#one of my pet peeves with lwj characterization is this like���

[curiosity-killed]

*crawls out of 2 yrs’ silence on mdzs* in a modern au Lan Wangji’s reliance on structure and rules could closely mirror the way some students advance immediately from bachelors to masters to phd without taking breaks because it is a “safe” route that allows them to fulfill family and societal expectations of success and intellect in a relatively familiar environment without the perceived higher risk and greater volatility of success in the workforce, particularly where there is a family business in which such education is not necessary but still rewarded. His protection of Wei Wuxian could similarly play out as him dropping out of his studies before being pulled back by his family, and his growth across the 13 yrs supported by completing his degree but shifting his dissertation focus or concentration to a less theoretical and more highly applied vein of the same field. In this AU, I—

[poorlittleyaoyao]

they had like ten days of fight training iirc and that includes wirework

Oh dang, that's quite the boot camp! I should clarify that I think the actors do a great job with their end of any combat or stunts. My issue is mostly with the choreography. There's not much variance between characters in their actual style of fighting (beyond those that come from using different weapons), and it would've been cool to have combat styles quickly (or even just basic moves) identifiable as belonging to specific characters or sects. Combat informs characterization! it'd be so cool to see JL busting out a move we've previously only seen from JC, or SL's style resembling XY's when he's under XY's control as a fierce corpse, etc etc. The actors differentiate with their postures/expressions (I love how straight-backed and unimpressed LWJ often is during the big fight scenes), but that's not the same as differences in the choreo itself. And I think that's part of why the fights in CQL are... kinda boring, to me. Even when they're high-stakes! (The exception being the attack on Lotus Pier--that one always keeps my interest on rewatch, even though I know how it's gonna go, and I think it's because YZY is such a FORCE, and unique too. Nobody is doing it like her, not even JC once Zidian has been passed to him.)

(Also--it drives me up the wall that the weapons don't have weight to them. This pet peeve isn't unique and every entertainment industry on this planet activates it, because using light prop weapons for faster movement in action sequences makes sense. But like. God. Baxia especially! She should be SO heavy, but she doesn't MOVE like she's heavy. The actors who hold her try their best to convince me that she's heavy and they're just super strong but you cannot overcome the lack of gravity. LET BAXIA HAVE WEIGHT.)

[llycaons]

at this point this is my biggest pet peeve in all of fanfiction. yeah annoying tropes and painful cliches and generic characterizations all suck but I can overlook the general quality issues easier than I can overlook this. and I don't even know where it's fucking coming from. one of the few times jc actually does acknowledge wwx and lwjs relationship preres, it's almost sensitive of him. he's trying to be supportive, if floundering a bit bc he can see wwx is miserable and alone.

why do people latch on to the cruelty of his later interactions with them? he's not being brotherly or joking or emotionally-repressed-yet-affectionate when he says really horrible things later, he's just trying to hurt wwx. the contempt he shows for their relationship is genuine, and he never once gives any indication to wwx postres that he secretly supports them or there's a joke to be had. and wwx hates it when jc treats him and lwj like this! he demands apology and pushes back, in canon!

it's just baffling to me that ppl ignore jcs clumsy yet genuine attempt at kindness and instead characterize his interaction with wwx's relationship as exactly the opposite of how he acted when they were on good terms. they're actively making him worse and mischaracterizing wwx in the process. I get that he's prickly and not great with feelings even preres but why would his fans want to portray him so horribly?

it also pisses me off that writers will just have wwx happily accept being treated like shit by jc even though he hates it in canon and in the book he has a whole monologue about being sick of it and wanting better for himself and after a lifetime of cruelty and abuse he's supposed to keep bending over backwards because jc can't bear to take responsibility for his actions?? at his age??? AND I think it ties really insidiously with the trend of treating homophobia as an ironic joke online which is shitty anyway but particularly egregious in a work set in 1963

[righteousinadversity]

3, 9, and 10 for the ask game?

Thank you for the ask!

3. What’s your favourite aspect of MDZS?

Oh gods, there is so much... How complex and well-written the characters are, their motives, their fears, and what drives them. How tight the plot is, and just the story's execution - how even with all the flashbacks it never feels jarring.

