#just remembereed we've never posted this fucking thing

[mantisgodsdomain]

[Image Description: Screenshots of a discord chat. Participant's names have been censored. Full transcript below cut.]

Blue: ...new thought thinking about how vi and hoaxe are direct narrative foils

Purple: owo???

Blue: just!!! thinking about narrative foils in general kabbu's got the beast, a traditional antagonist in the way of directly hindering what kabbu's trying to do leif has a more abstract foil in the zommoth, with the horror and dread of "is this what he would have become?" in one of those "scrooge looking at his own grave" things he actually has two, one in the form of the watcher to a lesser extent but vi? well she doesn't appear to have anyone ...except hoaxe

Blue: two neglected outcasts going down drastically different routes in search of the same goal they both want to live cushy, comfortable lives, being accepted and revered, but they go about it in different ways vi has something to prove, both to others, and herself. she accomplishes it through greed, not even after the money as much as what it represents: power, a power she's been deprived of her whole life. bees don't get the power to choose what they are, they even barely get to choose who they are, and she wants that to change and hoaxe, disoriented from being thrown abruptly into a whole new world, down to different water and sky, seeks survival, and survival means power. he wants to survive, and he sees his opportunity in the form of the crown, throwing away everything he had for a shot at what he thinks will save him from suffering in this strange land and he succeeds. but in doing so, he ends up becoming the antagonist to everyone else, not knowing how to handle suddenly having all this power, and goes to war to try to seek the next step, because… well, what now? it wasn't built up to, his mind hasn't registered himself as "i am safe and will survive" yet, it all happened so fast and that instinct to live still remains, even if he's no longer under any threat

Blue: so, what's the next step of continuing to live? seeking everlasting life.

Blue: the difference between hoaxe and vi is that vi could adjust to her steadily increasing fame and fortune, handling it well and responding properly to suddenly having more influence on the world, while hoaxe threw himself head first into it and went crazy with delusions of what he was supposed to do now one was earned, and thus was prepared for. one was a random chance, and it was like winning the lottery. what now?

Purple: this is excellent

Blue: vi and hoaxe's parallel is that vi had a plan, hoaxe didn't, but so many of their actions are similar both are willing to kill for their goal both can be incredibly antisocial both are, by far, not good (moral) characters

Blue: vi seriously considers leaving kabbu to die twice (and a half, considering how she tries to run at the end), shows no compassion for leif when he was possibly dead or injured throughout chapter 1 (web scene and post-river scene, since leif didn't wake up for a while), and managed to get kicked out of a place that canonically hosts blackmailers, gamblers, murderers, and peddlers kabbu outright calls her vile she's possibly the furthest thing from a hero that isn't a villain, but she manages to grow as a person and learns how to use her newfound power that she was always after properly hoaxe on the other hand, he was thrust into a position of absolute control with no prior experience, no one showing him how to rule, and no one offering him guidance and someone to fall back to when it got too hard the thing about hoaxe and vi? if vi was put into hoaxe's position, offered a chance to get, not just power, but revenge on the hive? she would take it, and she would go exactly the way hoaxe did she'd see no problems in having the mentality of "a queen is not meant to serve! a queen is meant to be served!" because all her life, she's been pushed into a role "for the queen" without barely ever seeing her, she's locked behind giant guarded doors after all, plus the whole "obey your mother, mother always knows best" culture would start to ingrain itself as "the queen is absolute", and if she had the opportunity to control the hive more than queenhood ever could provide? she wouldn't hesitate to take it

Blue: and hoaxe? if he had someone to put his trust into, to be honest with and even look up to to a point, someone he could truly confide in and get help in achieving his goals of having a safe, comfortable life? i doubt he would have ended up different to vi in the end of things

Blue: love it when the hero and villain are effectively the same person

Purple: this is So Very Neat and i adore it

Blue: bug fables is a glorious goldmine of "they didn't plan any of this, did they."

Purple: it really do be just gotta. get cohered a bit

Blue: love these bugs. they'd hate being compared to each other so much