#look i don't hate rumbelle but also sometimes i do

[emmaswanned]

just finished rewatching the iconic ouat episode "skin deep" and at the end of it rumple tells belle he simply loves power more than he loves her and she's like THAT CAN'T POSSIBLY BE TRUE oh i assure you it can as he proves time and time again over the course of 7 years

[ryik-the-writer]

No one:

Me: You know who would have been better as Belle's infidelity partner than Will Scarlet? Jefferson.

Before I begin, THIS IS NOT A BELLE HATE POST! Yes, I am going to address IT, but I am not putting her down for this...and I'll tell you why.

So after that god-freaking-awful twist in 4x11 when Belle sends Rumple over the town line, both he and Belle are left shattered at their dubious betrayals, the latter of which so much so she sought additional comfort (again, not hate, just hear me out).

That love interest ... for whatever reason ... was Will Scarlet, a cameo from Once Upon a Time's short-lived spin-off OUAT in Wonderland, which had ended a few months prior.

I, along with a good chunk of the fanbase, thought it was a unique choice, and most likely a way to acknowledge the spin-off in canon.

Don't get me wrong, I like Will as a character in OUATIW, but he was just off to me in OUAT. Like he was just shoved in there without a real purpose. Even his scenes with Robin Hood felt forced to me.

And honestly, it seemed strange to me that Belle, the logical scholar and fruitful romantic, would break her wedding vows of all things even after what Rumple did.

BUT THEN AGAIN, I also don't think it's established how intensive wedding vows are in this universe. I mean, Snow technically cheated on David with Dr. Whale, and while it's addressed comedically, it's not really addressed as an issue in their marriage but they comfortably move on from none the less.

Of course, it's obviously just the show's weakest attempt at *drama* and a way to baffle the Rumbellers into stunned silence so they can focus on *other things* (I am NOT going THERE today.)

And I think I remember an article or something about Will's actor's Michael Socha, feeling underused and wanting out especially since he had a kid at home. While he has a few zingers between him and other characters like Rumple and Hook, he looks so awkward when he's on-screen with Belle, like even he doesn't know why he's there!

But for the sake of *drama* Belle needs some side yum. Cool. Girl's gotta work out her frustrations some way right? But WILL SCARLET?!

This Will Scarlet?

"I love you Anastasia Tremaine" Will Scarlet?

Who ripped his heart out because her betrayal was just too much?

For freaking sake, they had a TLK!!!

I will only, and I mean ONLY accept the following two theories as a reason why...this happened...

1. This takes place during Will and Anastasia's break.

It's established in the OUATIW that the events in the spinoff are happening sometime in either late-season 1 or early season 2's canon. I think. But maybe, just maybe, it was actually around season 4's timeline? The timeline is screwed to hell anyway so...

Ana's presence is established in OUAT after Will, who broke into the library and vandalized a copy of Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, is arrested and held indefinitely. And while Will looks distraught at the mention of his former love, but he's not devastated enough

The scene subsequently serves as a pointless but sweet way to introduce Belle and Will. I myself wrote a fic few years back as a way to fill in how that played out afterwards. But the actual writers just kind of tossed it in there.

And dropped it.

Yeah, WIll just kind of disappeared after season 4. Thanks for stopping by, I guess.

And btw, you cannot convince me that a guy who reacts like this after watching the love of his life get killed in front of him:

Like I kid you not, Will's screams and cries were stuck in my head after that episode. I gasped and covered my mouth. I remember feeling the same way when Graham died in OUAT because Emma's grief was just as raw as this. This is not the kind of grief you just up and move on with so casually. This sticks with you.

BACK TO JEFFERSON

Okay, I swear, I have a point.

Again, if Belle just *needed* a love interest during her break from Rumple, fine, but why not use the opportunity to do some freaking fan service after that Frozen mess?

Bring. Back. The. Hatter.

Why Jefferson?

He has an established relationship with Belle.

Even if the ugly truth is Jefferson had to know Belle was being held captive in the hospital asylum, Belle would still, begrudgingly, be grateful he freed her and reunited her with Rumplestiltskin. Maybe he tried apologizing with coffee, and...things happen.

Plus he has an established relationship with Rumplestiltskin PRIOR to Belle.

No. You cannot tell me these two:

...were just "business associates". No these two were hitting shroons in Wonderland every Tuesday at happy hour, do I make myself clear? It's obvious they weren't friends but they worked well together.

That scene in the shop would have been BANGER if Jefferson had been in Will's place. I mean the possibilities are endless with their establishment. They could have opened up an opportunity to explore more of Rumple's deals with Jefferson to find a way to the Land Without Magic, or even their shared connection with Regina, established, beloved connections in the series the audience would be comfortable with.

