#she's also the only one who tried with steph. altho she was also too busy and impatient to do a lot

[duketectivecomics]

Hey I was wondering if you know the official order of bruce gaining all the kids including harper, Barbara, and stephanie? I know its Dick, Jason, Tim, and Damian but where does the other 3 and duke and cass fall in? Tia!!

So I’m gonna assume that you mean the order in which they get adopted, since finding First Appearances is one of the easier things to google for any character. (Getting First Appearance issues afterall is part of the reason some comics retain their value, so it’s usually well documented when a character first shows up. Side note: DCUguide is an excellent resource if you’re looking to comb through appearances for characters, although I’d also recommend asking for reading lists from other fans, since usually those have been curated down to essential storylines only)

I tried to provide actual issue #s where I could, but a lot of the time in comics, it’s usually something that’s dropped or hinted around or casually mentioned rather than outright boldly stated.

Also some of these characters span DECADES and their histories change depending on continuity. So I tried to account for that where I could.

But also canon is fake and everyone in fandom cherry-picks anyways so yknow. Keep THAT in mind too.

Before we dive into this, I wanna have a quick convo on what Legal Guardianship vs Adoption is.

While guardianship includes some of the same responsibilities as adoption, it also comes with a few key differences, such as allowing any living parents (also possibly any living relatives) to contest the guardianship. Adoption would make the child fully and solely the potential parent��s responsibility, and would nullify any legal ‘say’ that the biological parents may have. Also of note, is that  guardianship does not allow the child in question a claim to inheritance unless the guardian specifically wills it to them, as there is again, a bit more of distance that is placed between the child and guardian, as more of a mentorship is expected to take hold. One way to look at it is that adoption is permanent (& usually a longer drawn out process bc of that), while guardianship can be more legally flexible.

With that out of the way, let’s start~

Dick: pre-flashpoint/52, it’s stated often that Dick was actually Bruce’s ward, that Bruce has legal guardianship over Dick. I know this is a nitpick and doesn’t matter bc it’s usually retconned/ignored in favor of Dick being adopted. But I think it’s a fascinating point of potential contention nonetheless. especially given the historical reason, that it was absolutely unheard of at the time for a single man to adopt a child, but no one would bat at eye if he was taking Dick in out of a sense of altruism & duty. Contract this with decades later, when he DOES appear to adopt Jason outright, which puts some friction in place between Dick & Bruce. and well, you’ve got a whole story & conflict to explore right there.

Barbara: Usually dons the Batgirl cowl after Dick becomes Robin (the only exception to that was The Batman (2004) cartoon and it was absolutely galaxy brain of them honestly) She has her own Dad though (idk if y’all know him? Jim Gordon? Yknow? The Commissioner?) so she doesn’t get adopted. She’s considered a core batfam member mostly in the sense that she’s been there so long and esp as she makes herself absolutely essential when she becomes Oracle. She has never, and will likely never be adopted by Bruce (bc again. W h e n is that gonna come up? When Jim dies? L m f a o)

Jason: pre-crisis it’s assumed from the go I guess? I could only find slight confirmation and ended up finding more info that there was a custody battle and that Bruce would won Jason back officially in Detective Comics #548. post-crisis, Jason’s history is redone, though & I remember his adoption being touched on, but could not for the life of me find a particular issue. N52/Rebirth it’s simply assumed from the go as far as I’m aware.

Tim: Batman #654. This was after his father died, though he’d been Robin at this point for at least a decade. For n52/Rebirth as far as I can tell he’s also been outright adopted by Bruce (though I think he’s parents were still alive but in Witness Protection? Idk. I haven’t read at all for Tim’s history there so take that with a heavy grain of salt)

Steph: another one who is not adopted (Crystal Brown is very much alive and taking care of Steph (barring the time Leslie Thompkins squirreled her away after faking Stephs death BUT)) She does show up pretty soon on Tim’s tail when he starts as Robin. Again, she’s considered a staple of the family because of how long she’s been involved with them. I like to think of her like Kimmy in Full House. She’s a Good Friend who’s Constantly Showing Up and is one of the family through mutual agreement on everyone’s part.

Cass: Batgirl (2008) #6, though like Tim, Cass had been Batgirl for nearly a decade at that point in continuity. She’s shown and stated many times that she considers Bruce a father/father figure and likewise that Babs, who had been mentoring her, was the closest she has to a mother. In n52/Rebirth, I have yet to see or hear about official adoption for her, but again. We usually ignore canon on that part anyways. I mean they made her into Orphan so uhhhh. Not super great yknow?

Damian: since he is biologically Bruce’s, it’s never really addressed as far as I’m aware (I have yet to read Damian’s appearances Altho he’s next on my Robin list). I personally think it’d be interesting to explore the fact that he was likely born outside of the country and what that means for Bruce gaining legal custody & whether or not Talia would contest that? I’m sure there’s probably SOME thinkpieces about it out there, but I’ll search for them on my own time eventually

And now we’re getting to *drum roll* Harper and Duke!

