#it's just really important for him - no matter how tptb decided it should end up

[evan-buck]

9-1-1 Evan 'Buck' Buckley | 8x06 Confessions

[nealcassatiel]

Supernatural and Russia and the mess of Television Legal Contracts

One of the most important aspects of a television series’ life cycle is its distribution. It is in the stage of distribution when the production companies/studio recoup the largest amount of costs.

By looking at who distributes the show, as well as which companies stand to gain the most from distribution profits, we can gain greater understanding of the various complex agreements and finances at play.

Viewing Statistics in the USA, Russia, and other International Territories

Let’s take a look at where Supernatural is distributed, and it’s popularity in the countries in which it airs. 

After the US, in the past 30 days, Supernatural’s next biggest market is in Russia. The next is in Brazil. 

This got long - more under the cut (I’ll be talking about cuts shortly)

In Russia, Supernatural has been in the top 0.2% watched shows in Russia (link) . This is also the case in Brazil. 

In 2019, a modest survey was done on urban and rural Russians asking them what foreign television they watch. Supernatural was the 6th most mentioned foreign television show (link).

In 2017, Supernatural was three times more popular in Russia than it was in the US (link - this article has just a whole other host of information about it being popular amongst urban and rural US residents, as well as popular amongst both Republics and Democrats, however i haven’t looked further into that data so not going to discuss it much here)

So selling Supernatural to Russia and airing it in Russia is going to bring in a lot of revenue for The C*W and the production companies. That is a lucrative distribution territory and of a huge amount of importance to the network. Russia will air both new episodes, and reruns. Of course, if Supernatural made a queer love story a central premise, then execs are going to get scared that not only will the finale may not be aired in one of their biggest, if not their biggest market: Russia, but that the broadcasters who distribute the show in Russia might also pull the rest of the show and stop broadcasting reruns too. That’s a shit tonne fo distribution profits gone for The C*W, and who knows, maybe their relationship with Russian broadcasters who air their other shows will be on the rocks. After all, trying to sell gay tv to Russians right now is, sadly, never going to happen. This is not an indictment on the Russian viewers, but me saying that the show won’t be sellable to Russian broadcasters if it is too queer.

A huge huge majority of US Supernatural fans are progressive and wanted the more queer focused and found family ending. But the C*W and Warner believes that there are still enough US fans who don’t want something that progressive to be shown. They also know that one of their biggest markets is Russia, and Dean being shown to be bi will not go down well there. I’m just speculating, but The C*W may have looked at those chunks of audience who give them money and decide that they only care about those profits. 

The frustrating thing however, is that no matter the power of Russian Supernatural audiences, looking at the other progressive countries and the popularity of Supernatural there - these numbers as a collective outshine those of Russia. So maybe Russia isn’t that important. Or maybe all The C*W needed to think was ‘we don’t want to stop profits from our biggest international viewership’ and so they never even went further and thought about the collective viewership of the audiences from progressive countries. As I said at the start, distribution is where the companies who invested into making a show recoup the most costs. All the money that comes from distribution is incredibly important.

DISTRIBUTION AND CO-PRODUCTION AGREEMENTS

The writers, the crew, the actors, don’t really get the distribution profits. They may get small cuts of things or bonuses here and there, but they’re all essentially employed by the production company. It is the production company and studio who has sunken money into making the show who will get a cut of the distribution profits. So the production companies and co-production companies, the creator (maybe still if they had a good agent when they first sold the pitch), the network are all going to be the ones to care about how much a finale will matter to profits from showing reruns in less progressive countries. Dabb is an employee - he personally will be paid a fixed sum which is given to him by the production company. He does not care if SPN can’t be aired in Russia - that has no personal affect on him. He was paid to showrun the series and he’ll get nothing more even if it becomes the most watched anti-gay homophobic celebrated show in Moscow. He has no financial reason to cater to anyone. He’s just an employee. 

But if information like this, the knowledge that for multiple years TPTB have wanted Supernatural to cater to a non-progressive international and national audience for the sake of distribution profits, then the show should have never have taken the narrative to a place whose ending could not be green-lit.

If for the sake of these pofits and other secondary rights, for the sake of appeasing rural/southern USA viewers, and trying to keep an audience for Walker, The C*W derailed the final two episodes, then I still don’t fully understand why the ending was heading towards destiel when all of this distribution finance information has been known for many many years. 

It makes sense why such a terrible finale would happen, but it doesn’t make sense why up until episode 18, the entire narrative of the show was leading somewhere completely different? Why were the writers of SPN heading straight towards one thing, if they knew they always knew that they’d have to have a completely different ending? 

The Right of Final Cut / Final Cut Privilege

The answer may lie in the fact that The C*W wasn’t really paying that much attention to SPN, they couldn’t really see all the subtext, but suddenly the subtext all was going to become text and they were all twiddling their thumbs and looking for something to do during COVID when the industry shut down, so they suddenly got way more involved. 

Let’s quickly clear up who The C*W is and how they relate to SPN as a company. Supernatural lists The C*W as one of it’s distributers, but lists Warner Bros Television as a production company. When SPN started it was made by The WB (which is now The C*W). It’s all under Warner Media anyway, but we can basically say that Warner Bros Television (listed as a co-producer of SPN) is the sam as The C*W who is listed as a distributer of SPN. They’re essentially the same so The C*W is both producing and distributing SPN, as well as owning the format rights to the show - sorry that’s all complicated anyway The C*W are the big dogs who own Supernatural and have done from the beginning back when they were called The WB)

Essentially, The C*W have a co-production and distribution agreement for SPN. The power they have from that first agreement when they bought the show off Kripke is almost certainly still MASSIVE today. They are not only the ultimate distributers, but the ultimate producers with all the agreements and all the rights. 

Anyway, back to that first agreement: This was Kripke’s first big deal, and he almost certainly gave Warner Bros/The C*W a whole host of creative control in exchange for them sinking a shit tonne of money into making the show. Which makes me wonder if The C*W has something in entertainment law called “the right of final cut/final cut privilege”. If a studio or distributer has sunken a heck tonne of costs into making the series and are the ones who most need to recoup the distribution costs, then in their contract they may try to give themselves the ‘final cut privilege’ - essentially, this is the final edit. There’s the Director’s Cut, but then after that there is the Final Cut. The Final Cut is what is broadcast. Nowadays, most series and films don’t allow the directors to have final cut privilege anyway - it’s fairly rare from my understanding (one of my hats is a television legal contracts assistant, and all of these contracts still confuse me even though it’s an element of my job - I’m not trained in this outside of work so i apologise if this isn’t clear). The studio or distributer doesn’t even need to clear their final cut with the writer/director/producer. They can just do it. Cut it up and broadcast it, because they’re allowed to in their contract.

