#not mentioning og helmet owner proving to valtr that rehabilitative justice didn't work as well with her downfall

[katyahina]

What do you think vermin actually is? I've seen it portrayed as the actual physical embodiment of infection or smth that only grows inside strong beasts/enemies. Maybe they're not even "real", since Hunters have to choose to actually see vermin, and its just there to give encouragement and incentive to kill. It could also just be whatever the person deems impure too. What do you think?? Do you think it could be a combination of all this? Vermin is whatever the person thinks it is?? Why are they centipedes!!??

Mainly what makes this really interesting for me is because Yamamura just saw.. an ABUNDANCE of filth. Wayyy more than the average confederate. This makes me think that maybe since he was a foreigner, his untainted influence of Yharnam and different background made him really see how fucked everything was💀💀😭(??)

Oh well, that's a good question actually! Not gonna lie Vermin as a concept drew my attention from design alone (as centipedes are the best insects, after butterflies of course), plus I love metaphors! So yeah, as for 'whether Vermin is real or an illusion' question, I just...

Basically, I think Vermin is a real thing, but what is questionable is the PURPOSE of even seeing it. Well... You cannot really last long without a purpose in this shit town tho, so fair enough. Let me grab a few excerpts from what we can say about the concept so far (very cranky wording warning, because I am using the document (X) by Last Protagonist for more nitpicky wording as always)

This one is from description of Impurity rune, however yes, originally it is named 淀み (yodomi), and IS, in fact, associated with water that is not 'moving', thus it becomes dirty and all kinds of things can settle in it! I kinda owe this one to Last Protagonist again as he explained implication of water comparison in his essay (X) in a way that clicked with me, because I do understand things better through nature metaphors, and symbolism of fire in pursuit of evolution just was not cutting enough of my questions so yeah. Give me a second...

It says you can only see them if you want to, which refers to usage of the rune, that is unusual kind of 'specific' Insight? Not unlike how you can only see blood dregs with Corruption rune equipped, and I remind you:

(By the by according to LP, 'impurity' (穢れ, kegare) ties more to cainhurst vilebloods rather than what League finds, but the difference is redundant as concepts are similar, I am only picking on 'stagnation' for easier personal understanding)

Dying wills are literal translation of Blood Echoes, so in this case, you only find these things within blood-drunk hunters. In the original, there is no connection with what 'stagnation' (aka League's concept of 'impurity') is refering to, however I found it interesting that in Hunter's Nightmare, you find Vermin within old hunters whose eyes are not yellow but are like this:

Which is like eyes of Abhorrent Beasts:

I agree that it's too easy to get lost between what's just gameplay element (they did need to mark WHICH hunters you should target SOMEhow!) and what is a legit thing, but yeah this instantly made me think that you should be a biiiiiiit closer to being 'bad' than regular person to develop Vermin, plus when you attack Valtr he screams at you as if you'll have Vermin within BECAUSE you're bad, so. But okay, here is also this:

So what we DO know is that snake had Vermin within and it ate beasts, whereas Impurity rune was discovered within a "forbidden beast-eater", and Valtr is the only person explicitly refered to as such. (Lore says that rune is SAID to have been discovered inside of him, and that him surviving and eating the beast is a 'tale', but it clashes with how I see this character that he'd just assume role that isn't his, so I write it off as FromSoft doing the good old 'did they didn't they' to make us fill the gaps by ourselves. But remember kids, the most walked path is not the only path, so always explore opportunities if you like them more!)

So I presume partially it is self-inflicted. Beasts are humans, after all, just twisted and dirtied by blood into something unrecognizeable and unsightly - so moral questions of TECHNICALLY eating another human aside, Valtr very much consumed a lot of 'filth', thus that might have triggered understanding of something awful. He could have even gotten Vermin himself, but he can tolerate it, really, focusing on killing it elsewhere, who knows.

