#no amount of 'but they had chemistry back in s11 and s12' is gonna change how i see this

[mittensmorgul]

If Saileen is nothing real, why is the music in the Dean / Cas prayer scene is the same as the Sam / Eileen kiss scene?

I mean, it’s a different arrangement. And used to different purpose... a variation on a theme, let’s call it.

Do you actually want me to go into why they’d use a tiny fragment of the same (but slightly different arrangement, again) musical theme for Eileen leaving Sam, even after a kiss, that they used for Dean’s confession prayer to Cas about how badly he regretted not having stopped Cas from leaving, just a few scenes before Dean and Cas reunite and Cas tells Dean he doesn’t need to say anything else because he heard Dean’s prayer?

Do you want me to explain how they used like two minutes of buildup of the musical theme behind Dean’s prayer, beginning the moment he says “I should’ve stopped you.” It’s... an entirely different part of the arrangement of the larger musical theme. Do you want me to explain how Dean’s prayer scene ended with a transition of piano chords into another of Sam’s visions of the horrible future (that will now never come to pass) as Dean continued to look for Cas, while Eileen’s exit instead concluded on a swell of strings as she made her exit, despite Sam actively asking her to stay?

The same musical themes can be used to different effect. Context matters. Yes I saw that post that had like four seconds of video where they hit the same few bars, but Dean’s prayer is like 2 minutes long, and Eileen leaving is like 30 seconds of a different section of the score, that ends on an fade out.

Context matters.

I didn’t say that Saileen is “nothing real.” I said that their relationship since 15.06 has been engineered by Chuck. Chuck put her there, Chuck arranged all the events of 15.06, and like Ruby telling Sam he’d made all the right choices to bring them to killing Lilith and releasing Lucifer, Chuck telling Sam he’d effectively done the same-- from sending Eileen to the bunker for help, to leaving that half-finished spell he knew Sam could finish, and knew that Sam would use to resurrect Eileen fully, and in effect that Sam made all the “right choices” again-- is just... creepy to me. I think Eileen would agree with me here, which is why she left.

Could she come back, of her own free will? Sure! She absolutely could! But what happened between her and Sam so far in s15... is at the very least highly suspect, if not outright skeevy, because as long as Eileen doesn’t know what of all of that was real, and what Chuck had manipulated them into, then ew no pls.

[mittensmorgul]

Between the promo and the interview with Dabb. It's important to see the love professed between persons they are not blood family but they are Family. I will only say that love is different but not least. I love that Dean says "Cas is my best friend" because a friend can be a brother, confidant, ally, encompasses a lot of things. And I Iike Dabb to say "Everybody looking for their place" Because they are all important. Castiel is one of a kind and he has to find his own place in the universe.

Yeah.

(And just for the record, Mr. Mittens is my best friend.)

(we’ve been married for almost 20 years)

(but he’s definitely my best friend)

And really, the whole “Everybody looking for their place” thing is something we’ve been flailing over FOR YEARS. ACTUAL MULTIPLE YEARS.

*note to say that I would provide ALL the quotes, but the superwiki’s been down all day, so this is literally entirely off the top of my head. All receipts can be found buried in my blog, but for the purposes of answering this in a timely fashion, *boom* you get the stuff I can remember without looking it up… :D*

*second note to say I’m putting this under a cut because damn… I wrote over 3k on the subject and whoa it’s long*

Let’s start with Dean (because really this show, for me, starts and ends with Dean)

Dean, in 10.16, with his whole confessional scene. Thinking about the things… people he wants to experience differently. Maybe even for the first time.

But this isn’t even really a new notion for Dean. At the beginning of the series we were first introduced to this cocky dude who had this whole loner/rebel thing going on… but that image got turned on its head by the end of the second episode (the third episode drowned that perception of Dean in a lake). He spent most of s2 feeling like he wasn’t even supposed to be ALIVE, let alone deserve anything more than he already had.

By s3, he’d sold his soul for Sam’s, and he was content with the trade… until near the end of the season when his time was running out and he was forced to confront his fate… (I don’t deserve it! FINALLY! at the end of 3.10 confronting the dream-demon-dean)

Resurrected in 4.01, Cas points out that Dean doesn’t believe he deserved to be saved… and he’s forced to confront this fate apparently laid on him by God– who he didn’t even believe existed, and certainly didn’t care about. Heaven was conspiring against Dean to make him into their pawn, all the while he fought against that fate. At that point in the story, back during the Apocalypse, he didn’t really get much time to stop and think about what “place” he’d choose for himself, he just knew he wasn’t gonna let destiny choose for him. Back then, he was fighting for the right to choose at all.

