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alchemillalost · 1 month ago

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The Season 8 Destiel Meta Post Nobody Asked For (and why I think the writers had a Destiel endgame option in mind for season 8)

Okay, so here's the long version of this post that almost nobody wanted, but I'm writing it anyway. This is LONG. I'm sorry. And I want to start with it seems like s8 is polarizing, but I rather liked it, and I think it's because I live in the (delusion?) truth of this theory. Stay with me if you want to Believe too. I think Season 8 was written with two possible outcomes in mind; and with an endgame Destiel being the more likely of the two that the writers anticipated. Sounds insane, I am aware. You will need to stick with me here and extend some trust, but I promise I can show my work.

We need to set the scene: It's 2012. We are launching headfirst into the height years of tumblr fan culture. Gangnam Style grips the nation. Destiel is huge in fanfiction & tumblr land. However, interestingly, we're about two years past show's peak. Already once SPN was slated to end with S5's natural arc conclusion, but it didn't-- it was renewed because it was making the CW money, simple as. They have pushed on into the Sera Gamble era with Seasons 6 and 7, which have their respective flashes of brilliance, but all-in-all generally struggled to find footing in the post-Apocalypse Supernatural verse that was never actually planned for. It's pretty evident that the writing and plotting isn't nearly as tight as S1-5, simply because 1-5 was all mapped out from the get go.

It's been interesting returning to the fandom after a decade, because I'm finding a lot of people now who really liked Season 7. No hate, to each their own, and maybe it was just the circles I was in at the time, but in the moment S7 wasn't received well at all. It felt like they kept inflating the "big bad" to heights that sometimes struggled to get fully fleshed out (which, to be fair, continues to be a writing problem going forward). And while watching S7 in Netflix binge-mode it doesn't feel quite so bad, at the time having a year's worth of your fave TV show where Sam and Dean are systematically and pointlessly stripped of everything that gave the show its signature personality was nothing short of torture (killing Cas, the Impala, torching Bobby's place, killing Bobby), all in the name of more man-pain. All of that punctuated with a lot of filler episodes that felt like more misses than hits, the absolutely insufferable Amy Pond plot, and dick jokes just because the writers thought it was funny.

Everyone's opinions on S6-7 aside, though, Supernatural wasn't landing financially for the CW either. Season 5 aired on Thursday nights, which is a fairly well respected time slot for established and successful shows, but with Season 6 and 7 we see a demotion to Friday night, 9 PM ET. This is basically the kiss of death for a cable TV show. You sent your shows to Friday night to die. The CW was looking to the future with newer shows and the writing was on the walls that this circus was probably wrapping up soon.

However, in true Supernatural fashion, it wouldn't fucking die. Honestly, and I can only speculate here, I imagine such a die-hard and still-growing fanbase coinciding with a huge spike in social media + ease of access to fan spaces with the surge in commonplace smart phones/laptop computers is probably what kept performing CPR on this show.

So along comes season 8. The show is being passed to Jeremy Carver and Ben Edlund as a returning writer to head up the show. Other people have discussed the Sera Gamble era in depth, but what you need to know here, basically, is that the Carver/Edlund mind are ones that a) have not shied away from queer themes and b) are a lot of those Destiel classics. We're talking Ghostfacers, The End, My Bloody Valentine, On the Head of a Pin, The Man Who Would Be King (Carver), and Free to Be You and Me, Point of No Return (Edlund). Essentially, Sera's philosophy tended to be "strip it back to just the Winchester brothers" and Carver & Edlund were generally more open to having the surrounding cast of supporting characters. And these two definitely don't shy away from Dean & Castiel's relationship.

Here is where my theory gets a little speculative: I believe this is the point where where SPN was given one last hail mary by the CW. New writers and a Wednesday night slot, you have one more chance to make this work, otherwise you're getting the axe. It was renewed pretty late, in early May of 2012 (compare to S6 being announced Feb 2010). S7 had barely scraped its renewal in late April the year prior, too.

Okay, so let's put ourselves in that position for a moment as showrunners sitting down in the Supernatural writer's room in May of 2012. There are two things that might happen: 1) you just might pull it off, and you do such a good job you pull the show from the proverbial grave or 2) you don't pull it off, and you need to make sure the show ends on a satisfying note that wraps things up neatly. And you need to write and film a season that, until you get the yes or no from the CW, can do either and both or neither, and you may need to pivot in one direction or the other pretty quickly while you're filming the back half of your season.

Enter the Destiel endgame theory, which I believe was their scenario 2. Time to introduce the exhibits from the season.

General: Flashbacks. I wish they'd explored Purgatory more too, but it would've taken up too much time if they might have to fast-track a series finale later. (Also Amelia should've been all made up in Sam's head to cope with losing Dean but again, different post. Maybe it became a time constraint to explore too much too, if they thought the show might be ending.)

The evidence:

8x01 We Need to Talk About Kevin & 8x02 - & What's Up Tiger Mommy? We get flashbacks of Dean tearing Purgatory apart to find Castiel. When he finds him, he makes it clear he's coming back to Earth with him.

8x03 - Heartache- This episode focuses on the love between an immortal being and a human.

8x05 - Blood Brother - Benny/Queer Dean discourse deserves its own post. You can take or leave this one for this post's theory.

8x07 - A Little Slice of Kevin - 1) Dean is clearly hiding a boner when Cas gets out of the shower? 2) We introduce that Dean is deeply upset that Castiel didn't make it through the portal-- to the degree he's faked an entire memory because he'd rather it be his fault Cas is gone than have been abandoned by him

8x08 - Hunteri Heroici - Castiel wants to join Dean as a hunter; we're beginning to establish Castiel's genuine desire to spend his life with the Winchesters. This is then juxtaposed when Naomi forces him to stay away at the end of the episode, further telling us this is Cas' desire vs. Heaven's.

8x11 - Larp and the Real Girl - This is mostly a fun episode, but it's an example of queerness being gently nudged to the forefront of plots without immediate dismissal or being the butt of a joke-- rare for SPN at the time.

8x13 - Everybody Hates Hitler - Ah, the Aaron "He was my Gay Thing" moment. Dean leans all the way into the flirting. Does not give the "don't swing that way" speech, gets flustered, is at a loss for words. He appears disappointed later when he was wrong. This has little precedent on the show when Dean's been perceived as gay, he usually dismisses it very quickly.

February 11, 2013: Supernatural is renewed for season 9, a week after Everybody Hates Hitler airs.

Per these estimates, 8x18 is the next episode to be filmed post-announcement, beginning 2/12.

8x16 - Remember the Titans - A Forbidden Love plot. You can take or leave this one for this theory.

8x17 - Goodbye Stranger - OK, here is our inflection point for editing, in my opinion. The last month of eps, more or less, have been pretty trials-centric or one-off. This episode airs 3/20/2013. At this point, we know we're getting a season 9, but we've been building with all of the above, and this ep was filmed pre-S9 announcement... so much so that we have an "I love you" in the original script for the infamous crypt scene. I fully believe it was filmed and edited out in post.

Second, Castiel turns the walls of Naomi's office/lobotomy lounge the bi pride colors during the crypt scene. Someone on the crew at Supernatural literally tweeted that morning to be on the lookout for special choices in Naomi's office. It was very intentional. Why else pick these colors and declare they're intentional? (I have searched up and down for this tweet but it was rare i was there i remember it [the tweet] all too well please trust me)

UPDATE: Tumblr hive mind found it and it was Jerry Wanek saying they were… crosses? In the intersecting lines in the windows? (that's how lines work? lol) And it was amidst a spell of saying fans were reaching in their analyses, and though some of his replies have that tinge, it's not direct about the color commentary. I never saw the back half of that saga or forgot about it, didn’t mean to misrepresent anything! Either way I’ve been corrected but that office is still bisexual and you can’t tell me otherwise

And don't get me started on the "unicorn" stuff, that one person you'd throw everything away for (but I understand this can be interpreted in many ways) However, the season is renewed, we've picked the path they never thought they'd actually pull off-- now we've got to backpedal this Destiel just enough to not impact our precious CW bottom lines, but not piss off our faction of fangirls who watch to ship.

8x20 - Pac Man Fever - Charlie tells Dean she thinks Castiel seems "dreamy". Charlie is very gay and would only say this to elicit a reaction from Dean, we don't really get much of one. Again, lack of a "speech" on his sexuality.

*Note 8x18 Freaks & Geeks and 8x20 Pac Man Fever are filler eps, I think they could've been pulled if we needed the extra time to sprint toward a series finale*

8x21 - The Great Escapist - 8x23 Sacrifice- We hit a real fast escalation toward the season finale from here. I actually think this overarching plot was more or less always the idea for the ending, but how exactly it was executed depended on the renewal status.

The Alternate Series Finale Ending (That I believe they thought they'd have to do when they wrote it): If they hadn't gotten renewed, we are set up for Sam to close the gates of Hell and Metatron to use a spell to close Heaven using the heart of a nephilim (product of human + angel love), the bow a cupid (an angel that arranges love in humans), and the grace of an angel in love with a human. Hell and Heaven shutter up, Sam dies, and Dean is left with a human Castiel who has, for the better part of the season, already been "testing out" being a hunter alongside Dean and has literally moved heaven and earth to have this. He will not have to be the immortal doomed to love a human, as in 8x03, or have the forbidden love of 8x16; we receive resolution on those subjects for our heroes that the monster-of-the-week characters did not. They resolve their feelings for each other, because if we kept Dean's crypt "I love you" and we establish Castiel's grace was in love with a human... well, what else is there to say? (Oh, yes, and they did exactly this and pulled the Destiel trigger in S15 when it was all ending.)

The Actual Ending (That I think they got surprised about the renewal and had to do): Backpedal. Edit. Only drop little subtext again. We just need Castiel's Regular Grace TM for this spell. We can keep selling merch and con tickets and get views if we appeal to the widest audience possible, and we're not taking risks now that we've performed a literal miracle rescue from a Friday night 9 PM slot.

And once we start Season 9, we get a LOT of being hit over the head with Castiel & Dean's Heterosexuality TM, so much so it's awkward and even out of character. (Human Cas sighing about boobs in early s9? Like please. Get real.) It's a HARD left turn, but it makes more sense if you consider it all in the context above. I just don't think they'd have gone in so hard on the bullet points I listed if they had thought Season 9 was in the bag.

TL;DR: I think we might've had Destiel in 2013, but if we had, we wouldn't have also had the rest of the seasons. Whether or not that's a good thing is up to you, but I think it was a combination of a lot of external factors, capitalism, and, well, it being 2013, sadly. I think they were cowards about it, but at the same time, even the writers probably weren't pulling every string, they also needed to answer to other agendas. Television is a medium that is rife with the push and pulls of a thousand factors that aren't the pure story. Idk how to really wrap this, but this has been over ten years in the making so enjoy the fruits of my brain rot.

#spn #spn meta #supernatural #destiel #destiel meta #you asked #do you regret it #i spent two hours on this

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toptophat · 1 year ago

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Top Hat's thoughts on the FNAF movie (Spoilers)

I thoroughly enjoyed it! Smiled throughout the whole thing

As a FNAF fan, seeing some key moments from the games as well as acknowledging the fandom (e.g Game theory's MatPat and The Living Tombstone's iconic song at the credits) made my jaw drop

FNAF veterans such as Dawko enjoyed it so that made me optimistic

The animatronics were replicated perfectly and the entire set for the restaurant is just too beautiful

Scenes such as the break-in, while not exactly scary, were still intense enough to keep me invested

Unpopular opinion - I kinda liked the pillow fort scene, it was cheesy but it could be seen as the animatronics trying to gain Abby's trust to lure her to be stuffed into a suit. Also I'm jealous, i wanna make a pillow fort with them 😭

And here's where I'll address (some of) the main critiques people gave to the movie (references: anything in the media that would link to this in a way)

"The movie wasn't scary at all, it should've been gory"

Yeah, I agree, even though I got shocked a couple of times (like the balloon boy gag) it wasn't really terrifying

But honestly, after watching countless "playthroughs" as a kid, you start to realise... The games were never that scary in the first place

To be honest, the only thing scary about it was actually some areas in the fandom (you know who you are..)