So with the finale episode being so short, a mess of montages, Carry on My Wayward Son versions back to back, a narrative mess, the pacing completely off, some scenes way too short and others way too long - this really could insinuate that the stupid clause of ‘the right of final cut’ was utilised by The C*W and without the need to get the permission or allowance of Dabb or even the other production companies, they edited everything they didn’t like out of the finale, citing their contract and the fact that they’re the ones who need to recoup distribution costs, and they don’t want to piss off large swathes of their national and international audience.

In Conclusion

So positives? Well, now that SPN is done and dusted, if there is a spin-off then this shouldn't affect distribution deals in Russia or Brazil. If whoever buys the format rights for Supernatural, allows The C*W to still sell the old series distribution rights, then market the new season of SPN not as a new season but a spin-off, then this will give them more freedom to not cater to the conservative international and national audiences SPN was beholden to due to distribution profits. What I’m saying is - a spin-off could free itself from catering to anyone who isn’t progressive. The old audiences can carry on showing reruns of SPN and completely ignore the new ‘fake’ gay spin-off. They can say that it’s a different production company, a different network - and therefore not the legitimate show. Great. Free SPN. 

A new format agreement could also mean that the new producers could ensure that not the distributer, but the director, or the new trusted production company themselves gets the Right of Final Cut. If another agreement is made, please please please take that right away from The C*W/Warner. 

The difficulty in getting the SPN rights would be caused by the mess of a Format Agreement to even get those rights... Supernatural is co-produced by Kripke Enterprises, Warner Bros. Television, Supernatural Films, and Wonderland Sound and Vision. I’m assuming Kripke Enterprises and Supernatural Films may be under Warner Media (as Warner Bros and The C*W itself is). If Jensen wanted to produce the new spin-off then his new production company is under WB/Warner Media too... so. Disentangling meddling and shitty Warner Media execs from a spin-off would be difficult because they own everyone. 

All in all, it’s easy to see now with that mess of a finale that this was caused with whoever has “The Right Of Final Cut/Final Cut Privilege’. And I HIGHLY doubt Singer or Dabb or any mere employee on the show has it. It’s more and more obvious to me that this power lies in the hands of The C*W/Warner and they didn’t even try to loop Dabb or the main cast in when making the final edits. I’m sure the C*W started to get involved at episode 19 and in the development stage of episode 20, but i’m certain they had a hand in the disastrous final cut. 

I hope we’re able to pry our beloved show out of the hands of those who don’t care about its narratives, but have more power than anyone to change the show’s narratives. Thanks for coming with me on this essay/me working out this complicated mess. It’s 00:50 and I'm super tired so I hope all this makes sense. Television contracts confuse me and I work with them so i dunno how clear any of this is. 

Anyway - I hope it was totally boring.  

[inacatastrophicmind]

Hi I went through few cons and I actually got my heart broken a little bit. Every one of them had Jensen denying the idea of Destiel or Dean being anything but the American male fantasy.

Vancon 2012 J2 panel he avoids the fan who is screaming Destiel. I understand that because he was going through something Misha shaped during 2012. Destiel was the last thing he wanted in his life then.

The controversial NJCon 2013 where he pretty much rudely avoids the Bi Dean question. I mean come on there were so many ways to back down there but just giving into that crowd like that and shooting down that girl who asked the question? I know she actually explained what happened there but he is saying things to convey he is unhappy where that question is heading. JP who is considered the immature even is considering answering the question the girl is continuously apologising it is a horror show there while Jensen is just being plain rude.

Jib 2014 solo panel where he is asked if Dean will ever get his pie. And he denies Cas ever being there at the end of the line. And ironically at the end, he was only there with all kinds of pie but no Cas. Amazing how life worked out for him.

Jib 2015 solo panel where he again denies both CasDean and Destiel from Fan Fiction episode. JPad was not there and Jensen was in a bad mood so maybe it had something to do with that.

Chicon 2016 he again invalidates Cas when a question is asked about him Cas and Mary.

TorCon 2016 where both Js are denying Cas's importance saying there's no necessity for him.

JaxCon 2017 he pretty much shoots down Destiel by saying Destiel doesn't exist.

In JaxCon 2018 he wrote NO infront of Bi Dean research paper a fan showed him.

Jibcon 2019 he asks audience Where does Destiel exist. but I think he was much like teasing the audience there tbh. No major harm but it still hurts.

I just.. I truly believe he knows what he and Misha were doing in the Destiel implied scenes. And now the cat is pretty much out of the bag. But still Jensen is pretty much staying on his ground and it is nice he is now more open for interpretation but the strength this fandom should have to forgive him for all he did...

I believe in Karma. I think Karma got to Jensen eventually for all hurt he did by those words to the fandom. I don't hate Jensen in fact I really adore the guy. But it doesn't mean I am not upset by his words. How I think Karma worked here is that he never embraced what he was portraying as a character and Karma finally said "Okay Dude enough foreplay.. You want pie okay here's pie and your car now die and be in heaven and your character arc is in garbage but your brother gets to live. There goes your male fantasy.."

I understand if he had internalized sexuality issues of himself that he didn't feel like exposing by talking about Dean and Destiel but still there are much better ways to shoot down fan opinions without being so rude.

In 2014 he pretty much says that at the end of the series Dean might get all kinds of pie with no Castiel and...Geez Is it not what exactly happened? No Cas and Pie on his face. Accidental foreshadowing spoilers..

I think he got Karma for hurting so many fan hearts and denying something he evidently portrayed in his character. At the end he didn't get a happy ending he got robbed by his own show. While the shippers actually got something out of it Thanks to Misha.

I don't need Jensen to embrace Destiel in an open hug because not in any universe that's gonna happen. I actually hoped he would eventually be open to it. He actually might be, considering his reaction to episode 18. But there's no proof actually footage of him saying anything positive about Destiel. It just... is such a bummer.

I know Jensen is hurt for his own reasons by his own show which actually hurt him in ways no fan ever did. I hope he understands how fans feel now being betrayed by a show they love.

May be he had the Karma coming..

