#my characterization of him throughout the story was very purposeful but now that i'm working to expand that

[quaranmine]

gonna embark on a re-read of IDL but specifically a scar-centric reading where i take notes on everything he says and does

[dailycass-cain]

I was a masochist, because I wanted to see how the story ended (and wanted a the very least to own the Red Hood mini because I do love the creative team with that). So I asked a friend if I could borrow his copies of the issues I don't have. So here are my hopefully FINAL thoughts on Batman/Catwoman: Gotham War.

This was quite possibly the worst Batman x-over in quite some time. From the varying motivations of the main characters to the side characters. Nothing stood out from the beginning to the end.

If any one character comes off as "okay" throughout this event is Jason. Like, he gets the only motivation (again thin as it is), but at the very least he's the one who gets progression in this story.

From helping Selina to seeing how flawed Selina's plan is, to being kidnapped by Bruce then mentally tortured, and still fighting even after it.

Jason is the ONLY main member of the three (or four if you include Vandal) who exits the story still looking clean.

Bruce or Selina? Oh boy... both have some WONKY stuff in this and vary from issue to issue or page to page.

The thing is, this story could've just been easier by taking Selina out entirely and focusing on Bruce vs. the Bat Family.

Like, the entire Bat Family is paper thin in this story and quite possibly some of the worst use of them in a while.

I'm still flabbergasted at how awful Cass was treated in the story with zero character at all. I mean Batman vs. Robin #5 did as well, but even with that story there was a "meaning" to the madness with Cass in that.

She sat out most the main series until THAT issue. She's there along with the rest of the Bat Family to stall the possessed Bruce (which seems to be a recurring theme this entire year) until the mystical characters of the DCU arrive to exorcise him.

For that issue?

It works. I accept the jobbing because it's a mystical demon which is outside her norm (well not anymore).

I still have my issues with Batman vs. Robin, but it was waaay better at telling a story.

Here?

Everyone's appearance in this event is downright laughable and makes zero sense. I'm supposed to accept Cass is okay with Selina's plan throughout this? Even her among other characters gets ZERO voice on why they're on board with this.

A quick fix again would've been when she saw the signs of Bruce's mental instability with the Zur influence growing larger.

Heck, the now INFAMOUS Batman #137. The issue is awful storywise and all it serves is the wrestling equivalent to this with Bruce vs. Cass:

All so Bruce can get a "W" over Cass. Joy. 🙄

When themactically it could've shown Zur's influence that a move Bruce wouldn't be ready for and Zur is.

BUT NOPE. We get that with him against Dick in #138 instead.

I'm not even going into details with the final issue of the event in Batman/Catwoman: Gotham War- Scorched Earth #1.

It just makes everything worse. Bruce passes it all on Dick and um yeah… none of the female characters of the family get ANY say. 🙃🙃🙃

I said last month I'm dropping Batman ongoing from my pull, and I'm sticking with that choice with Tec replacing it fully. I just don't enjoy the comic any longer. When you don't enjoy a comic you cut it off and don't continue to read it for any enjoyment purposes.

Literally, Cass's entire point in Batman run so far has been to job. There has been ZERO characterization for the character. Why I dibbed Cass in this "Card Cain". If you're gonna treat the character that way, well.

I'm out.

Detective Comics is giving me a better story of Bruce falling out mentally, and better-crafted antagonists who feel like a threat to him and others.

I'm more hype for Cass in that because it feels like the book treats each character better. EVERYONE gets to shine.

Batman/Catwoman: Gotham War burned me the heck out of the two leads. Again, I'm far more interested in what happens with Jason next and glad his "mini-series" basically turned into a setup for the finale to the current Joker: The Man Who Stopped Laughing ongoing.

Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to put my friend's copies downstairs. Probably tell him next Thurs to bury them in his bins never to be read, or just sell this as a bundle for some poor soul to buy.

I hope this is the final time I ever talk about Batman/Catwoman: Gotham War.

Save for Card Cain. I can't hate Card Cain.

[a-weird-writer]

What are your honest thoughts on the thing I found on Asura and Taishakuten?

(A TLDR is at the end, this very quickly turned into a rant, hope you don't mind. I said some things.)

Ashura - Japanese Wiki Corpus (japanese-wiki-corpus.org)

Lots of shit to unpack there I'll say that first XD.

Reading articles like this is one of my favorite pastimes but damn, know what I mean? Shouldn't be surprised at the numerous symbolism and religious references, how long it really stretches back; Buddhism has loads to unravel, and the lore is miles long thanks to the historical "changes" throughout the centuries. Makes sense, things change and slowly get lost to time, bound for some grey areas.

