#maybe that's why we were lured to Mohg as well

[dr-zeddy]

Ah, I thought I’d see you here. It’s been quite some time.

… It was never Kindly Miquella, was it? The Erdtree was leading you all along. So that you might ascend to lordship.

Why come to these lands to begin with? I suppose it must be what his Eminence, or perhaps the Erdtree, desired all along? The clashing of the favored lords, such that one would prevail?

What do you suppose Leda means by that? I get the Erdtree, but... "His Eminence"?

"I suppose it must be what his Eminence desired all along?"

"... A lord not for gods, but for men."

... I dunno, I like the twist of Mohg not being as evil as everyone initially thought. He might not have been good, but he's definitely not Rykard.

Hell, everyone considers Ranni to be good, but she's... Anything but. But she's the best that there is. Not like Rykard, or Godrick.

So really, why not Mohg?

OMG, I never thought of that but that is such an interesting interpretation! I always read it like Leda was referring to Miquella here, but in hindsight it leaves a lot of questions unanswered ... Why would Miquella want to challenge the Tarnished? Leda explicitly speaks of a clash, not Miquella luring us in to bewitch or convince us of his agenda. Due to his personality I doubt Miquella harbouring the belief, lordship has to be decided in a duel.

Circling back to Ansbach's dialogue how he accepts Mohg's death because we fell him in an honourable duel, it could very well be that this was Mohg's desire. Because while Miquella probably doesn't think of lordship as something to be fought over, Ansbach however - and therefore very likely Mohg as well - does.

I like the twist of Mohg not being the ultimate bad guy as well, even though I totally enjoyed him like this before.

While I love Ranni too, I gotta admit that you're right, she has done some nasty things to achieve her goals and I hear people barely hating on her for unleashing the fucking Death Blight onto the world, for instance. But Mohg running a Blood Cult is suddenly too morally questionable? I know I said this over and over already but I do not think of Mohg as the innocent white-knight saviour either, bro has done some awful stuff, but with the information provided by the DLC, is it too crazy to think that Mohg probably planned to become a lord, who actually cared for uplifiting those who had no more power at all, akin to what his goddess stands for?

[mytypeismohg]

While playing my like 20th Elden Ring run, I forgot an important piece of lore info i never payed much attention to. It isn't listed on the Fextralife but if you come into Caelid from Limgrave up to the rotview balcony there is a nascent butterfly right on the edge across from where the first giant crow is. It's one of the first items you find in Caelid. There are also Miquella’s lillies and Trina's lillies in Caelid, plus here you find the sword of Saint Trina. I never thought much of it but it's now pretty well known that flowers and butterflies signify certain character presences in areas.

I also now realize that you can obtain the 3rd Fevor's Cookbook from Gideon after telling him about Mohgwyn Palace (ive only done this twice in like 20 playthroughs bc before the dlc i almost never killed Mohg). This is the cookbook that allows you to craft the Bewitching Branch.

I don't want to think about the theory that Messmer could have been bewitched too, but you get the cookbook to make the Charming branch right outside the Church of the Crusade, and Miquella destroys his rune the moment we enter the Shadow Keep. Bewitching Branch charms singular enemies (usually), the Charming Branch charms groups, like the npcs we meet. Messmer has definitely met Miquella. Even with his cut dialogue about him, there's no way Messmer and his soldiers did not know he was there, and I can't imagine Messmer just saying nothing or not asking him any questions. And if he never was bewitched, why not? Maybe Miquella expected or even wanted him to die, or kill us. Maybe Miquella did it to test our strength.

I'm already convinced that Miquella deliberately led us to himself, hoping Radahn would finish us off (sorry Miq, blood Godskin stitcher works too good lol). I now believe this is what Leda meant when talking about a "clashing of Lords", questioning if Miquella would truly lure us to him hoping to get rid of us, a rival that "refused to be embraced", so Radahn would take place as Lord instead of us.

I realy hope the Messmer thing is a coincidence, Miquella already took poor Mohg...I remember pre dlc when people would flip if you suggested that Miquella brainwashed Mohg, but there were already too many obvious hints.

Back on Caelid, I'm noticing there's a ton of similar hints that Miquella was indeed in Caelid in the base game and it wasn't a new story addition to the dlc (plus the Miyazaki interview). Listening to Freya's words, he was most likely there during the battle between Malenia and Radahn, or shortly before or after. Makes me wonder when he cocooned himself, and when he was "abducted". There's still so many timeline issues I can't understand in the dlc.