#river's idv deductions

[fishandships]

can i just. bring the idv fandom's attention to the Perez family in Ashes of Memory. because like what is happening.

we have the version from the portrait Detective "Orpheus" finds in the original OP (is that unavailable now? has it been retconned?) in which we see two people in typical ranger uniforms alongside "Orpheus" and the couple he claims are his parents, but the ranger's faces (as well as that of young "Orpheus") appear to have been deliberately smashed so we can't see them:

since we know from Bane's deduction route that both his parents were rangers and he followed in their footsteps to work for the same family in the same forest, it is reasonable to assume that the obscured individuals are Bane's parents.

but then we see a version of this image, unobscured, that Alice finds, but in this version the rangers are instead dressed in the typical attire of a farmer and a maid:

(i have a whole other rant about my confusion over the differences in these two portraits btw)

but then in the story "Orpheus" tells Alice about the deaths of his parents, he refers to this individual as "the forest ranger my parents hired":

except that he's dressed in stereotypical farmer gear, complete with pitchfork? as in, this is the same farmer from the family portrait Alice found? interestingly, "Orpheus" implies that this was the only forest ranger (farmer????) employed by his parents at the time, which according to the timeline should mean that this is Bane, not his father.

obviously "Orpheus" is lying because IF this is Bane (as opposed to his father) then first of all,

BUT IMPORTANTLY, BANE ABSOLUTELY FUCKING DID NOT "COLLUDE WITH BANDITS" BECAUSE WE KNOW THOSE WERE THE SAME PEOPLE WHO BUTCHERED HIS PET DEER AND TORTURED HIM AND LEFT HIM FOR DEAD. i think the FUCK he did not "collude" with them. and "Orpheus" should certainly have known that, since Bane and Burke's character day letters and the Darkwoods Forest map itself all show that Bane dearly loved "Orpheus" and Alice when they were children and would have absolutely no reason to risk harm coming to them.

so my questions come down to,

why did the figures in the portrait change from two rangers to a farmer and a maid?

was the individual who betrayed "Orpheus"' family really a forest ranger as "Orpheus" claimed, or does he remember a farmer in contradiction to what he's saying to show he's lying?

was the farmer Bane's father or even a different individual who worked for that family, but "Orpheus" lies and blames the ranger for reasons we don't know?

finally, is the figure "Orpheus" remembers actually Bane? or is the "forest ranger", ie Bane, separate from the individual "Orpheus" is remembering, but "Orpheus" is still blaming Bane for unknown reasons?

@ Netease PLEASE i need answers ;3;

[dreamsyscreamsy]

my friends as idv characters

sua: name: the tech artist type: decode moves: 1. "The Sigil" can draw a sigil which will increase decoding speed by 10% for everyone within a 30 meter radius. has a 30 second cooldown. 2. "Slow" drawing her entire life has made her physically weak, she's 10% slower when she hasn't drawn a sigil vaulting speed is 5% slower. 3. "Or fast?" drawing a sigil increases running speed by 2%, can be stacked twice looks: short + curly brown hair, black eyes, wears an outfit similar to modern casual, mostly a dark hoodie and a dark long skirt. probably wears a beanie & glasses personality: snarky and sarcastic, very witty likes the teleporter and is in a relationship with the orange

river: name: the comedian type: containment/assist moves: 1. "Jokes" can pull out a microphone and tell jokes, hunters nearby will be drawn to it and listen, hunters who listen are stunned for 5 seconds, has a 40 second cooldown. 2. "I'm funny, right?" survivors who listen to jokes get their speed increased by 3x for 5 seconds, and have a permanent vault speed increase by 2x. 3. "Woops!" hes not very attentive, cipher deductions increased by 30%. looks: shorter with brown hair and a mask covering his eyes. wears 90s vintage clothing, sweater and those old brown loafers. you know the kind personality: funny, but pretty depressing when not putting on a mask. likes the teleporter and the wind spirit.

fruit: name: the sacrifice type: rescue/assist moves: 1. "The True Sacrifice" when a survivor is downed or placed on a chair, the sacrifice has an option to take the survivors place. this move is given once, but can be charged being downed/in a chair. has a 40 second cooldown 2. "Worrisome" the sacrifice is always worried about her teammates, running, decoding, and vaulting speed is decreased by 20% until she takes place of one of her downed teammates. 3. "I see you!" Because of her hyper-awareness, the sacrifice can see all of her teammates and the hunters place for 5 seconds in the beginning of a match. looks: long black hair and a nice black dress, wears a black veil that hides her face (think of donna from re8) personality: incredibly sweet and kindhearted, likes most people and vice versa, although she can come off as very naive. is in a relationship with the tech artist.