Apocalypse dusted, he trudged off to look for a white picket fence and a little peace and quiet. As far as he knew, the world wasn’t trying to end anymore, and without any sort of direction for himself, for the first time in his life he was sort of free to explore something different for himself. For reasons I’ve talked about plenty of times before, it didn’t work out for him. He tried to find a balance there, but it was too much, and suddenly he was adrift again.

He’d lost his faith again. Cas was gone, Sam was broken, and the world was definitely falling apart again. S7 stripped away everything that Dean had ever known. Forget about having choices, by the end of the season he was even running out of last-ditch refuges. Then he and Cas ended up in the last-ditch refuge to beat all other last-ditch refuges: Purgatory.

Coming back from Purgatory seemed to give Dean a new lease on life. ESPECIALLY after Cas came back… at least for a little while. Even after Cas came back to him, he still ditched him again…

(yes it was because he was being controlled by Naomi, no neither dean nor cas knew that at the time, yes it left everyone feeling terrible)

Then they discovered the Bunker. Things really began to change for him. He had a place that he felt was actually THEIRS. A solid, steady home base that grounded him in the world like nothing had since he’d been 4 years old and had a family home. It was his heritage, a part of his personal history that had been stolen from him long before he was even born. And that was HUGE for Dean.

The thing he was best at, the thing he took most pride in– his abilities as a hunter– was validated by this creepy old vault in a hillside.

Suddenly he had a home, a sense of legitimacy, a sense that he wasn’t some outcast on the fringes of society. Granted, living in a secret underground bunker still technically puts one on the fringes of society, but more in a Batman sort of way instead of in a Spiders Georg sort of way…

Right from the start, Dean had this sense of BELONGING there. He felt at home. He LIKES living there. He has privacy and comfort and his own room and a cozy robe and slippers, not to mention all the tools and resources he could ever hope to have to do the job he’s always loved (well, for the most part he’s loved it…).

But there’s always been that responsibility his father instilled in him from the moment he told him to carry Sam outside as fast as he can. His one real job, even above the hunting, has been to watch out for Sam. He still feels responsible for Sam, even though they’re both in their 30′s (and Dean’s pushing 40 now…). Is that REALLY his primary responsibility in life? I mean, of course he loves his brother, but should he forever put Sam’s needs and wishes BEFORE his own? Or, conversely, override Sam’s own wishes in service to that old “watch out for Sammy, you have to save him” mantra that John burdened him with in 2.01? That’s something he’s beginning to learn, beginning back in s11, and continuing into s12.

I think Dean realizes that hunting is where he belongs. Going back to 11.04, Sam asking him if he ever thought about settling down with someone in the life. Like, finding a romantic partner to share the life with. I.e., hunting with someone other than Sam. Implying that SAM had thought about this, too, for himself.

Conveniently, Sam meets a really lovely female hunter who he has a lot of instant chemistry with just seven episodes later (hello, Eileen!). But at the time in 11.04, Dean denies having considered it a real possibility for him. Despite having said something along those exact same lines in 10.16.

How much have I written about 11.11 and Dean’s heart-to-heart with Mildred about sunsets, and pining for someone, and… right. Okay. (there’s nearly 200 posts in that episode tag fyi. I’m not even gonna CONSIDER diving in there to pull references, or I’ll be there all night :P).

In 11.17 he gets the lesson hammered home that he can’t just throw away his own life in exchange for Sam’s. For the first time in his life, he’s confronted with the absolute fact that Sam’s life is not cosmically more important than his own. He doesn’t want Sam to suffer or die or to have to carry undue burdens on his soul (like the Mark of Cain… >.>), but that’s a reasonable thing to feel. It’s NOT reasonable to try to spend the rest of his life standing as that human shield between Sam and the rest of the world either, though, and he’s finally starting to understand that.

Then in 11.19 Dean makes a real breakthrough and FINALLY admits out loud and in front of Sam that he’s curious about what it’s like settling down with another hunter. He asks this of two men who are married to each other. Again, in front of Sam.

The s11 finale was ALL ABOUT CHUCK AND AMARA FINDING THEIR PLACE in a strange way. Not Chuck hiding out on Earth pretending to be something he’s not (a Dean mirror…), not Amara locked away somewhere like a prisoner, nor destroying all of creation in retaliation. It was all about balance, brought about by Dean Winchester.