I'm aware that FNAF was never for kids, no matter how many elsagate vids were made on it. So it would make sense for it to have blood and gore. It definitely would've made scenes like the spring lock scene more traumatising to look back at

You know what else was expected to be more adult oriented? Cuphead's Netflix adaptation. While I understand that both of these beloved franchises could've been adapted to be more adult, it can also be noted that the Cuphead show is actually accepted by the fandom as while it did have a rocky start with S1, it showed that the writers were testing the waters to try something new, and by S2, they had a better idea of what they wanted, and a lot of people fell in love with it. While it would've definitely been cool to see more gore, it wouldn't improve the movie automatically

"The movie doesn't follow the original lore"

While, yes, it would've been cool to see all theories confirmed by Scott himself during the film, it's also good to remember this: they're called "adaptations" for a reason

Many popular franchises, when adapted to the big/small screen can experience changes in the known story and lore as a way to bring this fresh new start and perspective, they never aim to continue or tell the story again when it wasn't necessary in the first place (*cough cough* Lion King 2019). Last time I checked: Luigi wasn't the one who gets kidnapped by Bowser (SMB23), Cuphead never lost the right to his soul due to a carnival game (TCS), The Echidnas never had beef with freaking owls over the master emerald (The Sonic movies)

Let's be honest here, Scott may have made FNAF, but all the popular fan theories wrote the story, so everything is kinda messy. Maybe this was Scott's chance to rewrite everything, to start over and stray away from the messy lore that others made, MatPat seemed to be cool with it, he was even in the damn movie!

While, there have been times when repeating the same story makes it stale and repetitive (Disney), Changing important elements of the story (Also Disney) can make it unfaithful and pointless, so I understand that.

The changes that were made in this movie were interesting, making Vanessa, Afton's daughter could add more impact on the whole Vanny thing as she's been around this horrible man her whole life. Not making Mike, Abby and Garrett, Afton's children doesn't really deepen the personal connection and conflict between Mike and Afton so it'll be interesting to see how that one goes especially with Circus Baby now that Abby has no real connection to Afton other than that one encounter

Also I heard from one review that the movies take more inspiration from the books, but I don't have enough knowledge on the books to elaborate on that argument

Unless there's some weird twist, which is highly unlikely, I'd love to see how they develop these newly established dynamics if there are sequels being planned (pls make more, I need to see how this goes)

Besides, like I said, often, the first movies, seasons etc are there to experiment, it has the potential to improve in each new installment. For example, JJBA, it took until around parts 3-4 for Araki to have a better idea of what he wanted it to be.

Conclusion

That's about all I really have to say. I understand that many had high expectations going in and, who wouldn't? It shows we value ourselves and that we want to experience things that are worth our time. People are not obligated to love everything and don't have to agree with everything I said. I personally found the movie to be enjoyable and worth my time, and, while i know it lacked in some aspects, who knows?, as it progresses, opinions could change and if we get more of the revamped FNAF, then, we could see if it changed for the better or for the worse. And while first impressions do matter, it won't always be the same impression moving forward (for people who liked and didn't like the movie)

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk!

#five nights at freddy's #fnaf movie #review #freddy fazbear #bonnie the bunny #chica the chicken #foxy the pirate #william afton #mike schmidt #abby schmidt #fnaf vanessa #spoilers #pls tag spoilers #I don't wanna ruin anyone's experience

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kandyzee · 9 months ago

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What do you think fionas childhood was like 💓

I HAVE SO MUCH TO SAY thanks for asking :pp.

I used to be a reallly big fiona fan, so I've thought about this a lot.

I imagine fionas upbringing was similar to Debbie's in alot of ways. They both find themselves in problematic relationships, forced to look after their siblings.

Fiona is mentioned to have a LONG sexual history as early as s1, where she's only 21. Given the lack of attention and validation she was getting, I think fiona has been having sex since she was a child. She probably fell into the "mature for her age" group. Her parents were neglecting her, possibly physically abusing her (we've seen Frank hit his kids in the show), and she wasn't able to get academic validation because she had to drop out. It wouldn't surprise me that this led her into having older bfs and stuff like that.

This makes even more sense to me given how she reacts to her siblins minor /adult relationships. Fiona didn't have anyone to tell her that her relationships were wrong, so when she saw her siblings going through the same thing, she saw nothing wrong with it. Like when she says that ned and Ian is "just sex"

We also see that she , like Debbie and a lot of the other female characters, is scared of abandonment. She tells Jimmy Steve that everybody leaves and keeps going back to Jimmy even though she knows he's bad for her because she's desperate for someone to stay. She rushes into relationships, remember when she married someone after like a week of daiting ?? Fiona has a hard time accepting love even though she craves it. She cheats and ruins one of her most stable relationships. I think that all comes from the way she was treated in her romantic relationships as a child. Of course, a lot of her abandonment fear comes from Monica, too.

Okay moving away from guys.

We know fiona ran track in school and that she was really fucking good at it. This was probably one of the most stable things in her life, an activity away from her siblings and the stress of home. Running is a good way to feel in control. I think fiona developed problems around running ? I'm not sure what exactly you would call it. Fiona would push herself too hard on the track so that she was responsible for the aches she felt instead of them being stressed. I can also imagine having an ED around this time. Her siblings are young, so they're struggling even more with money than normal. She starts to skip meals, and eventually, she finds control in what she eats when she's forced away from track.

I imagine fiona to be relatively popular in school, mainly with guys, but she struggles to keep real outside of school friendships. This changes when she meets Kev and V. I think they probably met after she dropped out of school. V is like 23, I think, in the first season and Kevin 25 ish ? I'm not really that sure, but we know fiona didn't go to school with them. Kevin and V helped fiona a lot, and she definitely needed them. They started to help her with the kids, and for once, she had people on her side. Things get better for her when she meets them.

Baby fiona (5-12) was definitely the in ur face demanding respect, kinda kid. She was sassy and always trying to seem as strong as possible. She will haggle prices for anything and isn't afraid to scam and cheat to get what she needs for her family. But I also imagine her being good at acting sweet. She's a great sweet talker. This is a prominent trait Ian has, and I think he got it from his big sister.

Teens, she's all about drama. Boy drama petty teen girl drama, watching reality TV when she can and stealing gossip magazines. I think she latches onto the typical teen girl image hard. She definitely has a short phase of always getting dress coded. I don't think this lasts that look tho.

Same as in the show, she's always got a new job, sometimes working 2 or 3. She's stressed ofc but learns a lot. She has little hacks and tricks for almost any job. She's resistant in the way she will do anything. Nothing is too dirty or hard for her.

Her relationship with Frank is complex. Fionas Frank's favourite, but she's also the oldest and likely the one he takes his anger out on most. When ur someone's favourite, it hurts them even more when they feel you messed up. I don't think Frank was consistent with his abuse, but it was definitely there. Frank was a 'good' dad sometimes. Fiona gets to know Frank when his alcoholism and drug use wasn't at its peak (He gradually gets worse with age) So fiona got more good dad moments but also felt the disappointment harder as she watched him get worse.

Fiona tells lip (pretty sure it's him) that he's always been Monica's favourite in s1, and I think she has always thought that. Later on in the show, u obviously see Ian and debbie are monicas favourites, tho. I don't see Monica and fiona ever being particularly close. Fiona was hit hard when Monica leaves for the first time, Frank's a mess, and now she has the unfortunate job of explaining that she's gone to her siblings. Unlike her younger siblings, who are probably too young to fully understand what's going on, fiona feels the abandonment full force.

Fiona is 4 / 5 yrs older than lip, right? (Their ages confuse me so bad) so she I'm guessing she was always in a different school than him. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if he's in elementary school, she's in high school. Fiona has to miss school to run all over the place and collect her siblings from different places. She might have to be the one to unroll her siblings in school, too, a couple times.

Finally just some random things

She has a purple flip phone at one point that she's super protective of

She loves family movie nights and would try to do as many as possible.

She cried when Debbie was born cause she was so excited to have a sister.

Similarly she cried when Ian was born cause he was a boy and she wanted a sister.

She really wanted a pet when she was young

She has 100s of diary's from yrs and yrs of writing in them (we see Carl read one)

Would always struggle with her hair cause it's curly and v helps her learn how to style it even tho she hardly does

She's the kind of person who finds comfort in sitting on the floor, in the bathroom, bath tub

Had a pink hating phase

Had a collection of different fake IDs by the time she was 16

Definitely got in at least 1 fight in school cause of boy drama

Hated cooking

ANYWAY I love fiona

#answering asks #i love yapping #fiona gallagher #fiona gallagher defender #shes so me #shameless us #fiona shameless #pre s1 shameless #shameless #shameless hc #fiona Gallagher hc #headcanon

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cygnusmori · 1 year ago

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Good Omens S2 thoughts ahead, beware of spoilers

It's been already two days since I binge watched the season in one go, and I wanna share some thoughts. However, they aren't positive, if you're looking for praise you won't like this.

I won't talk about the big bad end or Aziraphale, I think there's already enough posts covering the issue and explaining Aziraphale, or theorizing about Metatron, or that Crowley wasn't in the right either.

I wanna talk about him.

For many, it seems like he was the only positive sweet thing about that ending, and that this was his redemption arc.

But I digrees.

See, I've always been fan of Gabriel, and I always thought he was a nuanced character, I don't think Gabriel is anywhere near of perfection. I like him with his flaws, I think he's funny, ignorant, mean at times, and has that alienating "non human" feeling. He did bad things, but I never saw him as an evil big bad force, I never thought he was a villain. He was on the opposing side of our protagonists, which is different.

But that's the S1, let's talk about S2 and why I'm disappointed.

Maybe just showing that he isn't all evil a didn't want to try to destroy the world is enough of a development for most. But not for me, because we didn't see this development.

I'm grateful that he wasn't shown as an evil edgelord compulsive serial abuser? Yeah. Thanks.

But for most of the season, we didn't see Gabriel, we saw Jim. This amnesiac, empty, thoughtless person. I loved him, we all love him, I know! He's sweet, cute, empathetic, dumb, and apologized for something he didn't know he did.

But he didn't have any actual meaningful "eye-opening" experiences with the ineffables. He didn't have like, let's say an attempt at bonding or friendship, or getting to know and discover earth. Everyone theorized and was eager to have Gabriel discovering the wonders of earth and humanity, realizing is worth saving.

And what did we go? ...A flashback in the last episode that lasted less than, what, 6 minutes? Where he just enjoys the same song that Beelzebub. Everything about their relationship is left as just guess work, there's not even a fraction of growth like the ineffables had.

But not just that, is that it was mostly told. Not shown.

We didn't see Gabriel having any actual feelings, or conflicts, or problems, or worries. Nothing.

We're shown he could sacrifice himself to save the humans and trying to avoid the problems he was causing, which is sweet and beautiful! I love him! But that's still Jim...Would Gabriel do it? I wanna say yes, I wanna believe that he would! But that's the problem. we don't really know because we just got about less than 10 minutes of the actual Gabriel.

He remained as this silly amnesiac character for the first 5 episodes. And then on the last 20 minutes he got his memories back, and what did he do, after being protected and cared by Aziraphale and Crowley?

Nothing. There wasn't an exchange of words, there wasn't a "They helped me". There was nothing, there wasn't any explanation for why he actually seeked Aziraphale, besides that little implication made by Metatron that maybe Gabriel thought Aziraphale should be the next leader (which, let me add, could be a lie).

I, even as a fan of Gabe, feel like he had barely anything to offer. No much more relevant bits of his personality than what we already knew. I still thought he was super funny and loveable as Jim, but yeah...not growth. Especially between Aziraphale and him, after all...they knew each other for ages, Aziraphale thought he was awful but also that he would protect him, and this amnesiac Gabriel was eager to apologize and help, where are the follow ups of that?

I get it, he's a side character.

But this season he's a Plot Device.

What about these "lucid moments" where he spoke with the voice of God? Or those "It hurts to remember!"? They meant nothing? They weren't clues, he was just so ready to drop everything?

And as an audience I have to accept he really changed that much, he really didn't care about falling or losing his over 6000 years job. That's so...empty.

I didn't see any eye-opening, or mind-changer experience for him. We saw he's capable of love and respect and selfless actions, I guess, but that's just the most bare minimum, and one that I already always believed, so there's not excitement for me at all.

I think maybe I feel like this because I always thought he wasn't evil, but all of the reasoning for him not being evil, barely got touched. I mean the responsability maniac, the workaholic tendencies, the extreme obedience, the stress, the emotional familiarity with other archangels, the fear of falling... he had none of these things, he apparently changed in four years. That's it. "He's changed, and doesn't care about being the leader! And now he's singing a love song and disappearing happily on the sunset!" is not the direction I expected.

