#she's so pretty!! such maysilee vibes!!

[maritteknewtheenemy]

It seems like your internal misogyny is showing…

Hi bad faith anon! Super cool of you to leave this here without any sort of meaningful attempt to have a discussion or example of this so called misogyny, but okay, I’ll bite. What makes me so misogynistic? I’ll assume this is about my outspoken dislike for Lenore Dove (because it’s always about Lenore fucking Dove.)

I'm only going to say this once, so listen closely (this goes to all the other bad faith anons in my inbox too, you're not each getting a response). Disliking Lenore Dove- or any other female character- is not inherently misogynistic. In fact, there's a real problem in pretending any character is above criticism just because she's female. Disliking a female character 'for no reason' or because they 'have a bad vibe' is misogyny. Disliking a female character just because she's female is misogyny. Disliking a female character just for being good looking is misogyny. Disliking a female character for 'getting in the way' of a ship or dumping your favourite character is misogyny. none of these reasons have any bearing on why I dislike Lenore Dove.

Disliking a female character because she is poorly written, two dimensional character, is not misogyny. I dislike Lenore Dove because she has no characterisation beyond being a reckless wannabe 'rebel' and being Haymitch's perfect, infallible girlfriend. Disliking a female character because the narrative refuses to acknowledge any of their flaws or give them any in the first place is not misogyny. I dislike Lenore Dove because she falls into this trap. Haymitch can't fathom her being anything but perfect, and sure you could argue then that it's just his narration that makes her this way, but it's pretty clear that Suzanne Collin's wanted Lenore Dove to be a martyred, saintlike figure who was so noble and tragic and unproblematic in any way. Which makes Lenore boring at best and insufferable at worst.

Disliking a female character for perpetuating negative stereotypes is not misogyny, especially when those stereotypes themselves are misogynistic in nature. Unfortunately, Lenore Dove manages to somehow fit the manic pixie dream girl stereotype and the dead wife trope both within the span of one book, which sucks for her but doesn't endear me to her in the slightest. Google 'manic pixie dream girl stereotype' and this is the first thing that pops up: "The Manic Pixie Dream Girl is a female character trope, often seen in stories written or directed by men, where a quirky, seemingly "different" woman serves primarily as a catalyst for the male protagonist's growth and self-discovery, rather than having her own agency or development." This definition fits Lenore Dove to the letter. She only exists to explain to Haymitch why the capitol is bad and evil, the only reason he needs to get home is to see her, the only reason he gets reaped is because he tries to save her. The epilogue would have us believe the only reason Haymitch does anything worthwhile with the rest of his life, making her the ultimate culmination for any sort of character 'growth'. Lenore Dove fulfils the 'not like other girls' part of the trope by being Covey, inherently separating herself from the rest of the district, neither a poor seam worker or a snooty merchant, but something 'special' and 'different' and 'better'. She doesn't work in the mines or town- she plays the piano! She's pretty without makeup! She wears dresses but not the way Maysile wears dresses, she's not that shallow as to care about her looks! She'd never keep a canary in a cage like evil Maysilee (wait until she finds out what they do to canaries in the coal mines). Then she dies via her untimely gumdrop demise, and because Suzanne Collins spent the whole book establishing that she's perfect and Haymitch's entire world revolves around her, her death is the reason he devolves into alcoholism but she also ultimately becomes the reason he rejoins the rebellion so he can fulfil his promise to her. This cements the two things needed for a male character suffering from the dead wife trope: an explanation for their coldness and descent into substance abuse, and a reason for their later 'redemption'. Lenore Dove robs Haymitch of his agency, but she only ever existed as a plot device to further his story and growth (if you could call Haymitch's progressive character assassination in this book 'growth').

