#natsuhi's crazy interesting to me

[colourful-void]

umineko sliding scale as of rn for me to how sympathetic i find each character (not necessarily how much i like, just like. i get where they're coming from) as of right now bcs theres like a bunch more of the story so its bound to change.

"i was born to understand your visions" -> maria and shannon "i really feel for you here" -> natsuhi and kanon "yeah, i get it" -> kumasawa, jessica, kirie "parts of you i cannot resonate with, but others i am either compelled by or can understand" -> battler and rosa "no paticular thoughts" -> genji, the doctor i forgot his name, "more of you i dont sympathize with than i do, but there's still elements" -> eva, hideyoshi "you're gonna have to show me something more for me to understand where you're coming from" -> gohda, krauss, rudolf "i dont sympathize with you (as i understand you now.) -> george and kinzo

beatrice exists outside the scale bcs i dont understand anything shes got going on but i am compelled. maybe once let sjust let her win i wanna see where this goes

[whensomethingelsecries]

natsuhi's death scene is given such dignity in episode 1 it makes me so crazy. she is challenged to an honorable duel, gets one last badass monologue in before the shot is fired, and she is literally compared to the heroine of a tragedy under a stage spotlight when her body is found. whatever is contained within beatrice's letter to her is kept private, as is natsuhi's original sin of 19 years ago. she's not a perfect person by any means, but episode 1 is such a charitable and empathetic portrayal of natsuhi it just Fascinates me knowing who wrote it all

even kicking out the servants and maria was cruel and callous, but she was also technically batting a thousand as far as identifying accomplices in that situation. it was harsh but it's not like kinzo's study would have been any safer come midnight. not that it makes sending a 9 year old out with the proverbial wolves any better, but like. this is a story yasuda is telling us while knowing full well that being forced out into the parlor was a lateral move

i think a lot too about episode 1 granting natsuhi a meeting with her idealized kinzo. obviously that scene didn't literally happen and you could be bernkastel about it and end your thinking there. but i think a lot about what yasuda meant by including that meeting, where natsuhi is told she belongs here and is more deserving of honor than some members of the family, in between bouts of verbal abuse from eva about "knowing her place"

it's just very interesting how much empathy is extended to natsuhi in spite of the. history there. and it does make some sense after growing up seeing the sheer amount of shit natsuhi has dealt with and faced in her life (and having spoken with her casually enough that natsuhi has told shannon her favorite season and no one else?) yasuda really did develop an understanding of the position she was in

not even to mention the references to natsuhi's infertility being a large factor in her being mistreated and belittled by other members of the family, including multiple asides in the narration about ushiromiya women being viewed as borrowed wombs and treated as subhuman if they can't fill that role.......i think it's easy to imagine that there is some kinship felt there even if natsuhi is, directly or indirectly, literally responsible for yasuda's own infertility

not really going anywhere with this i just think ep1 natsuhi is SO fucking interesting in what all of it implies about yasuda's own complicated feelings towards her

[misarem]

umineko episode 2 impressions

......thoughts? im like 30 hours into this its kinda not impressions time anymore but idk.

This episode really was so much crazier than the last and while i thought the first was pretty well done, everything in this from the new twists and beatrices cruelty had me together in just the right way and it feels like the games really clicking for me now. feel like im getting a bit more into the mysteries too and im excited to keep going but i have to organize my thoughts first. obv spoilers

right off the bat i like the different approach in showing the two days, contextualizing them with moments between different parts of the family beforehand. i really liked the stuff with Jessica performing (love parts of vns like this, reminded me of ibuki mioda in sdr2) and i thought her thing with Kanon, while im not a huge fan of it, i find it more palatable with them being a lot closer in age than the other cousin maid pairing and i just think its sweet in general the way they care for each other despite getting shit from their respective families/groups. on the other hand, i had forgotten this in the first episode and i still like George but ok wow his relationship with Shannon is creepy. I can get over that kinda thing in a game when its addressed meaningfully but im wondering if its just gonna like be taken as a given like battler making advances to his cousins or if its gonna be addressed cuz like. i think they do have sort of a nice affection for each other and i want Shannon to be happy with a partner but i forgot shes like 6 or 7 years younger than him and him like half seriously ordering her as his servant to be with him is like yeesh dude. it does make an interesting contrast with George being the more mature cousin and playing along with their power dynamic just to make things smoother while Jessica is younger and more aspirational, wanting Kanon to be on the same level as her. well see what happens later on ig.