And honestly, I think Belle and Jefferson could have very nice chemistry too.

Their both worldly, and I can see these two sitting at a booth in Granny's forever as Jefferson told her her stories about his travels, maybe even a few tales about his deal and possible friendship with Rumplestiltskin. And maybe he helps her heal a bit.

That scene in 4x12 where Belle and Hook talk about Rumple really rubbed me the wrong way. What Rumple did to Belle and, yes, even Hook, was awful, but Hook never had to answer for his part in Rumple's decline. What did he think would happen if he threatened to blackmail him with Belle of all people?

Not to mention, Belle and Grace would have gotten along so well.

At this point in the series, Grace is a young teenager, and could possibly use a female presence. She like Henry, would probably understand that her father needs more companionship and would support their relationship. And it would be great foreshadowing to Belle's own relationship with her child later on. And Belle LOVES kids and could have formed a very promising bond with Grace. Regardless on how her relationship with Jefferson could have ended, Belle would have this girl over for sleepovers every week.

[sieben9]

hiiii i have a question that you definitely don't have to answer!! But i noticed you signed up for rumbelle big bang and i was just wondering if english is your first language?? And if not, what advice would you give someone who would like to write fanfics in english but it's not their first language? Do you know how to find a good beta or something? thanks!

Hey there! Nope, English isvery definitely not my first language. (Technically, it’s my fourth.) I’m notsure if I can nail down any useful advice from my mess of a process, but I’lltry.

I decided to group this intothree categories: before writing, during writing, and after writing, and thenthis got a lot longer than I thought it would. So please read on under the cut:

Before

Read a lot of English prose.Chances are, you’re doing that already, because a lot of fanfic is inEnglish, but it felt worth mentioning. This way, you’ll gain a “feel” for thenatural patterns of the language, which are otherwise really hard to teach.

Maybe read up on some grammar.Not to memorise the rules, but again, this will help you keep the patterns ofthe language in mind. (For example, I should really read up on Englishpunctuation, because I use about twelve times as many commas.

Now, your next decision is a big one: do you want to pre-write this fic in your native language or do you write it in English from the get-go?

Personally, I’m firmly in the second camp, because… well, mostly because it comes more naturally (and translating is hard work), but there’s definitely something to be said for the other option. You can view this as a zero-th draft, if you like. Get down all the important stuff, then don’t really translate that story, but rather re-write it in English. That’s potentially a bit of extra work, but it may also save you a lot of grief. Just… do whatever sounds better to you. I just wanted to mention that you have options.

There’s also a weird littletrick (that dermatologists hate… sorry, had to) that I learned from a writingpodcast that you might want to try: Before you start on your own prose, grab abook (or fic) with a similar “tone” as the thing you want to write and justre-key a few paragraphs/pages (whatever feels right). It’s important that youactually type out the words, not just read them. I don’t know how itworks, exactly, but it does something to my brain that always helps me get intothe “zone” much faster than I do normally.

During

First of all: ALLOWYOURSELF TO WRITE IT BADLY!I’m sorry about the shouting, but this is so, so important. In writing ingeneral, but even moreso if you’re writing in something other than your nativelanguage. You have to juggle the whole entire mess of plot, dialogue, charactervoices, motivations, setting, etc. etc. and navigate all of that around a languagebarrier. That is, frankly, a ridiculous amount of work, and there is noneed to do it all at once. You’ll probably have to do a language pass, anyway,so don’t agonise too much about your style in the first draft.

Next: [BRACKETS]

Examples:

“As they made their way backto the house, she noticed a [SCHLEIEREULE] gliding silently across the nightsky.”

“Outside,[IRGENDWAS DARÜBER, WIE DER REGEN GEGEN DIE FENSTERSCHEIBE PRASSELT]”

Yes, these are both actualexamples from my writing. Don’t judge me.

Basically, the brackets makeit easier to keep up the writing flow, and they become doubly important whenthe language itself is something that will trip you up often.

Lastly, and I might get yelled at for this: if a word doesn’t feel right, and you can’t say why, maybe go to a thesaurus site and just… have a look around. With a bit of luck, you’ll find the word you actually want to use. As always with these things, use in moderation, and don’t replace a “simple” word with a more outlandish one just for the sake of replacing it. Simple words are great!

After

I really think the most important part of this is finding people who will check your writing and use of language. You can only do so much by yourself without getting a second opinion, because you’ll always be limited by your own understanding of the language.

