, he's not forcing himself. If his partner wants sex and he's kind of just vibing--not feeling horny, but not really against it either--yeah, he'll have sex. It's not like he's getting nothing out of it, he still feels and enjoys the pleasure in the act, even if he's generally indifferent towards doing it.

If he's comfortable with it he'll even indulge their kinks (and indulge his own 😉 not all kinks have to be sexual, afterall. And even if his are, that is still valid and does not take away from his sexuality because aces can still have sexual kinks 🫵 I'm looking at you, people who assume aces can't have sexual desires). (I also gave Alastor a power kink 😏 because I think he'd be into his partner displaying immense amounts of power. It doesn't even have to be directed at him. He'll watch his boo destroy a city block and then fuck them later because that was hawt.)

A lot of it could also be because he feels too allo for me when he is written as a top. Lol "he fucks like everyone else," is a very good way to put it 😂 When he bottoms, it feels like he's written with more of his ace-identity in mind, which I love!

But also, I like Alastor being a bottom just because. I vibe with it. 'Nuff said.

Thank you for your two cents!

[allastoredeer]

FUCK YES!

Fuck. Yes.

@nyipi you get it. I've been enjoying the "Apology Tour" fan-art, and the Alastor versions of them (particularly StaticRadio), but as soon as I see any blame on Alastor for not reciprocating Vox's feelings, I am out.

Or with any ship in general, though I do see it the most in RadioStatic.

Now, I understand the angst of Vox falling head over heels for Alastor and all the hurt and painful feelings that come from not having those feelings reciprocated whatsoever, but as soon as it looks like the blame for the relationship falling apart is on Alastor because he didn't share Vox's feelings, I just...I can't. Nope. Nuh-uh. No thanks. Get that shit out of here.

"my problem is if it actually reflects your belief that the aro/ace character is at fault while the other half of the ship is a precious baby for catching feelings and did nothing wrong."

This right here is literally it ⬆️

It's very telling when the aro/ace character is made out to be at fault while the other half of the ship is just a poor, precious angsty baby who did nothing wrong but catch feelings for someone who's "unable" to do the same. (I have so much to say about ace-aro people being seen/drawn/written/depicted as "unable" to love, or "unable" to form deep and meaningful relationships, or "unable" to feel and understand the emotions that other people do, especially when it's worded as something they "can't" do - but that's a topic for another time!)

I rarely see people really consider the perspective & emotions of the ace/aro character on the other end of the relationship, and how much it affects them.

I mean, think about itm you have this person that you love hanging out with, they're fun, they're great to talk to, and they like being around you in turn. You have good times together and love them. You do. You love their presence. They're companionship. Your friendship means the world to you.

But then, suddenly, things start to change and you feel that change. You notice the shift in the relationship. That there is something new coming into play. You notice the look in their eyes and the expressions on their face, and feel dread. Anxiousness. Uncertainty.

You start to avoid these new interactions and tells. You side-step them, because either you're wrong and they don't actually feel anything for your--you're just seeing things--or you're right, and confronting this outright can lead to so much awkwardness and embarrassment. It's a hard conversation to have, for both of you, and it's a direct line to the relationship changing, no matter which way it goes, and that's scary.

You don't reciprocate the hints they're dropping. You don't even try to. You pretend not to see it in hopes that, eventually, their new feelings will fade. You emphasize that you're friends. You try to drop you're own hints that this is a friendship and you like it this way. Sometimes, you think they see it and understand.

(And other times, you may not even notice the change in the relationship at all. You didn't pick up the hint. The signs weren't obvious. They wanted to go to a movie? Hell yeah! You love seeing movies! They want to go to dinner? Going out to eat with a friend sounds awesome. They got you something super special for your birthday? They're such a good friend and you love them so much for how much they care about you in return).

And then, suddenly, the shoe drops. It's out in the open. They're crushing on you. They're in love with you. They're attracted to you. They want to date you. They want more than you're willing to give.

And when you tell them you don't feel the same, when you tell them you still want to be friends and you mean it with you're whole heart, your heart breaks when that isn't enough for them. They start to break away. They distance themselves. They tell you that it hurts too much not to have you in the way they want, and that's why they can't bear to be around you.