speaking of forgetting how bad some characters could be WOW this was a major chapter for Rosa. we immediately see how cruel she is to Maria and, ig fitting for episode 2, its almost like two sides to Rosa are established. but its so obvious the demure side of Rosa is influenced by the same upbringing that created her abusive side and as hard as it is to watch her hit maria its also just like so immediately painfully real how Rosa got to this point. not to get too personal and i think lots of people have this parental baggage nowadays but having spent years coping with verbal and emotional abuse from my own mother and having to face the harsh reality that shes not simply a shitty person and having to live with her own family and husband made her that way, and having to learn how to worry for and pity someone that you have, almost hard coded resentment for at this point. yea Rosa in this chapter just hits incredibly hard, and i gleamed from chapter 1 that a youngest child who isnt taken as seriously having abuse tendencies would be a lot to watch, i really had no idea how severe it would be. her ending with Maria this chapter was insane, just a perfect encapsulation of how bittersweet their feelings were, and the "only one mama/maria" line was a crazy moment of maturity for Maria too. im really wondering about her still cuz after the murders start its kinda easy to like write her off as a presence similar to the witches but she keeps showing different facets of herself in the briefest moments. i do think she and Battler will make it to the tenth twilight every episode tho no matter what happens to everyone else. also for Rosa, the tea party was just sick thats all ill say.

as for other predictions, just by pattern recognition the easiest guess for me is that one set of parents will be spared every first twilight just to see more of them during the 5th. so far it was George's parents (and natsuhi) surviving the first episode and Maria's parent surviving ep2, so im wondering if Battler and Jessica's parents will concurrently follow. also wondering if, following Natsuhi and Rosa, Kyrie and Eva will make it close to the end next. maybe one ep will be an inverse of the first and Eva survives along with Jessica's parents while Hideyoshi dies first. Eva and Hideyoshi seem to have a nice relationship and it would be interesting to see one without the other, and I can definitely see Eva going crazy without her husband. I mainly just hope Kyrie makes it far and gives us more insight and character cuz shes just so cool. Altho maybe she's just meant to die every time, imparting her wisdom on Battler who uses it to poetically avenge her. considering Battler himself has some Phoenix Wright dna in his writing, it wouldnt be surprising if Kyrie ended up being his Mia Fey (ig that kinda makes Maria like Pearl).

Other than that I'm not sure how things will shake out. for the murders themselves, while I dont have the other locked rooms figured out, the idea that someone took the chapel key and then placed it back into Maria's bag after resealing the envelope danced around in my mind before Battler and Beato even started arguing, since I thought if Rosa could do it and the means to make a wax seal were on the island, anyone could. I almost feel like I dont have enough info for the others but I could be seeing it wrong. Either way I love the argument style that Battler and Beato take up midway thru this chapter, with the red text rule constantly evolving as Battler and Beato take turns seizing it for their own advantage, and I cant wait for them to debate even more. Also. cannot stress this enough. absolutely next level voice acting from Sayaka Ohara. Every witch cackle and comeback and "USHIROMIYA BAAATTLEEEEEEER" is just unbelievable and i never ever get tired of hearing her line reads. Hell Ive gone to the log several times just to hear her again cuz I tend to have an itchy text advance finger. Just incredible.

Back to the story tho, I'm also kinda confused with the order of murders vs the order of twilights, with Nanjo and Kumasawa dying before George, Shannon and Gohda but having the 7th and 8th twilights, while the latter trio had 4, 5 and 6 (not in that order but you know). Wonder what the significance is and how itll come up, of course you can gouge a knee and leg of a dead body but it seems weird esp if the command "gouge the _ and kill" is meant to be taken literally in that order. i think that they werent marked as dead in the character page until their bodies were discovered too even tho their throats were cut on screen which is also kinda suspicious even tho I think Kanon and Jessica mightve been the same? Its actually hard to check that since my set up for Umineko Project on steam deck is kinda finnicky and the mouse doesnt always register like it should so i have a hard time clicking things. Still something to keep an eye on. Regardless i thought the death order was a lot more interesting with Rosa having to take the lead and the family and servants factioning off, even at the end where among the surviving family group, Rosa still found a way to make things hard for Battler and im wondering if smth like this would happen again like George taking Shannon and going against him or smth.

before i wrap up heres how my tier list shifted. since more witches are being introduced ill find a bigger one next episode but not much has changed. i still like George but hes going down in the fucked up category. and Genji and Gohda didnt have a huge impression on me previously but they rlly grew on me with Genji showing his devotion and Gohda not being as much as an asshole and growing closer to Kanon and Shannon. I have a butler bias and a big dude bias so that along with how pathetic and desperate he comes off kinda pulled me to him more even tho hes a lot of side character comic relief. And Shannon was just really nice this episode.