Personally anon, I find the way Suzanne Collins wrote Lenore Dove and the choices she made with her character to be misogynistic and deserving of criticism, criticism which I have contributed to. But disliking a character who only exists to further a man's story and who is nothing but a poorly written amalgamation of various misogynistic tropes is not misogynistic, it's just part of reading critically and not putting Suzanne Collin's work on a pedestal just because she's the one who wrote it. If Lenore Dove existed in a popular fanfic, the fandom would hate her. She'd be ripped to shreds. No one would be crying 'misogyny' then, but because Suzanne Collin's wrote her and she's vaguely similar in appearance to Lucy Grey, apparently Lenore Dove criticism is an unfathomable sin.

I would have LOVED Lenore Dove if she was written better. She had great potential, but the execution of her character was straight up horrendous and she ended up being insufferable to read and impossible to care about.

Misogyny is a huge issue in society and in media, including in fandom spaces. It's dangerous and in the real world it kills people. This is a pretty loaded thing to leave in someones inbox just because they don't like a character that you do. Maybe think about that. It's free to keep your mouth shut, just like it's free to block tags and keep scrolling if you're not mature enough to have an adult conversation about a piece of media or a character you enjoy and be able to disagree constructively. But don't drop into a strangers inbox, hiding behind the anonymous button, and leave bad faith comments like this. Either be open to a conversation, willing to explain your side and your viewpoints without resorting to insults or callouts, or just move on. Like I said, I'm only saying all this once and will not respond to any other anons like this, so don't waste your time typing them out.

For a story that tells you straight up on the first page that it's about the dangers of propaganda and groupthink a lot of this fandom takes one idea or one interpretation of a character and treats it like gospel that must be defended at all costs. Crying misogyny to anyone who dislikes Lenore Dove seems to like seems to be the weapon of choice of her defenders, and I'm begging y'all to not do that. There's a difference between disliking Lenore Dove because of how she's written and disliking Lenore Dove because she's a girl, and it's dangerous to conflate the two. Words mean things. Misogyny is a huge problem. If you're calling out misogyny, make sure you're actually calling out misogyny, otherwise the word is going to lose all meaning and it will be a lot harder to call out real misogyny when you see it.

Yes, I dislike Lenore Dove and always will. No, this does not make me a misogynist. Learn what misogyny actually is before you start saying stuff like this to strangers on the internet who just happened to dislike a character you enjoy.

[katnissdoesnotfollowback]

Countdown to Sunrise on the Reaping (SotR) book release 🔥

What's the burning questions about Haymitch you hope is answered in this book?

What are your predictions about Katniss' family or ancestry in SotR?

Were you shocked about Haymitch's life story in the chapter preview that's been released?

Any other thought about SotR?

Thank you :)

@curiousnonny

Hey there @curiousnonny! Haven't seen you in a while.

I don't know that I have any burning questions about Haymitch. I'm just super curious to see how he gets to where we already know he's going.

As for Katniss and her family, I'm actually hoping we don't see a lot of them. Maybe a brief mention of her father since he's Seam like Haymitch, and possibly something about her mother in the aftermath of Haymitch's games since Haymitch tells us in Catching Fire that they used to take whipping victims to Mrs. Everdeen, specifically to her, not her family. Maysilee might mention her friends in the lead up to the Games as well.

But to me, this is meant to be Haymitch's story and one of the missing pieces about the long simmering rebellion that finally ignites with Katniss. To spend too much time on her family will distract from Haymitch's story. However, given that Suzanne seemed to delight in dropping us reminders about the future in Ballads -- it's too early for katniss, the show's not over until the mockingjay sings, the brief glimpse we get of the baker in 12, etc -- I am fairly confident we'll see something of her parents and maybe even Peeta's.

That being said, I really don't want it confirmed that Katniss is somehow descended from the Covey, which I know is an unpopular opinion, but I stand by it. To have Katniss come from the Covey, to me, gives her too many "chosen one" vibes. She's supposed to be "a random girl plucked from the masses." Her deep connection to both District 12 itself and the way her connection grows to encompass her caring for all of Panem is pretty much the complete opposite of Lucy Gray's "I'm Covey, not District" stance and the way Snow uses that to differentiate her from everyone else for as long as it suits him to do so. Making Katniss Covey implies that only someone cut from the same cloth as Lucy Gray could bring down Snow. It diminishes the courage it took from the people of the districts, as well as the sacrifices and contributions they made to the overthrowing of the Capitol. Whereas, if Katniss is truly just a random girl, a part of those teeming masses, then her courage and acts of kindness serve to reflect those of her people, rather than setting her apart from them as some sort of "destiny."

