#salem's one scary mom xd

[astoria00]

Salem and Cinder's connection is deeper than we think

So, in another post I talked about the possibility of Salem having shared some of her magic with Cinder to keep her alive. Now, I don't want to entirely debunk my other theory, but maybe what Salem shared with Cinder wasn't so much her magic, but a part of her aura/soul. And having a part of someone who is literally immortal attached to them...tends to keep one alive as well.

The show even offers us possible facts that could strengthen this theory. So for the sake of this argument I will go through them chronologically, starting by vol 3 episode 7, our very first Cinder flashback episode.

Besides Cinder's semblance (yes, I still attribute those explosions to her semblance), which resembles Salem's own signil eerily enough on certain occasions and which she could use way before obtaining the Fall Maiden's power, there is a short little dialogue I want to point out:

“The huntsman severed the connection before it was complete.

Yes...it's an emptiness. It burns...like hunger... I like it.

Yes...I will claim what is ours.

Thank you.“

That whole scene was, of course, a black screen scene and for a while I had just assumed Cinder would talk to Salem via a scroll or this seer grimm, but let's be real. Salem doesn't strike me as someone who owns a scroll and Cinder was definitely not talking to Watts or Tyrian here. A seer grimm might be possible, but...it depends on where Cinder was staying at that time and how many of these type of grimm Salem even has. So yes, it's still possible for this to be a one-sided phone call of sorts, but it could also be our first clue for Cinder's and Salem's connection. This whole conversation could have been telepathic...in a sense.

But let's look at another scene. In vol 3 episode 10, we see Emerald, Mercury and Cinder on the rooftop with the latter telling Mercury to focus on the Atleasian knights. When he states he will, Cinder adds this little tidbit.

“Good, continue the broadcast until the end.

(Ground/rooftop shaking)

And do not miss what happens next.“

This is of course referring to the giant grimm dragon breaking from the mountain. Now, Salem could have told Cinder about it and how to get it to emerge, but this shaking could have been anything really. Maybe one of the elephant grimm trampled over a house and it crashed into another, or an explosion caused a little quake in its aftermath. So Cinder knowing exactly what the shaking meant was pretty...specific and well timed.

But it gets even more interesting in vol 3 episode 12 when the grimm dragon first lands on Beacon tower:

“Shh...this is your home now.“

Now, first of all, the dragon seems to know exactly where it has to go. It could be beacuse Salem ordered it to...but why would it look so grimmly at Cinder then, when he first spots her? Why would Cinder need to calm it down? And more importantly, Cinder CAN calm it down! Sure, she could have just said it because she felt like it, or she thought it could help, but the dragon literally reacted to her words, its growl even softened somewhat. And who else have we seen talking to grimm like this? Salem!

So what does all of this have to do with Cinder and Salem's soulbound connection? Well...let's first try to find out HOW they talk to grimm.

In all honesty, I haven't seen other people in Remnant who attempted to talk to grimm, nor were they mentioned (well maybe Merlot did, but we're not counting him XD). And how would they even understand one? They are soulless creatures, but...they are drawn to negative emotions. Which means they have a 'higher' empathic sense of sorts. We also know they are somewhat intelligent. So maybe Salem is able to communicate with them via that sense. Yes, we have seen her directly talk to some of them, but talking helps us visualize or feel certain things, so this might have been for her own or Cinder's benefit. And we should also keep in mind that the seer grimm gave his report...via his clicking noises...so...the trick behind that 'language' could be interpreting certain feelings and pictures that are send via that sense.

We haven't seen Ozpin being able to do the same, so it could be an ability Salem aquired after jumping into the fountain of the god of darkness.

Now, if Cinder is being able to communicate with grimm as well and Salem is the only other being in Remnant who is known to have this ability, it certainly could allude that it got shared when Salem attached a part of her soul to Cinder.

Also, if we look further at her fight with Pyrrha, the grimm dragon tries to help her somewhat and not once did Cinder look surprised by that. Not when it suddwnly flew away, nor when it changed its course to speed up back at them to crash into the dome of the tower.

So why did I talk about how communication with a grimm might work? Because I believe Cinder and Salem to be able to communicate on the same level, via that empathic sense.

But let's take a look at vol 4 where we actually see both of them interacting.

We have vol 4 episode 3 where Salem gives Cinder a 'control your new arm' lesson. What exactly is she saying there again?

“Do you feel it?

Don't fight it, girl.