And you're stuck with this feeling that you're friendship never actually mattered. That it was never enough. That the way you are and what you feel isn't enough. You're angry. They're hurting, but you're hurting too because they're not the only one who lost someone. They're not the only one who's feelings weren't reciprocated. You lost someone important to you too. You lost someone who didn't think you're relationship with them was important enough, valued enough, to keep when it didn't go the way they wanted.

They caught feelings when you didn't. They wanted more and you didn't. You didn't reciprocate, you're not obligated to, yet, somehow, it's still feels like it was your fault. It's painted as being you're fault. You're responsible for they're broken heart. You're responsible for their hurt feelings. You're responsible for the relationship falling apart.

And that's. Not. Fair.

Bringing this back to Hazbin Hotel and Alastor, and using RadioStatic as an example, you know how amazing it would be to actually dive deep into Alastor's perspective/POV of his and Vox's relationship? And I'm not talking about a mean, manipulative and cruel Alastor who noticed Vox's feelings right away and decided to play with them, and didn't actually care about Vox, he was just being a big meanie who wanted a new plaything.

No, I'm talking about an Alastor who did enjoy Vox's company. Who enjoyed talking to him. Who loved meeting him in bars, or roaming the city, or killing people and rising to power in bloodlust and mania. Who had a genuine fondness for Vox and their friendship.

Only for Vox to catch romantic and/or sexual feelings.

I imagine Alastor doesn't have a LOT of friends outside of Mimzie and Rosie (and Niffty and Husk if you want to include them - though that's WAY more complicated in Husk's case), and I imagine he has even less friends who are men.

So this friendship he developed with this other man. This true, genuine friendship where he felt comfortable and sincere, is suddenly ground to a halt. He doesn't feel what Vox feels. Nor does he want to. He likes what they have. He wants to keep it here. Romance was never in the picture, he just wants his friend.

Only for it to feel like rejection when that isn't enough for Vox. When Vox starts getting upset because he wants more, when his feelings get hurt as he realizes Alastor doesn't feel the same. Vox getting angry. He's hurt. He's embarrassed. He's been rejected and that stings.

And all of that is being funneled on Alastor all because he doesn't feel the way Vox wants him to feel. And that stings. That makes him angry and embarrassed. Maybe he's the one who feels used. Maybe he's the one who feels foolish for ever letting this relationship develop.

There are so many complex and complicated emotions that go into a relationship like this. It's so much more than "the ace-aro person doesn't love them back and now they're a sad, heartbroken little lamb who's only mistake was thinking that the ace-aro person would love them back."

We, the audience, is so often made to feel more sympathetic for the one who wanted romance and didn't get it. For the one who was "rejected" and "heart-broken," even though that is a two way street. If you think the person who wanted a romance feels more pain than the person who wanted friendship/companionship, then you need to re-evaluate your perception of love and friendship, because that's just not true.

Sorry OP, I didn't mean to hijack your post, I guess I just had a lot to say XD but yeah, very much agree with you! As soon as all the blame for a broken relationship is put on the ace-aro character, I am OUT.

I love unrequited love like mad and all the apology tour fanart but alastor ship ver. are great, i eat them up like spaghetti but if i ever see genuine critique on alastor (ace, implied aro) for not liking the other character back and putting blame on him -> it's block on sight 😊

I eat hanahaki fics for breakfast, the guilt-trippy nature in apology tour isn't my problem. if the guilt-tripping is just for a tasty narrative, i'm good,

my problem is if it actually reflects your belief that the aro/ace character is at fault while the other half of the ship is a precious baby for catching feelings and did nothing wrong.

I don't want genuine blame being put on the aro/ace character for just, not being able to give what the other wants. It sends me into a spiral of feelings i cannot explain as an aroace.

[allastoredeer]

No hate, just asking.

So you just personally like bottomAlastor and make every ship with him as bottom because of your personal likes. But this works the same way with bottomLucifer. People liking it and making him bottom in any ship. Or liking topAlastor and making him top in every ship. Maybe there are people who just go with trends in ship dynamics, but a lot of shippers just like it without any 'making mlm into hetero' meaning. Yes even when making Lucifer a bit more feminine since they do it in every ship simply cause more feminine Lucifer does things to them.