In the past, Jensen hasn't been Destiel's biggest fan, and that's something that has always bothered me. Not because I didn't respect that he didn't like Destiel, but because every time Destiel was brought up, he was kind of rude. The same thing happened with anyone mentioned Dean being bi. It sucked and hurt because he could have handled it better. He could have easily said "I don't see Destiel/Dean as bi, but it's okay if you do". It's just that simple.

I don't know why Jensen was so rude about Destiel or bi!Dean. I don't know if it was of something personal or because certain fans were rude to him when they brought up Destiel and bi!Dean, or if he was scared that Dean would change if Destiel happened, because society and media think that anyone who belongs to the LGBTQIA+ community's personality is just their sexuality and gender and nothing else, so maybe Jensen was afraid that Dean would just become a character that was bi and that everything else that Dean was would disappear. Or maybe it had to do with the fact that he grew up in Texas, which isn't the most liberal place. It could be anything.

However, since they started filming s15 and when he found out about Cas' confesion, he has been really supportive about Destiel. He might not be as vocal and supportive as Misha is, but you can see the change. And that's important. Even at a JIBcon, (I can't remember which one), after he haid said something negative about Destiel the previous year, he apologized. He knows how important Destiel is for a lot of us. And he has learnt from his past behavior. Even if he doesn't fully support it, he now knows that it means a lot to a lot of people and he isn't rude about it anymore and he respects it.

Also, I should mention that in most cons, all the panels that involve either Jensen, Misha and/or J*red are moderated, and 90% of them forbid Destiel questions. So I don't know what the cons organizers tell the actors to say when Destiel is brought up, or if anyone from the network forbids them to talk about it, but unfortunately, Destiel has been considered a taboo topic by TPTB, and that might have also affected on the way Jensen reacted any time Destiel or bi!Dean was mentioned. Although I still think he should have handled it better, but at least, he now seems to be on good terms with the topics, and as I mentioned above, that's really important.

As for the Cas thing, about how both Jensen and J*red always joked how he didn't matter, it's a joke that's been going for too long, and that's all it is. They have taken it way too far, especially J*red, because most of the times, when Jensen is talking without J*red by his side, he always brings up Cas and how important he is. Just look at some of the interviews he has done over the years.

With that said, I think you're being mean about the whole karma thing. What the writers did to Dean was just the writers being shitty writers. They wrote a whole season with the only goal of killing Dean. After Dean has finally found the will to live, after he is finally able to live on his own terms, the writers decided that killing him was a good way to end the story. That's not karma; that's bad storytelling.

And just because Jensen didn't handle Destiel or bi!Dean in a good way, it doesn't mean that he deserved to have Dean treated like shit. And I think that what you're suggesting is actually quite mean.

Jensen might have made mistakes in the past regarding Destiel and bi!Dean, but he seems to have grown and realized that he can't be that rude. It's not hard at all to accept that people love Destiel and bi!Dean, even if he doesn't. And he has gotten there. So accept that and don't be mean.

[go-diane-winchester]

Why destiel shippers should not speak about destiel endgame?

@the-winchesters-ruined-my-life asked the following question.

Thank you for the ask.  A short while back, my prim and proper side, would have responded diplomatically that its a merely ship, an artistic platform, and therefore does not warrant any hate from most level headed people.  However, I have to realize that even art activates the tolerance threshold.  I used to read destiel slash out of curiosity.  There are many more like me who dipped their toes in the destiel cesspool, only to recoil in disgust when they realized that it was probably going to give them gangrene.  Destiel was a sweet little ship, once upon a time, until things dramatically changed for the worst.  Most people who ship destiel are extreme by design because that is how the meta writers designed their thinking.  Non heller fans contradict each other.  I don't see that with hellers.  Some upper echelon hellers says something and these fans just accept it without question.  Take for example, the following post, recently penned by @anti-anti-destiel, lamenting the impending end of SPN.

The first flaw, is the OP's name.  They are glitching the tags with a name like this.  Everything and everyone has an anti tag.  What makes destiel so special that it must never have an anti tag?  That is manipulative and delusional because nothing will disappear just because you wished it away.  People that are going to despise destiel are growing, whether OP sticks her head in the stand or not.   

Anyway, here is the post, which I edited where necessary and italicized.  My responses are in bold. 

....Season 15 will be the last, with another 20 episodes.

There has been talk about queerbaiting in the past, and whether or not SPN will go down in history as a show with a slow-burn queer romance, or whether it will be forever known as the most queerbaiting show in existence.

This is why non-destiel fans get infuriated.  If there are any ''good'' destiel fans out there, why don't they tell this entitled princess to stop ruining the reputation of a show that has genuinely made people happy?  SPNFamily is very ironic when you want to tear apart a show that gave made you smile for 14 seasons.  This alone makes me wonder if there are any ''good'' destiel shippers out there.  The other hot topic is that of queer baiting.  Notice how queer baiting is NOT up for debate.  I have seen the master list of ''proof'' that SPN is queer baiting.  The parallels, metaphors and prop analysis are extremely insulting to adult human intellect.  Performing Dean is perhaps the most biphobic concept I have ever come across.  There is a reason these meta writers don't want their head canon's discussed because they know that people with logic with wipe the floor with them.  I can almost picture Jensen bursting into laughter if he ever read that master list.  It is that nonsensical.  The meta writers claim they are being queer baited, and everyone believes it.  Nobody questions the writers.  Why? 

All the cards will be on the table in the writers’ room.

Dabb is destiel friendly.

Bobo is destiel friendly.

Davy is destiel friendly.

Steve is destiel friendly.

Meredith is destiel friendly. 

Buckner and Ross-leming are ???

Singer is ???

When a meta writer writes something like this, how come low level destielers don't ever question her?  Why not ask her:  if Dabb and gang are destiel friendly, then why is it that Cas didn't even get invited to 300th episode family dinner party?  They practically forgot about him.  BuckLeming are NOT destiel friendly, because Leming [along with Misha] claimed that an episode with a turning point was coming up.  Turns out there was no turning point.  Leming and Misha were just making a mockery out of the destiel fans.  Why is it that Leming was called out for that lie and NOT Misha? 

And why is it that the most important people in this equation are always left out?  Both Jensen and Jared have said time and again, that destiel is not part of SPN canon.  How come they get left out?  Do you think their opinion doesn't matter?  And if it doesn't, then why is that?  I would really like to know. 