Harper: her appearances are mostly kept to the n52 runs, though with Tynion returning to Detective, it’s likely she’s coming back into Rebirth soon. She’s a unique case where, due to her abusive home life, she emancipated herself and took her brother, Cullen, with her. Neither she nor her brother were adopted by Bruce, and as far as I’m aware/understand, they’re fine with it that way. I know Stephanie was living with them at some point (it’s dropped in Batman & Robin: Eternal at least?), so I certainly think it would have been nice if DC also brought them into the fold like Steph. Just a couple of kids who are Really Good Friends with the family and continue to insert themselves in batfam business lmao

Duke: I actually addressed this fairly recently here! Duke’s guardianship (bc like Dick, Duke is not outright adopted by Bruce, likely to afford Duke’s parents the opportunity to regain custody should they recover from Joker’s toxin) its a little more up in the air at this point in Batman & The Outsiders. Since Bruce is very clearly taking both him and Cass away on globetrotting adventures. It would make things EASIER ofc if he is under Bruce’s guardianship. But given that it’s not really addressed, it’s led most of fandom to simply assume it instead. And really? Considering that DC themselves probably doesn’t realize that they’ve written themselves into this corner, it probably won’t be fully addressed or recognized anyways.

So to answer your first question actually: Babs, Steph, and Harper? Not adopted, likely never will be, but they ARE interspersed fairly regularly in the line-up. Everyone else? Varying degrees of being under Bruce’s guardianship if not outright adopted.

We’re all happy that they’re here, though!!! And we love and appreciate them ALL.

[ace2light]

felt so down..

i wanted to talk to people so badly. by people, i meant those whom i am close with. super close with, esp him. i do have ppl whom are extremely close to me. but i dont dare to approach them due to as follows: 

poon: he is with his friends, he wont have the time to entertain me also, well, there were times i couldnt control myself and texted him, i got a single word ‘ok’, i know where i stand, i backed off. i switched off my phone literally. idw to have more disappointment in my alrdy bad and sad mood. rather than unknowingly text him and anticipate he would at least ask how i am. i rather not meet with such a disappointment. well if he knows that i am really trying my best to cope with my feelings and thoughts, he would auto read this without me telling him. cos if i dont spam him, i go to insta, if i dont go to insta, i come to tumblr. these are the ways i penned down how i feel and what i think when there is no one to talk to me, no one whom i can chat with. 

steph: in gasglow, i dont want her to be burden with my issues. she will know when she returns when we catch up anws. 

chanel and jiawen: we are drifting apart. they are the ppl i joke ard with but no longer the ones whom i find to rant about. as i always hang out with poon, i dw them to feel i treat bf more than i treat my bff. i dont want them ti feel they are spare tyre. 

sheena and sam: i scared i make them feel overwhelm with my issues. plus sheena is no coping well alrdy, idw to add to her problems. 

mum: she no longer is my close listening ears. i nvr tell her many things, in fact, i nvr say much about myself anymore, except rant about dad to her. other than that, nth. idw her to worry about me, esp my studies. i didnt tell her i wasnt coping well in school lately also. she’s too busy dealing with my dad anws. 

dylan: he is a gd friend, but then i am not comfy telling him too many things. 

xx: i lose the position to rant to him. before i got into a relationship, he was always there when i was feeling down. be it normal classes whereby i am feeling sad or stress, he will buy me oreo (altho he say his house got unlimited supplies, so many times, he think i believe meh). he can chat with me for the entire night when i was feeling so lost about some issues in the past. he takes care of me like a little sis. often he is the one who can notice i am sad and try ways to make me happy. i always treated him as my bro. he is like my younger/older bro. because of many reasons, i distant myself from him. i dont want poon to be jelly about xx and me, neither do i want to make xx feel sad, so the best way is to distant from him. 

it has been long since i felt like cutting myself. thankfully that feeling happens when i was on a cab, i have no access to pen knife. if not idk what would happen to myself. honestly, i just wanna just rot in bed tmr, i dont feel like meeting anyone, but cos i promise alrdy, i have to appear.. 

it is getting worst, i overthink. i overthink in my sleep also. idw to. idk how to tell my brain to gimme a break. i really wanna break free from overthinking. i even woke up from a worst case scenario about poon me and my parents. i was awaken by this dream today, it scares me but i didnt share with him. 

what i feel now. towards poon. yes, i am his gf. apart from saying ‘i love u’, he technically did nth thru out the entire day i was down. i understand that he is with his friend. but i am feeling too low to even be considerate about it. at least, talk to me abit? make me feel a bit btr instead of just ‘i love u’? i know u love me and you mean it, but in times of this, too much of such phrases makes me feel i am not impt. i am just a person whom you have to say ‘i love u’ to a few times a day. for so long, i havent felt so lonely on terms of texting. i am a heavy texter to ppl whom i am comfortable in. he is one of them. i always felt a bit sad that when i am awake, he is asleep, why cant fate let him have a normal sleeping time? i really wish he was at least awake to text me when i am on my way to school or in school.. yes, he blame me that i didnt call him up or wake him up, but certain things, it doesnt comes from me, it takes his effort, not just mine. i mean if a person is asleep, what for wake him up for a casual chat esp when the reason is i am bored? this is so unreasonable. 