Exactly 👉👉 people like what they like and they don't need to defend or give me a list of reasons why they like it. I figured people liked bottom!Lucifer or top!Alastor because it scratches that itch for them (much like me with bottom!Alastor), otherwise they wouldn't be writing/drawing it at all.

It's why I don't seek out fans I disagree with or lurk on their pages/blogs to bombard them with reasons why I, personally, don't like how they depict radioapple (and because that's just a shitty thing to do in general, and no should be doing that. That's a one-way ticket to turning fandom into a very toxic place).

I keep my opinions and thoughts to my blog page for that reason. This is place where I can write about the things I like and dislike, post my art and fics, and interact with fans who share the same thoughts and feelings as I do. I'm sure a lot of fans would disagree, but, to me, most of the depictions of radioapple that I've seen come off as incredibly hetero coded, and a lot of the way Alastor is drawn/written squicks me out, especially when he tops. And that's not in the way that he's overly sexualized or anything, imma gonna sexualize that man to my heart's content, but Alastor's ace identity means a lot to me, and a lot of the time I just...don't feel it with him.

Now there's no "correct" way to write an ace character, as its a spectrum. There isn't a checklist of things you HAVE to follow. But with Alastor, especially when it's in a written work - especially when it's HIS pov - he doesn't feel ace. You can't tell that someone is ace based on how they talk or act - not usually - just like you can't assume a man is gay based on how he runs or talks, or a woman a lesbian because she has a short haircut. But in his POV, we're supposed to be in his head, we're seeing his thoughts and emotions. It's the perfect time to explore what he feels and thinks about relationships, sex, and everything in between, and yet most of the time he reads like any other non-ace character. It's like there's no real thought or consideration given to his identity and the experiences that come with it. Asexuality is more than "don't like sex" or "only like sex sometimes," there's so much more to it than that.

But I also know that this may be the first time some people are interacting or playing with an ace character, and just the fact that they're trying - however unintentionally aphobic it comes off sometimes - the effort is appreciated.

It's a real back and forth thing for me, obviously, LOL fandom culture and spaces can be so frustrating but so fascinating at the same time.

I don't think anyone is intentionally making the ship hetero, nor do they mean to - and besides, this is how I feel, and I know everyone isn't going to feel the exact same way. I'm sure there are people who see it as a very queer relationship, and I'm not going to judge or fight them over it. Everyone has different perspective, after all.

At the end of the day, I don't mind bottom!Lucifer (I see him as a switch, so he definitely enjoys bottoming), I just don't like how he's written/drawn with top!Alastor. It's the depiction of it that turns me off. I've seen top!Alastor and bottom!Lucifer art before that I have liked, but its few and far between, and overall not worth diving into to root out the few pieces I've enjoyed.

I like feminine Lucifer, but not to the extent that I've seen. I like the masculine side of him too, especially because he's a shortie. I like masculine Alastor, but I adore his feminine side. Alastor exudes so much gender, it's insane. He pulls off masculine, feminine, and even non-binary so well. He's versatile ❤️ And it aggravates me when he's depicted as super masculine and all the other stuff is toned down, if not stripped away.

But, like I said, that's why I stay in my little corner and I focus on what I enjoy. Ranting about things you don't like in fandom isn't bad, especially with fans that agree with you. It's very cathartic actually, and I've felt more connected with the fandom than I have since the show aired. it's only when you make your emotions, thoughts, and opinions other people's problems that it becomes a negative thing.

I'm not here to rain on people's parades, so I support, encourage even, that those who do like the things I dislike (and don't enjoy seeing me clown on them) block me. No hard feelings from me. I get it.

Damn, these posts really run away from me. They get so much longer than I intend XD

But anyway, I'm glad people are having fun with super feminine bottom!Lucifer and super masculine top!Alastor, that's the whole point of fandom, but it just isn't for me, at all, and I will likely continue to rant/clown on it with the fans who also share my opinion. I'm not going to shove it anyone's face of course, I'm keeping it to my blog, and I am A-okay with being blocked if that's not something people want to see 😊