#perfectly normal dude -- is and feels safe within his place and relationships; doesn't have paranoia; doesn't have trauma etcetc

[leatherbookmarking]

#i'm sorry but this is SO funny #mdzs #even if you just assume that jgy didn't mean it when he confessed to  his death. for some reason #it's clear he had been planning his death anyway and was willing to do it himself...

is it? i guess we’ll have to call it a difference in interpretation, (which. if the text allows there to be one, i’d say it doesn’t state enough stuff as an undisputable fact) because

a, i consider an undisputable fact to be a fact that you can’t dispute with, such as “wwx did practice necromancy” or “wwx and jc loved jyl very much”. there’s enough about it in source text, and you can’t really find anything against it. this is different from, idk, “jc was abusive” or “xy only considered xxc a toy and nothing more”, no matter how certain people will insist they’re true, because it’s literally not mentioned in the text itself, and you’re supposed to work that out on your own, yknow, as a reader with certain skills.

b,

“i killed my brother” jin zixuan, i assume. did he? he only told him where wwx is going. the rest was out of his grasp: it was jzx who went there, jzx who tried to intervene, and wwx who’s lost control over his zombie friend. are we to assume jgy was so clever he was 100% confident this would happen, resulting in jzx’s death? when there are so many things that could go differently? that would make him a bit of a lousy murderer, wouldn’t it

“killed my wife” qin su... pretty famously snatched the dagger out of jgy’s grasp and stabbed herself. again, lousy killer jgy strikes back -- if he wanted qin su dead dead, there were other ways to do it than stand next to her with a dagger. like she could have. not taken it from him. and again, there are people 100% confident that ooooobviously it was a murder, but there are people, including me, who doubt that, which kinda excludes jgy murdering qin su from the undisputable fact club.

if anything, these deaths have one thing in common: if jgy didn’t do certain things, they could have been avoided. but yknow, if there are two fast food places nearby, and i tell my hungry friend to go to the one in a location that has much more street traffic and some accidenta have happened in the past, is it explicitly my fault if this friend gets in an accident?

or looking at it from the other side -- “father”’s death was arranged specifically as a murder plot, “teacher” was wrh that jgy choked to death with a guqin string or perhaps nmj, whose jgy also very much killed by repeatedly and willingly coming and playing him the remixed song of tranquility. “allowing your brother to go to a potentially dangerous place” does not compare to that, especially considering he’s supposed to be a strong cultivator. “standing near your wife with a dagger” does not compare to that, considering the wife should have been immobilized.

so, jgy listing jzx and qs amongst those he killed is, to me, less like a confession of actual killing intent and more of a confession that he feels responsible for those deaths. which is different from willing murder as an undisputable fact, because i would feel guilty after telling my friend to go to the fast food place with more traffic, but it still doesn’t make me a murderer.

now we have even less said about jrs’s death in the text, because at least we’ve “seen” jzx and qs die. it’s unclear, for example, how did he die. poison? assassins? we just don’t know.gif.

the one person who seems to be responsible for like 99% of jgy antis’ conviction that he definitely did kill his son is sect leader yao, who in some circles might be celebrated as the lone warrior for truth and Facts (right until you need a minor irritating antagonist in a wangxian fanfic), but i beg to differ. his merry headcanons do, however, provide a clue as to why jgy could have said that jrs “had to die” and “if we let him grow up, you and i...”

(it’s interesting by the way that we’re debating over an unfinished sentence being a proof of an undisputable fact.)

namely, “children born of incest have higher chances of having developmental disabilities”, to put it gently. i’m pretty sure that whenever did mdzs take action, they didn’t have advanced studies of that topic, suggesting, for example, that any genetical stuff is less likely to happen the less the parents are related. jgy is someone who -- having lived his whole life with his mother’s ocupation thrown in his face, with people considering it absolutely okay to harass him, with people refusing to touch the things he’s touched in public -- is very sensitive to people’s opinions and how they can ruin a person. let’s assume jrs survives. can jgy be sure that he won’t be different from other children his age? can he be sure that the second he shows a weakness or does something differently, people won’t blame it on his bad blood? can he be sure no one in the world knows that he and qs are related? no. and he’s right, because look what was in that letter.

this is what he probably means by saying “you and i”. if we assume jgy knows that children of incest have a chance to be Different, then he probably knows about the consequences of having a “weird” child in his, and qin su’s, position. their reputation would be in danger, not in the “jgy can’t become the king of the world” sense but rather “jgy is dirty and his blood is bad because he’s the son of a whore” as well as “and qin su is dirty too, because she slept with him” as well as “poor qin sect, their daughter whored herself to a whore’s son and now they have a weird little kid together”. i won’t even think about the way the society would treat jrs himself.

this, i think, is what he meant. the three of them, and their families, would be ruined, and he knew it. he probably was aware of it when qin su told him she’s pregnant, when she gave bith to jrs, and for every day of jrs’s life. if so, then why didn’t he give qs abortifacient tea? or why did he wait with this murder, why didn’t he have jrs killed a couple of days after he was born? we don’t know, we don’t have enough #data. here, jrs is like qs and jzx, except that he’s a child. if jgy is aware that jrs should never have been born, and if jrs -- his son -- died, then as a parent he feels responsible for it.

this still doesn’t make him specifically, willingly, “i am going to do this thing so that he dies” murdering jrs an undisputable fact. again, if i say okay to my kid going to the fast food place, no matter how many times i say “be careful”, if they get in an accident and die, a/ i’m going to feel horribly guilty, even saying that i killed my child because i could have done this, or that, or that, b/ i’m still not guilty in a way that, yknow, i didn’t hit my child with a car, c/ i am, however, responsible for my child.

does that mean jgy either killed jrs with his own hands or had him assassinated? does that mean he was aware of a potential assassination plot and did nothing to stop it? does that mean he wasn’t aware and didn’t/couldn’t stop it in time, and despite knowing that this way it’s better for his and qin su’s public opinions, felt guilty and bad about his child dying?

we don’t know, we don’t have all the facts!

ergo, not an undisputable fact.

also whenever people say jgy killed his own child like it's an undisputable fact I'm like Source please