#something something outsider perspective that queer people will be more prone to due to being an eternal minority in any part of the world

[dkettchen]

not me adding literal buddhist monk shaolin masters to my very short list of ppl I’ve ever strongly related to the philosophy/mentality/approach to life of oh boy

[jonny-versace]

Hey! I kinda stumbled into your post about The Magicians and, as someone who a) is also interested in fandom culture and b) was an active member of The Magicians fandom during its highest (and lowest) points, I thought I'd share some of the context revolving around the shipping controversy.

So, during the first two seasons, the central m/f ship clearly seems like endgame, with no big hints about the main character being anything but straight. Sure, because the protagonist's best friend is a queer man who has a crush on him, and there are the usual queerbaty lines here and there, they were a big ship among the fandom, but nothing more. Until season 3 came along, and had something of a bottle episode, where the two get stranded in the past together and are explicitly in a romantic relationship. After they return, both kinda acknowledge the fact, but The Plot comes knocking. Shippers became more numerous, and some people started speculating that they could be a viable ship, but most of the fandom took it as a nod from the writers and a self-contained story that wouldn't come back.

All the while, the show's social media accounts hyped up this pairing more than any other, and made frequent remarks suggesting more canon recognition. Virtually every week you'd find a tweet, a poster, and so on, that egged people on. And by this point, the showrunners had the audience's trust due to their handling of other topics. There were more POC than usual for TV, the main character's chronic depression was an ongoing struggle, things like addiction and trauma were handled in believable ways. By having a self-described "depressed supernerd", who is comfortable with being bi/ pan, and storylines that catered to a queer neurodivergent audience, during three years they grew and grew in popularity and as a safe space for exactly these groups. I was one of those: I'm a historian, and pretty used to consuming media critically; I wasn't a teenager who's never seen herself represented, but an adult who got used to looking for good representation when I want to find it, or just watching things with no expectations for the fun of it, and at most dissecting the "what ifs". This show stroke me as the former, and became the relaxing and understanding queer space I ran into after a very long week. And there were A LOT of people in a similar situation.

Then came Season 4, and that's when things got tricky. Because you see, for three years they told us this show was clever, and it turned out to actually be; that this was a subversive and complex story being told in an absurdist way, and all that came to fruition. So when, with this season, there was both a flashback confirming that the main character wanted to persue a romantic relationship with his best friend, like in the past, but got turned down, and a very final break up between him and the girl who seemed like endgame for the first seasons, shipping went from "cool but unlikely pairing" to "damn, that's a great subversion of queerbaiting!". And their social media, trailers, released images and so on confirmed that to the audience (the tweet I recall better had the main m/f pairing, with a closed book, and was captioned with something on the lines of "a chapter ends so that another can begin"). The protagonist spent the entire season trying to rescue the guy he'd confessed feelings for. In a moment where they'd have to establish his identity, the frase said by said guy was the same reference used to talk about the bottle episode multiple times before. The nature of their relationship having changed is acknowledged by another character. At the end of the day, it seemed like a clearly confirmed fact.

And that's when the protagonist dies. There's a lot more ugliness around his death and how it was handled by the script, or how the showrunners pat themselves in the back. But it suffices to say that when an audience is mostly composed of "queer depressed supernerds", killing off the person who represented how someone like this could not only survive, but thrive, is more than a little traumatic. And doing so without ever giving the oh-so-central amd hyped up m/m relationship any ending, good or bad, makes it all seem both pointless and mean spirited.

Sorry about the gigantic text; this was such a unique fandom response and situation that I'm still quite fascinated by it (something like the near perfect creation and corruption of a vulnerable community's safe space). I don't know if you care about it, but just in case this interests you as well, now you have a summary.

hi hello! first, thanks for the extremely thoughtful post, it was interesting (I don't explicitly remember what I said in my post but I very much do remember being fascinated by the fall out of what the show did at the time) (I swear I'll finish pick it from S2 one day, though I'll admit I personally found season one a bit of a slog).

I remember reading enough posts from people on here and articles on sites like io9 to agree that what they did re killing off the bipolar I believe? lead and framing it as a noble sacrifice or something was in extremely poor taste, and I sympathise(d) with all the people who could relate to him and their grief coz like you said, even from my outsider perspective it seemed very ugly on the part of the show.

as far as the ship part of the conversation goes, I'm still largely ignorant of that from a first hand experience pov. but generally speaking, for me, I was and still am fascinated by what these (often lower budget, American CW/syfy etc) shows do to kinda stoke or fan fandom expectations/wants vs what fandoms do to themselves to set themselves up for a fall (canon vs fanon basically). in other words, how much a show queerbaits its audience vs how much the audience queerbaits itself, if that makes sense. not at all saying that's what happened in your fandom, again I haven't yet seen enough of the show to form an opinion on the ship aspect, but really just generally with those kind of shows (Supernatural being the big one recently, that Roswell show, even Teen Wolf going way back).

I usually find myself coming to the conclusion that like most things it's not a black and white issue, and that there's a certain amount of "blame" for lack of a better word on both sides. but again that's usually an observation from me as like a satellite to these shows and fandoms, not really valid in many senses, just something that eases the itchy part of my brain that's super intrigued when these fandom dramas explode as they're prone to do.

but no, I deffo do care in a larger sense so thanks so much! I'll deffo save this in case I ever get around to finishing the show for myself