#knowing they're being targeted by bullies or assassins/kidnappers because their father's a murderer?

[kanansdume]

I like living in a middle ground where Anakin gets consequences that are a little more meaningful than "he has to live with the knowledge that he done fucked up" but don't go against the concept of the Jedi not going for harsh punishments. Because in the examples with Anakin and Ahsoka, their punishments match their crimes generally. Anakin's a little late to a meeting, it's not that big of a deal. Is it frustrating and irresponsible of him? Yes, but nobody's dead because of it, so the Jedi mostly just ignore it. Ahsoka disobeyed orders out of stubbornness and arrogance, which is a bigger deal and so she does actually have to do something as a result of that, but because she's still learning it's better to let her re-orient herself than to punish her. Ahsoka loses a lightsaber, the best thing to do is to help her find it.

But when you get to the point of Anakin committing whole ass genocides against the Jedi, desecrating their home, helping bring down the Republic, that's not something you can just overlook because at some point he decided that maybe those things weren't such nice things to do. Even if he does end up turning on Palpatine and helping bring down the Empire, it doesn't bring back the Jedi dead. It doesn't take the stench of death and darkness out of their home. It doesn't undo the fact that the Jedi are probably still not safe to just live their lives in the Republic. It doesn't undo the enslavement of the clones (and the crimes THEY have to live with that they aren't even responsible for but that they'll always have to remember as their own choice now ANYWAY). It doesn't undo the pain and misery inflicted upon the other citizens of the Empire. It doesn't undo the torture of the Inquisitors.

That's not something he can fix by spending a day in an Archives re-orienting himself. Nor do I think any of the Jedi would respond that way.

So the middle ground is that Anakin never gets to be a Jedi again because who the FUCK would trust him after that? Even if they forgive him, who would trust him around Jedi younglings again? Who would trust him with any knowledge of where they LIVED if they even have a central place where the Jedi can come together? The middle ground is that Anakin can work to rebuild his relationships with the people willing to give him those chances, but has to accept the relationships he has irrevocably LOST. The middle ground is people like Ahsoka and Obi-Wan being willing to help him find his way again and then walking away afterwards because they can't look at him the same way while they're still alive and their duty isn't TO HIM, it's to the Jedi who are still recovering from his atrocities and to the people of the galaxy who are ALSO still recovering from his atrocities. The middle ground is that Anakin doesn't get to get everything back, even if he is forgiven for the things he's done by the people most important to him.

Anakin gets to have a happy ending of sorts, he can probably get Padme and the twins back because, well, Padme is who she is, but he doesn't get EVERYTHING back. And it's not a punishment, it's just that he broke a shit load of trust and the Jedi are unwilling to make themselves that vulnerable to someone who's proven themselves so willing to hurt them a second time. They're in a place post Order 66 where they don't have the luxury of just letting Anakin back in and assuming they'll be safe. They don't have the luxury of being able to focus on rehabilitating Anakin into a Jedi lifestyle. They HAVE to prioritize themselves because there's so few of them left in a galaxy so extremely dangerous to them now. Anakin's a liability.

And Anakin should have to accept that. Accept that forgiveness doesn't mean everything goes back to the way it was, that his actions will have serious consequences that change things for him. That he's caused a lot of loss and people aren't going to be able to trust him EVER AGAIN. That even if they love him still, he's still going to represent pain and betrayal to the people he cares about more than anything else and it's too difficult to be near him anymore. Anakin should have to figure out how to LET THEM GO for their sake, even if it means he loses them forever.

The whole point of Ahsoka going to the Archives was to learn patience, to re-center herself so that she can understand how she fucked up and not do it again. She's learning a lesson in there, same as she is with Tera Sinube. Anakin's consequences should ALSO force him to learn better, should force him to re-evaluate things to the point that he finally, FINALLY, learns the lessons he should've learned years earlier. Let those consequences force him to learn how to LET THE FUCK GO for once in his entire life.

The choices don't have to exclusively be "he burns in lava" or "he gets back basically every relationship he had before this and gets to be a Jedi AND be married to Padme with kids as if nothing ever happened because living with his choices is painful enough." There's other options in the middle with serious consequences that would be very difficult for him to have to live with as befitting the seriousness of the choices he makes that still allow for a modicum of sympathy towards Anakin and an understanding of the Jedi's willingness to forgive and offer second chances. The options for what Anakin might have to suffer as a result of the awful choices he makes and the realistic reactions people may have to him for the rest of his life even if he changes his mind at some point are limitless.

Even though I love Star Wars and the whole main theme of hope and stuff, whenever I hear about how those close to Anakin would've accepted him back, even after everything he has done, rubs me the wrong way. Maybe I'm not getting the point of it, but to me it feels like when they offer Anakin to come back, to turn away, that there plan is to forget everything Anakin has done and just move on as if nothing ever happened. Like no consequences or anything. Like I said, I'm probably missing the point. But for some reason it feels wrong for him to run away with Padmé or Obi Wan and not face any consequences.