Last thing is the ??? segment which is basically just the witches segment. I knew Bernkastel (and Erika Furudo) clearly had something to do with Rika Furude but after posting the first episode impressions I realized Lambdadelta resembles Satoko Hojo a bit, and with what I know watching sparse clips of the Higurashi series from 2020 that had a lot of time loop fuckery, and with Bern and Lambda having a rivalry and recent conflict, it makes me wonder if Higurashi and Umineko are connected that way. The thing is tho I havent seen Higurashi in full at all. I do wanna play it at some point after this but Umineko just appealed to me way more and I couldnt help myself. Still i think its interesting. I've already seen more abt Beato from the peek I took of episode 3 and i cant wait to not only jump in but to see how my opinions and predictions keep changing

[construingseacats]

Umireread: Legend of the Golden Witch - Chapter 4: Dining Room

Sat, Oct 4 1986 - 1:30PM

The following contains spoilers for the entirety of Umineko. Please do not read if you are yet to finish it.

Starting out with some new character information in the menu!

You don’t really get to see it in the main game, but man, what is with Shannon’s dress gap? I suppose it’s so we can see the tattoo of the One Winged Eagle, but it’s such an awkward way to show it off. Probably shouldn’t worry too much about this kind of stuff this early into the story - we haven’t even got to the leotard army yet.

There’s a line here about Krauss and Natsuhi thinking that Genji is a spy for Kinzo - which is a pretty astonishing thing to see, since it means we’re just straight up allowed to lie in this section. It’s unreliable narrators all the way down.

I suppose it necessarily has to be lying for Kinzo though, I suppose. Talking about designs again, it’s pretty neat how Kinzo is basically wearing the same fit as Battler, going with the white suit and red undershirt. Reflections etcetera etcetera

Anyway - I’m excited for this chapter, but hoo boy, do I remember it being rough the first time round. It’s one of those ones where the inheritance discussion is important, but I remember my eyes glazing over due to how long it was taking to get to the point.

Speaking of taking too long to get to the point - god we’re still going with the intros huh? It feels kind of weird since we’ve now met all these characters already, but I guess I should be grateful that we didn’t have these all frontloaded earlier.

Kinzo beat his children and raised them with an iron fist, eh? Well, at least we know Rosa is a true Ushiromiya then.

Oh I remember none of this. Turns out my memories of being bored numb by this chapter were hiding even more stuff that I’d buried deep.

I honestly do like how much of the early information regarding Kinzo and his actions are done to paint him as crazy and illogical, to drive you towards the “mad dark sorcerer” angle rather than make you stop and consider why he would do something like this. I don’t think anyone would necessarily be able to piece together all the information regarding the war and his acquisitions afterwards, but you could probably make good headway towards a theory regarding it if you managed to look past what the text was driving you towards. There’s just so much misdirection here, you really need to grab that the story is intentionally trying to point you towards falsehoods at every opportunity, you can’t just sit back and enjoy the ride. I love it.

This is our one allotted Magical Godha Chef. I’m making no promises on limiting later mentions of Gohdatrice.

This is another scene that didn’t stick with me from the first read, and man, is this dinner scene gratuitous in a bad way. There’s just so much detail… Sure, it’s letting you see how people interact with one another, but couldn’t we have done that in a more interesting way?

Yasu continues to be down bad. Extensively.

God, we really are just describing a boring meal here, huh? At least Gohda is happy. That makes one of us.

I’d forgotten how hard they pushed Natsuhi’s headaches this early on. She feels a little too one-note, but I suppose that’s intentional - reflecting her inferior position in the family and all that.

You heard it here first folks, self-insert Mary Yasue is flawless at everything else.

And here we go! The real meat and potatoes of this chapter!

Rudolf shushing Kyrie is neat to see. We’ve already basically shown that she’s the real brains behind the operation, but the Ushiromiya caste system overrides all sensibility. There’s really no reason Rudolf would even want to be doing the talking here over Kyrie, but it’s what we’re getting regardless.