Other numerous cast and crew are destiel friendly. And before someone starts, regardless of previous statements, Jensen is more friendly to the idea than you may think.

Why don't any of the destielers ask this meta writer HOW she knows that Jensen is friendly to destiel?  One fool told me that Jensen told her during a photo op that he was OK with destiel.  But yet he says on stage that destiel doesn't exist.  Now, why would he do that?  What makes these idiots think that Jensen is two-faced or spineless.  This meta writer said it, and everyone believed it.  Not a single person decided to cross-examine her regarding her claims.  Jensen doesn't like destiel.  He destroyed the only panel he shares with Misha.  I think getting death threats from hellers did it.  I don't blame him. 

Our main barrier is convincing Pedowitz and the Network Powers that be that it should happen.  Fandom has campaigned, tulpa’d, prayed, begged, etc. We will know by May, 2020, what the decision will be.

So she wants to rally a bunch of delinquents to annoy and aggravate TPTB.  And what fandom is she talking about.  There are many fans who HATE destiel, because of Jensen's death threats, as well as arson, kidnapping and vandalism threats.  Ordinary fans of SPN are fed up of destiel meta writers speaking up for every one of us.  The destiel fans are only a subsection of the overall fan base.  We would prefer if they didn't speak for us all.  Pedowitz has already acknowledged only J2 as the leads and TPTB has told them that the show will go for as long as they want.  So TPTB are acknowledging the leads opinions.  Neither of the actors are going to say yes to destiel. 

We have seen the hints in Dabb’s era, where it could go. He is ON BOARD, people. Whether you want to believe it or not. It’s so close to being fully textual canon. 

What did she see in the Dabb era?  Cas admiring Dean's looks?  No, he admired Sam's looks.  Dean telling Cas he loved him?  No, he said that to Sam.  Dabb is giving every other pairing its day in the sun, but not destiel.  Why is that?  I think it has something to do with the reputation destroying queer baiting accusation.  This person is fooling you in order to stay relevant.  I can tell you now, there are personal stakes involved in shipping.  In order to stay popular and relevant, meta writers will spin mile long yarns.  Meta writers are like a step up from a slash fic writer.  In a weird way, they are revered without any merit or qualification.  That is how gullible the destiel fan base is.  They never probe a claim.  And they never just enjoy their ship.  Everything has to be about canon destiel, ship wars [their latest victim is sastiel] and they never acknowledge criminal threats.  Being loyal to them means that you are popular with the bad crowd.  Let that sink in. 

So while some may be preparing for the eventual let-down, it is completely acceptable to keep the faith. If it doesn’t happen, it won’t be the fault of writers, cast, or crew.

Oh, no it will be the fault of the meta writers, like this joker, and Misha Collins.  Misha has actively queer baited his fans for ten years.  Its funny how Jensen is the bad guy for saying that destiel doesn't exist, but Misha is such a kidder if he says anything destiel and even cockles friendly.  Misha Collins is the only person on the cast, crew and writers who actively and vocally pushed destiel consistently for ten years.  So much so that he ignored sastiel.  He changed that at Nashcon for reasons unknown.  If you want to lash out at anyone for destiel not being canon, please go ahead and lash out at Misha.  The only one who gave you any hope was Misha. 

In conclusion:  I have only met one destiel shipper [receipt on my blog], who acknowledged that destiel shippers were becoming ghastly and that Misha was egging on the troublemakers.  She admitted that she didn't approve of his behavior.  Other than her, I have not come across another.  Other than this one person, nobody else deserves my empathy.  When SPN ends without destiel being canon, prepare for the hellers being mocked by all and sundry, due to all the many enemies they earned for the threats, attacks on J2 and the vandalism.  No one will feel sorry for them, because they ruined this fandom.  Remember, Destiel is not a religion.  Loving and believing it is not a prerequisite for being an SPN fan. 

Excuse the typos. 

[emarasmoak]

Karamel after 3x07:

It’s not what it seems to be

I’m with @hillshollow and I think that not everything in Supergirl 3x07 about Mon-El and Imra is what it seems to be. Let’s examine a few facts that I think show that something weird is going on.

1. The Legion of Superheroes has travelled to the 21st century but they are from the 31st. And there is a rule about time travel in the Flarrowverse: you shouldn’t change the timeline or there will be consequences. But if they have come to the present they must want to change something. And they brought a person (Mon-El) that can impact significantly the timeline because of Karamel’s love for each other. They must have a good reason to bring him. I don’t know, maybe precisely their love for each other?

2. The dream in 3x01 was real. He had the beard and Kara had never seen him with it before. And he had the necklace that he still wears. The repeated dreams are real and the fact that Saturn is seen in the sky means that Imra (who is from Titan, Saturn’s moon) is keeping them connected. And Saturn Girl probably knows what happens on their dreams (meaning that she knows that they still love each other).

3. This means that Mon-El’s mind was really connected to Kara’s. And you cannot lie when you connect minds. And what happens there? Mon-El goes to Kara, touches her, looks at her eyes with love, kisses her, embraces her. It looks like a wedding. That is what both of them want to happen. And then Kara sees Alura. That is not a coincidence. There is something important about Alura that Kara will need to find out. Probably related with Reign as she was created by Kryptonians (maybe Zor-El himself did it using Alura’s DNA).

4. Imra’s psychic power is strong enough to keep an eye on Kara, but she probably only can do it while in hypersleep if she uses a mind that has his own personal connection to her (Mon-El) and an object that has a personal significance to Karamel (the necklace).

5. Why would Imra keep Mon-El’s mind connected to Kara’s? Mon-El mentioned to Winn that he needed to go back to the spaceship to avoid people and specifically Kara to get hurt. And he admitted to her later in the balcony that he was keeping information from them to protect her (“I should have known better. You never needed my protection”).

6. Also how convenient that after 12000 years underwater his mind was connected to hers just in time to save Kara’s life when she was drowning (episode 3x01). Yeah, the connection was real and it had the purpose of protecting Kara.

7. All of this points to the fact that the Legion’s mission seems to be protecting Kara (Imra definitely knew about Supergirl) and probably other people.

8. So apparently Mon-El is married to someone else but kept the necklace with him and is quite protective of it. That’s is a lot of attachment. I think that this means that he loves her but maybe he also needs it in case that the mental connection to her is needed again in the future so they can protect her. Or maybe he needs it to survive the angst lol (btw, same, Mon-El).