jay: name: the chef type: assist moves: 1. Knife Skill: Allows the Chef to throw the knife at the hunter, if target has been hit, stuns them for 3 seconds Skill hold: when holding the skill, you’re able to take aim and throw it, if hit in critical spots, heart or head, stuns target for 5 seconds Skill hold: when knife is thrown at a survivor tied to a balloon, the survivor is dropped. has a 10 second cooldown Passive: when target is hit, knife will drop down on the ground and will be able to be picked up and used again 2. "Impatient" the chef is a man of short-patience. decodes 10% faster but increases calibrations by 20% 3. "Disgusting" the chef always smells like blood and raw meat, survivors who decode with him are disgusted by the smell and decode 20% slower. looks: wears a general chefs outfit, the apron says "kiss the chef". its slightly tattered and bloody, but hes a chef, what more can you expect? personality: seemingly intimidating (see, the bloody apron) but pretty nice and chill. likes the teleporter and the

venti: name: the wind spirit type: recue moves: 1.  "Wind Current" can control the wind to make a wind current appear that will push the hunter away, if surivors get within the range of the wind current they will be brought to the wind spirit. lasts 10 seconds and has a 30 second cooldown. 2. "Morals" the wind spirit has morals, and saving people is just one of them. When a survivor is put on a chair, the wind spirit gets a 20% speed boost for 30 seconds, and decoding speed is reduced by 50% until the survivor has been saved or dies. 3. "Not Meant For Me!" the wind spirit is so preoccupied with saving people, that their decoding speed is reduced by 10% and calibrations are increased by 20% looks: has black hair and blue tips, with blue eyes. wears a corset and a cape, with a general green theme. has a pendant on their cape as well. personality: has a tendecy to be witty and rude, but is generally very nice to the people around them. likes the teleporter and the tech artist.

dream: name: the teleporter type: containment/decode moves: 1. "Away!" can teleport 10 meters forward, and 15 when being pursued by a hunter. has a 25 second long cooldown, but the cooldown goes by faster when being pursued by a hunter. 2. "Not Meant For Rescues" the teleporter doesn't like rescuing people. when a survivor gets put on a rocket chair, the teleporters decoding speed and vaulting speed will increase by 10%. if they go near the rocket chair, both speeds will decrease by 15%. when the survivor is rescued or dies, the speed will return back to normal. 3. "Not Gonna Get Me!" when the teleporter is pursued by a hunter, vaulting and pallet speed is increased by 5%, if they are continously purused for 60 seconds, the speed will increase by 10% and will add 5% for every 60 seconds they are pursued. looks: has pink hair that floats around her. wears a holo-like suit, with holographic heels. yes, the holo does shine if you go close to light. personality: although the teleporter is friendly, they aren't particularly close with anyone. seems confident enough, though. likes the wind spirit and the tech artist.

[idv-ask-servais]

Hunter Servais, how do you feel about being a hunter? Do you find joy in hunting down the survivors? 👀

Servais: The Angel can be very brutal in her ways...I prefer a bit of a more ... delicate flair.

Deduction Node 9 unlocked:

9. Irony

So this was how he felt.

Conclusion:

Letter: Meet me at the bridge by the river tonight. Don't bring anyone with you.

The Illusionist event: https://idv-ask-servais.tumblr.com/post/183651240266/yes-hunter-au-servais-le-roy-is-no-longer-a

[fishandships]

so now we have FOUR versions of the "Manor Family Photo" - two with Orpheus; the one with just him and his parents and the one with Bane's parents, their faces obscured:

and two with Alice, one with normal eyes and the newest one with button eyes:

and all that confusion aside, i'm most intrigued by the significance of button eyes vs. regular eyes. we know it's significant who has them and who doesn't, and we've seen plenty of examples of this.

the earliest example we see of this contrast is in "Go Hunting"/"Da Capo", where Orpheus and "Memory" have normal eyes while Norton has button eyes (EXCEPT in his Hunter form/when he has Detention):

and then even more intriguingly, we got to see Luchino's eyes change the literal second he was bitten by the mysterious reptile, even before he became a Hunter:

see also Yhidra's followers permanently having one button eye and one normal eye, implying that this condition is related to Yhidra somehow.

but of course all the Hunters have normal (or relatively normal) eyes and all the Survivors have button eyes (in their shorts and in-game, although we've seen pre-game portraits where they also have normal eyes), and the family portraits and "Memory"/Alice show that there is a significance beyond that. one could argue based on Luchino's short that the difference is a particular connection being made, but Norton going back and forth between the two states, as well as the Survivors being seen prior to the Game with normal eyes, disproves that imho.

