#its ALL genuine. their mutual hatred and bitterness is real and genuine. but so is their sudden tenderness after johns ''death''

[twink-with-an-agenda]

"The Lyctor took her silently in his arms: they held each other like children who'd had a nightmare and had woken in a fright. Just as silently, they detached."

[bilbobagginsomebabez]

yeah no i don’t want to come off as a hater, it’s just so fresh.

ignoring the finale, there was 4 seasons of fucking fascinating post-9/11 Stuff* going on. I think it finally had its opportunity to be produced because you suddenly had a culture with a new widespread interest in apocalypse narratives. and this one takes the cake. going from a devastating cylon attack destroying the whole human of human civilization and allowing both groups to truly pursue that genocidal bloodlust to the bitter end and using it to carry characters from mutually literally genocidal hatred to the eventual overwhelming realization that they have to not only let go of their own hatred but group up with their most hated enemy. like I talked a little bit before about the cycles of violence and the increasing need for each other to survive, but it was set up! the lore of the show fucking cool from that end--making the humans and victims of this genocide also the perpetrators of the first one that caused so much destruction over thousands of years. the search for earth not leading them to a new home world and salvation for themselves but the destroyed homeworld of the cylons, still radioactive from their own erased attack thousands of years ago was brilliant!** and doing this believably not just WITH interesting characters but actually THROUGH the characters and fantastic visuals— it’s really fucking hard to do that! I believed that Helo push people to accept cylons and develop a sense of justice and his friends would defend him but not his wife or his choices. and I believed it when he was still always a soldier above all and followed orders he vehemently disagreed with. I believed it when characters changed their minds and when they refused to, like with commander gata. I found it fascinating and real and interesting that most people changed their minds when it was revealed that the cylon was someone they loved and they couldn't help but search for the best in them anyway. fantastic, fascinating storytelling that genuinely and deeply engages with the hatred that consumed america after 9/11.

*as always, 9/11 was bad but destabilizing 3 governments and murdering 11 million people was worse.

**the christianity!mormonism getting tied to the cylons and surprise attackers/post-9/11 islamic terrorists while hellenistic mythology was tied to the attacked/post-9/11 american public did make the prophecy/religion stuff really weird. because the author like. clearly Needed to make the cylons’ One True Christian God Actually Real but polytheism can’t be real. but you also have to be On The Humans Side (on Americas Side) so despite the in-universe Fact that the cylons worship a Real God instead of silly metaphors, you can't really end with the 'American public stand-in' group largely converting to the enemy's religion after inadvertently following the Real wisdom of their elders (final 5 2000 year old cylons) and their prophecies. because of the 9/11 of it all.

everyday I log onto this website and hope that someone will talk to me about battlestar galactica (2003)

[k-s-morgan]

Love your tomarry fics. I also follow your thoughts on Merlin, and I was inspired by your posts to jump on the Hannibal wagon. I liked it, it's weird and beautiful but I am still confused with the characters. Which moment did Will decide to support Hannibal in season 2 is blurry to me, he was playing along nicely I seem to be missing which moment did he honestly like/love Hannibal ! Will seemed to be angry and hating Hannibal is all I got :( Season 3 last scene was the only exception.

Part 2 of the question. I have also huge doubts about several things. Does Hannibal really 'love' Will in any capacity ? If yes then why did he abuse him relentlessly ? Does Will love him - He tries to catch him in s-2 but fails because he becomes disoriented when Abigail shows up. Then tries to kill him and finally gets married, Will seemed to love his wife and child a lot, then suddenly at the end he embraces Hannibal. 

 Final question - minor doubts. What meat did Will bring to Hannibal ? Because Freddie was later not-dead :D ! How did Hannibal not recognise the meat as not-human ? I think it's a plothole. Once I watched the series I ended up shipping Alana with Will, the two kindred souls.

---------------------------

Hello! Thank you, I’m glad you enjoyed my story, and it’s great that you decided to watch this show)) That said, I do think you need to watch it again! It’s a complex one, and many people realize its nuances only after several re-watches. 