I wouldn't say that I was shocked by what's already been revealed. We already knew that Haymitch's dad was likely already dead by the time he went into the Games because when he lists the people who were dead two weeks after he was crowned, Haymitch only mentions his mother, his brother, and his girl. I was surprised by the mention of him going into the woods "for work" in the first excerpt, but given the reference to Hattie (his "boss"?) and "the bottle" in the the second excerpt, my theory is that Hattie is his generation's Ripper. In other words, I think Haymitch works for someone who has a still out in the woods, making alcohol.

Anyway, thanks for the ask!

<3 kdnfb

[forgottenelegies]

GOT MY TICKET TO THE MASQUERADE !

Or, an event starter call. Capping at three but I'm willing to be slightly flexible on that if you wish! I'm very much game to write unconnected or plotted starters, but if you want a more personalised one, feel free to like this and I'll message you, or you can hmu!

SANSA STARK - attending with a blind date.

(4/4) ~ Romeo , A-Xiang, Robb, Myrcella

Despite having a pretty dreadful run of it in Westeros, Sansa's signed up to have a blind date - looking forward to having some company for the evening, and to dip her feet into enjoying the city more. She'll be at the heart of the ball, embracing the opportunity to dance and enjoy an utterly enchanting evening - it's the sort of evening that she used to always dream of as a sweet summer child, before it all got tainted with all that went down in King's Landing.

CASSANDRA - attending solo.

(3/3) ~ Shine, Aelin, Kell

Cassandra is very much planning on remaining on the fringes of this event. She always tried to avoid any functions at home in Troy, never finding herself able to quite fit into them so well as the rest of the family. The main area will probably be a little much for her so she will likely be found wandering through the exhibits and finding a calm space there. Probably will be slightly on edge also, never trusting it entirely when an evening seems to be going so well. If encouraged enough, she'd probably begrudgingly enjoy the feeling of at least one dance, though, getting to loosen her inhibitions for once.

IRIS WHITTLE - attending with a blind date.

(2/3) ~ Jester, Tyrell

Attending with a blind date, Iris will be looking forward to the general party vibe of it, having heard tales of numerous balls back home but having never attended one herself. However, she will also be spending too much time dragging her date and anyone she meets there to look around the various galleries to soak up the varying styles of art, spending too long there. As an artist herself, of the pre-Raphaelite vein, she'll also be trying to use the evening for artistic inspiration, trying out of some live drawing whilst there.

EURYDICE - attending solo.

(3/3) ~ Katniss Everdeen, Evelyn O'Connell, Xie Lian , Jules

Being very new to the city, Eurydice is just going to be taking it all in, adjusting to it and all the splendour on offer that evening - aka, spending half her time pilfering food when she can, not accustomed to her belly feeling so full and so freely able to feed itself. If anything, though, she will be feeling a touch suspicious of it all, not wanting to listen to the false promises of a night like that, till she drinks enough to fully relax into the evening. Though attending alone, she'll tentatively want to get a little more involved with it all, trying enjoying a dance or two.

HELLY RIGGS - attending with a blind date.

(3/3) ~ James Norrington, Laura Palmer, Tony

Despite having initially considered not attending, Helly eventually decided to not only attend, but to go the whole hog and sign up for a blind date. Attending an event like this is unfamiliar territory for her, but there'll be some muscle memory in it that will surprise her as she somehow manages to go through the motions smoothly. Which in turn will rather irritate her, as it'll very much be an outie trait seeping through (outie = Severance language I really need to write about in an intro). Ultimately, having spent too much of her brief life battling it out, she wants to grasp the evening in two hands and enjoy as herself - though also probing further into the city.

MAYSILEE DONNER - attending solo.