So, that leaves us in Dean’s current situation. Mary’s suddenly alive again after all these years, Sam’s been hurt and taken by ??? and Cas was true to his word and stuck around.

Not only that, but Cas seems just as fierce and determined as Dean to get Sam back. Aah, brotherly feelings! Because THAT’S how Cas has learned (from Dean) that you take care of your brother. And really, I think that’s how Cas does see Sam. As a brother. It’s been a long time since he’s referred to Sam as the Boy with the Demon Blood, or “an abomination.” And Cas’s journey since borrowing Jimmy’s body and popping into that barn to say hi to Dean has also been about his friendship (and kinship) with Sam.

(I mean, just look at 9.11, THEY BOND OVER HOW SIMILAR THEY ARE! THEY TALK ABOUT HOW BOTH ANGELS AND WINCHESTERS CAN GROW AND CHANGE!)

I know this has largely been about Dean to this point, but when I started writing, I had no idea how much I really had to say on the subject. I was going to do a similar “this is your life” sort of segment for Sam, but It’s almost impossible to talk about Dean without pulling in relevant tidbits about Sam. So I’m gonna spend a (hopefully!) shorter amount of time talking about Sam here, specifically.

When Sam first met Cas, he was in awe of angels. Unlike Dean, he’d always had faith in a higher power. (He’d also always had Dean as a human shield against some of the worst of their young lives, which probably contributed to his ability to maintain that faith in what otherwise could’ve been a completely faith-destroying life… I mean, see Dean himself for the obvious compare/contrast here).

Sam had always felt “other.” The freak. Not even really all human. Living on the fringes of society yet wanting desperately to fit in and just be normal. He hated his life, hated hunting, hated not being normal. And then his powers kicked online and amped that feeling up to 11.

Poor Sam has spent so much of the series being the object of the supernatural that the only times he ever even tried to run away from the life he just got pulled right back in. He tried to run once during the Apocalypse, but that didn’t even last more than a few days before he was forced back in (in 5.03/5.04). The closest he got to escaping into normalcy was during early s8 while Dean was in Purgatory.

Nothing says family like the whole family being dead.

He drifted around the country aimlessly until he hit a dog.

He seemed to settle in for a brief time, but then suddenly Dean was back, reminding him that he had a duty to protect Kevin, and he’d failed. He’d never told Amelia ANYTHING about his life before he’d met her. Well, nothing REAL, anyway. Not the truth. Nothing about hunting or monsters or anything. So when his history finally caught up with him, his choice was an either/or. He couldn’t have both (not even like Dean had tried to do with Lisa, since she did know the truth about him. Sam wouldn’t burden Amelia with it, despite having demanded as his dying wish that Dean burden Lisa with it all…)

So Sam was adrift again, even though he had Dean by his side. Even though he had the bunker as a home base. It WASN’T a proper home by his standards. It wasn’t enough.

Enter the trials, enter Gadreel, enter the fight against the Mark, enter the Darkness… and finally Enter God.

(also enter Dean spending a month or so pining away and driving himself bonkers trying to save Cas from Lucifer)

And then… God couldn’t just snap his fingers and make this better. In fact, God was kind of a jerk. Or, at least, God was really freaking limited in his own ability to change. That’s one of the drawbacks of being absolute.

Free will is not included in the kit.

But Sam? Sam’s got it. And he chooses to exercise it LIKE A BOSS. SAM FUCKING WINCHESTER. CAN I GET AN AMEN!

Sam’s chosen all through s12 to stand up and defend what he believes in. Even in 12.01/12.02 when he felt like he had really nothing left to lose (with Dean gone, Cas banished, the Darkness vanquished), he still didn’t give in to his captors. He kept fighting for himself.

Because he does see the bunker as his home now. He’s also got this weird second chance to get to know his mother in a blank slate sort of way. He’s accepted her terms for how their relationship will proceed, because getting to know her AT ALL had never even been a possibility for him.

And we know he’s spent some time thinking about his future (his little retirement brochure and his box of memories). He’s spent time wondering what it might be like settling down with a hunter. He’s begun archiving the MoL records to make them accessible. He’s got a way to keep one foot in hunting and still have a relatively settled life. And he finally got Lucifer locked back up in the cage. He’s got hope for the future.

(well, he did until they got arrested by the secret service and tossed into some sort of black site)

Now on to Cas.