They just left, without consequences besides stepping down of their ranks? Gabriel's memories loss wasn't even a punishment. He had no real consequences for anything and that hurts me, because those are needed for a character to learn and progress. He got rewarded for loving freely, but that love wasn't even actually shown (no, cheesy and super sappy pet names aren't a relationship development)

I'm just sad...or more like devastated about almost everything in this S2. I guess I can just enjoy the fact that him being just a random dude and not worse than the devil himself is my consolation prize. And even with that I was left feeling like I don't have any reason to be in the fandom.

That said, those are just my thoughts. You can disagree and think this season was wonderfully done on every aspect, that's what opinions are.

#gabriel #good omens s2 #good omens spoilers #good omens s2 spoilers #good omens gabriel #rambling #good omens meta #good omens

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laststandx3 · 1 year ago

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personally my main problem with s2 of good omens is that the story is plot driven and not character driven. And this is the main obstacle for me because it makes the characters complete different people from s1 and makes all of them look stupid. s1 you had armageddon, one angel and one demon who made everything in their power to stop it and a lot of secondary characters had agency. s2 had gabriel who had to be a secret but then when he was discovered there were non consequences. Azi could defeat the demons. and the angels were looking for him just to fire him better. there was no need to hide him in the first place and there have been no measures azi and crow took to solve gabriel's situation. I think what was most annoying was the story setting up stakes just for then completely forget about them. it's like hearing ben&ben saying dany kinda forgot about the iron fleet allover again. if you want to write a low stakes season it's ok, especially bc go s1 had a good base of humor and lightheartedness they could appeal to. you don't want them to stop the apocalypse EVERY time (only tua can and they made it funny)

people would have LOVED a low stakes season watching azi and crow meet-cutes in every era or their day to day life even. and watching gabriel and belzebub plotting another armageddon and falling in love while doing it. it would have been fine without the threat of being erased from the book of life, without the threat of the legion of demons outside, without the threat of what angels might do to azi if they discovered he was hiding gabriel. because guess what there have been no consequences for anything that the characters were doing. the legion was defeated in one minute. the angels didn't do anything to azi. nor to gabriel. not even to belzebub. and the book of life had been forgotten. but also and i was never a big azi fan, but they made him so fucking stupid this season. crowley's only personality trait was that he wasn't impressed in anything.

back in 2019 i was an ineffable bureaucracy truther, and i'm happy they took this route. i'm a bit less happy gabriel and belzebub had 3 scenes (very cute ok) but also very hollow. they really leave it to the audience to develop their relationship. their relationship which, if you mind for a moment to read the ship's name contains the word bureaucracy in it. bc they both didn't care about humans and earth they wanted to move on with their job. that was what they had in common that made them have chemistry in that one scene they had together in s1. they had in common that they cared about their positions. it seems to me like someone who didn't see the hate-colleague-situationship g&b had took their characters and smashed them together and since they didn't get the appeal in a relationship that wasn't complete devotion to the point of erasing oneself, they erased the characters into empty shells of what they were.

i'm sorry, when i started watching it i thought why are people on tumblr complaining it feels like fanfic? it surely won't be THAT bad. but it was. it was a bunch of tropes stitched together to give the audience lots of moments that feel like they meant something but when you see the complete picture they don't fit and they mean nothing for the plot

#good omens s2 #critic #criticism #lots and lots of plotless hours #sorry #i like my stories well developed and character driven

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castlebyersafterdark · 4 months ago

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'Look at him compared to all the skaters at the roller rink in particular because I think that's the most poignant moment to demonstrate all this.'

omg youre so right, and we're totally gonna revisit will at the rink arent we? i have a feeling we will. it's gonna be torture for him, either him standing still frozen just watching el suffer - maybe vecna even taunts that will enjoyed that after the day he had - or bad memories of similar humiliation from bullies and perhaps his dad. the ol' billy and will link, bad dads and homophobic bullies.

you nailed it with why will is the quintessential 'other' character for the normal side, while el is our 'other', alien rep for the supernatural side of things. you said 'he's neat and tidy, his clothes are often tighter.' and yeah! i always thought it was cos he's wearing jon's hand me downs that don't fit, but i think youre right and it's a combo of all this stuff. will's outsiderness is - instead of wacky and wild and big like so many others like eddie for example - the fact that he pares himself back, makes himself smaller and tidier with neater edges. he basically tries to take up as little space as possible in the world, and even his clothing portrays that self-restriction with it's tightness. fantastic visual storytelling.

it also adds to the queer reading so well, and i've gotta say that your description reminded me of s1 mike too. when the show came out everyone loved dustin's cap and lucas' shearling jacket, but no one mentioned mike's dorky preppy beige jacket or his stripy green ringer tees because they just werent iconic enough to be worth mentioning. but he was my secret fashion fav!!! cos to me, mike was THE nerd of nerds for s1. the king nerd. his style only became harder and harder to read as time went on, and i hope all becomes clear in s5 as to why! the cyan windbreaker shirt of s4 is most inexplicable of all!

I'll be so sad if we don't get some really devastating flashbacks or visions that Henry uses to taunt Will, especially featuring that roller rink. It's such a good visual. You're so exposed out there, panic makes it harder to escape, he already stands out and it will be so much worse in a vision. The guilt angle, the bullying angle. And I know everyone hates Lonnie but I really want Lonnie back. We need closure even in just the acknowledgement of Will's childhood and what brought him to this point, he's been brought up in regards to Jonathan but not as much for Will. I think he should be.

the fact that he pares himself back, makes himself smaller and tidier with neater edges. he basically tries to take up as little space as possible in the world, and even his clothing portrays that self-restriction with it's tightness. fantastic visual storytelling.

YES! Just yes to this. Says it all. And Mike has always been my favorite in terms of fashion, too! Until Season 3 then I liked Will the best onwards. They both embody such great nerdy, retro style. They never seem too gimmicky where some outfits on some characters, while very in the era, do seem costumey rather than wardrobe? I don't really know what I'm talking about haha my fashion opinions are all over the place. But! Unpopular opinion: not a fan of the teal jacket from season 4, but maybe its because we're used to seeing outfit changes and I got so sick of seeing the Cali crew in the same stuff, even if it made sense in the plot. It just seemed jarring to have them all so covered up for desert scenes. I get the reasoning for Mike's outfit, showcasing color blocking and sharp angles as his theme, but it wasn't my favorite. Though, excellent hint with the triangle pocket. Which absolutely holds meaning since the jacket was said to be customized. That detail was supposed to be noticeable.

I know most of what we've seen from set photos only show the one or two outfits for everyone, but I think we've only seen stuff from the first few episodes so I'm hoping we get more outfits than that! It's so fun to compare and analyze the clothes and it really makes it feel like a lived in world and adds to character personalities.

#asks #queued

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angeltism · 1 year ago

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Honestly let me be salty for a moment oh my GOD some beings are sooo annoying and so fucking . how do I say this . I just KNOW how they put conventionally attractive beings or characters or both above those who are nawt conventionally attractive . Rant under the cut I'm angy

So what tf am I on about ? MY HUSBAND . THE WAY THE FANDOM HAS TREATED HIM I SWEAR TO GODDDDDD .

Blue-haired S1 Shi was treated so gross by so many and if I had a dollar every time I read somebun being ableist back then I'd have had a small fortune . I had chuckled at the crusty jokes a little , because I was young and hadn't read up about BFRBs (body-focused repetitive behaviors , such as compulsive hair ripping or in his case , skin picking) , skin conditions and was generally less mature but even then it felt odd how nobody really . . . Talked about him aside from that , and like , maybe one other topic I'll get to in a sec with minimal conversation about anything else !

Of course I perhaps wasn't looking at certain sides of the fandom , and I have no doubt a small group of beings genuinely liked him / talked about him and his backstory / wrote things that weren't just sexua.lization but the loud majority on this was like this , y'know ? It was all "haha crusty ewww stinky" n shit like that , or the occasional "degenerate gamer [insert pure sexua.lization here]" but I never recall seeing more than maybe a handful of genuine appreciation for him , or curiosity / concern for his backstory .

And then came white-hair Shi , which I suppose I could blame some of what I'm about to talk about on the fact this change also came with him having a big moment w Chis.aki , but when it happens to this scale I cannawt provide that much benefit of the doubt .

I suddenly saw so many more beings start loving him , and although I'm happy it led to others opening their eyes on a character whom I truly love it all felt weird . Out went the insults and disgust , and immediately came so much love . But I'm nawt even really sure if that's the right word .

With all this sudden positivity , a lot of writing or art or whatever containing certain themes suddenly popped up . Beings who would talk down about him now seemed to still find him disgusting , but in a way that could please them . I have no issue with writing works like that , however , being who's apparently actually reading this ?? , it feels a bit upsetting to watch others only like uur favorite character because they can write him as some kind of massive , violent pervert .

I don't know I'm just so salty because I've loved him since way , way before he had that redesign . I love how he looks with his white hair , and it's what he was always meant to have , but I can't help but always think about how it's a safe bet to believe that lots of those who have accounts full of only thirst for him and claim to be his fans were also probably throwing around insults and making fun of him for his hygiene a few years ago .

Also like . Insert that one post that goes if uu claim to be a fan of a character but only care about them when uu can sexu.alize them uu are nawt a fan of that character . Okay . That's all I just had to get this off my chest bc I genuinely care so much about this for no reason and need somewhere to put it lol .

#➳ the fool speaks

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tangledbea · 2 years ago

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I got into the series later then some other fans and I have heard it said that ratings for the show went down after season 1and continued to decline. Is this true? I guess this surprises me because I greatly enjoyed this series. Is there a reason as to why the ratings dropped in later seasons?

I think I got psychic damage from reliving this and writing this replay. XD

It is true, and, as far as I know, it was a self-perpetuating problem on Disney's part.

Now, I'm no expert in ratings. I don't know where to go to look for them, nor do I know how to interpret what I'm seeing when I am shown ratings (last time I saw a ratings number for TTS, my only thought was, 'Okay, but that looks like a lot of people are watching it?'). But here is how it appeared to me, a layman, as I was watching the series air.

"Tangled: Before Ever After" was a Disney Channel Original Movie (DCOM for short), and was given a lot of fanfare by Disney Channel. It was aired in a prime time slot, on a Friday night, and ran multiple times over its premier weekend. The series started in earnest two weeks later, also on Friday evening. Disney aired reruns, made merch, promoted it, genuinely tried to get people to watch it. There were promotional posters up at the theme parks to drum up interest. There was a doll set and a Christmas ornament made to promote Queen For a Day, and after the episode aired, it was released on DVD. Tangled got its own panel at D23 Expo in 2017.

But from what I understand from what people who worked on the series told me, DTVA has a tendency to promote the newest, shiniest thing for a season, then turn its attention to the next big thing. In Tangled's case, the next big thing was DuckTales, which aired almost exactly five months after Tangled did. I guess numbers weren't quite where Disney wanted them to be, because despite pre-approving three seasons, they slowed on making merch after S1. I mean, a few things still came through for S2. There's the LEGO set of the caravan, for example. It seemed to me that they didn't catch the audience they were aiming for (girls from 6 - 12) and they didn't know what to do with the audience they grabbed (teens and young adults).

So, they stopped promoting it, stopped making merch of it (and what little merch was made wasn't aimed at the viewing demographic, but the target one), and what shot itself the most in the foot, they started changing the day and time they were airing it, pushing it more and more into time slots aimed at the target demographic instead of leaning into the curve and switching their focus to the demographic actually watching. New episodes aired on a moving target. If you weren't already keyed in to when they were coming out, it was difficult to figure out when it would be, because it kept changing. I had crew members tell me that they only way they knew when the episodes were airing was because of my blog. Sometimes they ran reruns, most of the time they did not. And when they did run reruns, it was in the middle of the day, when the only kids home were kindergarten-age. And when the series was on hiatus, reruns didn't air at all. This was no way to grab new viewers who might just happen to stumble upon it. At this point, the only way to watch it was to do so deliberately, either getting your butt up at 7 am on a Sunday or turning on DisneyNOW or your cable provider to watch it as soon as it dropped at midnight. The fandom had viewing parties, for goodness sake.