But my favourite aspect has to be, without a doubt, Wei Wuxian. Just how brilliant a protagonist he is, his ideals, his determination, his sheer strength of will. Wei Wuxian as a character inspires me to be a better person, and I think that will always be the most cherished thing I have about MDZS.

9. What’s your favourite piece of fan content you’ve consumed (metas, fanart, fanfiction, etc)?

My favourite piece of fan content... well there are fanfictions that are definitely my absolute comfort fics, and metas that gave me such brilliant analysis of the work itself. But I would say @ladypfenix's song of swords will be an all-time favourite of mine (with its sequel not far behind). It is such a beautiful piece of work and you guys should absolutely read it!

10. What do you look for in fanfiction? What do the writers have to get ‘right’, and what things will make you click away?

What will make me click away? Oh plenty, plenty of things. Especially so for fics set in canon-universe. I am much more flexible about fics that happen in AUs because I can be brought into the belief of people being different with different influences. But even then, I am absolutely staunch about Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji's characterization and also about the dynamic they share. This means none of the nonsensical fanon about WWX - conditionally smart WWX, insecure or arrogant WWX, politically inept WWX, oblivious WWX, WWX who downplays his own powers for JC or even because he is afraid of YZY, just... let him be in all his confident, powerful glory. Similarly, for LWJ, caveman LWJ makes me want to die, LWJ who is cruel to others who are not WWX, LWJ who is over possessive especially if WWX and he are not in a committed relationship yet, Manipulative LWJ, Dark LWJ are all my instant nos.

For Wangxian dynamic itself, I don't care for LWJ being the one who fixes WWX or whatever. I also don't care for LWJ being raised on a pedestal while WWX is someone who is barely worthy of him. These are common tropes I see, but I obviously don't care for the roles being reversed either.

Aside from that, for canon verse fics, I don't like abuse apologism, especially in the case of YZY. I don't care for fics that whitewash JC, JGY, XY. If they have a long redemption arc at a suitable point in the story, I could be convinced but like. It has to happen early. And there has to be a good redemption arc. But fics that act like they did not commit canon actions at all? Nope.

The cultivation world being framed as being in the right during the BM arc. I will jump away from that fic so fast-

And finally. Gui Dao is evil - or any substitute of Gui Dao in AU fics is evil - is an absolute instant no. I cannot handle it as it is almost always paired with reckless WWX/self sacrificing WWX.

I also have personal preferences regarding some side characters and only gripping plot and good WX characterization can keep me if certain pet peeves do show up.

As for what can the writer get 'right'? Well the opposite. Good WX characterization. Wen Remnants and WWX found family is always my favourite. Writing soft-hearted and timid side characters well is a personal preference I enjoy across all fandoms. I just... don't care for fics that look like it had been written by someone who knows the work through scrolling through a few posts on the net than by actually reading the book.

ask game

[bitterfrosts]

i actually didn’t think i’d like SL but it also makes sense i did cuz my other favs are LWJ and WN but i fell in love w those two w the novel and manhwa ,, SL i fell for later after watching both CQL & the donghua i think cuz i got more time to wrap my head around the plot / timeline by then so i could focus on characters n such ??? if that makes any sense sorry

also like off topic how do you imagine SL being towards XY in a modern au ?? like i read some fics and it’s just genuine distaste to him because of love triangle stuff / possessive nature for those two but i just always feel like for there to be a mirror of how he feels towards XY in canon XY has to do something yk ?? like i just don’t take SL as someone to hate someone outright like who is he to judge but their actions unto others yk ??

idk i read a ( modern au ) fic where like i the end sxx does get tighter despite everything cuz XY did a LOT of shit and really bad shit to SL specifically but i think it only worked because they make the fact that their whole dynamic ( SL x XY specially ) was extremely rocky a lot of pushing boundaries & therapy for all of them cuz like fuck they need it but even in the ending of the fic they aren’t in paradise together it’s more of the water has finally stilled and the boat isn’t shaking to where everyone might die yk ???

i might be off base here though sorry maybe just ignore this whole thing i just have a lot of thoughts about SL sorry for spam if i did

The thing I like about modern AUs is it’s easier to “soften” characters that are hard to make happy endings for. Unless you’re going for a “dead dove serial killer” vibe, XY can’t really be the blood-happy killer he is in modern AUs and expect to have any kind of happy resolution, not for the characters AND the readers benefit. XY can still be a pain in the butt handful, but he past can be repainted as the writer sees fit. (I personally like to make him a troubled former foster kid who has the system fail him as it is unfortunately wont to do, who had a seedy past but is trying to rebuild himself.)