(3/3) ~ Louie, Daken, Lucy Gray

Maysilee, growing up back in 12, always felt a green smear of envy and love towards the Capitol; naturally, like so many, she loathed them, but there was a part of her that so admired their lifestyle, and that wanted to be like them almost. Being of the merchant class, she always thought that she was a cut above those in her district. Even if actually being reaped for the Games changed her perspective slightly, some of her traits from home will be coming out a little as she enjoys the chance to act Capitol, even just for one night. At the heart of it, though, she's just a girl excited to really throw herself into the evening - some of her behaviour has always been a defence mechanism, seeming stuck-up as she preferred to keep to a close circle, not being too wonderful with people. So, she'll be seeming a little stiff and contained, whilst actually wanting to just make the most of the night.

EFFY STONEM - attending solo.

(3/3) ~ Beetlejuice, Arnold Novak, Jake Fitzgerald

The idea of a masquerade undoubtedly entices Effy, and she will be sure to take the time to enjoy all that is happening in the courtyard, playing a role there for a time. However, as the night progresses, she'll end up sneaking off to the other areas of the museum, probably some places she shouldn't be ending up in. Most likely here she'll be taking whatever drugs she can get her hands on, alongside necking whatever she can from the bar. Eventually as the night latens, she'll head back to dancing if there's less formal dancing occurring.

.

[cheriecoke]

i haven‘t finished sotr yet but i saw this earlier on my fyp and thought you might like to see: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNdFHWUko/

suzanne is v deliberate about the things she includes and i think that combined with her political mind is part of what makes the series so interesting to follow, then again somtimes you just don‘t vibe with characters/a ship lol i‘m not rly sure yet where i fall with haymitch and lenore!

ahh thank you for sharing!! this creator raises lots of good points, and i agree with most of it!! i do hope my post isn't coming off as being anti katniss/peeta and the dynamics of snow/lucy gray. bc i think all other thg relationships are great and well-written! i just find it interesting that in the past, many critiques of the series have centered around the romantic plot lines, yet people are SO defensive of haymitch/lenore dove — valid criticism of them has not been met kindly lol. i guess i just don’t get it because, personally, the romance did little to draw me in :/ i think there isn’t really much depth to it that we don’t get elsewhere. i also think suzanne went out of her way to make a point not to ship maysilee or effie with haymitch, but i finished the novel thinking yeah … either of them with haymitch would’ve been 100x more interesting.

also i just don’t really understand why people feel the need to reject others’ thoughts or to defend this pairing so intensely. there’s a little bit of a weird “oh if you don’t like haydove ur like the capitol” going around lmfao. for me personally, there’s a bit too much over-explaining in this novel . we’re constantly told this IS a book about PROPAGANDA , and we’re constantly told haymitch loves lenore dove — i think it just left little room for the romance to speak for itself. perhaps it is due to the length and the amount of things happening, but yeah :( unfortunately i think the message would’ve been stronger for me without this love story. i understand her choices are intentional and i see why she made some choices she did, i just personally found some choices to be poor and unnecessary. but that’s just my humble opinion as a reader.

idk. i hope the film will give me a fresh perspective and i can come back to the book later, because rn, im very torn on how i feel. maybe i’m just bitter bc haymitch is my favorite and this felt pretty far from what i was expecting. but it’s okay, i’m probably not the target audience anymore, and it doesn’t have to change how i view him from the original trilogy! i just wish many would be more open to a conversation instead of ignoring any critiques.

but thank you for sharing :) i appreciate this insight, and i hope you enjoy the rest of the book!!!

[lemonluvgirl]

Please sort The Hunger Games characters into HoGwaRtS Houses :

For reference (according wikia)

Hufflepuff : Loyalty and hard working

Gryffindor : Bravery and chivalry

Ravenclaw : Wit and learning

Slytherin : Cunning and ambition

You can include as many characters as you want/can.

And you can give a reason why do you sort that character into that house.