It’s really interesting seeing the different tells that each character has for lying. Jessica tries to cope with snark, Nanjo just sighs. Part of me wants to actively keep track of various tells and see if they show up at any particular illuminatory points.

woah mega episode 8 foreshadowing confirmed

I honestly wonder how many of the adults are suspecting that Kinzo is already dead at this point. There was a point in the previous chapter where Krauss offered Rudolf the chance to go and knock for him, but Rudolf declined, so I’m wondering whether that’s a case of Rudolf not knowing the truth, knowing the truth but wanting to keep the facade, or another case of this tale being penned with a near miss that would have potentially unravelled the plot.

Natsuhi is really not holding her own in this scene. Poor girl being constantly stressed through the wazoo.

You know, they made a point about how Kinzo’s wife had normal, black hair, and Kinzo had silver hair even in his youth, so I wonder whether Krauss being light-haired and Jessica being blonde lent credence to the idea that Beatrice was some kind of mistress for Kinzo. The fact that my immediate thoughts are about Krauss’ hair colour are probably a good indicator of how much my attention is drifting in this scene.

Don’t get me wrong, I like the character dynamics on show here, and the inheritance discussion is a crucial part of the story. In fact, I like how everyone is getting pretty balanced screen time, with everyone getting something to say without being overshadowed by someone else (unless that’s done narratively, a la Natsuhi and Rosa). But there’s an awful lot of skirting around the point for what can be summed up pretty succinctly as “Krauss is funnelling funds”.

Eva swinging with some major Beatrice vibes right now.  I’m looking forward to digging into the Evatrice stuff in Episode 3.

Very quick follow up on the earlier line about Eva’s weapons being her lower body, going as far as to have George to get a leg up on her siblings. Although, let’s be real, her real weapon has to be her mouth at this point - frighteningly effective at arguing.

Even if Kumasawa is talking about Natsuhi here, she’s sure doing this a lot, isn’t she? You could apply this line and sentiment fairly readily to Yasu as well.

Oh wow, we end the chapter here? I’m kind of glad that the inheritance discussion got split in half, because I don’t want to think about how long this one segment would be without a breather in the middle. I suppose we'll see how part 2 compares to part 1.

[froqgy]

How far are you gotten into umineko so far? what are your thoughts on it

i'm only on episode 2! i haven't played since july, but i've been meaning to return.. i have seen some of chapter 3 and i know like 2 things from episode 4... and i then i got spoiled on like the major spoiler ever i think oops. but i don't know how it connects together you know

(thoughts/spoilers below) (i mention this there but just in case, please don't confirm or deny anything🙏)

i really like it so far :-) and i think it'll do crazy shit to me when i get further in LOL. very high expectations that i think will be met. i really liked ep 1 even when i've heard people complain about the airport scene being too long LOL but i really like how scary the ch is.. before all the magic really comes in it's a weird murder mystery about a fucked up family. well it still is but yknow.

the family drama is suuuuper fun. everyone has problems. and the writing feels very very real. it also is super super enhanced by the AMAZING voice acting which i have to bring up everytime umineko is brought up because i couldn't imagine experiencing umineko without it. the voice actors really put their all into it.

the only pitfall for me is just how the george/shannon pairing i believe is never criticized from the lens of adult dating a teen :-( i was told george gets.. something coming but that it's never touched specifically on how fucked that she is a kid and he is an adult... so for a game i'm pretty certain the major theme is cycle of abuse (familial includ spouses...child servants..) and how misogyny (included internalized) plays into that, and maybe even breaking that cycle.. so it's like gah. yeah. please don't confirm or deny any of this, i will see ultimately how this all plays out!

another note, the way the teen girls are drawn (i am using original sprites, they are my favorite style, but this applies to them all)..ESPECIALLY shannon, is sexualized :-( and knowing what 'official' sexy merch is out there.. so that just kinda dilutes the point for me. but yeah maaan. whatever.

i'm very excited to get to ep 3 :-) sorry ep 2... can you hurry it up LOL. but it's beato's debut chapter so it's okay. but eva is a very interesting character for me esp when she gets the evatrice lens. eva vs natsuhi epic rap battles of who can have more internalized misogyny.

my beloved beato.. she is the world's most specialest.