Unfortunately, I haven’t hadthe guts to find a beta for myself, yet (though I really, really should), so I can’tgive you any practical advice for this part. If you have any native English speakers amongyour writing friends, you could maybe ask them, even if they’re not in your fandom.What you need is a language pass, not a content edit, after all. Other thanthat, I can imagine that a request for help in the rumbelle fic tag might yieldresults. (If someone knows something here, please chime in, I’m terribleat approaching people!)

Last of all, and this isimportant: don’t drive yourself nuts over this. If you’ve done all of theabove, but the fic still feels kind of “off” to you? Post it anyway. People aremuch more forgiving of small slip-ups than you might think, and your next onewill probably be better, anyway.

Whew, OK, that got a lotlonger than I expected. I hope something in there is helpful for you!

EDIT: I am also sometimes a bit of a dunce, which is why I didn’t remember this earlier… there are a bunch of non-native English speakers in the fandom who’ve written a lot more than I have! (@thatvermilionflycatcher and @sarashouldbestudying immediately come to mind, but I know for a fact that there are quite a lot more than that) Try asking them, too, they may have better adivce.

[somewhereapart]

So, I had the curiosity to go over your exchange with that weird anon trying to say that us, OQ fans, aren't ERs as well and... I don't get it at all. I understand someone not liking the thing I love. I understand the person loath the thing I love, but why in the world do people insist on pushing their visions on others? That's so gross! Not to mention claim things that were never part of the OQ dynamic like sexism and Regina being reduced to a LI. People really see what they want, it's amazing!

Everyone has their own interpretations, and I think that sometimes people lose sight of the fact that their interpretation isn’t the only valid one -- especially if their own interpretation is what they see echoed all around them in their spheres of social media.

This is really one of those things where I cannot stress enough the value of following people who don’t necessarily like what you like. Not necessarily people who hate it -- although I have done that, too. I have followed people who are very anti-OQ and anti-Sean, etc. and I usually end up unfollowing them eventually (or unfollowing for a while and then following again, most often -- I’ve unfollowed a lot of them right now bc Sean is coming back to the show for a while and I want to be able to enjoy it without people ripping on it), but for those times that I am following them, I get to see who they are as people, and what we do have in common, both inside the show and outside of it. And I feel like that really helps in seeing people as people not just as shippers. 

It’s a lot harder to assume all Hoodies have a low IQ if you regularly interact with smart, passionate Hoodies. It’s a lot harder to assume all of Swen are just angry lesbians if you’re regularly interacting with Swen who are kind and thoughtful and brave. It’s a lot harder to assume all CSers are children who think rape culture is just the bee’s knees when you’re regularly interacting with CSers who are parents, and advocates, and genuinely good people. 

And, look, I do a lot of scrolling past things I don’t particularly care about on my feed, but I do also have the opportunities to see what Rumbellers like about Rumbelle, how CSers interpret CS, how much personal value Swan Queen has for Swen. And I don’t always agree with what I see, but I find it’s a lot harder to be an asshole about ship-based stuff when I see all these shippers outside of the battle zones. 

It’s a lot harder to send hate over ships when you have names and faces and relationships with people in those ships. It’s a lot harder to say “all CSers” or “all Hoodies” or “all Dragon Queen shippers” or “all Swen” when you’ve seen that there is not actually a hive mind, but a collection of individuals who are each here for their own reasons, and who, by and large, are kind and respectful.

But when that’s not your sphere? When you’re surrounded by people who are constantly ripping on one ship or the other, who are constantly denigrating their shippers as all one thing, or all another, who have lost sight of them as individual people and not just a big group of wrongness, and whose interpretation is validated again and again by the people they interact with who share that interpretation -- well, then it’s really easy to believe you’re the only one who’s right. And I’d imagine it’s also really easy to believe that all those people who are wrong need to be told they’re wrong, and that your fandom experience would be better off without them. 

I disagree, wholeheartedly. 

I think my fandom experience is made infinitely richer by Swen, and CS, and DQ, and Rumbelle, and Snowing, and DOQ, and Red Queen, and Swanfire, and on and on. And as a result, anons like these don’t actually hurt me -- because I know that their opinions are not everyone’s. I know that their opinions are just that -- their opinions. I know that everyone has very different interpretations of the text, because I see it every day. I interact with it all the time. I have been seeing it for the three years I have been active in this fandom.

It’s much the same in fandom as it is in life -- broadening your social sphere to include people who don’t see the world they way you do helps you to learn about those people in a way you can’t from within your own bubble.

Anyway, this got long, but... there ya go.