It can sense your trepidation.

You must make it dread you!“

Trepidation...alright... How do you know that, Salem? Cinder doesn't look frightened at that scene at all, a bit uncomfortable and probably in pain, but I wouldn't have said she was afraid. So not only 'it' was able to sense Cinder's trepidation, Salem could as well it seemed. And if we watch a bit longer we get the whole :

“Did you kill Ozpin?“

A question Cinder has to answer all by herself, even though she clearly can't really talk at the moment. And why was that important for Salem? Because Cinder literally wouldn't be able to lie to Salem's face if they're in fact connected like this and it would also explain why Salem looked so pleased after she gets her answer. She doesn't question it, she simply believes her when she says yes. Furthermore, there is this moment where Salem raises her voice and slams her hands on the table...but Cinder doesn't even flinch, as if she already felt something like this would happen.

Speaking about lies. In vol 4 episode 11 we have another instance of...interesting phrasing from Salem:

“Enough!

I thought you were the girl that wanted power.

Did you lie to me?

Then stop holding back!“

Stop holding back? Well, to me it certainly looked like Cinder gave it her all, no holding back, just being tired because she clearly pushed herself very hard, so I ask again...how did Salem know that? She would only be able to make that point if she either already witnessed Cinder handling her powers and knows she can do better, which didn't seem to be the case with how frustrated Cinder got at the end, or like with her trepidation in ep 3, Salem was just able to feel it. Something else that stood out to me in that scene was Cinder's reaction to Salem's: Did you lie to me? She flinches. Not when Salem says it's 'Enough', not when she throws Cinder's desire for power back at her, no, she flinches when she is accused of lying. And if we go with their connection theory...she literally wouldn't be able to pull that off, because Salem would know it immediately...somewhat like a lie detector. So Salem asking her this, was kinda a dig at her that she couldn't.

If we keep focusing on Cinder here when Tyrian comes back and begs for forgiveness, she only looks at him for maybe a split second, before her attention is solely on Salem again. And Cinder seems to look almost uneasy....lost of sorts? But why would she? Tyrian is the one getting focused on by Salem for now. He is the one in trouble. So could it be, that Cinder actually picks up on Salem's 'emotions' again, as she may have in ep 3? If they do have this bond, then it probably goes both ways. So Cinder might get some puzzling or worrisome readings from Salem in that scene, and we know from vol 6 just how much Salem can repress her anger...well until she doesn't, but still XD

Another scene that might strengthen this theory happens in vol 5 episode 2, when Lionheart tells his report to Salem. After she gives her orders to all of them and ends the 'call' she immediately looks over to Cinder, as if she knows right away that something is troubling her.

“You are free to speak your mind.“

She even sounds somewhat amused and as we have already seen, this isn't the first time Salem is awefully intuned to Cinder's feelings.

There are a few other small things that I have found throughout the series, but these are the most interesting ones I think, so let me talk about how I even got this idea in the first place and let's jump straight into vol 6 now.

After we got our first episode with Cinder it was clear that she had woken up a month after the attack at Haven. And she immediately seemed to know what to do. Sure, a lot of people were saying she couldn't very well go back to Salem empty handed, and although I'm not really agreeing with that, even if that is the truth, what stops Cinder to contact Hazel and get where Ruby and co. are from him? Or Emerald and Mercury? What stops her from reaching out to them? Her scroll seems to work just fine. Is she aware of Salem wanting her to “toil in her isolation“?

When we got episode 4, Salem is indeed aware of Cinder being alive. A lot of people seem to believe the reason for that is Cinder's grimm arm. Personally I don't agree with that. Yes, Salem is the master of all grimm and can control them, but firstly, we don't know how much at once and at what length she can do that. Secondly, she probably is not able to connect to a soulless creature, not even mentioning having the ability to keep tabs on them. 'Talking' and controlling them? Sure. But being outright able to feel when one of them evaporates? That would mean she would be able to keep tabs on all the grimm over the world...and I don't think that's the case.

So Salem attaching a part of her own aura/soul to the girl she definitely needs to survive against all odds and keep somewhat control over her, does sound plausible to me. It would certainly explain her leniency towards the Fall Maiden and why she is not even questioning her loyalty once. It is hard to betray someone who you're directly tied to after all.