It is interesting how it says that rune was discovered INSIDE of him, whereas Ludwig and Adeline outright envisioned their runes themselves... And both have/had eyes on the inside, too. Makes me think that someone who COULD envison runes literally leaning against him to listen until they could make sense of the weird sound inside and write it down xD Just handing him the result all like 'wake up beast-eater you fucked up a big time' sdjhdsfds

However:

This one outright calls them 'illusions', I checked several times, which alludes to how they might not even be real! But yeah, with everything I already brought up, here is what I think/headcanon:

Parasites are like, definitive thing within the setting, but unlike Kos Parasites for example, Vermin cannot be seen by just anyone as it is a parasite tied to humans. Basically it's unaccessibility to normal eye - heck, even very insightful one either! - has to do with complexity of what 'humanity' IS. What the line between human and beast really IS? Is beasthood (by extension, 'evil') cultivated or revealed? So yeah, Valtr being able to comprehend the concept like nobody before has to do with his ability to draw the CLEAR line between innocense and sin - ability that he now can pass to others through the rune, but it will still allude to one's personal views. Ability that might be your doom if you are too open-minded, impressionate and sensitive (what happened to Yamamura, but about that later). Yeah maybe do not accept people who are more brain than brawl in the League xd

It has to do with real 'filth' that now almost everyone has - from all the blood-drinking and beasthood and madness and god knows what else, though, but it is evasive as even Great Ones are clearer concept than what 'nature' of human is, whether we are naturally evil and should fear it or whether we are naturally good but reject it. Connotation of beasthood with psychology is what makes Vermin invisible unless you have the rune.

However, Celestial Emissaries are examples of exceptions - being completely 'purified' from curse of beasthood (and from humanity as well...). Think back on how mind is a 'lake' and if water within it stagnates, it becomes a swamp. So speaking with a Great One brought Choir members (at least later ones) secret of being pure - basically imagine it like a river put through this metaphorical lake, but this river rushes SO fast that it is now JUST river instead of lake, and not only dirty things cannot settle within, but good sort of life can neigher. My inspiration was lack of cosmic Kin in Nightmare Realm - they cannot go to Hell! But at what cost..... It is also what drove Fauxsefka insane, as she resigned to 'cleanse' everyone from beasthood with her own hands, even if she has to do it one by one (SIKE she has ALWAYS been mad but you get the point).

It is also the basics of Research Hall experiments - early attempts at dealing with the beasthood and nasty things within humankind in general. Laurence does drop Eye Pendant - and alas, patients were a failure. I mean, their boss variant is LITERALLY called Living Failures...... With more eyes on the inside, they started to get a hunch of what lurks within, but not able to cleanse from it unfortunately. Kinda stuck in the 'lake', unable to reach the 'sea' from it. Sorry, I just get these things better through metaphors.

So yeah, I think Vermin is a real thing, but it is very abundant (if not everpresent) within humans, the only confirmed way to heal it non-murdery way is to "heal" oneself from humanity ITSELF which is a no-no, Valtr doesn't mingle with madmen! And essentially League's mission boils down to destruction of all sentient life doesn't it... But he is a stoic man with more sanity than he lets on, he just does what he must, maybe unable to destroy all 'sin' but not giving up and not taking anything less as his motivation! It is his duty to kill it once it shows up, not questioning it!

Also an idea I had is that Vermin might come in more kin/floral variant - such as Fluorescent Flowers being one of the results to 'heal' people from 'filth' pacifist way, but it led to Vermin within to like... grow so bad that it swallowed original host's body to the point of practically BECOMING it... Not unlike it happens with Snake Parasites sorta. These Flowers always looked resembling of a centipede for me, so why not

It says that he is not able to see Vermin anymore though - which I think alludes to psychology again, how he concluded that literally everyone deserves to die so he doesn't see the 'border' anymore - but when you attack him? His little speech sounds for me as if NOW he can see it again really xD You showed him 'clear' evil - betrayal, something clear to hate even more than Literally Everything Else deserves to be hated, which is fucking terrifying but that's why I love this character so much lol