Will never hated Hannibal. Even in the first half of S2, when he was feeling betrayed and thought Hannibal doesn’t care about him, he couldn’t bring himself to feel hatred. He says as much to Peter in E8, admitting that he envies him his hate because killing Hannibal would have been much easier if he hated him. Hannibal is the only person who understands Will. You mentioned Alana, but she and Will are absolutely incompatible. Will craves normalcy, but he isn’t a normal person, and his feelings for Alana were only ever superficial, considering how he acts toward her and how he doesn’t give a damn about her at all in S3, easily risking her life. Alana was a socially acceptable potential partner, but she didn’t have what Will needed: darkness, the ability to understand it, and willingness to accept it in Will.

When Will is released from prison, he makes a plan to entrap Hannibal, but he’s drawn to him more and more. He’s genuine in most of their discussions, such as the ones about their loneliness, Will’s love for murder, darkness as a concept, etc. Will doesn’t take chances to arrest Hannibal when he can because he enjoys being with him too much. He set him up to be killed by Mason, but when his death became the real possibility, he changed his mind and saved him. Then he covered for him by lying to Jack - they agreed Will would arrest Hannibal when he tried to kill Mason, but Will did and said nothing. Will fully chose Hannibal in S2 finale when he called him. This is how he explains it later:

Will: I wasn’t decided when I called him. I just called him. I decided when I heard his voice. I told him to leave because I wanted him to run. Because he was my friend... and because I wanted to run away with him.

So, Will didn’t become disoriented after seeing Abigail. He already chose Hannibal and he wanted him to leave. He rushed to his house and took out a gun after hearing Jack is inside - he never pointed it at him. He directly tells Hannibal:

Will: You were supposed to leave! 

Will chose Hannibal but it was too late, and he got his heart broken just like he broke Hannibal’s. He also dreams about murdering Jack with Hannibal as the version of his perfect world. Will has always been a closeted killer, and Hannibal gives him the freedom to be who he is. Will admits it further in S3:

Will: I’ve never known myself as well as I know myself when I’m with him.

In E2 of S3, Will keeps talking to himself about how much he wants to go to Hannibal still, how he shouldn’t have lied to him, and how they should have left together. He forgives him, he appreciates his gift (a Valentine heart), and he’s trying to find him. This episode is a huge love confession from Will to Hannibal. His attitude begins to change only after he meets Chiyoh and Bedelia, thinking he has been replaced and getting bitter and angry again.

I’m curious, in what scenes did you feel like Will loved Molly and Walter? Because his marriage is deliberately shown as weak. He and Molly share about two nice scenes where they are smiling and laughing, but other than that, there is no closeness. Will doesn’t go fishing with them, even though he loves it and dreamed of doing it with Abigail; he doesn’t return Molly’s “I love you”; he doesn’t initiate physical contact with her, which is a contrast to his behavior toward Hannibal, and he leaves her at the first opportunity. We know he never told her the truth about who he is - she easily jokes about him having the criminal mind, having no idea how dark and dangerous this topic is for Will, who delights in murder and who killed, mutilated, and ate people (bringing and cooking the meat of one of them with Hannibal willingly). He reunites with Hannibal at the first chance and he leaves Molly and Walter after the attack, concentrating on his feelings for Hannibal instead. He plots with Francis, who tried to kill Molly and Walter, and leaks information about the transfer to him, setting loose two dangerous killers at once - killers who targeted his family. It’s not something Will cares about, which proves how cold and self-centered he usually is. Molly and Walter come from nowhere (we have no idea how they met, how their relationship developed, etc.) and they disappear when their use runs out. 

Hannibal loves Will with all his heart. He sacrifices his reputation, freedom, and life for him. He didn’t abuse him, although his S1 behavior may indeed be seen as such. From the start, Hannibal’s intention was to help Will Become, accepting his real self. He used his illness in S1 to blur his self-control and make him understand who he is. Starting with S2, when Will’s aware of everything, Hannibal is the one being manipulated. He’s loyal to Will - the only times he hurts him happen after Will hurts him first, like in S2 finale or in E6 of S3. Their relationship is mutually violent. But Hannibal learns from his mistakes sooner. By E7 of S3, he realizes he doesn’t want to live without Will, so he admits Will’s victory over him and gives himself up, hoping that one day, Will is going to choose him, too. He agrees to his TWOTL plan despite knowing it might involve his death, shields Will from the bullet, and allows him to push them down. He stays with him after they survive and they hunt Bedelia together. 

Will brought Hannibal’s Randall’s meat, so it’s not a plot hole. We saw him store his butchered parts in his fridge. 