And then, Disney decided to blitz through the last part of S2 (after a six-month hiatus) and the first part of S3 in bomb format. The last part of S2 aired two episodes back to back, once a week. The first part of S3 aired them one right after another on consecutive week days before hitting us with a three month hiatus. Disney seemed to be done with it, and just running out the clock until the series was over. As a fan, it was an exhausting schedule to keep up. Even when it returned to its one episode a week format, it still aired first thing in the morning on Sundays.

It can't have helped that this aired when it did, societally-speaking. Things were rapidly moving from being aired on TV to being launched exclusively online. They were really trying to promote the use of DisneyNOW, and in the middle of Tangled's run, Disney+ launched.

Anyway, TL;DR, Disney didn't like the numbers it was showing by the end of S1, and so they stopped promoting it and started changing what day and time the episodes aired, which can't have helped those numbers. Instead of trying to make it better, they gave it up as a lost cause and made it worse.

#Tangled #Tangled the Series #TTS #TV Schedule #Answered

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rkrispyt · 3 years ago

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what's your favorite portwell moment and why? 🥰

WHAT A QUESTION! Do you realize what you're asking of me?

To pick only one?!

Me, rooted in truth and honesty, and taking these kind of questions way too seriously, legit thinking I have to weigh everything and come up with what is truly my one all-time favorite moment?!

Oh @scorpiospectrum, my friend. You sweet, sweet angel of a human. You didn't ask for this. I'm so sorry that this novel - nay, TRILOGY of novels - is what became of a simple ask you sent my way in kindness...

I reserve the right to change my mind later (maybe even moments after making this post tbh), but lemme try to make this choice from the top moments that immediately come to mind, in chronological order...BUCKLE UP CAUSE I'M NOTHING IF NOT VERBOSE AND IT'S BEEN A MINUTE SINCE I GOT UP IN MY PORTWELL FEELINGS!

Seriously. It's disgustingly, offensively long. Continue at your own risk.

The Quinceanero interview That moment, after watching Gina so incredibly sad and feeling so alone for the first 4, most of 5, episodes, the situations I've been in that left me feeling so similar, the old feelings Sofia's performance drudged up that I legit carried with me for DAYS after one particular episode, and then seeing the lightbulb moment where she realizes how far her standards had fallen - the bar was on the floor! - when EJ asks about her feelings out of genuine interest and care is...*chef's kiss*

I knew Portwell was coming going into Season Two. I was a R*na shipper in S1 after the Homecoming ep. I was a Gina stan from day one moment one because I was a big fan of Sofia's going into the show (I had seen her dancing in youtube videos she made and was a huuuuuge fan but knew nothing else of her ). 1.10 with that look after "it just didn't seem fair for you to miss all this", after it's revealed he got her the ticket, I was like "welp, that's happening next season" and resigned to Portwell happening but not at all happy about it.

Then 2.1-2.4 happened. And I had been there. And I know now that I deserved so much more but I didn't know it at the time, and I didn't think I deserved boundaries and who was I to have standards - beggers can't be choosers, right? And I'd started off in 2.1 happy that they hadn't dropped R*na completely but very confused about where they were going with it, because he was clearly happy with Nini, and I was happy that he was happy, and I had to admit their chemistry was off the charts and they were going strong, thinking "they're solid" and so how did Gina fit into that? And then R*na got into a place that was clearly not healthy for my girl. And I realized how much Gina initiated everything in S1. How maybe nothing at all would have happened in those moments if she hadn't been the one to always start them, and that's a lot of work on only one side if there's gonna be an actual relationship. And was I really actually into R*na or was it a little bit about their chemistry that I hadn't expected and a lot about it seeming like Gina was happy and I just really wanted her to be happy (the answer, I realized, is yes lol)? I watched all that at the beginning of season two and so wanted Gina to realize she was worth more and worth boundaries and worth not having to always initiate and to always try and to always fight and getting so little back from someone.

And when she set that boundary with Ricky in 2.5 I hollered and cheered, even though I hadn't even realized how much I'd shifted from shipping R*na at that point! And when she was crying while glancing at Rini, I literally said out loud to no one "omg, at least put her with EJ, at least he'll make her happy - she deserves to be happy!!!" And I was like "woah, did my anti-PW ass really just say that I want that and mean it?"

And then EJ did the bare minimum of giving a shit about her, which made her realize who WASN'T doing even the bare minimum. And she's never gone back. We love to see it.

And shockingly, I realized I loved to see it. It was the moment that officially made me Portwell trash, because I realized I was straight up giddy about this pairing that I was soooo not here for before. They set this up so well, it even converted me, and I never ever never multi-ship. I find my OTP and I stick with it or I have ships I like in a more chill sense but they don't give me all the feelz (as the kids used to say). Like I really dig Kowie and Rini and Redlyn and Seblos, but I don't get feelz and giddy about them, y'know? I get 'awwwww' about them, which is good but not OTP level good. I digress.

Somewhere on tumblr is the post I made after that ep. I think I unfollowed the R*na tag and dipped into the Portwell tag for the first time that day, reblogged a post from someone else being pleasantly surprised about liking PW, and I said something like "listen, when I tell you I was not here for it...I was REALLY not here for it. But now I want this REAL bad. What is happening?"

And that was the beginning of it all. :)

Career Day/Interview I will never in my life get over the way this absolutely charmed me. I swear there were unicorns and rainbows and puppies and shooting stars and everything happy and lovely and innocent and delightful and EASY in this scene between the early-stages-of-flirting flirty banter, Gina's snort, EJ's reaction to it, and that perfection of a moment when EJ is denying feelings, shows his hand with "why, did she say something?", Gina enters and hilariously bolts, and EJ's reaction to the camera. I am not worthy. Seriously, the moment that happened, I knew "this is going to be one of my favorite moments of this whole damn series." Perfection. So seemingly small but one that encompasses what I love about them so much. She had come from such sadness. So had he. And they were just so light and easy and smiling and giggling with one another. We saw how they just made each other so happy. It seemed so simple, so easy. This is a strong contendor for my fave I think.

The Couch Scene Actual footage of me watching the couch scene:

I always feel like the couch scene should be my favorite. It's a solid moment that really lets us know without a shadow of a doubt that this is happening; that it's not gonna be rushed so settle in; that it's going to be prominent; that they'd both given so much to others (her to Ricky, him to Nini) and were already finding that balance so well between giving and getting with one another, neither just taking or letting the focus be solely on them, they actually see one another and care about the other and appreciate being seen or making sure the other is seen; that it's going to have depth and be handled with care and real thought by the writers. I was truly surprised by the focus it got (I mean, that scene is so long!) and was so excited about what was to come. I was in Heaven realizing "oh, this isn't going to be some quick thing where we don't see things happen and we're told they get together or made more of a connection - we're gonna see it all and it's gonna be a journey with true connection and depth. OKAY!"

It's up there in my top three for sure.

AirPortwell Truly I could not tell you how many times I've watched this scene. The number is infinite, play it on my tombstone lol. I literally still watch it every single time it comes across my dash. I am powerless not to. I mean, if nothing else, the cinematography with the escalators is flawless. But also it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside every single time.

What I love so much about this moment is that it's one where the progress and change that these characters have made hits us in the face. It's happened slowly, it's happened painfully, it's been work for each of them, but now look at where they are and how far they've come. They're not there or those people anymore. Now they're here. They're these better versions of themselves.

First of all, the way he acknowledges the Duke sweatshirt?! Like it's not a big deal?! SIR! I thought we were being coy about this and not blatantly admitting gestures like giving her your sweatshirt, let alone calling out that she's wearing it?! MY DUDE! I was not ready. I'm not ready every time I watch it, lol.

The way that EJ swoops in, not focused on what he might get out of the situation or trying to win her over romantically with what he's doing, just there to help her and be there for her because she deserves it and he is going to make sure she gets it...it's just so selfless, from someone who in the past had maybe not been selfish but was certainly self-centered and self-serving in a problematic way. He just takes care of her. He's a partner without even realizing it, lightening her load, knowing she's had a rough day and saying "relax now, I've got this, I've got you". It's in the way he offers to bring her back the next day, a plan already formulated; the way he hands her the granola bar in case she's hungry; the way he takes her bags and heads off, literally lightening her load. And the fact that we, as the audience, see that and don't even question any of it because of course EJ would, it's what he does and the kind of guy he is, is huge. It's that moment we realize "oh! At some point EJ went from being the guy that we knew was gonna listen to that voicemail even as Ashlyn laid out all the reasons he shouldn't and he clearly knew better, to the guy that would obviously be the gentleman and chivalrously come in to help someone he cared about that was having a rough time". And let's not even talk about how absolutely adorable it is seeing his face light up, excited to surprise her. The way he's looking at her like a little kid on Christmas morning before he makes his presence known on that escalator, and he just beams as she realizes what's happening is just...I can't. I. CANNOT.

And last but not least: Gina's reaction to it all. I'm still on the fence deciphering the post she makes. Someone said with certainty when it first aired that she'd posted it to see if he responded/how he'd react. It kinda makes sense, especially with the way she steps away from Jack to do it, and kind of takes a breath after like "ok, now we wait and see...". There certainly feels like there's a weight to her doing it, and not like she just steps away for a second to make a meaningless post. Especially cause like, why interrupt that moment just to post that, it's not urgent in any way, it could've waited until after. But I don't know. I feel like I haven't worked out what's meant to be expressed by Sofia's performance in that moment.

But that interpretation could certainly tie in to her moment at the top of the escalator. It would mean she might be looking at her phone, seeing no one has/EJ hasn't commented or reached out at all. It could be that she was hoping he'd see it and offer to come get her. Or honestly it could just be her after a long day looking to see what Uber options she has, just tired from her day. There's potential for something kinda cute if it was about seeing if it got a reaction from EJ though and I won't deny to anyone who subscribes to that belief that it's a possibility.

But even without that, we get so much from her in this. We see her really have standards for herself. We see her reaction as Jack walks away, a pensive, intrigued look and sort of "hmm" exhale she does as she thinks on all that's occurred with him that day, what that option is that she's just walked away from, and whether it's what she wants. And then we see her reaction as EJ walks away...which I'll come back to, lol.

This moment when she realizes he's there is another one that I relate to HARD. Have you ever just had a rotten experience, or a rough day, whatever it may be or for how long, and you push through, and you have some people by your side through it, and you make the most of it the best you can with those around you...but then you finally get out of that to someone who feels like home? Someone who makes you realize "oh, that person by my side that helped me make the most of this rotten day doesn't actually even compare to you". Whether it's your mom or your best friend or your crush? It's that person that you didn't even realize you were wishing was there with you the entire time. That person would have made the whole miserable thing so much better somehow just by being there with you. Because you love being with them so much. Because they make you feel a way so few others do, whether that's just like you can be yourself or like you don't have to carry your burdens all alone or because they give you butterflies.

I watch that scene and see the genuine shock on Gina's face as she realizes it's EJ, and he's at the airport, and he's there for her, and she's trying to wrap her head around it...and then there's just joy. Unbridled, uncensored joy. Which is huge for guarded, burned in the past, be careful you don't misread the situation Gina Porter.

I watch that scene and I feel a kindred spirit as it dawns on her how happy she is to see him, and that she had a little adventure today but how happy she is that he is there with her now. That the person she really wants to be with her is finally here.

I watch that scene and I remember having days that tested me, that are ones for the books whether good or bad, that are those stories you can end up laughing about and retell forever, and how some of them I still remember feeling "oh how much I wish so-and-so had been there with me". That this person was the one I'd wanted to see and have with me all day. Maybe temporarily things seemed absolutely fine without them, and then they're there and you're like "oh no. No things weren't this and how I feel with you. There was so much missing."

I also love that once she realizes he's there for her, and it's all really happening, she's so taken aback by it that she doesn't say another word for the rest of the scene. PERFECTION.

It's like she's so caught off guard by it all, she doesn't have time to put her guard up, or censor what she's feeling or what she might be revealing. She stops being careful for just a moment, because she's blindsided by his presence. All she can do is feel all those overwhelming feelings, and have that big realization, and show it all over her face. All she can do is look at him like he's a unicorn, trying to wrap her head around the fact that he's there. That he didn't reach out first to offer, he just showed up. He's here right now, just taking care of her, not even giving her a chance to protest that she's no damsel in distress. He knows her so well that he brought what she'd wanted without knowing she'd been without it. He's there and 'Jack who?' He's there and no, she doesn't have any second thoughts about walking away from the chance to have her first kiss because that wasn't this, and even if it doesn't end up being with EJ it should be with someone who makes her feel like this. He's there and she's so happy that he is. He's there doing all this without even giving her the opportunity to question or protest, just to accept that someone cares and is going to help and she doesn't have to do it alone.