AND THEN THERE'S THIS.

according to NetEase, "humans" have normal eyes, and "puppets" have button eyes. but again, why do Yhidra's followers have one of each? why does Luchino become "human" when he is bitten by Yhidra's reptile? why does Norton only appear "human" sometimes?

NetEase what is the explanation???

[fishandships]

Ashes of Memory trailer observations

y'all when i saw the poster for this update with Frederick instead of Norton and heard that the featured Hunter was gonna be BQ instead of Nightmare i was SO disappointed BUT this trailer laid my fears to rest and now i'm SUPER excited for this update because as all my fellow detectives doubtlessly do, i have questions. i also have a few points towards my theory that this (Alice's version of events) is some kind of parallel universe, ALTHOUGH the other theory i have is that "Orpheus"' version is somehow altered due to his memory loss issues and that Alice's version is the correct one.

first off, we have ANOTHER variant of the DeRoss family portrait, making this the fifth variant that i'm aware of to date.

remember from The Journalist's trailer that she has one variant of this portrait in her possession - it's going to be interesting hearing why it's so different.

i'll spare you another rant on the button eyes being significant somehow but also of note is that in the version that Alice has on her nightstand, it shows the same parents along with herself as a little girl, while obviously the version she finds in the Manor shows the parents with Orpheus and two other people. this leads me to another difference i find intriguing, and that is the comparison to the version of this portrait that The Novelist found in his memory of his Game. this one shows himself as a child along with his parents and Mr. and Mrs. Perez, the forest rangers. their faces are obscured along with that of young "Orpheus". now in the newest variant of this portrait, we get to see their faces, though they are now dressed as a farmer and a maid. i'm not sure if this indicates that the individuals pictured here are not the Perezes, or that in this version the Perez family had different roles in the Manor (if so, it will be fascinating to see whether their son did as well).

i thought this bird might be a nightingale which would have been rather poignant but it's not :/ unless it's a fantasy variant for this universe or something. i wanted to identify it to see if it was of some other significance, but the shot is just too blurry to get a positive ID. my closest guesses based off of that crest, the distinct black collar, and the beige to cream underside would be a Crested Tit (although - and forgive my American-ness here for a sec - the silhouette makes it look WAY more like our Blue Jays here in North America, although i doubt a Chinese design team would pick an American bird rather than a Eurasian species).

ON TO THE MOST INTERESTING PART. yes i will be bringing up my argument that Norton isn't a killer for the umpteenth time, and this time i have some damn good evidence. despite the trailer being REAL keen on making it look like he's pursuing the entomologist who's running for her life, further inspection shows that something very different is going on here. firstly, he's not looking ahead of him as if pursuing someone. he's looking behind him, as though he's the one being pursued.

slowing the clip down confirms this. you can also see that his expression looks worried, and it's clear why - he is in fact being pursued, and attacked, by a flock of ravens crows*. i don't think it's too big a leap to infer that he's actually being hunted by Nightmare.

which i feel is confirmed by the subsequent (almost immediately so) appearance of The Man Himself in this incredibly sickass shot

and another metaphorical shot of the moth (having been used as an allegory for Alice herself in the previous in-game event) being destroyed by the raven crow* during Bird DILF's epic entrance.

*i am fully aware they're supposed to be ravens but they're so petite they look much more like crows (ravens are overall much beefier-looking than crows).

so i guess my hopes for this update at this point are 1) more Norton and possibly Bane content, 2) clarification on the whole Perez family and their relationship to the DeRoss family, and 3) Norton's name being cleared once and for all. i also will be appreciating any and all Nightmare content UwU

[fishandships]

ok so. compare/contrast between "Memory - The Girl", "Go Hunting", and "DA CAPO", in order of their release.

MEMORY - THE GIRL

"Memory" is in the forest when she encounters shadowy figures of Orpheus duking it out with Norton's Hunter form. as in, the two are already fighting when "Memory" appears, meaning Orpheus was not acting to protect her at this time.

we can see from a super brief shot of Orpheus in profile (plus the size difference) that this is not Nightmare, at least not from "Memory"'s POV. so "Memory" can see Norton's Hunter form but not Nightmare. also significant is that Norton is very clearly winning this fight - Orpheus is attacking him, but it's doing nothing.

the figures disappear when Norton appears to notice "Memory". seconds later Orpheus reappears in the flesh to comfort "Memory".