Thank you so much 😊

PS : this is just for fun, if you don't like HP or THG, just ignore this ask 🔥

@curiousnonny

I actually do like Harry Potter :) and I love the Hunger Games, so I would be happy to participate!

Ok, so I guess I'll start with the characters in the order they appear:

Katniss-Gyrrifindor because she's just got that brave, pure hearted, heroine vibe. The only other house I could see her in would be Hufflepuff, maybe. But then again I think Katniss' foremost trait is bravery, beyond even her loyalty or her hard working nature. Also that whole chivalry thing, if I tweak the idea so that it applies in Katniss' case, I would say that Katniss does have a lot of qualities of the original idea of chivalry. Because the concept of chivalry was developed in the middle ages, as a code of honor for knights to follow. And one of the classic codes of honor was to protect the weak, which Katniss OBVIOUSLY excels at.

Prim-has to be Hufflepuff because she's a classic hufflepuff. She's constantly loyal to Katniss, even when Katniss pulls away from everyone and doesn't explain what she's going through. Also she was selected for the doctor program in D13 when she was just fourteen years old. That girl was HARDWORKING. There's no doubt about it. She's a super hufflepuff.

Gale-I would actually sort him into Ravenclaw, even though he does have a good amount of ambition. He could be Sytherin, especially in the last novel. But I'm working off the idea that the hat sorts people at a young age, before things like war and hardship change them. I always saw his inherent nature as being someone who seeks and searches for knowledge and freedom. I think a lot of his resentment came from the oppression he was born under and the lack of opportunities for betterment. I feel like he would thrive in Ravenclaw.

Effie-I think would be Ravenclaw or Slytherin. She's smart, (she has a specialized degree in architecture) and ambitious so either one would do for her.

Haymitch I would sort into Gryffindor. Definitely. Because in his youth he was extremely brave, (his behavior during his Quarter Quell was pretty admirable, especially in reference to Maysilee Donner) (I would still argue he's brave in his old age, I mean he was willing to go back into the Games during the Quarter Quell to save Peeta's life) and he does some seriously chivalrous things in the books as Katniss and Peeta's mentor. He doesn't allow the Capitol doctors to surgically enhance Katniss after her and Peeta's games (they wanted to give her fake boobs). He tries to protect Katniss and Peeta from the horrors and debaucherie of the Capitol.

Finnick - Gryffindor as well. He's very brave, and despite all he's been through he is actually a chivalrous person. He is one of Peeta's best protectors and friends throughout Mockingjay. He seems to me like a man of action, a lot like Katniss. Jump in feet first and think about the consequences later. All bravery and noble intentions.

Johanna- I'm going Slytherin because it feels like a seriously good fit for her. She's be so happy there. She'd rule the roost quite easily I think.

Peeta- I saved the best for last because, well, its Peeta hello. Anyways, I hope no one vilifies me for this but I honestly think Peeta fits into Slytherin quite nicely. I like how one professor who wrote an explaination of his character described him. He said Peeta was a renaissance man. He is a person with talents and areas of knowledge (painting, baking, speaking to large crowds), he is worldly, more so than Katniss. He automatically figures out the other tributes strategy that puts Katniss off her game before the Quarter Quell (the whole making her uncomfortable and teasing her because she's pure thing). He also is a very good liar, and is great at deception. Like seriously, even Katniss says so in Catching Fire. And let's not forget his subtle manipulations of the audience and of other characters all throughout the books. "She came here with me." "We're madly in love, so feel free to kiss me at any time." "If it weren't for the baby" "Katniss isn't aware of how the rebels are using her image" etc. etc. So he's remarkably cunning. And I also think he's pretty ambitious. He went into the Hunger Games with a plan. To join the FREAKING Careers as a false flag, to gain their trust and then ultimately betray them, in order to save Katniss. The dude is a strategist. But he also has a damn heart of gold. Like he uses his powers for good, not evil and wow that's so hot to me.

But anyways enough of me thirsting over Peeta. Again all these house sorting decisions are all just MY OPINIONS. So nobody come after me because of this Hypothetical situation.

But this was fun <3