And... as far as sxx dynamics go, that IS one of my pet peeves with it. You can very often tell when the writer really just wants to write xuexiao smut but can’t think of a reason to have SL not be present that doesn’t make either xxc or xy come off as jerks. So sl gets turned into a sort of pretty ornament to decorate the background so we know he’s there, but rarely gets to participate in the actual relationship. And like- if you wanna just write xuexiao stuff, you can! I’d do that instead of getting people’s hopes up wrt sxx. I read a fic a while ago where xy was put into an existing songxiao dynamic after xxc hooked up with him and it read as xxc cheating on sl and that break of trust was never followed up or dealt with in any way. It CAN be done, but it’s hard to establish correctly, if that’s the route you wanna go. There’s an ongoing fic I’m absolutely in LOVE with rn that handles it pretty well! Here written by @veilchenjaeger who has imo some of the BEST characterizations!

As for modern songxue interactions, I see song lan as the kind of guy who just needs someone to take care of, whether it’s xxc or a-qing or even Xue Yang. (For the latter, he’d do so begrudgingly, but he’d do it.) sure, modern xy never does the dishes and takes all the hot water in the morning and eats his leftovers, but xy’s life would be a mess without sl swooping in to keep things in check. And SL’s stern but patient nature leaves xy with room to get better, which I often like to see in modern AUs. There’s another series that handles it well that I love here by rynleaf that has my ideal songxue dynamic that follows up the “song lan has a violent streak he isn’t proud of but also needs to take care of people” characterization I feel he inherently has.

I hope you enjoy them. :)

[ge]

pet peeves on how madam lan is portrayed in fandom? whats ur ideal characterisation of her/ her story?

biggest number one pet peeve is when ppl portray qingheng jun as the victim and/or hve madam lan fall in love with him and their romance is jst another tortured angsty love story as if qhj literally didnt force her to marry him rape her then imprison her against her will and left her to rot for dead as he wallowed and pitied himself to the point he let himself burn to death in a fire like a little bitch... whnvr i find a rare madam lan lives fic theres ALWAYS a line where she says smth stupid like ‘maybe he rlly is a good guy but we are destined to be apart forever and i will nvr know the touch of a man outside of the rare moments he sneaks away from his self inflicted imprisonment to hold me’ LIKE R YALL DUMB? R YALL STUPID.? it makes me SICK it makes me ILL it has gotten to the point i cant read anymore fics w madam lan in it cuz yall clowns r always doing this shit.... 

as forrr ideal characterization of herr... i think it varies from person to person (NOT countng qhj apologists i dont give a shit abt yalls characterization of her) and i think my characterization of her contains a lot of my own self projected feelings so i dont think ill go too in depth abt my own characterization of her ubt as for my ideal STORY for her.. i simply think instead of dying from what was prbly a curable disease, fuck qhj AND lqr for that, she escapes and either does or doesnt take lwj and lxc w her (bc as much as i love the idea of lwj and lxc becoming rouge cultivators w their mama i also like the idea of them thinking she died [courtesy of lqr again] but finding out shes alive and well and making a name for herself some place far faar away from gusulan)

[fytheuntamed]

Do you have any thoughts on why the novel might be so popular among lgbt people despite (sometimes quite obviously) being written by a straight women for straight women. I think this is quite evident in for example the sex scenes

Why do I think the novel is so popular amongst LGBTQ+ people despite being written by a straight woman for straight women? Simple! It’s a good story and the characters are complex and intriguing. No piece of media is ever perfect, so it simply comes down to whether an individual feels the positive aspects of the media outweigh the negative aspects of the media. Are there problematic aspects within the novel? Of course! But that doesn’t mean the novel as a whole should be disregarded. You can consume media while still being critical of it, just like you can like a character while acknowledging that they’re not a good person. LGBTQ+ people, like everyone else, value a good story and interesting characters, so even if there are aspects of the story that we dislike, we may still stick around if we think it’s worth it! Also, I think there’s a shortage of stories like “Mo Dao Zu Shi” where you have LGBTQ+ characters whose sexuality isn’t the focus of the story. Yes, Wangxian are soulmates and very much in love, but that isn’t the whole point. You have a delightful bundle of politics, magic, familial ties, concepts of right and wrong, mystery, etc etc that also features a beautiful love story between two men. I guess my point is, LGBTQ+ people are flawed just like everyone else and sometimes we consume content even if we don’t agree with every part of it.