Orpheus is the one who sees the Hunter form of the Entomologist bearing down on them, and Orpheus, not Norton, punches her once before running away. when "Memory" looks back, she sees the traces of a shadowy figure disappearing, although it's unclear whether she ever actually saw this Hunter before Orpheus scooped her up and away.

the scene straight-up jumps to "Memory" and Orpheus already inside a dilapidated building, with Orpheus blocking the door with his body. he has blood on his head where before he was untouched.

an axe breaks through the door, which we know from "DA CAPO" to be Norton's doing, then the scene jumps again. "Memory" is back in the forest, no shadowy figures to be scene, and she clearly sees Orpheus collapse with no one else around. then "Memory" herself begins to disappear.

GO HUNTING

this short starts with Orpheus and "Memory" encountering a flashlight abandoned on the ground in a brick jungle gym.

as they run, a shadowy figure lumbers in the background before Norton in his Hunter form steps into the frame, surrounded by shadows.

The Hunter used Teleport! Norton is suddenly behind them rather than around the corner off in the distance. he reaches for them, but Orpheus attacks him with the flashlight, NOT inside the building and NOT with his fists like in "DA CAPO".

Orpheus drops the flashlight, and he and "Memory" run.

Norton picks up the flashlight, and there's some really cool glimpses of the beam getting closer as he follows them. but when he catches up to them, he shines it on the Hunter form of the Entomologist.

she also reaches for them, but Orpheus grabs "Memory", pulling her into the dilapidated house and shutting the door. the Entomologist pounds on the door until the sound of Norton's footsteps is heard followed by the sounds of a violent scuffle. the axe breaks through the door, and the short ends.

DA CAPO

starts out inside a shack, where the Entomologist plants a music box. idk what the deal with the music box is i'll figure that out later (it's sus af tho especially given she tends to hide killer bees inside shit). she then hides in a locker.

Norton enters the shack, although the music box is gone now. the first thing Norton does is look inside the chest. he's not looking for the Entomologist. he's looking for an item. something spooks him off, though.

out in the forest, the Entomologist is carrying a flashlight. Norton very clearly attacks her, literally knocks her lights right out. Orpheus, hiding in the bushes, sees Norton punch her. Orpheus picks up the flashlight she dropped, and in this version Norton doesn't get it again.

i THINK the above scene IS the same scene from "Go Hunting" and "Memory - The Girl" from a vastly different POV because "Memory" does see Orpheus, NOT Nightmare, fighting Norton who IS in his Hunter form.

as in the other versions, Orpheus hides in a dilapidated brick building, and Norton follows him.

The Hunter has Detention! (and a Jawline hot damn 👀) and, significantly, an axe, which he uses to break down the door a la The Shining.

i actually have no fucking clue whether time is passing normally from this point. in the other two shorts, Norton starts breaking the door before Orpheus starts beating on it. it is also completely unclear where exactly Orpheus goes from beating on the door to beating on Norton, and whose blood is on his hands during this time because i assume at least some of it is his own, at least until we see Norton go down.

during this beatdown, some absolutely bizarre shit happens where???? Orpheus is a corpse and then reborn??? with books flying all over the place? obviously his identities both as Survivor and Hunter revolve around him being a writer so i'm not sure whether this is meant to be visually linking him to Nightmare or not.

Orpheus breaks the glass and Nightmare is behind it, though we only get a split-second shot of him. i think the implication is that Orpheus has been "reborn" as Nightmare.

so presumably, Orpheus is now Nightmare, although NOT from Norton's POV. so at this point Orpheus is seeing Nporton in his Hunter form, but Norton cannot see Nightmare.

to me Norton genuinely looks shocked that Orpheus is attacking him. he does not use the axe he had a moment ago to attack Orpheus, or to defend himself. he does immediately hit Orpheus in retaliation, which could be due to hallucinations, Norton's badly-written BPD, or the fact that this asshole just sucker-punched him out of nowhere. valid if the latter.

this is the only time Norton fights back. he actually pauses here, Orpheus hits him again, then when Orpheus swings a third time Norton catches his wrists and tries to hold him back. oh btw Orpheus thinks his "daughter" is watching this/that he's protecting her from Norton.

despite Norton being the stronger of the two by far, from here he visibly stops fighting back, even when Orpheus grabs him by the front of his shirt. he starts to stagger after a few more haymakers to the jaw, then finally goes down when Orpheus kicks him below the belt (jfc that was so unnecessary)

i find it extremely significant that "Memory" vanishes after Orpheus starts. you know. after he's finished, he seems startled by the sight of a book behind him. i'm not sure if this is a sign that he's switched back from Nightmare to Orpheus? either way, this is where the short cuts off and the trilogy ends.

initially in writing this up i was gonna make a list of everything that changes but i've been at this for like two hours now and i feel this is Good Enough for Now (tm) holy shit. i'm gonna go do something to cheer myself up.