Taishakuten seems to act douche supreme both in game and canon mythology. Surprised to find out he was a high-class god of war himself, I can already tell its complicated, like how a majority of myths like to be.

I respect how the original stories reflect in game, intentional or not, they did good research. Gotta gets some things correct.

Despite this, its overall logic is pretty ridiculous. And I am not talking about magic.

The betrayal for one thing, is weird. From how it was set up, the deities were on decent terms, until the whole, Taishakuten stealing Asura's daughter incident. From what I understand he just took her out of the blue? What is the reason exactly? Because Asura wanted her to marry Taishakuten? Asura already wanted her to marry him, it looks like he already knew that too. So, what was the purpose of the sudden kidnapping? It was absolutely useless, the idol master of your people, a literal leader of heaven just outright taking you like that. Away from your loving family and household. I am doubtful Sachi much appreciated it. And what about her feelings as well? No say at all. It doesn't mention anywhere she didn't want to marry Taishakuten, and I'm confident it was hammered in her head how glamorous of a god he is. I don't know how it works in Hindu or India, my knowledge on their cultures and structure is very vague (I know their gender roles are different from America's), but really?

Seems to mention it as a law thing in their realm.

It barely makes any sense. Because Asura did permit him? Did he have second thoughts at the last minute? Read everything I said above.

On another hand what is up with myths and abducting people? Stealing and shitting on brides like what the fuck? Crazy mythos. I don't blame Asura for his anger, Taishakuten asked for war on that one.

But man, I quickly cringed when I was nearing toward the end.

The part about ants confused me the most. So what? Asura, seriously, this man stole your child and raised a whole ass army against you for next to no justifiable reason when you understandably tried to return her home, but now you're magically showing him "sympathy" when he "mercifully" stopped to avoid stomping on ants?

Stomping on ants? On ants?!

Asura, I love you; I really do, your characterization is one of the most interesting and expressive plots in the series. And myths are far from realistic, that is why they called them myths. But they all run on some sort of common ground and humane moral telling, making them a joy to read and relatable enough. Kidnapping is evil, your child was taken, ok that's bad. We all agree you know that's some evil stuff, even for a "demon". And now, you're going after the King who wronged you, perfectly logical and fair. Well-deserved on Taishakuten's part in all this.

But while your daughter was being kidnapped (A victim of "indecent conduct" in other versions of the story mind you), you stopped in the middle of a damn war after her...because you considered ant life more valuable...literally just fucking ants.

You were more afraid of crushing ants, mere bugs who literally got no beef with you, then rescuing and saving your daughter. Your own flesh and blood.

Wow, I never thought I'd drop all interest in a character from only a single sentence.

Maybe it is best for Sachi to stay far as fuck away from every single one of you. Ya'll got issues. Issues she doesn't need to deal with.

TLDR; Asura did nothing wrong, all he wants is his family back together and Taishakuten needs a wakeup call to rot in hell. But everything is ok now because an ant colony saved the world. Somehow.

[septiembrre]

I'm a little late but I just saw your post from a year ago about latinx rep in good girls and its sad reflecting back on it and how the show could've done better. Rio was just another stereotype, I hate how he was ambitiously latino and there was just no connection to his culture. Was he first, 2nd, or 3rd Gen? If he was 1st Gen it didn't make sense to have the family speak English. One thing that always annoyed me is how OOC he was at times and how the writers purposely made him out to be like some brown aggressive misogynistic man. They didn't bother making him complex. In a way I'm glad the show got canceled. As a Mexican woman the way Rio was written was racist.

Wah, I’ve been sitting on answering your ask. I wanted to tease your ask apart and respond to it sentence by sentence. But... my brain kept rechazandolo, so now I have feelings dump instead.

Since Good Girls ended, I have been parsing through how I feel about S4 and GG overall — sometimes more positively, sometimes more negatively. Then, I flip to reminding myself it’s not that serious (it's just tv! this is supposed to be my leisure activity!). Then, I waffle back to reflecting.

So, no textual analysis just feels and whining under the cut. I know folks are still mourning the end of the show and I don't want to yuck anyone's yum. Tagging with #ggnegativity.

My short answer is that Good Girls is my beloved, sometimes joyful, sometimes hurtful, complicated little show. Even now that we’re no longer getting new episodes I’m wary of sifting through the information we have about Rio because it’s a mess and it seems like a lot of his character was poorly thought out (ahem, all those dumb messages from Bill Krebs confirming multiple instances of lack of intentionality or care!).