I’ve avoided getting involved in any discourse surrounding the various versions of MDZS because I wanted to keep this blog drama free, however I would like to take this chance to offer my own thoughts on the “problematic” aspects of the novel. Before I get into it, I just want to make three things clear: 1) I’m white, 2) I’m not mlm, I’m a lesbian, and 3) I’ve only read the second half of the novel and honestly I can’t remember too much of the specifics. The relevance of my opinion on the matter, therefore, is limited and my words should be read with this fact in mind. I would love to hear everyone’s thoughts and feelings on this matter, so do feel free to either leave a comment or reblog and add your two-cents. All I ask is that we keep it respectful so this can continue to be an enjoyable space for all fans.

I’ve been going through the untamed’s tumblr tag daily since the start of this blog in August 2019, so I’ve seen the whole spectrum of opinions on this matter. Some people feel very strongly that some of the ways in which MXTX writes particular aspects of the novel are “problematic,” some people are indifferent, and others feel that criticism of MXTX’s writing comes from a lack of knowledge of Chinese culture (particularly LGBTQ+ Chinese culture). (I remember seeing a post touching upon this last matter, but I didn’t save it, so unfortunately I can’t link it.)

I think the two most common criticisms of the novel that I have come across pertain to matters of consent and the imposing of heteronormative concepts onto Wangxian. Again, I want to stress that I haven’t read the novel in its entirety and my memory of it is foggy. Talking about consent first, some felt the scene in the novel where LWJ kisses an unexpecting blindfolded WWX was a big no no, while others thought it was a very sweet, romantic scene. (To give context for those who have only seen the drama, this scene would have been placed in episode 25 had they included it). For this matter, I’m of the belief that consent is a must. Regardless of whether WWX enjoyed the kiss, the fact stands that no one is entitled to another’s body, and this is why consent is, in my eyes, non-negotiable. For those who have no problem with this scene, I do think it is worth considering how you would feel about this scene had it involved, say, Jin Zixuan kissing a blindfolded Jiang Yanli. If that had been the case, I do think the majority of readers would have found the scene in poor taste (I could be wrong, though!). I will say that the trope of the forceful kiss is extremely common and can be found in every genre; it’s definitely not restricted to LGBTQ+ couples. For the aforementioned reason, I don’t like the forceful kiss scenario irregardless of the genders of the people involved. I do think writing such scenes for LGBTQ+ couples in particular can perpetuate harmful stereotypes, particularly that LGBTQ+ people have no respect for personal boundaries and can’t control their physical desires. I think the situation is doubly bad if the person who is being kissed is “not yet gay,” because again, it perpetuates the idea of the big bad gay person and the innocent “straight” person who is at the whims of said big bad gay.

Moving on to WWX and LWJ’s sex life, I have seen multiple people in the tag mentioning WWX having a “rape kink” and their discomfort with this fact. Logically, I understand that we are all allowed, as human beings with different tastes and preferences, to enjoy the things that bring us pleasure (excluding certain obvious things). That being said, I do not personally enjoy rape fantasies in my media and try to stay far away from it. As I mentioned, we are all welcome to our own tastes and preferences, but I do think it is important that we realize that we are all also the product of our environments. Things, including kinks, do not exist in vacuums, and therefore they must arise as a result of some mixture of external and internal forces. Does MXTX giving WWX a rape kink automatically make her demon spawn? Not really. Does MXTX giving WWX a rape kink add anything to his character or the story? Also not really. All this being said, I do think LGBTQ+ media is oversaturated with consent issues and I’d personally like to see this come to an end, because once again, it perpetuates harmful stereotypes that do have a real impact on LGBTQ+ individuals.