9. When Melissa and the cast and the producers have spoken about season 3 and Mon-El and his absence, the words that use is “mystery” and “not what you expect”. Not “heartbreaking” or something like that. I think that there is a LOT more about him and the Legion’s plan that what it seems. They specifically said that it’s one of the big mysteries of the season.

10. Do you know how a magician perform their tricks? They need a distraction. Something interesting and shiny so you look at it and don’t notice what they are doing. I think that the shiny object here is this ‘marriage’. If Mon-El were single Kara and him would 'reconnect’ immediately and she would want to know everything about him. With a 'wife’ she doesn’t have a right to know. And probably it will make her stay apart from him because it hurts. Also it gives Mon-El and Imra privacy to keep on working on their plans. There is something that they don’t want Kara to know so they can protect her/ the world. Btw, they are using the shiny object with us, the viewers, too, to keep us distracted from the real plan.

11. In the episode 2x07 promo the slogan was “Dreams come true when you believe”. Kara mentioned again her dreams during 3x07. All she wanted is him. Be with him, see him, touch him. She didn’t get everything she wanted. But TPTB are telling us that she will.

So this is my speculation: the marriage is a cover for the Legion’s plans. It is not real. I think that either faking a marriage was the Legion’s plan from the beginning or Saturn Girl decided to scramble/ control Mon-El’s mind when she realised (thanks to their mind connection) that they would be rescued by Supergirl. Possibly she won’t behave 'as a wife’ because thanks to their psychic connection she knows about his feelings/ she is married to Lighting Lad. But she will ensure that Mon-El doesn’t tell Kara the truth.

Another reason for Saturn Girl to scramble Mon-El’s memories/ control his mind is that they need to protect Kara now but the Legion knows that in the future Supergirl has to sacrifice herself and 'die’ (temporarily, of course) to defeat Reign. And the Legion is well aware that Mon-El would do whatever it takes to keep Kara safe. So either they are controlling him or he doesn’t know about her sacrifice.

Good luck Imra while trying to stop Mon-El’s making hearteyes every time he is next to Kara. You couldn’t stop him telling her that no matter what century or universe or world he is living in, he would never forget her.

Specially try to stop him showing his love for her when Brainiac 5 starts behaving as a romantic suitor to her and jealousy and desperation mess with his emotions.

Because another thing that Melissa, the producers and even K*tie have made very clear is that Mon-El is the love of Kara’s life. And there are too many things in the writing of season 3 indicating that they love each other: dreams, necklace, the way they look at each other. Do you think that it’s a coincidence that even James said in this episode that Kara never was happier than when she was with Mon-El and that he would never do anything to hurt her? Nothing that ends up in the episode and the promos and the interviews is a coincidence.

If the marriage is real then Imra will break up with him because Karamel loves each other or because her lost first husband and true love Lighting Lad is found alive.

My money is on Kara and Mon-El getting back together in episode 20.

Just in time for Kara’s 'death’ in the finale to break our hearts again and make Mon-El’s life even more tragic.

Is there anything good about this? The CW always give their endgame couples triangles. Once they get back together their love will be stronger than ever and absolutely EPIC.

Guys, we can survive a few episodes of delicious angst, stolen glances and jealousy from both of them.

Karamel is still endgame. 100% certainty.

Just look at the way they look at each other.

[blue-mint-winter]

Star Wars doesn’t learn from the past mistakes: LOTF and Sequel Trilogy

I already talked about how The Last Jedi is the opposite extreme of Legacy of the Force book series, now belonging to the non-canon Legends. There is a similarity in premise of both of them - set about 30 years after OT, a son of Han and Leia fashions himself after Vader and kills a family member to complete his turn to the Dark Side. This is a very general resemblance and the details of the circumstances in both stories are vastly different, from the villain’s motivation to the series attitude towards Jedi. To me however, it’s absolutely startling how sequel trilogy makes the same mistakes that LOTF made.

1. Round Robin

Both sequel trilogy and LOTF are passed from author to author. In LOTF there was an attempt at a general outline agreed between the writers, while Sequels don’t even have that, but in both cases this form of storytelling leads to big inconsistencies in the works, especially in characterization. TLJ doesn’t feel as much of a sequel to TFA as its own movie. Rian Johnson admitted there was no agreed plot and that he wrote his own screenplay before he even saw TFA. In LOTF’s case may I remind you all Karen “never read a Star Wars book that she didn’t write” Traviss and Troy “forced prequelization which makes no sense in 30 ABY and total disregard of EU continuity” Denning? Every author is pushing their own vision without much care to making the whole a cohesive story.

2. Unlimited Power

The authors in both got handed a lot of “creative liberty”. Rian Johnson said how surprised he was at his freedom to do whatever he wanted. Even if he faced opposition about some of his choices he could safely disregard it. The Story Group which was supposed to make sure the canon is unified and everything fits together completely dropped the ball. With LOTF, it was basically a Troy Denning show with his vision being the deciding factor, further reinforced by the fact that he always got to write the third, ending book in every cycle of the nine-book series. Many times I wondered if anyone was reading these books before allowing them to be published. Anyway, in both cases it looks like TPTB just told the authors: “make up some shit, I don’t care, you can go nuts”. And they did.

3. Plot over character

I mentioned inconsistency in characterization, right? So in TLJ it’s the most evident, because it looks like all the characters took a stupid pill so that the contrived plot could even take place. There’s nothing organic about their behaviour, they just acted as they needed for the plot to happen. And this is the exact same thing that happened ALL the time in LOTF, constantly. Jacen’s turn to the Dark Side which wouldn’t have happened if his character arc from NJO wasn’t conveniently forgotten and Mara’s actions leading to her death are the prime examples.

4. Characters as mouthpieces of the authors

One of the greatest sins is when you know the character wouldn’t say something, because it doesn’t suit their personality or their knowledge. Instead they act as the author’s mouthpieces, spouting the author��s views. Karen Traviss did that regularly, making the characters worship Mandalorians or say anti-Jedi propaganda. Troy Denning liberally used Luke, Han or Leia to condemn “Jacen”, also his pet character Saba was his mouthpiece. In TLJ, it’s clear that when Kylo tells Rey “you’re nothing, what did you think? that your parents were important? They were just some random drunks”, he’s not really speaking to Rey who never said she thought that her parents were important. Kylo was obviously Rian Johnson’s avatar speaking straight to the audience, mocking them for having fallen for the “Rey parentage theories” trap. Many times when Luke Skywalker opened his mouth to mock the Jedi, his past, being a hero and everything that was ever good in Star Wars, it didn’t feel like something the real Luke would ever say. That was Rian Johnson speaking through him.