If you’re interested, you can see more about the evolution of Will’s feelings for Hannibal and Hannibal’s love for Will here https://k-s-morgan.tumblr.com/post/618023666166464512/wills-vs-hannibals-ways-of-expressing-love.

Hope that clears up things a bit!

[bananagator]

On Josuke and Rohan’s Relationship

I love the tension between these two.  One of the things I find interesting, however, is that they both hate each other but still make the choice to risk their lives for each other.  The arc of their relationship is fascinating.  Now obviously Rohan on his part has plenty of reasons to hate Josuke, one being that Josuke hospitalized him for a month.  Except when I rewatched some DiU, I think it’s a little more complicated than that.

But even before that, Rohan was really interested in Josuke.  He spent three whole months not knowing anyone else had powers like he did.  Josuke was one of those people in Koichi’s memories that Rohan found to be inspirational material for his manga.  Rohan was even somewhat impressed that Josuke could withstand his pen attacks in their initial encounter.  It stands to reason that Rohan would resent Josuke for wrecking his house and beating the shit out of him, though.

Except that’s not entirely the case.  After Rohan recovers from his initial shock at being pummeled into his own bookcase and then crushed by said bookcase, how does he react? He wants to know MORE about Josuke.  He wants to know his Backstory.  Then when he hears Koichi tell Okuyasu the story, he’s moved almost to the verge of tears.

Relatable tbh.

He says he’s happy.  I love the slight ambiguity here, too.  This is literally like that ‘they’d punch me and I’d say thanks’ meme.  Because of Josuke he gets to...  experience getting the absolute shit beaten outta him.  The fact that he practically squeals in terror mere moments after showing a warped sense of gratitude for the ‘experience,’ is hysterical. 

writing college essays be like.  ok but honestly this one kinda makes me a little sad because of reasons.  It speaks to how desperately Rohan wanted to be able to create stories that people would read.  He’s afraid of failure.

He’s probably more referring to the experience of getting to learn all those cool things about Stand users and being inspired to write for his manga than getting beaten up and crushed by his own bookcase, but it’s still funny.  It’s also ironic bcuz out of everyone in DiU, Rohan is probably one of the unluckiest dudes I have ever seen.  bruh....  I absolutely love that Rohan is deeply invested emotionally into certain aspects of Josuke’s life, without liking him as a person.  I know ppl have joked that Rohan has probably portrayed Josuke-type characters as villains in his manga, but I firmly believe that, whether or not Rohan would admit it, he’s inspired by Josuke’s life to make compelling stories, as well.

So how do we get to the essential roots of Rohan and Josuke’s mutual hatred? I will grant you, Rohan being hospitalized for a month would have given him time to calm down from his obsessed high and start to resent Josuke for hindering his ability to work on his manga via injury and breaking all his stuff.  The trade-off is that a whole new world of inspiration opens up to him and also inadvertently leads to Rohan developing his Stand’s abilities further (click here for my meta on the growth of Heaven’s Door).  Even though that doesn’t balance out the degree to which he got his ass kicked, I still don’t think the hospitalization is the real reason for their tension, or rather I should say, not all of the reason.

Ultimately, I think that Josuke and Rohan’s personalities simply mix poorly.  Josuke is terrible at telling lies and is prone to feeling immensely guilty when he thinks he’s suspected of wrong-doing.  Rohan is a highly paranoid, distrustful person by nature and hates being humiliated due to his pridefulness (which... reminds of Kira actually, but that’s another subject entirely).  Coupled with the fact that many of Josuke’s ideas tend to go very, very wrong, it’s a recipe for disaster.  This is highlighted in their gambling match.

Rohan can sense Josuke is trying to screw him over, and he fixates on it, to a point that he doesn’t even care about his house burning down in the moment.  Why? Because Rohan’s pride is at stake.  Not only that Josuke heals him even though Rohan was unable to figure out the secret, which damages his pride even further.  It’s only following the events of this that Rohan passive-aggressively tells Josuke he’s upset about his stuff getting destroyed.

This is critical groundwork for the Highway Star incident.  Josuke is burning with guilt at what he did to Rohan.  Josuke is a poor high school student who wishes he had more money, but he certainly didn’t expect or want things to escalate as far as they did.  Rohan resents Josuke for the humiliation.  I think it's worth noting that Rohan says he was holding back anger towards Josuke for Mr. Joestar’s and Koichi’s sake (not that I feel he did a very good job of it, but he did at least try, the implication being that Rohan has started to show more awareness of others’ feelings, even though he still has difficulty dealing with people socially).

