#so yeah when people generalize the transmasc community as misogynistic and go 'it's so common for transmascs to

[nightmarish-fallen-angel]

hey if literally hundreds of people are interpreting your post a certain way, then maybe you DID imply some things you didn't say. the entire purpose of the post is to complain that there are people who say "transmascs need to unpack their internalized misogyny" and you need to take a step back and realize that isn't a good look no matter how you explain it

I don't believe this is true primarily because the "transandrophobia discourse" that goes against transandrophobia states that the very term/concept means transmascs don't believe transmisogyny exists (which is not true). And the primary people who reblogged that post with the addition everyone is replying to do believe that.

So I struggle to believe that it was taken in good faith.

I did write the post in anger and I wasm't as clear as I would have liked, but I still stand by the argument that constantly singling out the transmasc community as being more prevalent with issues of misogyny or internalized misogyny is wrong.

[daemonhxckergrrl]

against my better judgement i'm jumping on. thought i'd (mostly) left discourse behind but that's not been the case since predstrogen got harrassed across multiple sites.

honest thoughts play-by-play. here we go.

title: oki, hoping this is a good faith post. i'll admit i'm skeptical, but i'll try be objective.

passing: yeah passing is bs and nonsense. the goalposts will always move bc it's about excluding all of us, not about actually meeting critera to pass.

feminine trans men: this is another common issue - cisnormative society can't handle being trans and gnc.

escaping misogyny: ugh yeah i've seen this take far too many times. y'all deserve better.

aren't oppressed: you're oppressed by a society that's transphobic. that's literally what transphobia is.

transmisogynystic problems: who's saying this ? i've seen transmisogynistic takes (and sometimes plain misogynistic takes) couches as "trans men's problems". kinda sus of this.

reduced to genitals: again, common issue and it sucks. biological essentialists, chasers, transmeds, doesn't matter. not hard to be normal about any of us. y'all deserve better.

inherently toxic: there's a problem w/ masculinity being seen as inherently toxic within queer spaces. if it's about that then yeah 100%. however "just being themselves" is vague and i've seen an increased performance of actually toxic masc stuff described that way too. i hope you mean the former.

seen and heard: i sorry what ? yeah this sounds exactly like the kind of stuff used to shut transfems down when we try to bring up transmisogyny, especially that which we face from other queers.

transandrophobia: yeah sorry it doesn't exist. you're not oppressed for being men. you're oppressed for being trans. there's no intersection here. transphobia sucks. it makes life more dangerous for all of us. i had a feeling this post was building to a point like this.

T and surgery: yeah this is that "masculinity bad" thing internalised in a lot of queer spaces. you deserve better.

discouraging T and surgery: see above.

bottom surgery: see above.

bottoms: there's that bioessentialism again. mirrors comptop for transfems (which, I learned by my own experience, isn't exclusive to cis partners. my ex expected me to top 90% of the time, and got to bc he hated arguments and didn't have to prep like i would).

fetishising cis gay men: fuck, people think this ? again, y'all deserve better.

transmasc artists: lmao what ?? people are saying this too ?? is this like an oddly-specific thing ? huh. yeah that sucks

uplifting transfems: who's saying this ??? doesn't look good when combined w/ the earlier stuff about "we get called transmisogynists just for existing"

masculine dangerous: yeah, here's that "masculinity in queer spaces" thing i was on about. something the queer community in general needs to work on. it's the same thing that gets femme transfems still called predators for being 'inherently male' or whatever, and what gets butch and masc transfems that but doubled bc we're wearing our masculinity. y'all ain't any more dangerous than we are.

feminine safe: passably feminine-presenting. clocky fems don't get the same treatment. but most of what needs saying is in the previous point.

women's bathroom: common ground issue and y'all deserve better. tbf is unsafe in both.

run of the mill: it literally is though. this is here as a way to shut down replies like mine. good job crying transandrophobia on your own post, at least, but like are you for real ?

transmisogyny: i would hope you didn't think it was fake or mattered less, and i'll take you at your word here.

wanting oppression: ah, another way to shut down replies like mine. wanting to be oppressed is something white middle class swifties do for the ~ a e s t h e t i c ~ so i wouldn't accuse you of that. nor of wanting attention. i'm not gonna accuse you of being a transmisogynist but i am going to ask you take what i've said in good faith. and think about it. because some of the points you're making are very close to ones transmisogynists make against us.

OP and anyone who reads all of this..tell the tranny to fuck off if you wish. stalk my blog for callout ammo (bc as we all know having kinks that personally squick you, or daring to talk about our own oppression, or expressing sexuality in any way is Immoral and Therefore Problematic and makes us Acceptable Targets of Harrassment (/s in case that wasn't incredibly obvious)). call me a baeddel. or....listen.

consider what i've said, consider your own response. we can listen to each other. we can uplift each other.

You Might Not Be Normal About Trans Men If...

You think we all pass 100% of the time with no issues or effort

You don't think feminine trans men are "real" trans men

You assume we're all transitioning to escape misogyny

You think we aren't oppressed by society

You think our problems are inherently transmisogynistic

You think it's okay to reduce us to our genitals for any reason

You think masculine trans men being themselves are inherently toxic

You think us demanding to be seen and heard and have space within our own community is us being "MRAs" and "transmisogynists"

You think transandrophobia (the idea that trans men experience oppression based on their specific intersection of transness and gender) doesn't exist or inherently is transmisogynistic

You're only okay with trans men if they don't go on T and/or get surgery

You actively try to discourage trans men from going on T and/or getting surgery

You think the previous two points don't include bottom surgery

You think all trans men are bottoms

You think gay trans men are fetishizing gay cis men

You think all transmasc artists are inherently cringe/bad at what they do

You think transmascs only exist to uplift transfems

You think anyone presenting as masculine is inherently dangerous

You think that only men/masculine presenting people can be dangerous

You think that women/feminine presenting people are always safe

You don't think trans men are in danger when forced to use the women's restroom

You think that any oppression/discrimination transmascs face is "run of the mill transphobia" or "run of the mill misogyny"

You think anything I've said on this post means that transmisogyny isn't real or matters less

You're about to leave a comment on this post accusing me of being a transmisogynist or wanting attention or wanting to be oppressed