5. Destruction of the old without giving anything new in return

In both cases, there’s a deliberate cannibalization of what had been built up in previous works without offering anything new in return. LOTF destroyed the EU established characters like Jacen and Mara, among others, to prop up Big Three, so they could stay main characters forever. Even the covers showed them much younger looking than they should have been at this point in their lives. Unfortunately, the values and core messages of OT were also lost to this destruction. In Sequels, we have right off the bat the denial of the final OT victory with the return of Empire as the First Order. The New Republic we’ve never ever seen is destroyed and the characters of Big Three are regressed, ignoring their character arcs from OT. This trend was continued in TLJ with its nihilistic outlook that nothing matters, for example Jedi training doesn’t matter because Rey can do anything without it anyway. Established rules of the universe don’t matter, which invalidates all the continuity, because if ghost Yoda can shoot lightning why didn’t he do that to Palpatine before? Both LOTF and Sequels really love to bring back those old characters and just kill them - see Ackbar or Coruscant World Brain (dhuryam), Han and Lumiya. Instead of building the new, the series are more concerned with bringing back the old so they can destroy it. And it’s not good and leads nowhere.

[randosmstuff]

An unpopular opinion...

So, I finally mustered up the courage to watch Still Star-Crossed finale. I have to say that it was a much, much better put together episode. The background song for the Rosvolio kiss was on point (FINALLY). If I am not mistaken, the song they used for the Rosvolio kiss is a variation of the instrumental song from Baz Lhurmann’s Romeo and Juliet (1996); I might be wrong, though.

Now, let’s get to the point of this post.

Well, I decided to be completely honest with all of you. I want you to know that I am looking at the “Still Star-crossed Project” not as a fan of the show – which I am – but I am trying to look at it with critical eyes. No bias or whatsoever.

 I have to warn you. This is going to be a long post and a lot of what’s in here is most definitely going to “upset” a lot of people. But, please, don’t be mad at me just yet. Try to put your feelings towards the project aside and just read what I have to say and then, if you still think I am wrong, just say it so.

 With that being said…

I completely understand why Still Star-crossed was canceled. Actually, in my opinion, it shouldn’t even have been aired in the first place.  I say this because there were so many mistakes, TOO MANY, actually.

The writing was all over the place, the editing, the transition between scenes, the music, the understanding of the characters, the network, the time slot it was given…

 So basically everything?

 No, not everything. Definitely, not everything.

 The cast is amazing.

The changes they made with some of the characters were really good and intriguing. Princess Isabella, Lord Montague, Lady Helena, Tessa Montague, Lord Capulet… I would love to see their stories unravel.

I don’t know if you understand what I’m saying so I’ll try to elaborate a bit more. 

This kind of story is not supposed to go on for seasons and seasons. It requires a beginning and an end. It was meant to be a limited series all along. 

I’m not sure if it was the writing that sunk the project or if it was the overall misunderstanding of the project in and of itself.

I think that they were trying to make a political statement… not really political, maybe a social statement or a race statement or an equality statement? I don’t know… 

It seems to me that they were trying to create something so bold and ambitious that they somehow forgot what the story was really about and how this kind of story really appeals to the audience. 

I don’t think Still Star-Crossed sunk because of the color blind casting or lack of promotion (I believe the lack of promotion was an effect, actually, not a cause). Still Star-Crossed didn’t work because it failed to connect with the audience. And when I say “audience” I don’t mean “us”.

Everything that was cut, everything that was left unsaid and unexplained… 

I know, they felt like they didn’t have to. But unfortunately we still live in a world where we need to explain why some family members are from one race and some are from another. This caused confusion in so many viewers (racists or not), just overall confusion. People wanted a simple and clean explanation. Nothing a flashback scene couldn’t handle.

Another issue that I noticed is that even though the narrative tried to imply it otherwise, the characters were emotionally distant. Again, not the actors fault. They did an amazing job with what they were given. There was only so much they could do… I am blaming the writers and the directors for this. Like I said before, they didn’t quite understand the characters. 

Another mistake: they changed Shakespeare. You can play with Shakespeare but you can not change it. Changing Romeo and Juliet’s story was a bad call. Specially because it was supposed to be a sequel. Never mentioning, not even once, that Romeo was in love with Rosaline first? How come? This very fact should be a catalyst between Rosaline and Benvolio and yet it was erased completely. With what puporse? I don’t know. Hide from Verona that Romeo and Juliet were in love? Not even her parents seemed to know those two married in secret. Or did I miss something? (Maybe I did). 

Now, a very, very delicate matter…The unbalanced relationship between the leads. 

Benvolio and Rosaline were not equals, they did not bring out the best and the worst in each other, at least, not how they were supposed to. 

They portraited Benvolio as a lost soul, a lone and misundertood character and I actually liked what they were trying to do with him but they also made him weak. He was supposed to be the hero of the story. The martyr. He was supposed to be strong and witted, like Rosaline implied herself but it was rather talked about than shown. She was always the one supplying all the answers. So many things came from Benvolio - bookBenvolio - that they shifted and had them come from Rosaline instead.  

Rosaline was super super strong and independent (the political, social, race, equality thing I mentioned before?). I was really annoyed at the fact that Rosaline always semeed so sure of herself. How she almost never faltered. I still can’t get over the fact that she seemed more annoyed than surprised or shaken by Escalus when she first tried to talk to him about Benvolio’s innocence and he played it out like she was doing it because Benvolio was her fiancé when he knew the truth. That was supposed to be a key moment. She was supposed to see him in a different light. It was supposed to be a grave moment but they played it out like a mockery (the music helped with the mockery tone as well). And Rosaline never really shown vulnerability. Even when she delivered that emotional speech about her parents’ death, she was more proud and angry than actually vulnerable. And that is where Benvolio was supposed to come in. 

Benvolio was supposed to make her vulnerable. He was supposed to make her falter. He was supposed to tear down her walls without asking permission. He was supposed to make her question herself. What he made her feel was supposed to be so strong and unexpected that even Livia would slip her mind. Her feelings for him was supposed to be so strong that she would rather die with him than let him be killed. And we didn’t get to see that. Not really. 