Then we see her watching EJ walk away. He's left her dumbfounded but in the best way. We see her beaming (that smile!!!), wrapping her head around what's happened, taking in all that transpired in that whirlwind moment when suddenly he was there, and she didn't have to worry anymore. We see her brain not having a chance to talk her out of it for once, in this brief moment where the feelings get to take over because there's nothing to stop them. And we see a similar "hmm" moment.

Watching Jack walk away there seemed to be a bit of questioning or wonder. With EJ there is just certainty, acceptance, and undeniable happiness.

I've always felt like through this episode we saw Jack help her get what she needs herself (with the whole "this is how you get yourself into the lounge if you're hungry and you forgot your granola bar. Ok now you do it"), and we see EJ show her that she doesn't always have to do it herself, that there are people she can rely on to help her, she doesn't have to bear her burdens alone. She's not a damsel in distress but she's also not an island. And this is Gina we're talking about, so it's clear which one is the 'lesson' she really needs to learn for growth from who she was and has always been because of her circumstances.

Risotto for real The stuff I LIVE for in stories and performances are these little, very real, weighted, layered/nuanced moments. Ones where you stop and really grasp all the aspects of it and realize how much is packed in there.

When EJ asks her out is maybe the biggest of those moments for me with Portwell. Along with probably Gina's reaction to EJ showing up at the airport.

The couch scene, fake dating, the classroom for career day, co-anchors, Wonderstudies, "may I have this exercise?" are all pretty clear cut. They're lovely and adorable and squee-worthy, but they're not as weighted because the stakes aren't high just yet.

The way I yelped - YELPED - at 3:30am in my apartment when they did the throwback to Risotto when he asked her out...I was certain I was dreaming. But then, so much more was happening, and I've watched that scene so many times just reveling in it all. It's my faaaaavorite thing as an actress and a director/choreographer to have all these things going on, all these ways to be looking at a moment, when it's really complicated if you think about it. That's my jam. That's like Christmas morning to me.

In that whole exchange, we see EJ approaching her trying to play it cool. For the first time maybe he's not just being himself, he's trying to be something to be cool to her. We don't really know why until he asks her out, and then looking back it's like "aaaaah, ok, it was nerves coming out as faux confidence and bravado". The way he tries to be all suave with his delivery of "how's the slumber party going?" and "cool" like some casa nova rather than just acting effing normal?! Hilarious. YES PLEASE.

The way Gina has a moment of (my interpretation of it at least) looking at him, knowing she's been here before and not wanting to let herself get in too deep so giving short answers that won't lead to a longer convo or flirty banter, then deciding to remove herself from the situation even though no doubt she wants to stay there giggling and flirting with him like her "shouldn't we all stick together?" self normally would?! YES PLEASE.

EJ's face as she's walking away and he makes the decision and we see him swallow then blurt it out before he loses his nerve?! YES PLEASE!!!! I have been in that moment so often, when I think "I'm so scared to do this, I'm not gonna do it..." and then some small voice in me is like "be brave, come on, don't let fear stop you from what you want" and I know in that split moment if I don't just do it, I'll overthink it and it'll never happen. I identify so much with that split second where he seems resigned to it, then "no, but I want this, I'm gonna do it", swallows as if to express "here goes..." and just says it before he can change his mind or chicken out, it's insane how much I identify with it. The way we see him watching her walk away and then he decides it's worth it is just...beyond words.

Then when she stops and looks at him with that expression that says so much! The moment of shock, then that very nuanced look she gives him that's simultaneously charmed by how sort of un-smooth his invite was, and her being sort of amused yet confused by the Risotto reference. YES PLEASE!

And then is one of my favorite moments of EJ ever: when he really just lets his guard down and we get a rare glimpse of his absolute, unveiled vulnerability in the way he says "for real this time?" Gone is the faux cool guy he attempted to be with her when he first approached her to ask her out. Gone even is the momentarily brave EJ that blurted out the invitation before she could walk away. All that's there in that moment is someone being real, and simple, and scared, and putting himself on the line completely to potentially be disappointed in a big way. There is no pretense that he's anything but vulnerable in that moment, and that his intentions are real because of what he's referencing. The subtext feels very "I want you to be my girlfriend (or "I want to be your boyfriend") for real this time". And I will never ever ever ever never get over it.

Ugh. Then Gina. We do not deserve Sofia Wylie. The way we see her joy, but blink-and-you'll-miss-it because then immediately in creeps that baggage that makes her doubt, convinced she's misread the situation again, talking herself out of what her instincts are telling her because she's been wrong in the past. It's like she has to find a way to stop herself from believing it could be real, even if her reasons are a stretch. 'Oh. I just mentioned all this to Ashlyn and she wasn't buying that I'm cool with him not being into me. She must have interfered because she's convinced I'm wrong.'

Seriously, the way that Sofia plays this moment and whole scene is one of my favorite things ever. The way she's a little awkward when he first approaches her because she knows how she feels and that she's fallen for a friend again, decides she's not going down that path so makes a flimsy excuse to walk away from him rather than letting herself flirt etc. because yes she wants to but she's going to be smarter this time and start to pull away to make those feelings stop before she's hurt again. The stakes are a little high, and then she seems to talk herself out of believing he's asking her on an actual date or that he's also interested in her in that way, and so the stakes DROP. They do a huge swan dive, cannonball, vanish as she thinks she realizes what's really happening: he's only doing this because his cousin forced him into it. It's not a big deal, he has no stakes in this. Even everything she's got riding on this falls away as she's instead consumed with "oh Ashlyn, so ridiculous that she'd meddle like this". Everything's lighter as the focus is on the seeming silliness of Ashlyn butting in.

Then she sees that he genuinely doesn't know what she's talking about. Not only that, but he uses a phrase that is familiar to her and her own feelings of uncertainty and confusion and doubt about what's happening between them. And she looks at him and has this revelation that is so layered! "Oh he DID mean it like that. Oh maybe he's as confused about it as I am...but he totally just put himself on the line and I just acted like it wasn't a big deal. Oh he could've just taken the out I gave him inadvertently and he didn't. Oh. OH SHIT."

And the stakes are immediately higher than ever. And she's immediately so HAPPY as everything he just said and his intention around it sinks in. Fucking brilliant. The way she just so honestly says "yeah" that first time has such a "that would be AWESOME" vibe, it feels like this enormous exhale after not realizing she's been holding her breath, saying to him so earnestly 'YES, I'm into this too!' in that one word...seriously Sofia, we are not worthy.

Finally, the way they just STARE AT EACH OTHER WITH THOSE BIG DOPEY GRINS?! Are you kidding me?! The way for the first time neither of them try to hide what they may be feeling, the way they don't break eye contact until Gina finally seems to realize how long the moment has gone on and gets even more goofily happy and finally breaks eye contact, the way that seems to break whatever spell they're under, the way EJ LITERALLY finally exhales since asking her (almost as if he was waiting for a 'but' during that moment they were just staring at one another), is all too much for me. The grin that breaks out on his face, the dopey way he says "ok" like "I DID IT! AND SHE SAID YES!" makes my heart do somersaults.

And the cherry on top: the way Gina clenches her fists and does that little giddy run over to Big Red because she's so happy but has to try to keep it under control and can't just do a little happy dance right then and there is PERFECTION.

Like I said, I will never get over this scene and all the little nuggets and the nuance. Or the way I chuckle thinking about how EJ really tried to come over to her at first like he was Danny Zuko all smooth and suave like he was gonna be some cool casa nova and ask her out, lol. The way this was written, directed, and performed for that short little journey of him deciding to just be himself and put himself on the line, show how he felt, and how she tries to make those excuses but eventually is forced to realize "oh, this might actually be what I want?" is pure gold.

Something There I still have no words. None are needed.

The moment they both glance towards where they know the other is on the other side of the legs and have this look that indicates they've got it bad for the other, while not knowing the other one is doing the same thing that very moment, I still cannot believe we got. It's the way they cannot seem to stop looking at one another, especially professional, 'all business' Gina Porter being ON STAGE IN A SCENE and sneaking glances at EJ Caswell as he does the same in the wings.

One thing I haven't seen anyone mention before that I love about this pertains to the moments they're openly looking at one another for the other to see. They make no excuses for why, offer no explanations. They're going for Risotto. He asked, she said yes, they both have an understanding or assumption of what it means the other is feeling. This hits harder when it's contrasted by the moment in 2.12 where he's gone into defensive/protect myself mode because of what Jaime said, while Gina's still in this place. She's doing and saying things that half an hour ago he'd flirt with her about or laugh at or compliment her on ("yo Gaston!", her little twirl showing off her outfit, joking about rescheduling, questioning the squid ink risotto he was joking about earlier) but the bubble they were in has been popped for him by bad intel ;) and now he's gone back to being too scared to put himself out there enough to return to how they'd been since he asked her out and she said yes.

In this moment though, and the scene before it in the hallway when Jaime's introduced, and no doubt in the two weeks leading up to opening night after he asked her out (goodness, how fluff filled were those two weeks?!), they are both letting their feelings be out in the open. They're flirting, they're happy, they're not disclaiming any of it but instead are letting the other decipher what it means including the possibility that *gasp* 'he/she will think it means that I like him/her! I'm not saying I do...but I'm not saying or acting like I don't...' Fluffy fluffy goodness and I am so ecstatic to at long last see these two characters I loooooove finally happy and finally surrendering to the reality that they make one another happy and not being so afraid of it (or so we think) anymore. They've earned it. The writers and actors earned it. And this payoff feels so good and so so deserved.

Honorable Mentions: *taking photos at HoCo (even then when I wasn't shipping it I remember this scene and thinking "holy hell they look goooood together") *the shoulder bump in Salt Lake Slices in 2.10 *I'm an unapologetic simp for the duster and the bluster. Matt's "I meeeeeean" is one of my favorite things ever, lol. But the fact that they're so adorable, in a light, cute, sort of comical way, and that they finally admit to the crew that they're into each other ("someone I dig...a lot" and Gina admitting it's a date) after so much "no, we're just friends!" up to this point, is so underrated. *I'd say the kiss but OH YEAH - WE DIDN'T GET TO SEE IT YET!! That being said, shout out to EJ dropping his bag in the parking lot to go get his girl and Gina's giggle before she starts running towards him/they run towards each other. Ma'am. Who gave you the right to make that moment so effing cute? *their convo/moment in 1.10 when we find out he got her the ticket and she looks at him at the end of it like maybe she's misjudged him this whole time *and one that legit almost made my short list but the reasoning doesn't hold a candle to the ones I listed: the moment in the airport when Gina's smiling like a smitten kitten after ending her Facetime with EJ, GIGGLES(!!!), looks up to see the camera crew has caught her, realizes she's busted, and immediately drops her smile knowing they know what's up. The way I love that moment, because we see, when she thinks no one's watching, unfiltered for the first time truly how she feels about him, and that she drops her smile so she KNOWS she feels it and she KNOWS that she's hiding it normally? GTFO, I can't deal.

THE ANSWER, AT LONG LAST TO YOUR QUESTION... now that I've spent waaaay too long typing this all up and going deeeeep into my Portwell feels instead of doing what I needed to get done tonight (eek!), and after going to watch a youtube video of all their season two moments to help me decide, lol. Shoot. This was much more difficult than I expected, and I was expecting it to be a doozy!

Ok! My favorite Portwell moment?

*drumroll*

I think I gotta go with AirPortwell.

Yeah, I think that's the one.

It was so close and such a hard decision (CLEARLY judging by the absolutely disgusting length of this post) but in the end I think the clincher was how I'll always remember what that scene meant in my journey as a Portwell shipper.