I say this because I was tempted to start responding to you by riffing off of your comment with, “y'know, now that you say that, I think he’s third or fourth gen…”, pero who cares? And the point was never specifically about what gen he is, or even more specifically about... lol, I was going to say it doesn't matter what nationality he was, they just needed to pick one. Ugh, but the wording of that is too glib. The lack of intentionality behind these details feels sanitized to me, it feels very white gaze, it feels lazy.

However, I could have forgiven a lot of this weak character construction if his baseline, plot-related characterization on-screen was more consistent. But, Rio was often used as a plot device in a way that often fell flat for me, a weekly recurring bogeyman whether his antagonism made sense or not. On one hand, I feel for the creative team, because I think they were in a hard place, trying to avoid romanticizing Rio, and trying to seemingly backtrack the sexualization of him in Season 2, but... Idk, it's complicated.

Retrospectively, it’s sitting with me how much Good Girls is rooted in whiteness. While it's something I discerned before (lol, most obviously with 2x13 and in S3 with Lucy's disposability), you know how some shows get to their third or fourth season and finally start investing in their marginalized characters? It���s a crappy thing to hold out hope for, they're crumbs! But, I was. And we did get some Rio worldbuilding. But, ultimately, it felt weak to me -- under-conceptualized or under-worked.

For example, I liked Nick as a Bigger Bad who drove Rio and Beth together. I also thought that Nick's non-existent moral code was a lovely foil to Rio's, and that this contrast humanized Rio in a way that he needed. It also cast a new light on Rio's behavior of the earlier seasons, outside of Beth's perception in a way that I thought was healthy and needed. Great, meaty stuff! However, Nick and Rio's relationship came across as shallow to me. There really did not seem to be a lived-in quality to their scenes. The show really struggled with that element overall -- even with the three lead protagonists (their decades-long history with each other and interactions between their families being largely absent). I wonder why they made that choice.

It's strange because on the flip side we got a hefty amount of contextualization for MLM guy Vance and Annie's bf Kevin... Even that cop who Mick killed! All white men, too.

Me da pena.

Or maybe the thing that bothers me is that those scenes between Nick and Rio didn't center Rio's perspective effectively? Despite the one-on-one scenes being outside of Beth's framing (Rio being a secondary character typically tethered to Beth's story arc), there still was a lot of distance between Rio and the viewer? Like I think of Vance in his kitchen with his wife and child, and the way we as viewers were brought into that to empathize with him, and I think of the distance of Nick+Rio boxing scene or the scenes at the bar. Argh! It's hard to pinpoint without the textual analysis I feel too grumpy to do. It was such a narrative choice to keep Rio aloof and I side-eye it.

Anyway --

Overall, the writing room/show creators/decision-makers didn't seem to consider Latine/x/a/o viewers throughout the crafting of Good Girls and that sucks. It really feels like I'm being told to conform to the white gaze in watching the show, and after 2x13 that makes me feel prickly and defensive. A part of me yearns to do a rewatch to map Rio’s character (and inconsistencies) but I still yield joy from Good Girls — it’s been my main comfort story during the pandemic. I also rendered joy from Season 4 specifically — some of those scenes between the leads at the end were phenom!!

I am leaning into what's bringing me joy right now, so I feel hesitant to stew in critique, even while I also feel some sort of need to make sense of the hurtful racializations. I have a compulsion to write them all down on the same post or list -- somewhere where I can see them all at once and understand. But, at the moment, it’s not a use of my time and energy that feels good. Opting into fics and writing is bringing me a lot of joy during hard times.

I have to close with one final whine, that I am SO fatigued with television options right now. I find myself desperately wishing for more TV out there whose priority audience isn't only white folks. Good Girls isn't alone in its treatment of Latinx characters, or alone in mishandling characters of color or gay characters, or prioritization of empathy for white het male characters, but certainly, creating something more thoughtful shouldn't be so hard.

[carmen-berzattos]

I'm really curious to see what you think of the episode once you watch it because I thought it wasn't that bad tbh

Hey nonnie, so I just finished watching the episode and I’m ... conflicted. I’m conflicted by my reactions towards this show since the Michael’s return SL ended tbh. In the first 7 episodes, I so obviously disliked the storylines and where it was headed but afterwards my reactions were not so resentful. I became a lot more ... conflicted because the writing is not obviously bad or bad bad, it just became confused, unfocused, rushed and somewhat inconsistent. Somewhat, being a generous qualification on my part tbh. So, I’m gonna try to break it down here. Keep in mind, though, that I haven’t given a ton of thought to what the show has had to offer in a while now. It seemed futile to me, primarily, but also, because I’ve been far too busy to actually spare too much energy here. Nonetheless, here it goes:

 First and foremost, the romance in this season fell on its face in a lot of way. Starting with the main romances of Petramos and Jafael.