The balcony scene was good, it was great but I was expecting something breathtaking. They should have made him climb the balcony… Invade her personal space. In my opinion that scene was supposed to be powerful, emotional and sensual. What I mean is… The balcony scene is the scene were Benvolio was supposed to break her and at the same time expose himself completely (which he did) but we needed (or I needed) a physical proximity, faces inches apart, uneven breath takes, hands accidentally touching… Because that was supposed to be when they would feel the attraction awake something inside them for the first time. They were supposed to see each other as man and woman, not as Capulet and Montague. There’s a line from the book that explains it so well. “Had Romeo’s eyes ever yearned as Benvolio’s did now?” Remember, in the book, Benvolio was cupping her face (physical proximity, anyone?). 

Anyway, I could go on and on about every scene between our leads, but I wouldn’t dare to go deep about the other characters because I didn’t quite grasp them or actually care for them? Paris, for example. Why he was so twisted? Was it because of his father? Was he being manipulated? And Lady Capulet? They made her so confused that I didn’t know if she was evil or just grieving. Lord Montague interested me the most. I think there was more to him and they failed to show us. And Tessa Montague? That woman wanted power. I can’t shake the feeling she had somehting to do with the attack. Wouldn’t that be great? But they needed to show more of her. And Princess Isabella? What about our weak Prince? 

And the music? The sound effects are there to help us feel, to help us connect with the story. To help with the dynamic. But that was not what happened. 

The pace of story? It was all over the place. It was rushed and not dynamic at all. I understand they had to cut a lot of scenes but a fast paced story doesn’t always mean a dynamic one.

And what about the promos? The very first promo we saw made us believe the epic love story was between our beautiful brown leads. Benvolio was barely in the promos. They were misleading the audience and it backfired. I can’t stop thinking of a promo with a few Romeo and Juliet lines and images of Rosvolio. “My only love sprung from my only hate” “You only hate for my name” “And you hate me for mine”. Can you imagine the appeal it would have had?

So many details they missed. I know… The project was too ambitious. It got out of hand. It became too expansive. They should have planned better, then. They should have fixed the mistakes and not ignored them, knowing that in doing it so, the show would be doomed. 

I should stop here. There’s so much more I want to say. 

Please, don’t get me wrong. I still love the show. I love it, not because we have a black female lead in a period drama or because the cast was so diverse. Those were a plus, the icing on the cake. I love the show because of the story. The potential was, is enormous. And I am mad because they mistreated it. 

My intention with this post was to show they could have made different choices. They should have targeted the right demographic. The direction of the show could have been different but for that the story needed to be more important than whatever message they were trying to pull through. And maybe, even still achieve both. 

In other words, it was not the story itself, it was not the diverse cast, it was poor and careless execution.

I’m sorry, if you don’t agree with me. I still believe in the show. I still want more. Rosvolio is still my OTP. The chemistry between Lashana and Wade is too much to be wasted. And I know for a fact they can save the show and profit from it. They only need to make the right choices and changes. 

I truly hope TPTB will give Still Star-Crossed another chance. 

*By the way, I’m black. Just so you know…

[woodface]

Supergirl S2: United we stand, divided we fall (aka Strong Together)

The past few days I've heard several people tell me that they have or are considering to stop watching Supergirl and just enjoying the gifsets that tumblr throws at them. I can't say I'm surprised, but it does sadden me at how much the show has changed. It's a shame because I know people still enjoy the characters and (most of) their relationships. I think we all know why, but it's Sunday and if you know me, I tend to ramble on Sunday. I've been meaning to give a review of the first half of the second season and now seems as good a time as any.

Now, Supergirl has been all but a perfect show. Season 1 had its flaws: the writing was wonky in places, throwing characterisation overboard to fit the plot and the pacing of the season was terrible. There was something there, however, that had many of us turning in. (More than an amazing cast.) Supergirl was a story of hope. It was a story centred around the women in the show and their journey of becoming heroes. It was a story about found family and how after losing everything, it is still possible to heal when you open your heart for the people around you. At the heart of the show were Kara, Alex and J'onn. The three people who formed the core of the show and who despite the conflict thrown at them, were always there for each other. Stronger together.

When the show changed channels, we all saw the writings on the walls. We all held our breaths as marketing didn't seem to realise what it was that made people tune in. While the second season started a little shakily, by the third episode I was appeased. The show was still there, the Danvers sisters were fighting side by side, still being each other's back up and then… 

I miss the old days where ships were a thing that happened in the background. When subtext was what had us rooted to our screens, or what we could easily ignore when we aren't interested. Romance has been the bane of this season. But Jara, I hear you say, romance was present even in season one. You're right, and it was a tad embarrassing how many men the show threw at Kara, but it also always went back to the heart of the show. Take the finale. James and Kara get their screen time, but when the action is going, when the chips were down, it was the found family that ran through everything. The show told us how much Kara cared about everyone in her own unique way. It was J'onn who walked out with Kara to defend this earth that had become his new home. It was Kara who struggled to say goodbye to Alex, and Alex who refused to give her up. Where movies and other shows would have focussed on the romance, this show put family at its heart. Romance was secondary. Kara was learning to become Kara Zor-El before anything else. Being a girlfriend was second or third. 

Much has changed since then, and nothing was more painful to me than seeing the last episode and having Kara say she always has to fight alone. She's almost desperate to have Mon-El become a superhero was so she would have someone with powers fighting at her side, conveniently forgetting that J'onn had always been there, that Alex will fly into space or jump to an alien planet to get her back. In that one sentence, the show summarised exactly what has been wrong with its second season: romance is no longer second place. It has become first place and found family is taking a backseat to everything else. 

It took them ten episodes to give us a decent moment between Kara, Alex and J'onn. You could argue that this is natural, that conflict keeps things interesting and we'll get there in the end. I have no doubt that we'll see glimpses of our found alien family, but this used to be the glue that held everything together. Stronger together has been hollowed out as Kara, Alex and J'onn are isolated in their own stories and their lines seldom cross. 

The Danvers sisters rarely get moments together, and when they do, it's generally to talk about the romance. Alex is no longer Kara's mentor. They don't hit the training mats anymore, and while they're still supportive and the actors make certain that we see their bond, the show is no longer putting it central to its story telling. 