First and most importantly, I always thought with Portwell that it was clearly going to be Gina that would be the one most reluctant and that would need won over. She seemed to end last season with her feelings for Ricky still there. She seemed the least emotional, like she'd learned to operate with her brain and not her heart. It seemed as if Ricky opened her up to the latter in S1 and I could only foresee that the burn from that not working out would cause her to retreat into her non-emotional state more than ever before. She also has just always struck me as someone who'd really have a journey to get to a place that she'd be willing to be vulnerable. I always felt like she was going to be the one that would be admitting or realizing last, and that a/the big obstacle for this ship would be her not being willing to open up or admit feelings or be open to exploring feelings.

But it was this episode where we finally saw that our girl was a GONER, and I never ever expected we'd get something even close to this in a million years. I felt like Portwell officially sailed in this scene.

I remember watching this episode and waiting for the other shoe to drop the whole time after the camera crew 'caught' her being all smitten after the Facetime with EJ. That something would change her mind and she'd make some decision to not pursue or be open to that and it'd be put to bed for good. But it didn't happen. In fact, the exact opposite happened. We got to see at the end of this episode that Gina had fallen. Not only that, but she realized it. And she had realized she was ready to be open to the possibility of opening her heart up to someone again. The power or upper hand felt like it was Gina's from 2.5 to 2.7, and honestly through a lot of 2.8. But by the end, we saw that she was just as powerless as EJ about her feelings, and he had the upper hand with her as well. We saw him all calm and cool while she was the one with heart eyes this time. And from this ep on, we knew they were on equal footing, both crushing on one another, both getting a second chance.

Also though, this episode was the one that I realized how much this ship had won me over and how invested I was. There was some speculation (treated like spoilers tbh) going around I think literally hours before this ep about something very different happening, setting things up to go a different route. The confidence with which it was put out there had me convinced I'd missed something and it was true. I remember debating whether or not to stay up and watch it, thinking things like "why did they do all this to set it up if they're just going to tear it all down this ep? Ugh, that SUCKS!" I went to bed figuring I'd wait and see in the morning how upset other Portwells were after seeing it and then decide when I'd watch the ep, but then I ended up not being able to sleep (for totally unrelated reasons). I realized at one point it was after 3, debated for a few minutes, and finally decided to watch. I think it was after they snuck into the VIP lounge that I was like "I have to know, I can't just watch this and wonder" so I did something I never do and skipped ahead to the end to see if she was gonna get with/kiss Jack or something along those lines. And I saw EJ arrive and that they were talking and that it was close to the end time-wise so it must be the last scene, and it gave me hope so I went back to where I'd stopped and finished it.

Afterwards I was like "the hell?! I got myself so upset and worried when this episode ended up SOLIDIFYING that Portwell is happening?!" I try to remember the lesson of that when I see things that might normally freak me out or see others seemingly in crisis.

It just holds a special place in my heart. It makes me feel a lot of things, mostly grateful for what we got because I was convinced it was all going away that ep and we wouldn't get anything more.

Like I said, all up in my Portwell feelz now.

Leave me. Save yourself.

There ya go, my friend! How sorry are you that you asked? lol

#portwell #portwell nation #hsmtmts #anti-rina #gina porter #ej caswell #my babies #ask #I seriously don’t know how anyone can comprehend this written train of thought but bless you if you can get through it

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deltaengineering · 3 years ago

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Spring Anime 2021: Embarrassment of Riches

So this current anime season absolutely stinks, which just makes the last one look even more impressive. Well, maybe not all of it...

Zombieland Saga Revenge

First off, you don't need to tell me that the following is a severe outlier opinion. We good? Ok. ZLSR is, in a word, subpar. I liked S1 back in the day, but it was already in the process of getting lazy towards the end. S2 continues this trend and is basically just another idol show. And as someone who actually does watch other idol shows I have to say that it's not a particularly good one of those either. The zombie gimmick has mostly stopped mattering and we're just doing what every idol show does, only with the odd occasional sight gag. The alleged subversive qualities mostly amount to a flashback for Yuugiri, which is admittedly the best part of the show but feels like it barely has anything to do with anything. Apart from that, it's a bunch of generic idol plots, rehashed character beats, shoddy attempts at twists (while not connecting to any setups from S1), and the obligatory "idols give us hope" ending, which is terribly hackneyed and flat out bad. Tae gets further memed into the ground, because of course she does. And there's stuff that was simply never good to begin with, like Kotarou and his comedy schtick, which gets truly insufferable now that there's no qualities to distract from it. It really makes me think that S1 wasn't even all that good to begin with and seems like an attempt to turn this surprise success into an easy money longrunner with no edge and no ambitions. "The idol show for people who don't watch idol shows" indeed, but not the way you mean it. 4/10

Bakuten

But not to dwell on the failures, with the second show we're already above the cut — barely. This one got my attention with its really impressive performance scenes early on and it totally sticks to that, which is even more impressive. But besides that? Well, this is by far the most predictable show in a season where I watched an unambitious Kiraralike and put ZLS on blast for having no ideas. The characters are a mixed bag, some are cool (Shida, Asawo), some are very annoying (Mashiro), but those are the supports. The main cast is extremely one-dimensional, which is fine until they try to heap a ton of pathos on their lead, which doesn't go well. But I guess execution matters, and Bakuten is slick enough to get by. Writing this down in stark daylight I feel like I overrated this show somewhat (I actually put it over the next one originally, which definitely doesn't hold up when thinking about it), but I was indeed mostly entertained. 6/10

Yakunara Mug Cup mo

Yeah. Of course Mug Cup definitely doesn't invent or subvert anything either, but it's a pretty good Kiraralike that's always entertaining to watch. Explaining the qualities of such a nothing genre is as difficult as ever, but it mostly comes down to me liking the characters and it having nothing to annoy me. It's shorter than normal, which is a plus for slim shows like this. And yeah, you can make an excessive amount of dick jokes with the clay fondling. That helps too. Looks are just fine, pleasant but nothing out of the ordinary. Comfy low-effort anime. 6/10

Vivy: Fluorite Eye's Song

This one is decent, but sadly still a major letdown. Because the first few episodes of Vivy were excellent and kicked ass, but then it became increasingly clear that the writing can't cash the checks the ideas wrote while the action starts running into severely diminishing returns. Vivy just keeps slowly getting worse and worse as it goes on, not by a huge amount each episode but by the end there's a pretty sizeable gulf between potential and result. Going into detail would probably be a little much for this venue because there's a lot, but from the top level view the issue is that while Vivy has good fundamental ideas and steals at the right places, it just isn't a smart show — it's schlock, and by the end, poorly thought out schlock that tries to smooth out every problem with liberal application of the big feels hammer and le epic twist at that. Yeah, couldn't tell that the Re:Zero dude was aboard here, for sure. That said, it still works pretty well as entertaining schlock that is not to be taken too seriously, and the characters are generally just very fun to watch even when they're doing stupid things. Still, I can't in good conscience rate this higher than Beatless, a show that looks like butt but properly executes on its ideas. 6/10

Super Cub

So this is 100% a Honda commercial, and I got really mad a Yuru Camp last season for being a blatant shill. Yet I'm feeling this, what gives? I think the main difference is that Super Cub is specifically a commercial for one product (and a very iconic product at that), while Yuru Camp is so all over the place that it ends up mostly a commercial for consumerism in general. And when Super Cub goes too hard on the product (which it does), it's at least pretty entertaining. That's something about Super Cub in general: It goes hard. Your regular Kiraralike this is not, because it's uncommonly slow, focused and moody - yes, it almost measures up to Yuru Camp at its best and demolishes it at its worst. Also, it's just extremely amusing to see sadblob Koguma grow a huge grizzly biker beard and become a badass outlaw dad to her goofy wife and cute daughter, all thanks to the power of afforable personal transportation. Needless to say, that can get unintentionally silly, but Super Cub has so much charm that it doesn't matter — it's great when it's good and still funny when it's not. 7/10

Shadows House

Shadows House turned up with a lot of potential, and I have to say it at least delivered on most of it. It has some problems; notably I'm not a fan of how the entire middle turned out to be a tournament arc of sorts that seems curiously inspired by Resident Evil memes, crest-shaped intentations and boulder punching included. I also think that this is a show that would be perfectly fine without explaining much, but I guess it is a shounen manga after all so we got dumped on eventually anyway. At least that came late - close relative Promised Neverland didn't show that much restraint. Shadows House is generally well written though, with great characters, interesting interactions and a great hook. But what really makes it memorable is that it's exceptionally good at the cute/creepy contrast, something that is often tried but rarely works as well as here, with great character designs and very appropriate production. I hope this gets a sequel, because it seems like it's just getting started. 7/10

SSSS.Dynazenon

Coming in with a fondness for Gridman, Dynazenon didn't have to do much to convince me. The surprise though is that it's not a rehash even if it's basically the same show, a character drama where occasionally huge and goofy fights break out. Dynazenon is Gridman done better, and the interesting part is how it accomplishes this - mainly by being far more conventional. I do appreciate that Gridman went for something weird and almost experimental, but that only really paid off towards the end while most of the show was a distraction/holding pattern. It just didn't feel like there was enough material for a full series there, more like a movie maybe, if even that. Dynazenon fixes this by just being a TV show, with an actual cast of characters that each have their own arc. And by spreading the material this way, Dynazenon ends up having a lot more nuance than its intensely focused predecessor, while having the same themes and not actually being any deeper. In a way, Gridman ends up looking like the spinoff in retrospect, while Dynazenon is the full package. 8/10

Thunderbolt Fantasy S3

So how good was this season? So good that Thunderbolt Fantasy doesn't end up at the top, that's how. And all the elements that made Tbolt such a sure thing are still there, big hammy puppets doing stunts and scheming never gets old. However, I do have to note that at this point, the writing appears to have gotten too comfortable. I don't expect it to ever top the amazing S1 ending, but at this point it's like Tbolt has stopped trying to deliver on endings at all and seems in the process of retooling itself into a longrunner instead. Barely anything gets resolved in S3 (the climax is that the climax of S2 is resolved again, for good this time... maybe), and everything else is just setting up plotpoints for the next season. Tbolt is truly lucky that it doesn't actually need to resolve anything to be a great time, but at this point I have to say that I'd appreciate it if they wrapped it up with S4. 8/10

Nomad: Megalobox 2

Speaking of sequels to shows I liked, Nomad doesn't so much improve upon its predecessor but steamrolls right over it. This is a tall order, since Megalobox was surprisingly good for a sports shounen and had a real nice, heartwarming ending that Nomad instantly negates for purposes of drama and everyone being extremely miserable. That sounds like a pretty terrible idea - and it would be, if Nomad wasn't as excellent as it is. To call it not the same show would be an understatement, because it's a true sequel, not just the same characters doing their thing some more, or new characters doing the same thing as the old ones did. Indeed my biggest problem with Megalobox was that it still closely adhered to its genre template and was very predictable; Nomad fixes this issue thoroughly. Nomad is about questioning what being a hotblooded shounen protagonist eventually leads you to, and how to fix everything you screwed up by being one. You could call it a deconstruction, but that term has been so abused for cynical, edgy "thing you like actually sucks" takes that I feel like it doesn't really fit here. Nomad isn't cynical at all, it's just a character drama about some boxers past their prime, and it being a sequel to a show that is indeed rather formulaic just enhances the experience. My biggest issue with it was that I really like what they did with Joe in this story, so the big focus on Mac's backstory felt like a distraction for a long time. But in the end that turned out to be absolutely necessary to make the ending work. The ending's just great, by the way, and I shall say not more about it. 9/10

Odd Taxi

Yeah boy, here's the show that has apparently become somewhat of a "greatest show you didn't watch" meme, which I can feel smug about because I don't need YouTubers to tell me what's good and followed this from day one. Anyway, Odd Taxi is indeed great, the greatest show in a few years even. What starts out as seemingly a relaxed hangout show in the vein of Midnight Diners quickly turns into a psychological murder mystery while never losing its quirky humor. The character writing is outstanding, with even small bit players being on a level that the average anime wishes it could have for leads. And the rollout of the mystery is exemplary, with answers given and new questions raised every episode with a satisfying and logical payoff in the end. This is also the rare anime that has rock solid production from the first to the last second; it's never really flashy but excellently done and highly consistent nonetheless. And the music just owns. I have a few complaints, mainly that there's a few logical weaknesses in the story (which wouldn't even register in a lesser show, but sticks out here since the rest is so immaculately constructed) and that the ending overextends on the emotions when the rest of the show is so reserved and dry in comparison. But those are only the reasons why I didn't give it perfect marks, and I almost did that anyway. 9/10

#Zombieland Saga #bakuten #yakunara mug cup mo #vivy: fluorite eye's song #super cub #shadows house #ssss.dynazenon #thunderbolt fantasy #nomad megalo box #odd taxi #anime #review #spring2021

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handonhaven · 3 years ago

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So I just saw this post that made me mad but also made me laugh all at once. The post pretty much said that Handon is the most hated ship in the fandom and that even actress Danielle Rose Russel hates Handon and called them dragged out. That Handon only purpose was the bring Hope out of shell. And that Handon is a mother son relationship. It just goes on like that(and you can tell a H*ise made that post). It just made me laugh because 1 Danielle never said she hates Handon, I think she's one of the biggest handon shippers I've seen. I've seen so many people say at the beginning she was, but she still is now. 2 she never called Handon dragged. People are really still twisting around that interview she did back in March. When she talked about Handon she said she was really excited about where Handon is going. And that part where she said "dragged out to get to this point" she wasn't talking about handon(it was a while after she stopped talking about handon when she said that) and even though she didn't state what she meant by that she could have been talking about anything, the malilandon plot, Hope finally putting herself first. But I guess antis decided to forget about the part where she said she was really excited about where Handon is going. And when they heard dragged out just decided that Danielle was talking about Handon even though she wasn't.