But then again, that's just me theorizing again. I could be proven wrong next episode, but hey, analyzing these things is fun XD

[fanfictionsrookie]

Noice

Salem and Cinder’s connection is deeper than we think

So, in another post I talked about the possibility of Salem having shared some of her magic with Cinder to keep her alive. Now, I don’t want to entirely debunk my other theory, but maybe what Salem shared with Cinder wasn’t so much her magic, but a part of her aura/soul. And having a part of someone who is literally immortal attached to them…tends to keep one alive as well.

The show even offers as possible facts that could strengthen this theory. So for the sake of this argument I will go through them chronologically, starting by vol 3 episode 7, our very first Cinder flashback episode.

Besides Cinder’s semblance (yes, I still attribute those explosions to her semblance), which resembles Salem’s own signil eerily enough on certain occasions and which she could use way before obtaining the Fall Maiden’s power, there is a short little dialogue I want to point out:

“The huntsman severed the connection before it was complete.

Yes…it’s an emptiness. It burns…like hunger… I like it.

Yes…I will claim what is ours.

Thank you.“

That whole scene was, of course, a black screen scene and for a while I had just assumed Cinder would talk to Salen via a scroll or this seer grimm, but let’s be real. Salem doesn’t strike me as someone who owns a scroll and Cinder was definitely not talking to Watts or Tyrian here. A seer grimm might be possible, but…it depends on where Cinder was staying at that time and how many of these type of grimm Salem even has. So yes, it’s still possible for this to be a one-sided phone call of sorts, but it could also be our first clue for Cinder’s and Salem’s connection. This whole conversation could have been telepathic…in a sense.

But let’s look at another scene. In vol 3 episode 10, we see Emerald, Mercury and Cinder on the rooftop with the latter telling Mercury to focus on the Atleasian knights. When he states he will, Cinder adds this little tidbit.

“Good, continue the broadcast until the end.

(Ground/rooftop shaking)

And do not miss what happens next.“

This is of course referring to the giant grimm dragon breaking from the mountain. Now, Salem could have told Cinder about it and how to get it to emerge, but this shaking could have been anything really. Maybe one of the elephant grimm trampled over a house and it crashed into another, or an explosion caused a little quake in its aftermath. So Cinder knowing exactly what the shaking meant was pretty…specific and well timed.

But it gets even more interesting in vol 3 episode 12 when the grimm dragon first lands on Beacon tower:

“Shh…this is your home now.“

Now, first of all, the dragon seems to know exactly where it has to go. It could be beacuse Salem ordered it to…but why would it look so grimmly at Cinder then, when he first spots her? Why would Cinder need to calm it down? And more importantly, Cinder CAN calm it down! Sure, she could have just said it because she felt like it, kr she thought it could help, but the dragon literally reacted to hr words, its growl even softened somewhat. And who else have we seen talking to grimm like this? Salem!

So what does all of this have to do with Cinder and Salem’s soulbound connection? Well…let’s first try to find out HOW they talk to grimm.

In all honesty, I haven’t seen other people in Remnant who attempted to talk to grimm, nor where they mentioned (well maybe Merlot did, but we’re not counting him XD). And how would they even understand one? They are soulless creatures, but…they are drawn to negative emotions. Which means they have a ‘higher’ empathic sense of sorts. We also know they are somewhat intelligent. So maybe Salem is able to communicate with them via that sense. Yes, we have seen her directly talk to some of them, but talking helps us visualize or feel certain things, so this might have been for her own or Cinder’s benefit. And we should also keep in mind that the seer grimm gave his report…via his clicking noises…so…the trick behind that 'language’ could be interpreting certain feelings and pictures that are send via that sense.

We haven’t seen Ozpin being able to do the same, so it could be an ability Salem aquired after jumping into the fountain of the god of darkness.

Now, if Cinder is being able to communicate with grimm as well and Salem is the only other being in Remnant who is known to have this ability, it certainly could allude that it got shared when Salem attached a part of her soul to Cinder.

Also, if we look further at her fight with Pyrrha, the grimm dragon tries to help her somewhat and not once did Cinder look surprised by that. Not when it suddwnly flew away, nor when it changed its course to speed up back at them to crash into the dome of the tower.

So why did I talk about how communication with a grimm might work? Because I believe Cinder and Salem to be able to communicate on the same level, via that empathic sense.

But let’s take a look at vol 4 where we actually see both of them interacting.

We have vol 4 episode 3 where Salem gives Cinder a 'control your new arm’ lesson. What exactly is she saying there again?

“Do you feel it?

Don’t fight it, girl.

It can sense your trepidation.