[kyuu-rereads-umineko]

Ep5, ???? (Part 2)

And so our detective declares that all the clues have been presented.

Okay, not quite, but still.

Battler reflects on having reached the “peak of Mount Purgatory,” then immediately thinks about how Beato’s “an idiot.” It was in Ep6 that Battler describes the two of them as “two idiots who failed to reach each other,” wasn’t it?

He wakes up in the cathedral, still impaled, and finds Beato snuggled up against him, only for her to dissolve when he tries to hold her.

I’ve always been inclined to read Beato’s death in the Meta-World here as a parallel to what happened on Rokkenjima Prime - Even though Prime!Battler got an opportunity to talk to Yasu face-to-face, and even though he reached her heart (as Tohya, years later), he was too late to actually save her. No matter what he says or does, in the Meta-World or in the aftermath of the disaster, nothing can change the fact that she died.

To be clear, I’m not laying all the blame for that on Battler. It’s not as if Yasu killed herself simply because he vanished for six years. In terms of the Rokkenjima Prime tragedy, I feel like - in many ways - he was essentially in the wrong place at the wrong time. 

In terms of Beato’s - Yasu’s - Meta-World death, though, I’m more inclined to label him as culpable. Again, though, it’s not as if the blame is entirely his - I feel that his biggest sin is just not thinking. In Tea Party 4, for instance, he’s not trying to solve Beato’s game so much as he’s just throwing out random ideas to see what sticks. He laughs off his infamous small bombs theory just as readily as Beato does.

Also, it’s only really in ????5 - as seen in the previous post - that he starts to think about why the fantasy scenes exist beyond “to convince me a witch exists,” or about what the implications of someone witnessing magic are. While Yasu might be at fault for making her riddles too hard - and I do understand where he’s coming from in saying that - Battler’s at fault for not thinking about what she might be trying to tell him.

At any rate. Battler cries and laments the fact that he was too late. “You believed so strongly, didn’t you...? That I’d... definitely reach the truth...?”

To be honest, though, the way he flips back and forth between “BEATO YOU IDIOT” and “IT’S ALL MY FAULT” feels very genuine to me. It’s an interesting contrast to his “YOU’RE THE MURDERER STOP BLAMING MEEEEEEEEEEEEE” spiel in Ep4.

Battler clutches the last piece of Beato he can reach - a golden butterfly wing - and swears to himself to “never again lose the truth.”

Meanwhile, in... the exact same place? META GONNA META

Anyways, Erika’s laughing at Battler’s corpse (charming), when the red longsword impaling him suddenly turns gold and he starts sputtering back to life. Bern thinks it’s a joke on Lambda’s part, but she’s just as awestruck as Bern.

Lambda accepts Battler’s request for a retrial, and acknowledges him as “the new Endless Sorcerer.” In terms of the Meta-World, Battler’s now the one holding the key to the catbox.

Battler is officially recognized as the new “territory lord” of the kakera, and by extension, as the new Game Master. Erika screeches, obviously not happy about having her title taken away from her so soon after earning it.

“...I can construct a theory with someone other than Natsuhi oba-san as the culprit. It may be that your truth is impossible to disprove... If so, that means your truth won’t be able to deny my new truth either!”

Dlanor steps forward. “...Battler, I’ve been WAITING.” i may not be able to stand erika but dlanor is soooo goood

“Lady Erika’s reasoning has solved the 5th GAME. No new facts exist which can overturn the truth created by this reasoning...!!” Battler counters with the catbox.

He then proceeds to lay out his theory wherein he’s the culprit, citing Rudolf’s weird behaviour in Ep1 and 5, and his inability to declare Asumu his mother in Ep4 as proof. Y’know, while the whole “Battler’s mother” plot point never really intrigued me that much compared to the rest of the story, I feel like the payoff for it was kinda underwhelming, at least in how it was delivered? Even from early on, it’s easy to see how Battler takes after Kyrie - if it weren’t for the narrative explicitly saying otherwise, I’d have thought she was his mother from the very beginning.

Having said that, to be honest, I really appreciate how the payoff isn’t something ridiculously convoluted, like Battler being Beato’s direct sibling or something (yes I know Yasu is his blood relative, but still). Rudolf’s babyswap is a lot more feasible than some of the other options.