What upsets me is that Rohan is very intent on capturing Kira and worries about potential victims, but Josuke doesn’t realize this about Rohan, who does a lot of behind the scenes work.  The last time they really interacted was when Rohan almost killed Josuke’s friends.  Aside from that Josuke sees Rohan being a jerk to some random kid (Janken Boy).  His attempt to invite Rohan to sit at the table with his friends is interesting given that Josuke openly admits to Joseph a little later that he dislikes Rohan.  He’s probably just going through the motions of politeness since he doesn’t look terribly thrilled about asking Rohan to talk with them.  Koichi no doubt told the others everything that happened in the Ghost Alley, but even Koichi is like, ‘Don’t trust him too much, he’s pretty sketchy.’

Rohan was desperately trying to warn Josuke about the illusion in the tunnel.  He deeply cares about what happens to people.  This is evident in Janken Boy, and I think its placement in the story is very important in showing how Rohan’s character has started to really evolve.  I will fight you on this.  Josuke, who has no reason to trust Rohan and is immensely guilt-ridden about cheating and inadvertently leading to... over 7 million yen in damages to the guy’s house, lashes out at Rohan.  There’s mutual distrust going on.

Rohan is angered that a guy who was blatantly humiliating and attempting to rob him would dare to consider him a liar.  It’s understandable but so ironic.  Rohan is actually a pretty honest person.  When it comes to serious situations or his feelings about people, he's almost always upfront to a point of rudeness.  Yet it’s this same abrasive personality that makes him seem so untrustworthy to others in DiU.  Over and over, Rohan tries to help in his own way and warn the others of danger, but he gets shut down.  He still tries anyway. 

When Rohan is struggling against Highway Star, he’s clearly relieved and shocked Josuke came back.  The main difference between this situation and Koichi saving him is that Josuke doesn’t get to see Rohan’s reaction.  What I love about Rohan is that, like Josuke, he is not the type who abandons others, even if he doesn’t know or like them.  You could call it his sense of pride/ego, or a strong-willed conviction, or an incessant need to be an arrogant dick, but the simple fact is that he refuses to betray Josuke and is fully prepared to die fighting alone.  Rohan warns him to stay away, and he’s angry that Josuke fell into the trap because of the stubborn contrariness that Rohan hates so much (I have meta on this, but another time).

Meanwhile this is the first time Josuke has ever witnessed Rohan being a decent human being.  He’s so thrown off that Rohan would choose to sacrifice his life, but he vows to save Rohan no matter what.  And previously, Josuke has almost always referred to Rohan in a rude form of address (not usually to his face directly but I like that this goes both ways), but that changes in this arc. 

The thing that really kills me is, at the end of the day, Josuke genuinely tries to apologize to Rohan.  He’s realized that Rohan is more than an asshole.  He was telling the truth and sacrificed himself to protect Josuke.  Rohan having the social skills of a walnut refuses to let Josuke finish apologizing.  I really want Josuke and Rohan to reconcile, but I can also understand that it will take a LOT more for them to be on good terms.  I wouldn’t want to just hug it out with a guy whose fool-ass tried to rob and humiliate me, especially when you consider Josuke went to such great lengths to cheat too (though I personally feel like his being able to break into Rohan’s house to switch the dice seems more of a convenient plot device but shh). 

I think there’s many reasons why Rohan doesn’t want to hear Josuke’s apology, one being that he doesn’t want to be indebted to Josuke (and he makes it clear he doesn’t consider it as such because he hasn’t forgiven Josuke for all the shitty things he did prior to this incident), because he’s unable to read Josuke’s behavior and has trouble taking kindness at face value, because he’s still bitter that Josuke healed him without his approval from before, etc.  However, I think the fact that Rohan calls Josuke an idiot indicates he does care in his own way.  Josuke’s refusal to listen put his life in danger, too, and Rohan was trying to prevent that because it would’ve meant they’d both get killed.  Rohan does not like Josuke as a person, but he shows concern about him, and the opposite is also true.  Much as they try to avoid dealing with each other, they are forced to cooperate by circumstance, and I like that.