As for the imposing of heteronormative concepts onto Wangxian, I think the biggest complaint I’ve seen is about WWX being referred to as the “mom” or the “wife” within the Wangxian couple. I would like to state here that this may be a situation in which cultural differences come into play. Additionally, because the novel is not originally written in English, it may be a case of telephone in which the true meaning becomes distorted as it is translated from one language to another and then to another and so on and so forth. Therefore, I am going to proceed with my thoughts on the matter in a more generalized way. For me, this is a big pet peeve of mine, to the point where I will not reblog content that refers to any of the male characters as “mom” or “wife.” My reasoning is simple: WWX is a man, so he would be someone’s “dad” or “husband,” not their “mom” or “wife.” I know from first-hand experience that non-LGBTQ+ people will often try to place a gay couple within a heterosexual context to make it easier for them to process how two women or two men could be together. I understand the reasoning behind this way of thinking, but that does not mean this way of thinking should be encouraged. It’s bad enough that non-LGBTQ+ couples are ensnared in an endless maze of gendered ways of being and thinking - let’s not force that on LGBTQ+ couples as well. My other issue is that the words “mom” and “wife” not only have gendered connotations, but they have implicit sexual connotations as well. In this context, “mom” and “wife” are just another way of saying “bottom.” Just think about it; nobody’s out there calling LWJ “mom” or “wife.” The whole idea of “top” and “bottom” in gay media is so……..it’s almost like an obsession? And for those of you who may be thinking it’s not that deep and has no bearing on real life….I really wish that were true. Go look at the comments section of any gay couple’s youtube video and you will invariably find someone asking who is the top and who is the bottom. That’s invasive as fuck, y’all, and you don’t see that shit on straight couple’s videos (again, because the assumption is that women are always in the submissive, therefore there’s no need to ask because it’s assumed the answer will always be that the woman “bottoms” and the man “tops”). All this being said, I can only speak about this matter from my viewpoint as a lesbian. If one day I were to get married, I wouldn’t want people referring to my wife as my “husband,” because the whole point is that we’re both the wife! I know there isn’t one rule/mindset that applies to all gay people, so I would love to hear others’ feelings on this matter.

Finally, I would also like to briefly touch upon Mo Xuanyu, who we don’t really get to see in the drama. I don’t know whether LWJ or WWX ever explicitly state their sexualities or which gender(s) they’re attracted to, but I’m pretty sure Mo Xuanyu is explicitly stated to be strictly into men (please correct me if I’m wrong!). I do wonder what MXTX’s intentions were (if there were any) when she decided to make Mo Xuanyu gay, because what I’ve grasped of his characterization is that he is written similarly to other gay male characters that give the impression they were created by checking off a list of every popular stereotype about gay men. I guess I’m just curious, as someone who knows very little about Mo Xuanyu, how others felt about his character in terms of complexity and stereotypes.

If you took the time to read all this, thank you! Let me know your thoughts~

[bluecygnets]

one of my biggest pet peeves (among many) on lwj fanon characterization is still people thinking that lwj has difficulty with speech/language. like,,, Where. Which part shows that. Because there is absolutely None

[llycaons]

if you like to read trash fire fanfiction this one I was talking about would be a pretty good choice. the worst characterization for lwj (and jzx) I've ever seen in my life. no personality. no chemistry. no history. incredibly bland in almost every single way. jzx is the aforementioned homophobic, crude asshole who acts more like his cousin than himself. fucking...green card marriage (personal pet peeve). wwx is incredibly stupid. awful AWFUL sex scenes. completely erasing the role of the wens in their baby's life. wen qing only shows up at the very end, no relation to a-yuan, and she's a lawyer for some reason. I don't think any other wens ever show up, a-yuan's mom is this unnamed baby abandoner. MXY is the one who drops the baby off with wwx for some reason. uhhhh the dialogue is complete dogshit. some of the side characters are racist towards wwx and lwj and...nothing happens they're just kind of racist? the writing for their names just makes no sense like it was not translated well into english at allllll teachers are calling wwx "ying" and shit um jyl was a one-dimensional Smiling Mom, somehow written to have less depth than in the original show. wwx and lwj knowingly bring the baby on a trip they KNOW triggers his anxiety and abandonment issues and like...read stories to him the entire time so it's treated as fine? they really didn't have to take a plane. why did they do that

and in the midst of this wreck is somehow the most perfectly accurate writing for a 3 year old child I have ever seen. a-yuan's abandonment issues and development were engagingly and thoughtfully explored. his dialogue, and nobody else's, was entirely realistic, charming, and touching. I laughed. I cried. truly one of the most experiences I've ever had