Castiel, Angel of the Lord. Arguably the most fascinating character progression in the history of television. He began as a completely alien being who was just rebellious enough and empathetic enough and curious enough to be swayed by humanity. Yes, he had a history of defying orders going back millennia, but he’s also been labeled as having “too much heart.” What a wonderful problem for an angel to have.

From wrathful soldier of heaven to homeless human struggling to survive, he’s experienced so much. And he’s been open to every last experience. He’s let humanity touch him and change him, all the while fighting to do the right thing for Heaven and Earth. He’s made some catastrophic mistakes along the way, and the weight of that guilt has affected him even more.

I saw a post earlier today about the line from the See Evil promo, where Dean says Cas is his best friend. Below that is an image of the “Friends to Lovers” tag from AO3. Because yeah, I mean, isn’t that the next logical step here? Their entire story has been a Strangers to Associates to Enemies to Associates to Friends to Associates to Enemies to Associates to Friends to whateverthefuck they were in Purgatory to Friends to Close Really Close Friends to Awkwardly Asking Out And Getting Rejected But Staying Heartbroken Friends to Bitter Exes to Friends to Brothers to “everyone you love will be long dead except for me” to ~Brothers~ to Old Married People Having A Spat Over How Much Cas Travels For Work With Dean’s Ex.

It’s ridiculous.

*glances up at this ridiculous post trying to determine if I’ve addressed your question even a little bit and realizes this is gonna have to go under a cut. WTF, self?*

Cas’s ENTIRE HISTORY ON THE SERIES, ALL OF IT, HAS BEEN A JOURNEY OF “FINDING HIS PLACE.”

I just watched 4.20 yesterday. That’s where I am in my current rewatch. He’s been struggling with what’s right, with what he should do, with where he should entrust his loyalty. Heaven’s orders don’t feel right. There’s something fishy going on up there, and his loyalty was wavering. After getting pulled back to Boot Camp for reprogramming, he tells Dean that he serves Heaven, not humanity, and CERTAINLY not Dean…

Well, it only takes him two more episodes to turn that around and tear up the script. For Dean.

THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN CAS’S JOURNEY.

As much as Sam has been manipulated by the universe, Cas has too. (remember what I said about Sam and Cas in 9.11? Yeah, that.)

Well as much as Sam and Cas have in common, the relationship between Cas and Dean has NEVER looked like that. There’s always been a distinct difference between how Cas and Sam relate to one another, and how Cas and Dean relate to one another.

But Dean being Dean, who doesn’t feel like he deserved to be saved, doesn’t have any clue what to do with an Angel of the Lord who put his faith in Dean. And Cas doesn’t have any clue what to do with this man who has called him brother and best friend, both of which taste a little bit like a lie, or at least not entirely like the truth.

(see previous comment about Old Married Couple, yet with neither of them realizing it)

I realized a few minutes ago that I’ve already written something about Cas’s entire journey (as it stood over the summer hiatus after s11), and how he’s always been headed toward this huge choice: Do you want to live as an angel, or as a man? I’d go digging for it, but *scrolls up through this entirely too long already post* I think I’ve spent enough time on this.

Cas has struggled with these HUGE questions. He’s tried to do what was right. He’s tried to reconcile his duty to heaven with the original mission God set for the angels to protect humanity. He’s met God himself and seen the entire story of creation resolve itself. And now? Now where does he belong? His story’s been paralleled to Mary’s this season. Mary who feels out of place and time and disconnected from the world, yet is tied to it by blood and family and humanity. Cas feels out of place because of WHAT he is, because he’s not human or blood (even if he is family… or whatever he reads into Dean’s assertions that he has a place with them, in their home, with the Winchesters).

It’s all about family, what makes family, and finding out how they all fit into each others’ lives. If given the choice, what would each of them decide to do?

TL/DR? Basically my point is this is nothing new. This has always been the story, no matter what the “bigger problems” they’ve faced over the years have been. It’s just become a much more tangible and dynamic part of the story in the last season or so. Meaning it’s become more important, if anything. For Dean, for Sam, and for Cas.

Take any of those three out of the story, and the whole structure collapses. They’re all equally important here. I don’t think anyone who says different has a leg to stand on. I don’t know what the fuck show they’re watching, but it’s definitely not Supernatural.

Not sure if I even really addressed the original message here, but I’ve been typing this for a couple of hours now, so I guess I’ve officially typed myself out. :P