Also that part about the only purpose for Handon was to bring Hope out of shell is just not a very good argument or even true. Because if that was the case handon would have been over after s1, they wouldn't have kept them together. Even Brett said in an interview back in June that Landon is one of the, if not the most important person in Hopes life. Whenever I see people say stuff like that I'm truly convinced that they're watching a completely different show.

And let's be honest the only mother/child relationship on the show is between Hope and that school. They go to her with every little problem they have. They expect her to put the school and them over herself all the time(just like a mother would for their child). And then when she does put herself first for once they act like she's betrayed them.

P.s sorry to vent/rant like this. It's just whenever I see stuff like that I get a little upset. And not because they took the time to twist around and make up stuff. It's that they tag Handon in it, so we can see it, probably thinking it's some type of win for them(kind of like how they think the new staff writer is gonna give them a win, but that's a whole other thing that I don't want to get into right now). I can get not liking a ship and wanting your ship to happen and I know ship wars are a thing no matter fandom your on. But can they just stay off our tags. Because it honestly feels like they're more obsessed with Handon than we are.

I’m not even surprised, sounds like the same old stuff. Yeah, Danielle has never expressed that she hates Handon, quite the opposite. Ikr, she still likes Handon, why else would she have suggested Hope sing a love song to Landon if she only liked Handon in the beginning? If she hates Handon so much now, why did she say in that March interview how excited she was about Handon this last season and how big a part Landon has played in Hope’s character arc and how much she’s enjoyed playing how that has impacted Hope? In a season where Hope’s love for Landon was solidified more than ever, and she fought for him all season long? Do they honestly think that if she hated Handon that she would’ve been acting that happy and excited in that interview, and voluntarily bringing up Handon throughout the interview without being asked?

And yes, she never said Handon’s relationship in general was dragged out. They really do twist everything and completely ignore the last part of her sentence where she said she thought “it was a bit dragged out to get to this point.” And now that we know there was no Handon breakup, we know she didn’t mean she thought it was dragged out to get to the point of them breaking up, so why are people still holding onto that? And she actually was talking about Handon when she said that, I went back to rewatch that bit to make sure and she was responding to a question about Handon. But I don’t see that as anything negative about Handon at all, because if Danielle thought things were dragged out to get to this point for Handon’s relationship, what point did Handon get to? Yes, they’ve been in a horrible situation all this time and have been apart when they haven’t wanted to be, and they have a lot more crap to deal with, but Hope’s love for Landon is as strong as ever and she’s determined to fight fate to be with him. So how does this help the antis? But like you said, Danielle didn’t say what exactly she meant. She said it was a “long time coming between the characters,” so she could’ve been referring to Malilandon, or Hope and Landon coming to terms with their fate and fighting that, or yeah, she could’ve meant Hope putting herself first and fighting for her happiness with Landon when she struggled with that in the first two seasons. Which was dragged out imo, it took a while for Hope to get this point where she believes that she and Landon can be together and be happy, and that they don’t have to be doomed. And it’s taken a while to get the point where they’re really facing Malivore as well, so Danielle could’ve been referring to any of these things. But however I look at it, I don’t see how it means anything bad about Handon when you consider the context of how she said “dragged out” as well as what happened with Handon this last season. But yep, people will pick and choose what they want to hear and what they want it to mean, while ignoring all the positive things Danielle said about Handon.

And yeah, if people think the purpose of Handon was only to get Hope “out of her shell”, they’re really just not watching the show. Hope and Landon’s relationship has done so much more than that, it’s helped both Hope and Landon grow and develop as characters in so many ways. And if I went into all of those ways, this post would become even longer, I could write a whole other post about it. But it’s crazy how people totally miss so much of what goes on in the show. And true, Handon wouldn’t have lasted if that was their only purpose, and Brett certainly wouldn’t have said that about them either.

My gosh, not the “mother/son” thing... yeah, when it comes to Hope protecting others like a mother would, yes to all you said, you’re right. Once again, people pay no attention to the fact that Hope protects and saves everyone at the school all the time and how dependent they are on her, how they expect her to do everything for them. Meanwhile, Landon actually tries, he doesn’t expect Hope to do everything on her own and doesn’t want her to either. He has continuously done whatever he can to help Hope and is always trying to be better. Hope and Landon are a team, and that has been stated on the show, Hope literally called them a power couple. Yet those people really keep comparing their relationship, a romantic relationship, to a mother/son relationship? I can’t...

And I get that, it’s definitely so annoying how they’ll tag Handon in their stuff, it can make it almost impossible to avoid hate sometimes. Yeah, it seems they do just wanna take what they think is a win and rub it in Handon fans’ faces. Exactly, the least they could do is stay out of the tags. It makes it so obvious what they’re trying to do when they don’t. Haha yeah, it really does seem like they’re more obsessed with Handon than Handon fans sometimes with the amount of time they spend hating on them. It’s pretty sad.

#answered #handon #danielle rose russell

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sevensided · 4 years ago

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this is just my experience but i watched s1-3 as a casual viewer before i ever joined a fandom at all- and i took mileven as it came (i thought they were very sweet but i wasn't too concerned about it yk? i completely agree the family/friend dynamics are the focus). so i wouldn't say it's impossible for byler to become canon & be accepted by general audiences even if most didn't catch the queer coding. all byler needs now is a decent build up that's explicitly romantic imo and id say the 2 more seasons we're getting would be sufficient to make it happen gradually and naturally (ik many fans are already firm that it's been romantically built the whole time but to be completely honest i missed all of that while in general audience lol). it's the perfect time to start i feel like given all that happened in s3, and them being so close in 1 & 2, almost felt like a turning point? that said i really am on the fence about whether i believe it'll ever be a thing. i love that dynamic regardless of it's relationship status but i am hopeful the writers will surprise me 😂

Thank you so, so much for this message @rosyrosalie and I think you’ve brought up some really important points!

You’re very right in that Byler is not obvious to the casual viewer. I personally had a slight suspicion when I watched it the very first time, but it was only upon rewatches and some thinking that I thought there might be something deeper. Now that I’m on board, it seems relatively clear.

I also agree that it needs an explicit romantic build up. With El and Mike it was there from the beginning, and I think I’ve said elsewhere that if ST was made in the 80s then Mileven would 100% be endgame, because it fits the genre and it also pays homage to the stories that the Duffers draw from. It would be a perfect (if overdone) full circle. In comparison, Byler is the dark horse. I would lay money that there would be fans who watch S4-5 and complain that their relationship development doesn’t make sense. But that’s not our job to convince anyone: that’s up to the writers to illustrate how embedded Byler is to the story and how it’s been an undercurrent since the start of the show.

This does make me wonder as to how they’ll accomplish this. In order to realistically portray Byler, they’ll need to:

Show Mike no longer has feelings for El (partly done in S3 finale)

Show that Mike not only doesn’t like El, but doesn’t like girls

Show that Mike likes boys

Show that Mike not only likes boys, but likes one boy in particular

Show Mike accepting his feelings for Will.

And then you have a whole new cycle: Mike struggling with (what he perceives to be) unrequited love for Will. That needs to play out until Will’s cycle is complete, which would look like:

Confirmation that Will likes boys over girls

Showing that Will likes one boy in particular

Showing that Will likes Mike, and always has.

Mike and Will have actually very different trajectories. As it’s been mentioned a few times, Mike’s resistance is external (what will his family, friends think?) as well as internal (I can’t be gay, I like girls), versus Will, whose struggle I see as being wholly internal. It was laid out in S01E01 that Will might be gay (“Lonnie used to call him a f*g, said he was qu**r” / “Is he?” / “He’s missing is what he is!”), which, as we all know, gives Will ten times more queer coding than Mike from the start. I disagree slightly that Mike has had a lot of queer coding. In my view, it’s far easier to see Will as gay than Mike. In this sense, the writers have a large job on their hands in showing the audience how similar Mike and Will are, and how Mike is, in fact, not only gay but in love with Will. I don’t think it’s impossible by any means. But you are right: it would probably take two seasons to get there.

At this stage I’d posit that realistically you’d need S4 to bring Mike from uncertain to questioning to acceptance. Then you’d need S5 to bring Mike from believing his feelings are unrequited to Will responding affirmatively to them. A two season arc altogether. And that’s not even taking into account all the subplots and, of course, the main story, which is Will versus his power.

Regarding what you said about turning points... I agree with you. I think this sense is helped significantly by the Party growing older. They’re becoming more self-aware, more mature. They’re figuring out where they fit in the world and what role they have to play in it. That can’t be underestimated. So much of the show is about growing up and being true to yourself. Along with family and friendship, I’d say that’s a tertiary theme: self-acceptance. It’s illustrated in different ways through the show (D&D is just one example - on the surface it’s shown as nerds versus everyone else) and S3 was certainly evidence that those underlying, conflicting feelings are coming to the fore and (in Mike’s case) disrupting everything they hold dear.

I’ll wrap this up because I’m just going on a tangent, but suffice to say I agree with you, totally, that this will be hard to pull off from a writing point of view. But I contend there’s enough evidence in canon to pull the strands together. I think it will take at least two seasons to manifest, but S4 will be deciding season. Not to build it up or anything, but you can’t realistically have S5 be the “big reveal” because it’s probably too late by that stage and could come across as pulling Byler out of the hat. But given the subtle foreshadowing it’s received so far, I don’t think that’s the case. Thank you again for your message!

#byler #s4 theory #st 4 #s4 #stranger things 4 #*#answered #i do sometimes feel a bit like booboo the clown so dw i do know how you're feeling #rosyrosalie

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mochuelovelli · 4 years ago

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Okay so I've read and watched a lot of material covering speculation as to who the triplets father is/what he meant to the Duck/McDuck family and I gotta say I've been somewhat dissatisfied that not many people consider that maybe Della used a sperm donor to have the triplets bc I think both Della's personality and parts of the show itself support this possiblity over another such as "Della had a husband that she loved but he tragically died before she crashed on the moon".

So, what would motivate Della to have children via a sperm donor?

Her personality: she is an adventurous, brave, and incredibly skilled individual. She's also stubborn, impulsive, and impatient. If "Nothing can stop Della Duck!" Surely, not having a partner to have a child with wouldn't stop her from having one (or three)!

Her Job: Adventuring with her family as a pilot surely would have absorbed quite a bit of her time, even if sometime during it she went to college (like Donald was confirmed to do in order explain José and Panchito). Even if she was an active Junior Woodchuck Ranger Scout when she was a kid, she still might of put off a lot off "normal" kids with her abrasive personality similarly to Webby in S1. Though, I don't think this would have been something that would such an inhibitor once she'd be college aged (even if she never went) bc if it was a problem she'd find a way to fix it. If anything, she just might find regular people boring which leads me to-

Della's family: going on fantastical adventures with your uncle and brother (and possibly your cousins occasionally if hcs are to be believed) can leave finding someone "normal" to settle down with to be underwhelming to Della. Sure, she could always find someone willing to join such high stakes adventures but they might not be what she is looking for in a partner for one reason in another or maybe even more critically, who she wants to be the father of her kids. Plus to Della, why would she NEED some guy to be a father to her kids when she has her family to back her up? They are Scrooge McDuck and Donald Duck. The most brave, trustworthy, and knowledgeable adventurers she knew! Plus they are already family! She knew how to handle them and could raise her boys with 100% control!