1. Petramos: In a lot of ways, the trouble of Petramos is a lot easier to spot for me, a little more obvious, and a little less complicated than jafael’s, more contained than Jafael’s. Probably due to the shorter history of the relationship. I think the controversial revelation that Petra’s been lying to JR about Anezka this whole time was detrimental to the relationship in a nearly unfixable way. To fix it would need care and finesse and patience and build-up. JtV has always had some trouble with all of that, what’s with it being so dramatic and over-the-top, but I think it’s struggled to achieve nuanced writing especially this season. In that way, Petramos’s writing has been doomed since the very start of the season. Like fine, okay, you went ahead with the Petra lying, something that I won’t even get into how unlikely it seems to me, but the relationship needed a LOT more care than what they gave it. Having JR choose to get back with Petra so prematurely only to have them break-up later on did NOT do the writers any favor. Their reunion was rushed, their build-up was quick and a lot of it off-screen. And then their break-up was a disaster writing-wise. It wasn’t heartbreaking, it was angering and insulting to me as a viewer who has functioning braincells thank you very much. It was done for drama and did not really follow coherently, especially with the add-on of Petra wanting to propose and all that. It just fell on its face. For me, a much better way to deal with the situation would have been to let their season 4 break up land throughout the first half of the season, then come up with a reason for a rekindling, a tentative alliance, a careful build up that leaves me squealing like a schoolgirl when they reunite. Have Petra go through the journey of getting over JR in the first half, have her go through that character growth, and THEN reunite them. And here’s the thing, I’m still about 99% sure that Petramos is endgame, but we’re literally supposed to get the reunion and the endgame in ONE episode, an episode that’ll largely be about Jafael so like... IDEK man. This’ll be really hard to sell beyond the aesthetics of two gorgeous people getting together on your screen. 

2. Jafael: I have SO many conflicting emotions about Jafael this season. Don’t get me wrong, I love them, I ship them. I always will. And we did get some really good material over the course of the season, but boy oh boy, do I have problems with how this is all panning out. First and foremost, the treatment of this relationship with Michael’s return has been disastrous, and i think we can all agree on that. Like okay, fine, you want to reach this point of breaking up. Okay fine. You want to reintroduce the love triangle. Okay fine, but pray tell, what the actual fuck was that treatment of the storyline? I was genuinely excited about the potential for angst that this’ll give Jafael. I wanted the pain and the heartbreak, I wanted Rafael to be the one to break up with Jane because he just does not want to do this anymore, but the way they went about it was confusing to me. For example, I loved the idea of “Rafael got his memories back, too”. I thought that was clever, but to me the trigger of it was not as clever. Remember back in season 1 when Raf proposed and then he saw her laughing with Michael and that kind of contributed to sending him spiraling? Yeah, I needed something like that. Something to remind Rafael and the audience of this journey, a physical evidence of that trouble in front of him. We got none of that of course. And then we had to deal with the whole Mateo thing and Mateo’s feelings and involvement and it was so not the right focus. It lacked feeling, it lacked heart, it lacked things that were genuinely a part of the core of Jane as a show. The whole point of Michael returning was supposed to be the emotional baggage of it all, but it turns out JtV was truly not at all equipped to handle something with that complexity. So the break up was a bit of a mess in that regards and I’m just... yeah. Let’s just leave it there for now. 

Because what was even more aggravating than the break-up, is their reunion. I’m not gonna get into the whole thing about Raf’s depression here (see below the section about characters), but what I will get into here is, how in fuck’s name did we get a whole reunion SL without even a glimpse of what, exactly, was going through Raf’s mind as he went through therapy? Like just how? How did he come to not trust her? How did he come to realize that he’ll always love her? What the f was going on in his mind this whole time? Was he pining in his own way, too? Okay, fine, you don’t want to give us this storyline about his depression (why thank you, fuck you too), but can you uhhh, IDK give us a SL about them getting through their issues. Remember Jafael in season 1 and 2 going to therapy to hash out their trouble? I miss those days. I’m honestly beyond flabbergasted that they did not immediately march into a therapist’s office and try to fix their trouble. That would’ve made their whole journey come full circle. It would have helped dissect their problems. His and hers. How they’l move on. How they’ve grown together. You know, the kind of stuff you do when you tell a person that you don’t trust them anymore but you also really love them? Remember the proposal episode? Yeah, how the F did we not get a we’re going to therapy SL afterwards? And now, in 5x17, Raf is like I’m not worried about MIchael trying to win you back again, anymore. And I’m like, k, cool, but why? We have seen very little development in that regards, can you please explain it better? Can you please show me more? PLEASE? But I guess not, and it is what it is now. 