You must make it dread you!“

Trepidation…alright… How do you know that, Salem? Cinder doesn’t look frightened at that scene at all, a bit uncomfortable and probably in pain, but I wouldn’t have said she was afraid. So not only 'it’ was able to sense Cinder’s trepidation, Salem could as well it seemed. And if we watch a bit longer we get the whole :

“Did you kill Ozpin?“

A question Cinder has to answer all by herself, even though she clearly can’t really talk at the moment. And why was that important for Salem? Because Cinder literally wouldn’t be able to lie to Salem’s face if they’re in fact connected like this and it would also explain why Salem looked so pleased after she gets her answer. She doesn’t question it, she simply believes her when she says yes. Furthermore, there is this moment where Salem raises her voice and slams her hands on the table…but Cinder doesn’t even flinch, as if she already felt something like this would happen.

Speaking about lies. In vol 4 episode 11 we have another instance of…interesting phrasing from Salem:

“Enough!

I thought you were the girl that wanted power.

Did you lie to me?

Then stop holding back!“

Stop holding back? Well, to me it certainly looked like Cinder gave it her all, no holding back, just being tired because she clearly pushed herself very hard, so I ask again…how did Salem know that? She would only be able to make that point if she either already witnessed Cinder handling her powers and knows she can do better, which didn’t seem to be the case with how frustrated Cinder got at the end, or like with her trepidation in ep 3, Salem was just able to feel it. Something else that stood out to me in that scene was Cinder’s reaction to Salem’s: Did you lie to me? She flinches. Not when Salem says it’s 'Enough’, not when she throws Cinder’s desire for power back at her, no, she flinches when she is accused of lying. And if we go with their connection theory…she literally wouldn’t be able to pull that off, because Salem would know it immediately…somewhat like a lie detector. So Salem asking her this was kinda a dig at her that she couldn’t.

If we keep focusing on Cinder here when Tyrian comes back and begs for forgiveness, she only looks at him for maybe a split second, before her attention is solely on Salem again. And Cinder seems to look almost uneasy….lost of sorts? But why would she? Tyrian is the one getting focused on by Salem for now. He is the one in trouble. So could it be, that Cinder actually picks up on Salem’s 'emotions’ again, as she may have in ep 3? If they do have this bond, then it probably goes both ways. So Cinder might get some puzzling or worrisome readings from Salem in that scene, and we know from vol 6 just how much Salem can repress her anger…well until she doesn’t, but still XD

Another scene that might strengthen this theory happens in vol 5 episode 2, when Lionheart tells his report to Salem. After she gives her orders to all of them and ends the 'call’ she immediately looks over to Cinder, as if she knows right away that something is troubling her.

“You are free to speak your mind.“

She even sounds somewhat amused and as we have already seen, this isn’t rhe first time Salem is awefully intuned to Cinder’s feelings.

There are a few other small things that I have found throughout the series, but these are the most interesting ones I think, so let me talk about how I even got this idea in the first place and let’s jump straight into vol 6 now.

After we got our first episode with Cinder it was clear that she had woken up a month after the attack at Haven. And she immediately seemed to know what to do. Sure, a lot of people were saying she couldn’t very well go back to Salem empty handed, and although I’m not really agreeing with that, even if that is the truth, what stops Cinder to contact Hazel and get where Ruby and co. are from him? Or Emerald and Mercury? What stops her from reaching out to them? Her scroll seems to work just fine. Is she aware of Salem wanting her to “toil in her isolation“?

When we got episode 4, Salem is indeed aware of Cinder being alive. A lot of people seem to believe the reason for that is Cinder’s grimm arm. Personally I don’t agree with that. Yes, Salem is the master of all grimm and can control them, but firstly, we don’t know how much at once and at what length she can do that. Secondly, she probably is not able to connect to a soulless creature, not even mentioning having the ability to keep tabs on them. 'Talking’ and controlling them? Sure. But being outright able to feel when one of them evaporates? That would mean she would be able to keep tabs on all the grimm over the world…and I don’t think that’s the case.

So Salem attaching a part of her own aura/soul to the girl she definitely needs to survive against all odds and keep somewhat control over her, does sound plausible to me. It would certainly explain her leniency towards the Fall Maiden and why she is not even questioning her loyalty once. It is hard to betray someone who you’re directly tied to after all.

But then again, that’s just me theorizing again. I could be proven wrong next episode, but hey, analyzing these things is fun XD