In the Show: okay so main reason why the show might support this theory is all the lack of evidence that the boys biological father was ever a person to be considered in helping raising the boys even before Della planned to leave earth. I also think given the season 2 Moon Arc, someone like Lunarius would have totally used an estranged father (someone who either died tragically but the triplets were unaware of or someone who was a deadbeat or even evil) to seperate Scrooges family even more by sowing seeds of distrust. However, when we are shown Scrooges family tree (his hit list) the boys dad isnt even listed. There isnt even a blank box with a question mark in it or anything, he isn't even considered. It is also important to note that Lunarius is specifically targeting the family members that would impact Scrooge and his mystery loving niece and nephew. HDL are who he decides would break down this family dynamic because none of them would want to fight for the earth if their kids weren't alive. They also wouldn't want to know their kids last thoughts about them were filled with anger and confusion over why they never learned about their dad. Therefore the triplets are already aware of their dads circumstance or if they arent, his reveal wouldn't be something earth shattering.

Conclusion: i still highly doubt we'd ever get a straight answer when it comes to their dad. I think the show creators will purposefully leave it ambiguous for fans to figure out since discussing such a topic might be a little too much for a Y-7 show. The most I can see them get away with is a little joke in a future ep(especially if it supports Della was a little *ahem* irresponsible when she dated)...something like: "Well, I'm glad Donald has already taught you when to use a 'life vest'".

Edit: I also think it be interesting to speculate more on what the family dynamics Della and the rest planned to have before she got lost. Like since we know a partner wasn't in the picture, how big of a roll were Scrooge and Donald originally going to play in raising the boys? Would it be Della with supreme reign as a single mom most of the time with help of Donald and Scrooge occasionally as babysitters? Like godparents? Or since they were presumingly living together at the time of her disappearance and Donald seemed to be very protective of her kids (maybe that's just how Donald is with Della and he is up in her business when she intended to raise her way only or he was just over stepping his boundaries at that point but it seemed to me that Donald at least was much more involved in the raising the triplets than "just an uncle" would. To me at least. I also assume scrooge would be just as involved but obviously treat being a guardian of the triplets differently than Donald.)

I posted this at like 3 am originally so sorry if not much of this is very detailed. I hope more people will expand upon this bc its very intriguing to me. Both the part behind who the father is/ what is his significance if he has any and the original roles scrooge and Donald would play in raising the boys (to me this is more interesting since we have more concrete evidence to discuss while it feels like the triplets fathers ID doesn't seem all that important to either the show or the characters up to this point and is just kinda fan filler if that makes sense).

#feel free to comment and speculate as well I love to hear your opinions on this #especially in regards to the possibility of this being answered or you find a flaw in my logic #ducktales #dt17 #donald duck #della duck #hdl #scrooge mcduck

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serenagaywaterford · 6 years ago

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1) Hey, it's me again. The idiot rambling anon. I wasn't gonna spam you again, but then I read your responses. At this point, I'm convinced you're my alter ego, lol. My thoughts are all over the place, but I'll try to organize them. So, about Nick. I've purposely avoided talking about him so far, but why the hell not? Let me make one thing clear: I'm NOT of of those thirsty fangirls. But even if I was? I wouldn't get offended or butthurt, because another person likes different fictional

2) characters (of all things) than me. I mean, big fucking deal. Each to their own, no need for apologies. ;) (My tone is a little aggressive, I know, but I’m sick and tired of some people on social media –in and out of fandoms– acting holier-than-thou and sending hate messages and even actual death threats (!) to creators or people that express unpopular opinions*. It’s reached a point where many people feel the need to put disclaimers in their posts so as not to be attacked.)

3) Back to Nick. I liked him just fine back in early S1, when he was all mysterious and his background story was unknown to us. When we did learn about it and the fandom started acting like he’s that pure, handsome angel uwu? Nah. Obviously, he’s no Fred/Serena/Lydia,but he’s not a “cinnamon roll” either. (Imo, the only decent dude on that show is Luke.) I mean, if Nick was SO altruistic, he wouldn’t have joined this job. Or even after everything went down, he could have tried to help other

4) handmaids without expecting anything in return. But no, he only helps June and that’s because he’s in love with her. I’m not blaming him for trying to survive under such circumstances, but I won’t idolize him either. Now, in s2? I’m kinda neutral about him. I don’t hate him, but I can’t say that I’m a fan either. Not gonna lie, he bores me at times, because he’s just… there. No sparks, no fireworks. Not sure if it’s the writing that doesn’t do the actor any favors, but his acting hasn’t

5) really drawn me in yet. A counterexample to this? Aunt Lydia. Her personality is despicable 98% of the time and yet. Dowd’s captivating performance makes me want to know so much more about her character.) On the other hand, I’m glad that June has someone (besides Rita) to back her up in that hellhole. She needs comfort and allies. But the whole ‘tRu Love 5eva" fanon thing? No, thanks. Not only it doesn’t fit the tone of the series, but I also believe that sharing an intense, forbidden love/

6) during such a shitstorm is not the same thing as keeping it alive after all is said and done (post-Gilead). Maybe they’ll stay together (as long as Nick doesn’t die), maybe they’ll fall apart. I can’t really see June romantically reconnecting with Luke either. After everything she’s been through… She’s a completely different person now. Unfortunately, the same things goes for Emily and her wife. Even though I’d love to see her interact with both her wife and her child in S3.

———

My inbox is so beautiful right now! Never, ever call yourself an idiot, my friend. (If you are, then so am I!) Brain twins, you see.

(Also sorry about this being out of order lol.)

I was trying not to talk about him too cos generally I just … I prefer not to think about him much. The fangirls, just, *sigh*. I try to avoid as much as possible in this fandom, esp on tumblr. Just hang out in my quiet little, not-Serena-hating corner. I always feel a need to put disclaimers these days cos as much as I don’t really care about random hate, I’d prefer not to have to deal with dogpiles or to look at it lmao. Like people can go around just hating on any character here–especially if they’re women–but say one critical (not even hateful) thing about their male fav and things just go off.

I’m more than aware the majority of people don’t like Serena and think she’s the worst thing ever. And fair play! (I get it… cos I’m not delusional. She’s awful.) Each to their own. I don’t go around bitching at people who say shitty things or stuff I don’t agree with, or blocking anybody who doesn’t like her. (There are a few posts I do engage with cos normally they seem like they want to go deeper in The Discourse but most Serena/Lydia/Eden/Janine/June-hate I just ignore.)

ITA. S1 was, like, okay. That’s Nick. What’s he up to? What’s his deal? (I don’t really care but I’m not opposed to him either. Just like I didn’t care about Luke’s backstory/escape.) He’s trying to be good to June and she needs that.When we did learn his backstory I was not pleased cos he seemed like a twerp but whatevs. Grey characters are grey. It wasn’t until S2 that I started to get irked by him (and the hypocrisy of his fans but that’s a whole other issue).

I can’t agree ANY more with your assessment of Nick. Like that’s EXACTLY what I’ve been saying! Firstly, he was RIGHT THERE when the Handmaid/Ceremony thing was first suggested and was like “Oh, yeah, great idea!” to Fred. I get that perhaps he was pressured to go along to keep his job but that’s a stretch imo, and if you can give him that sort of leeway, why can’t characters like Eden, Serena, Lydia and June get the same benefit of the doubt for certain things? Why is Nick’s pressure to keep his job more important and forgivable than anybody else’s pressures? It’s like that entire scene doesn’t exist to fangirls and Nick is so precious and in love and wonderful. Then there’s the rape of June. Like I know it’s pretty controversial to look at it that way, but that first time, with Serena overseeing it like a fucking creepy pimp (YUUUUUUCCCKKKKK I HATE IT THANKS) was rape. June barely knew the guy and I’m pretty sure if she wanted to have sex with him it wouldn’t be like that! And sure, after that, it was totally consensual but that first time was not. And I’ve heard the justification and excuses of “Well, Nick didn’t have a choice either!” which I call bullshit on, cos Nick is not some powerless delivery boy.

He’s a fucking Guardian who is tight with the top Commanders. He’s a man, if nothing else. Serena can act all high and mighty but she’s still a woman in a highly misogynistic society. I’m not convinced Fred would take his wife’s word over Nick’s tbh, especially if it was like “Dude, your crazy wife asked me to fuck the Handmaid you’re obsessed with”. If he really didn’t want to do it that badly, he could have taken that chance to report Serena. Even if Fred wanted to keep it hush hush away from other Commanders, he would have gone after Serena. Men are far more likely to turn on women than each other, esp in THT. But that’s just my take. Maybe I am missing something about Nick’s status. To me, it was like double rape. Neither of them wanted to do it, like that anyway. But Nick also did fuck all to stop it when IMO he did have some power to do something. He is not a helpless victim in that society, imo. Again, probably not a well-received opinion.

Don’t even get me started on his “Poor me!” routine in S2 when June tells him to have sex with Eden. I’m glad she called him on that bullshit. (But again, over the fangirls heads. Enough about them!)

Basically, everything Nick has done wrong isn’t his choice; he’s just a victim. In a story about women, Nick’s victimhood at the hands of these nasty women and men is the real issue. Blah. Whatever.

I just find Nick lacks total self-awareness about being part of the shitty ass system. He kind of just floats around thinking nothing is his fault and he’s blameless for it all, and he certainly can’t seem to see it from anyone’s perspective except his own. He’s upset about Fred & June’s Jezebel trips, not for her own safety or well-being but mainly he’s jealous. Of course he’s concerned about her safety but I believe it takes a backseat to his jealousy. He just seems to never take any responsibility for anything.

And BINGO about the previous Handmaid. Nothing we’ve been shown has given any hint he cares about any other woman’s plight in Gilead other than June, and only cares about her cos he had a crush/fucked her/is in wuv wiv her. Basically, she’s HIS so suddenly he cares about her. Look how fast he dumped that Martha as soon as he got brooding about June. He’s done fuckall for anybody except himself and that alone makes me dislike him. He’s no better than Fred in that way for me. But where Fred can occasionally be an interesting villain, cos Fiennes is nasty good, I find the actor who plays Nick just… not engaging. And he’s not SUPPOSED to be a villain! He’s meant to be a good guy! It’s crazy. He’s not compelling, he’s not interesting. He’s bland. He’s not even good looking, lol. I was watching with a friend once and mention I thought Fred was way better looking than Nick and she just stared at me and said, “You shouldn’t say that. But me too.” So, count me in the camp that just does not get the appeal of the character OR the actor.

I don’t hate Nick generally. I am just totally indifferent to his existence. If he left the show tomorrow, I’d shrug and probably be a little glad I don’t have to see that bland moping anymore. If he stays, oh well. Shrug. And I just don’t want his and June’s star-crossed romance shoved down my throat. It’s so… I dunno. I’m not opposed to June finding solace and hope but making it some beautiful forbidden romance, I’m not buying it. Like you said, it’s all well and good in Gilead–but it doesn’t strike me as something that can be sustainable outside it. To borrow from you last time: It’s the Handmaid’s Tale, not The Guardian + the Handmaid’s Tale.

Okay, enough about that pipsqueak. I don’t even like talking about him, tbh. He’s not worth it when there’s so much else going on.

ITA about Luke/June too. I feel like the level of disconnection and trauma that they’ve sustained, especially June, they can try to reconnect but it’s pretty difficult and I think especially with June having a sexual/romantic relationship with Nick pulls that really tight. It’s just two different planets they live on now. I don’t doubt that she still loves Luke, but actually reforming the relationship they previously had seems like an impossible task considering everything both of them have been through. It’s sad, but … sadly true for many people. Relationships can fall apart for far less.

And on the same page about Emily/Sylvia too. She is just soooooo fucking broken, and hopeless, that if they have them just rekindle with no issues, it’ll be bad writing. (I dunno if you see spoilers but there’s one about them.) She needs therapy so much more than a cutesy feelgood storyline.

Back to Lydia: Exactly! There’s a character we know very little about and who is a horrible person, yet the performance by Dowd makes almost everyone go, “TELL ME MORE!” With Nick, it’s the opposite for me. I’m just like, “Please, less of this.”

#Anonymous #rants and raves

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