At any rate, Erika steps forward and starts laying out the immediate problem with the Battler culprit theory - the time of the first twilight’s murders. “It’s only possible for the crime to have taken place between 24:00 and 1:00!! During that one hour, you were in the dining hall of the mansion!! [...] From 1:00 until the discovery of the crime, it was impossible for the crime to occur in the cousins’ room!!”

Battler counters with the proposition that they were still alive at the time. Episode 5 really is one of the rudest episodes to the reader, as such - not only is there the constant “detective’s viewpoint” trick, but there are things like Erika checking the cousins’ room without verifying the bodies. Coupled with how Lambda’s going crazy with the narrative, it’s incredibly easy to get lost and overwhelmed.

“How often do I have to say it?! The deaths of the four people in the cousins’ room have been proclaimed with the red truth!! Furthermore, those corpses were witnessed by a large number of people!! It’s already been proclaimed in red that no examination of these corpses would lead to a mistaken result...!! Take that, dead people!!!” EVERY TIME I READ THIS LINE I START LAUGHING HYSTERICALLY

Ronove appears and points out that the deaths were only announced at the opening of the trial - in other words, at the very end of the game, which leaves the “corpses” unverified for almost 24 hours.

“It may be true that all corpses would not lead to a mistaken examination, no matter who it was that checked to see whether they were alive... but it has never been said that there was a rule against something other than a corpse being called a corpse.”

Erika asks why Battler screamed if no one was dead, and Gaap appears with “Kinzo’s already dead,” undermining Erika’s theory on how the bodies disappeared.

One by one, the Stakes appear, declaring that none of the victims of the first twilight were moved after their deaths. Dlanor steps forward, declaring Knox’s 2nd in red, stating that Battler needs proof of Kinzo’s death to invalidate Erika’s theory.

“Presentation of evidence. I’ll present a corpse which could possibly be identified as Ushiromiya Kinzo’s...!!” Dlanor counters that he has to prove it’s Kinzo’s corpse for it to work, and Bern cackles at how he’s cornered - red truth’s been forbidden as proof, leaving him without anywhere to run to.

“How are you gonna prove that the corpse was Kinzo’s if the red truth is sealed? It’s impossible. It can’t be done...!!” “...With red or blue... right...?”

“I guarantee, without a doubt, that this is Ushiromiya Kinzo’s corpse!!” Dlanor concedes, while the witches (and Erika) are left speechless.

“...Gold truth, effective. The gold truth... can only be used by the territory lord of this world... no, only by the Game Master himself...!!”

Dlanor “elaborates” that the gold truth is woven “differently’ from the red, and that its strength is situational. I’m inclined - in no small part due to GRS, because I believe this is how they interpreted the gold truth as well - to view gold truth as... How to put it.

For one thing, gold can only be used on a topic if the person talking about it fully understands everything. Battler’s use of gold here is proof that he understands the entirety of Beato’s - Yasu’s - game and heart. In Ep6, when Elder Beato uses gold to declare that Chick Beato used magic to make the flower petal appear in the tea cup, it’s proof that she understands the true form of magic - how it manifests, who can use it, what its limitations are, etc.

As for what the difference is between it and red... While with red, you can’t say anything that’s patently false (e.g. Battler choking on “I was born from Asumu” in Ep4), the gold is less strict. To use Ep6 as an example again - in the context of the “real world,” i.e. no fantasy layer, Chick Beato would use sleight of hand to make the flower petal appear, so “she used magic” is a false statement. However, in the context of magic itself, she did use magic, so the statement is valid. 

Hopefully that makes sense. Anyways, Erika balks, pointing out that she’s still got points to argue on, “like Hideyoshi’s closed room, the seal on Natsuhi’s personal room, and the button in the closet.” The seal on Natsuhi’s room...? Am I forgetting something here?

“Because of this, Grandfather’s absence has been verified, and the dishonourable relationship between Natsuhi oba-san and Grandfather has been removed from consideration!! Natsuhi oba-san is pure and faithful! I won’t permit this vulgar tale you’re all so fond of!!” Aww, Battler... He then points out that everyone else’s alibis are null and void since the times of death are in question.

Dlanor knows she’s lost, but still confronts Battler on his theory, saying, “However, in the cousins’ room, you witnessed corpses which were impossible to MISIDENTIFY! Are you trying to say that was a FALSEHOOD?! Knox’s 7th, it is forbidden for the detective to be the CULPRIT! The detective is obligated to have an objective point of VIEW. Your theory violates this OBLIGATION!”

