#robb still makes me angry on cat's behalf when he acts like she's forgotten ned's death

[ladystoneboobs]

"So long as Theon Greyjoy sits in your father's seat with your brothers' blood on his hands, these other foes must wait," Catelyn told her son. "Your first duty is to defend your own people, win back Winterfell, and hang Theon in a crow's cage to die slowly. Or else put off that crown for good, Robb, for men will know that you are no true king at all." From the way Robb looked at her, she could tell that it had been a long while since anyone had dared speak to him so bluntly. -Catelyn II, aSoS

no, but the way that even in asos post-jaime release, catelyn's still the only one who can speak to robb so bluntly, with no pushback from him here (only a hint of defensiveness, but no assertion of kingly authority), but only bc she's urging him onto violent vengeance befitting a warrior king. the detoriation of their relationship had a lot to do with him being crowned and the reverse in power dynamics, but there was also a shift in messaging from catelyn. when they first reunited after ned's arrest, she wasn't happy about him leading the army but agreed it was too late to turn back, and furthermore, more importantly agreed that they had to go to war regardless as the only way to save their family, bluntly telling him victory on the field was the only way to do that and that if he lost they'd all die. afterwards, once ned was beyond rescue, she changed her tune to talk of peace to save her daughters. being a woman is not too much a dealbreaker in itself for robb or most of his vassals (see mormont women fighting in all robb's battles) but acting too soft, too much like a worried mother, and later treating the king himself as still a child to be protected, that's just going too far. a warzone is no place for a woman who can't fight and worse, can't even be gung-ho enough to support all her son's violence while worrying about the danger he's in and the plight of her other children.

"kings aren't supposed to have mothers" is a sword that cuts both ways against mother and royal teen son. a boy who comes into power at 15 is only a year away from westerosi coming of age, "almost a man grown", and so must prove his manhood accordingly from the start. a boy of that age should become a man upon his father's death, so a surviving parent still treating him as their child is surplus to requirements. more convenient if she could be politically dead too, fading into the background and not asserting herself too much as a mother to the teen ruler. by the standards of their society, not only is he ranked above her once coming into power but it's his job to protect her as manly head of the family, certainly not the other way around. by the time of asos, robb is officially a man grown at 16, but has also made his own softhearted mistakes. first, by releasing his buddy theon no strings attached (a choice i doubt those lords who fought against balon's first rebellion liked any more than catelyn did), and then, compounding the original theon-related mistake, marrying jeyne westerling at the cost of his military cause after falling into her bed in his grief over theon's alleged murders of bran and rickon. he can publicly pardon his mother's release of jaime as a magnanimous king understanding a mother's womanly softness, but has all the more reason to assert his own manly strength once again. that prick lord karstark was the only one actually expecting the king to punish his own mother for treason, but most of the other lords, like the greatjon umber, could only forgive her in a patronizing way. "It was a mother's folly. Women are made that way." surely, they'd all think she had just proved they were right to dismiss her talk of peace before the greatjon made robb king, and surely they'd believe she'd fully proven she was not fit to be a trusted adviser after ned's death. what kind of weak mama's boy would still listen to a hysterical, grieving mother who cared more about her children's safety than winning the war? after making his own unwise choices driven by love, robb could not be contaminated by catelyn's. the king who lost the north had to lose his mother at his side too to compensate. kill the always respectful son looking to his mother for answers to let the king be born, or something.