just ytd issue. btn poon and me. when i started to put in more trust in him, he shakes it again. i trusted him to come meet me with monster also, in fact, i anticipated that, that was the encouragement i told myself, the only reason that keep me awake. the thought of my bf visiting me and delivering a drink i needed so badly that day. end up, he did come (make me feel i am his priority but i was guilty). before that, i was comtrolling my temper not to rage at him. honestly, what does he mean. well if i was in his shoes, it is very simple. come to the gf then meet his friends afterwards. cos he promise the gf to come alrdy, but didnt promise the gf to wait for her after her test. what was promise first should be carried out, what is so hard about it? for me, personally, whoever i made a promise with first, i go with the promise first. unless that person is fking impt to me, which is him, whenever he wants to meet last minute, i have to push some of my plans away just to meet him. i really hope he knows it is hard for me to lie all the time, i dont have so much lies in me to hide from my parents all the time. and in order to make a lie, i have plan ahead, if it is so last minute, i cant think of a perfect reason to lie. but he doesnt get it? he seems to take it for granted that i can meet him any time sometimes, that is what i feel. sometimes, i have to get back home early cos i cnt go home too late. one is my fears of going home alone late at night, second is i cant see shit at night, three my mum is worried for me too. one more thing, shouldnt he pull me into the conversation instead of asking me to try on my own? isnt it easier for him to pull me into a conversation with his friends rather than i awkwardly ask them weird qns? i just hate it when he force me to talk, and if i dont, he would get upset, like srsly, i didnt talk for a reason okay. 

well i do appreciate his efforts, waking up before i go and caring for me. but if he’s gonna ignore me or forget about me when he is with his friends, i rather he dont show me i am his priority. cos it is fking hard to deal with when he isnt there to reply me all the time, reply as in a continuous conversation not a single word of trying to brush me off, yes, it might be a form of acknowledgement of it to me. but then, if i rant to him, do i really need an acknowledgement? hmm, i doubt so. i hate spamming him my feelings my thoughts cos he reads but dont reply me one by one, i hate that. if i tell you my feelings and thoughts fking reply, rants, at least tell me sth instead of a word ‘i reply later cos i chatting or gaming with my friends’ is still btr than a word, but ofc, make sure he replies afterwards lah, if not the words has no meaning. 

it is so hard to not text a person whom you text all the time a day. it is not i didnt wanna text, i am so fking tired and disappoointed at the nonchalant, okay not even nonchalant reply, just a word answer seems like i am disturbing him and brushing me off. i tried to text him, but if i am gonna get a word, what for i continue, sometimes it is not i didnt wanna spam. it’s just i know he wont reply to every single thing, so i am avoiding that disappointment. it takes two hands to clap, he want me to do this, then prove to me, it is worth it. like spamming, you want me to spam, then reply everything lah, i know i say b4 he need not necessarily reply everything but who doesnt want to be replied, if not send for what? 

he always wanted me to text him ‘i want him now’, why would i text a person asleep that? does he knows how much courage it takes for me to ask for things i want?  for almost 10 years, i havent been living for myself, i live for others, i nvr really requested a lot of things. idk how and i fear rejections, imagine mustering tons of courage then got rejected. hell no am i gonna make myself suffer that. best eg, first time i asked him to bring me sth that is extremely out of his way for me, he came but didnt fulfil the things i want. seeing him makes me not angry but the sadness doesnt disappear. 

i am like this now cos i want him to talk to me, even if it is for 2 mins, show that he tries to understand how i feel now. but nah, nope, i had enough of dissapointment today. i aint gonna on my phone until tmr. if he is late for tmr, i am so gonna ignore him for a day. 

as much as i wanna blame him for having fun and forgot about me. but i cnt. 

enough of him.

what cause me so sad and down. it is like i am awake but i aint doing my work. i dont have the energy to do so. i am so tired of everything. 

academic failure. is extremely strong when i failed my CT. 

stress. i m dealing with so many in schools but no one exactly knows what i am going thru. 

home: i have to smile to maintain i am okay feels. one not to let my parents worry and not to anger them. 

friends: i dgaf about them alrdy. i dont have the mood to deal with them. 

him: i am just idk, extremely sad and dissapointed about it, how he acts/ treats me these 2 days, esp today. 

wtv happens next, tonight, i wont gurantee. whether i harm myself or not. i cant be sure. controlling it is so hard. death to me aint scary, what i am scared of is the sadness ppl felt if i harm myself. 

dont blame me to disappear. if he shown more effort, i wouldn't have disappeared due to sadness and disappointment. actually, would he even know i disappear? 

or maybe, i havent been okay, cos i felt neglected by him... apart from my parents, only one more person can me feel so dead when i am alrdy unhappy, which worsen my sadness. 

IF HE HAPPENS TO FIND TILL HERE, I SALUTE HIM COS I DONT EXPECT HIM AT ALL. which implies he knows how to find me when i dissapear.