Kara has become isolated, her actions more and more fuelled by protecting Mon-El and getting him to become the hero she thinks he should be. While this could be an interesting take, after all, it might be evidence of Kara struggling to go back to not having Clark there, this is not what it's about. It's not Kara's struggle, but it is Mon-El's. That in itself wouldn't be so bad if only Kara did have her own storyline, but she doesn't. We don't see Kara growing as a superhero, she's trampling in place and getting isolated as the show puts her in function of Mon-El. Meanwhile James is learning to be a superhero as well, which in a way removes how Winn and James would be what reminded Kara what it was like to be human. 

Now, CatCo has always grated on me so I admit that I was glad to hear Cat Grant was gone. I was hoping her removal would mean that the show would have an easier time to balance out Kara's plot. The division between the DEO and CatCo was always superficial to me and diluted storylines where it shouldn't have. Episode 3 to me is the best example at how well the lesser attention to CatCo works. Sadly, TPTB seem to enjoy juggling too many storylines at once and we're still getting too much plot crammed into one. I keep being reminded of @racethewind10's mantra: this show needs to pick character over plot. My hope was that less CatCo would help with this, but so many new characters have been added, each with their own separate storyline that it hasn't happened. Character moments are so rushed and hamfisted in its delivery, it's almost painful to watch. 

While the plot was suffering in season 1 as well, we got some amazing character moments. I'm thinking of Kara facing the robber without her powers, Alex screaming and begging at Kara to come back to her, Alex and Kara supporting J'onn as his past comes back to haunt him. There were so many strong moments that were truly moving, but season two has had very little… The few we did have were tied to Alex and her journey of self-discovery. They were delivered between Kara and Alex. 

The difference between how Kara and James were treated versus how Kara and Mon-El is treated is huge, where James was always a player in Kara's story, this isn't the case now. Never mind how the change in romance was handled. I actually could completely understand when Kara broke up with James. Her realisation that she needed to find herself first fitted well. I bought it and could actually applaud it. However, that character moment (one of the last Kara was allowed) was completely retconned when TPTB decided to throw Kara at the next available guy that crossed her path. 

How can we believe that after barely any time between her breakup, Kara who had no other character development whatsoever, can suddenly come back and be interested in Mon-El. Such is life? Perhaps, sometimes loves hits us at the most awkward moments, but the way Kara has been treating him like a little brother (or a replacement for Kal-El) to suddenly this arc where Kara is only fighting for him and can only think of Mon-El as her backup when the going gets tough… It comes out of nowhere and is completely out of character for the girl who would always turn to her found family and would live by the creed of Stronger Together. 

It's true that Kara has been isolated, however. J'onn is a bit in a world of his own and Alex has her own romance story that has been monopolising her time, and here lies the rub. I don't want to make light of the importance of Alex's character development (at least she has some). Representation matters and the message the show is sending with Alex is powerful and so much needed. I want to look beyond this for a moment, however, because this has been another key part of how the show has changed. 

Alex's romance is not a natural development within the show. We all knew Alex was gay without needing to be told, but the show runners decided to treat this as a completely new discovery. That in itself should not be a problem, but they brought in a completely new character who has no other purpose to fill than to be Alex's love interest. As a series regular, this is problematic because Maggie had no natural place within the storyline. She's a cop and has no ties to anyone else. To make this work, TPTB changed the universe of our show (I'm sure there's more it than that, but it does seem to be a part of it). Maggie knows about aliens, has been friendly towards them all her life and has a job at the NCPD handling said aliens. That's the common ground the worked into the show to have Maggie and Alex meet. 

However, in order for them to continue meeting, they had to come up with ways to have Maggie show up. So what happened is that Alex and Maggie got their own plot, separate from everyone else's. Kara would get drawn in occasionally (because you really can't separate those two completely), but for the most part, Maggie's only point of contact with anyone else is Alex. Furthermore, to have an excuse to have Maggie around, the role of the DEO has been lessened and with it, J'onn's role as well. Now imagine if the show had used Lucy or Vasquez and given a more natural progression for Alex's self-discovery, where the romance would fit right into the main plot and not water down the importance of the DEO. 

Instead Alex gets her own storylines while Kara and the others have their own. While I love seeing a different side to Alex, it means that she was effectively replaced in the main Kara storyline by either Winn (when it involves science) or James and Mon-El when it comes to fighting scenes. Alex's relationship with J'onn got watered down as she no longer was there for much of the big plots, and Alex no longer is Kara's main backup. Yes, there's been exceptions, but this is a trend where the men replace Alex as our kicking ass human hero. 

After all, James is now the human who gets to beat up bad guys and wants to make the world a better place. M'gann and Kara have had a stronger bond with J'onn than Alex does. Danvers sister moments are replaced by Alex hanging out with Maggie. While this might balance out as Alex's sexuality becomes a simple fact rather than a huge revelation, I'm not confident that we're going to return there. After all, Mon-El has been slowly taking over Alex's role when it comes to Kara. Alex was always the one with one foot in reality, evening Kara's goodness and innocence out. (Remember her threatening Lord.) Slowly the show has been pushing Mon-El to take that position because Alex is too tied up in being in love. 

Don't get me wrong, I love seeing Alex happy. I love that we got such a positive storyline on television. I love the moments when Kara gets to be supportive of Alex. I want Alex to actually think of herself for once, but that does not negate the fact that it's another part that has the glue of our show crumbling down. 

Alex's romance story has effectively removed her from the main plot where she used to be at the centre with Kara. Do you remember how many times they'd end up fighting and checking in at the middle of the fight to make sure the other is okay? We've had so little of these moments because Alex basically rarely gets to be there anymore as the side characters take up her space. 

The show has screwed itself over by bringing in too many new characters and wanting to tell too many stories at once (the latter is an old issue that's gotten worse). They've separated the main three characters from each other and have removed what was the heart of the show. It's still there, but less so and the moments that we should see are rushed or simply don't happen because a romance scene gets precedence over them now. 

Supergirl is simply not the same show anymore. Kara was a different superhero. Not only because she's a woman, but because she knew she shouldn't do this alone. Because she had her friends around her, her found family, which kept her going and saw her through. She was working through so much pain and suffering, but she managed to hold on to her kindness. 

Supergirl was a show about Kara, but they're trying to turn it into an ensemble show where the female heroes are defined by their romance stories and the men learn how to be heroes. That's not the show I signed up for. That's not the show I fell in love with. I am disappointed and saddened any time I see those pictures of all those little girls excited to meet Melissa Benoist, to meet Supergirl. I am saddened because they deserve better and so do we.