If that's the way you feel, then that's the way you feel! I'm not being sarcastic or throwing any shade about it, genuinely that your feelings on it are valid for you, because that's how stories and art works, that we each have our own reactions and I’m not about to try to talk you out of yours.  Everyone works differently and no person is obligated to feel one way or another. But when it comes to the greater themes of Star Wars, there’s a Howard Kazanjian quote that touches on it: “I said to George, ‘Why? This guy [Vader]—he’s like Hitler. He’s killed. He’s done all of these terrible things and now we’re saying he’s equal with Yoda and Obi-Wan, as if he’s gone to heaven or whatever?’ George pointed to me, he was real close, and he says, 'Isn’t that what your religion is all about?' And, boy, that was like being slapped in the side of the face, because, yes, it is what my religion is all about, and obviously his, but I hadn’t thought it through.—Howard Kazanjian, producer of Return of the Jedi. It’s not specifically about any one religion (especially as the Jedi are Buddhists) but it’s a common theme in many religions (for memory, Buddhism teaches that forgiveness is an end to suffering, which is an important theme with Anakin imo) and it’s not about letting someone get away with something or that there are no consequences, but it’s about not clinging to the past, it’s about not holding onto the anger and hurt because they make you suffer just as much, it’s about how the Jedi don’t strive to punish people, but instead to help them onto better paths. An important distinction to keep in mind here is that consequences and punishment are not the same thing.  Consequences can be “Anakin has to live with the knowledge of what he’s done.”  Consequences can be “Obi-Wan/Padme/Ahsoka can never again look at him and not see the trust he broke, even if he earns it back, even if they will love him through it.”  Consequences can be “They can never have the life they once had ever again.” Punishment is making Anakin suffer for what he’s done, punishment can be a form of consequences, there’s a lot of overlap, but that it’s important to note the two aren’t mutually exclusive and the Jedi have always leaned hard away from punishment that makes people suffer.  (Look at TCW, Anakin does stupid shit all the time and they never punish him, look at Ahsoka messing up and her punishment is working in the Archives, something that’s not meant to make her suffer, just to help her re-orient herself.) In death, Anakin’s last moments were ones of genuine selflessness, that (as Lucas explicitly says) he didn’t care about what happened to himself, he just wanted to save his son, regardless of what that meant for himself, whether he would live or die, whether he would force Luke into what Anakin wanted for him.  That moment isn’t about saying, “Well, then all the other stuff he did no longer matters.”, it’s not about saying that they’re equal, but instead saying that forgiveness is about letting go (one of the core themes of Star Wars), that the Jedi would rather help someone back to the light than to punish them in the dark. When the Force Ghosts offer Anakin the way to preserve himself in the Force, that’s what it’s about, that Anakin turned back to the light and they wanted to help that, they’ve always been about forgiveness and second chances.  To turn Anakin away after a sincere moment of selflessness and desire to turn back to a better path, that’s just not who they are. Now, when I talk about how Obi-Wan or Padme or Ahsoka would have accepted him back while they were alive, that can take on different shades of motivation, to my mind.  The above all still holds true, the Jedi repeatedly offered second chances when they could, but I think it’s also that those characters specifically loved Anakin so much that they would have taken him back even when it was maybe unfair.  Jedi aren’t perfect people, they have their own biases, they have the people they’re closest to, the ones that they would do more for, would pour more of themselves into than others, because that’s how people everywhere work.  And they loved Anakin Skywalker so much that they would forgive the terrible things he did because he’s burrowed his way into their hearts. We never really see what that taking back looks like, whether they were alive or dead when it was offered.  Anakin refuses to turn back for Padme, for Obi-Wan, for Ahsoka.  We don’t know what kind of consequences he would have faced afterwards, but I have a hard time believing that there would have been no consequences.  But the two aren’t mutually exclusive--being willing to accept someone again doesn’t mean you have to sweep everything to the side and pretend it never happened.  (Though, I think it’s fun to play in messy areas of how much would each of them be willing to look past, because they personally don’t want to lose him again, even if it’s not a moral or ethical thing to do?  If Anakin ran away with any of them and avoided punishment, I personally would see that as kind of a deliciously fucked up scenario that’s about how attached they are to him, how they’re willing to let others’ suffering stand because they can’t bear to live without him.  That’s one vein in which I write meta about Obi-Wan or Padme or Ahsoka accepting him back.)(Primarily, though, I’m of the opinion that there would be consequences, just that they wouldn’t be punishment-focused consequences.) When Anakin becomes a Force Ghost, we don’t see what that process is like or if there are consequences of it, we don’t know what his journey is like after that, only that Obi-Wan and Yoda were willing to accept him again and help him preserve himself in the Force. For me, I’m willing to roll with no consequences for Anakin if it means I’m getting other things I like, like I want my baby to be happy, I want shippy fic, I want Jedi reunion fic, etc.  But I do prefer consequences for him--not punishment, but consequences, like what he did is probably never going to be forgotten, they’re forever going to look at him and remember what he did, that he murdered children, that he helped enact genocide on the galaxy, that he helped enslave and torture billions of people.  Forgiveness =/= forgetting. But ultimately I think the Jedi are focused on healing and harm reduction, rather than heaping more punishment onto someone.  Punishing Anakin further wouldn’t gain them anything, they get nothing out of holding onto that anger at him, instead it actively hurts them just as much as it hurts Anakin, because that’s the whole way the Force works, that holding onto anger and hurt = the dark side. They don’t forget, but they do forgive, because that’s the way to end everyone’s suffering.  You don’t necessarily have to agree with that worldview, it’s perfectly fine not to!  Lots of people don’t, it’s normal.  But it’s how these characters view the world in general and Anakin Skywalker in particular, it’s the theme that Lucas wanted for Star Wars.