In a lot of ways, Jafael’s trouble is that the show is trying to cram 2 or more seasons worth of buildup and SL into half a season, half a season whose focus has been disastrous to say the least. So yeah, the reunion has been tainted for me with a lot of trouble. And now, thinking about it, I actually can’t find very clear ways in which Jafael’s journey this season could have been fixed wih easy and simple shuffling of certain events. To truly make it pop, they NEEDED to delve deep into Rafael’s mental health, which is not a simple fix in itself. Otherwise, this only partially satisfactory stuff is all we are left with. In my mind right now, I think I would have gone much farther back, though, and tweaked their story to maintain the Michael returns SL without it making the story so bland and aggravating. I think I wouldn’t have let Jafael get together at all in season 4. Rafael, following that breakdown he had with Jane in 4x05 goes to therapy. Jane has a romance with Adam that runs its course. Jafael rebuild their friendship and start to catch feelings again. They’re really falling in love and about to get back together when BAM Michael returns. I think that would have worked for the purposes of the triangle more. Jane is not really committed to anyone, except now she’s in love with Raf. And it would have made even her choice more powerful. But alas, it is what it is. But even more ideally, IDK, come up with a more creative obstacle than Michael’s return. 

3. Villadero: Honestly, I’m only gonna talk about them to vent, cause I’m MAD, you guys, so MAD and I don’t even ship it. But I’m MAAAAAD. Like just... okay, okay, you take all of season 5 and it’s literally just Jennie shitting on M/J and I’m like what the actual fuck? The blows never stopped coming? Michael returning only to have his heart broken all over again not enough for ya? Having to see Mateo say that he hates him not enough? Oh, no, it’s not. We gotta not only make the book about their relationship a flop (which like, fine, as an aspiring writer it’s cool to see this being a more complicated journey for Jane than an immediate hit) but to also have its publication be a literal bribery? Why?? JUST WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYY? And then to imply that M/J where just a step for Jafael and M/C now?????????????????? WHY WHY WHY???????????????????? Remember the show that had Jane worry that her moving on with Raf would make it seem as if Michael is just a step? I want that show back. I just... UGH. 

Characters and characterization is another thing that the show really struggled with this season. Like a LOT. 

1. Petra: I’ll start with Petra because I honestly think she got the better deal out of everyone. This season has really managed to highlight and showcase how much she’s grown and how far she’s come. I think aside from the supposed plan to propose to JR, Petra has been the least inconsistent this season. Though she did have lines that showed real amnesia on the writers part, like telling Jane that JR is the reason she doesn’t lie and manipulate anymore. But oh well, she did well. 

2. Jane: I feel like Jane has lost a lot of her vibrance this season. I can’t really pin point why, but I think it’s a combination of reducing her to her bouts of guilt, the weird way that they’ve dealt with her career this season, fluctuating between utter disregard and then literal cramming of episodes worth of her writing development into half an episode (I mean Ro has FAAAAAAAR more build up towards This is Mars than Jane has with her book) it’s been really hard to see the life that Jane exuded in the past. 

3. Rafael: I’m tired. I don’t wanna talk about it. I’m just tired. 

4. Michael: Also tired. I just wanted him to feel like a person with emotions and trauma but like... *rubs forehead*

5. Xiomara: This makes me the MOST tired. She faded into the background so much I want to ram my head through a wall. Like what the fuck man just what the fuck? The build up of her going to nursing school came from no where. Now she’s willing to go to NY so quickly? No struggle? All the struggle is on Ro’s part? Why just why I don’t understand how the writers who gave us Xo from season 1-4 can just suddenly forget. Even the wrap up of her cancer SL was anticlimactic. It’s just. 

Also, Luisa deserves better. 

Another thing that season severely struggles with is focus. So much screentime for Jorge and Alba and it’s just not that interesting of a SL. So much time for River Fields and literally no one I know gives a flying fuck. So much wasted time, time that should have gone to Raf’s depression, more Luisa, and definitely more Xo. But NOOOO we had to deal with River’s relationship with her daughter and I’m like... who even gives a damn? 

One last thing I’ll say cause I’m too tired to say anymore about this, though I could: where are the magical realism elements in the show? Where has that magical feeling about them gone???????????????

Anyways, let’s see how they wrap it up I guess.