Battler responds that seeing Kinzo in the rain after solving the epitaph proves his viewpoint was subjective all along. As I think I mentioned earlier, the thing about Ep5 that I think trips people up when it comes to viewpoints and whatnot is that when Battler “sees” Kinzo, while it’s true he’s with Erika, she doesn’t see Kinzo herself, and she wouldn’t be likely to - it’s dark, it’s raining, and she’s focused on the chapel’s mechanism.

On the other hand, when it comes to the number of people in the parlour, there’s no such room for doubt - the chances of hiding in a room packed with so many people are slim to none... except for Yasu, of course. Anyways.

“So, once you claimed to have seen Kinzo, it was no longer misrecognition... but INTENTIONAL. In other words... this proves that the observer wasn’t objective... is what you are SAYING?”

Battler asks Dlanor to forgive him for his “crazy argument.” She replies, “If a man like you is in this WORLD... You will surely protect the fragile truth from any kind of ARROGANCE. You will surely protect the real truth from the tyranny of any plausible truth... that might claim to exist as the sole truth and try to exterminate all fragile TRUTHS!”

Like earlier, Battler doesn’t strike down Dlanor. “I’ve paid my debt. ...Let honour be to your father. The Decalogue was neither arrogant nor judgmental...!” 

And of course Erika screeches about how Dlanor has BROUGHT SHAME upon Knox and whatnot, and Battler basically tells her to stfu. this feels really good to read

Erika still argues back, though she hasn’t addressed the issue of the corpses disappearing. Bern snaps at her, and she hurriedly comes up with an “explanation,” apparently. i... kinda want to know what it is

Bern laughs at Erika’s “pathetic” reasoning, but Dlanor and Battler step in to defend her. battler’s a better person than i am because i don’t think i could do that tbh

“Because there has been no decision, the Illusion of the Witch still exists. The only one who will be permitted to expose that is neither Erika, nor the rest of you... It’s me alone! I won’t let anyone expose Beatrice’s illusion except me!!!” still possessive, battler ur kinzo is showing

Lambda declares Battler the new Game Master, and he challenges Erika one last time. Bern gives her one last chance to redeem herself.

“Just watch, Beato. ...I’ll take charge of your game!! And in this next game, I’ll prove that I completely understand all of your riddles...!!”

And that’s the end of Ep5. Closing thoughts...

Episode 5 is definitely one of the “rudest” episodes to the reader, with how it plays around with viewpoints and concepts like detective’s authority. I’m also inclined to place it as one of the more difficult episodes, if only because of how Lambda and Bern’s influences manifest themselves - The man from 19 years ago instead of Lion, Beato being portrayed as separate from the culprit, Erika’s presence, etc.

On that note, Erika. As much as I hate her, she’s a great character. She’s a personified reminder that searching for a solution isn’t going to get you anywhere. Don’t look for just what’s possible - look for what’s probable and work backwards from there. I don’t think I need to explain Dlanor as a character, because Ep5 is pretty blatant about her purpose.

In a way, while the first line of this post - about our detective announcing “all clues have been shown” - was meant in jest, it’s pretty accurate. Through the first half of the series, Shannon and Kanon are linked very strongly to each other and Beatrice, the nature of their existences and deaths are explored through Maria and Ange, “love” is suggested as a motive for murder on multiple occasions... Being “furniture” is made very distinct and far deeper than being a servant...

On top of that, we’ve not only had the man from 19 years ago formally introduced, but we’ve also:

Had him implied to be hiding among the 18 characters we’ve already met;

Had another motive for the murders provided (Natsuhi commenting that he must have “lived a very hate-filled life”);

And, while this might just be me, I don’t think it’s a stretch to assume that falling from the cliff as a baby left him with a very grievous injury. Coupled with Beato talking about Kanon - a man - “crying himself to sleep” over not having a human body, and the way she attacks Kanon on an emotional basis compared to attacking Shannon - a woman - on a physical basis, I don’t think assuming that “furniture” refers to a physical condition of some sort is much of a stretch.

Really, almost all of it is there. While I can understand why Battler’s deduction and realization seems ridiculous to some people, I don’t feel that way myself.

Anything else... I suppose there’s the question of what actually happens on Ep5′s game board. Frankly, though, this post is getting long enough as-is, so I’ll write a separate post for that. After that, Episode 6! Time to see how good of a writer Battler is.